BT MS6 - Go GTX30 OR GTX35

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Where are you ordering the Racebuilt divided manifold from? Details? Zigatapatalka

Originally Posted by Tabasco69 Curious what is wrong the the ts steedpseed manifold.....why are you not going to use it in your build, what makes it wrong for your build if you are using a ts tc?

To answer both your questions. Racebuilt Fabrication is producing this particular manifold for me, and to whom else may desire it. I talked to driver311 and he received the first batch of the Manifolds with a different design than the one I've ordered. None-the-less he said the design was awesome and his friend yeilded a lot of power from it, forgot the particulars. So I went forward with purchasing one as well.

-Steedspeed makes a great product it just won't work with my setup. I wanted to maintain bottom (stock) mounting location because I'm not trying to do the top mount turbo setup. I'm trying to maintain a stock appearing engine bay, and they only offer Divided manifolds in their top mount designs. Also Racebuilt makes tubular manifolds, which are usually known to flow even better.

MY ORDER:
Racebuilt Fabrication T3 Twinscroll (Divided) SS Tubular 44MM TIAL W/G Flanged Un-Equal Length Manifold (To maintain MZR Exhaust sound that I love) - Getting it Ceramic Coated Black Locally, upon receiving it as well.

Jarrett at RaceBuilt is nothing short of a pleasure to work with, he has no objection of taking custom orders like my own and his prices are VERY competitive. He's getting this manifold designed from scratch and in my hands in 3 weeks or less! Give him a call, tell him I sent you. He'll take great care of you. Here's his number 321-578-7888

~JaKe

[Nataphen]

Will he build a tubular top mount TS? You can PM if you'd rather do that.

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by Nataphen Will he build a tubular top mount TS? You can PM if you'd rather do that.

PM'd

[RaceBuilt]

WWPearlMS6. I did say it might take a bit longer to produce than 3 weeks, since it will be the first design. And we will do any custom manifold for any platform and setup.

[Ziggo]

Consider me very interested in the results. If you want to really get crazy, a V-band downpipe and dump tubes would make the hattrick.

[Tabasco69]

angry bees more better

[bewsted]

Originally Posted by Tabasco69 3071r on a oe car, in a perfect world maybe, but it would make too much sense. IMO the worst thing about a stock disi is the k04, you have an engine that can create a great amount of torque and exhaust energy for it's displacement becuase of the disi system and they hamstring it right out of the gate with a toy tc. K04's powerband is anemic,and then you get too much power when it really is counterproductive especailly with a fwd car, do you guys have any idea how many ms3 have been put into ditches because of inexperienced drivers and torque steer. Perfect example....looks good don't it? except for the fact this guy running e85 on a ko4 makes all of his power at just the start of the midrange of the engines powerband then the bottom falls out from underneath it....toy tc Kind of glad because there is an abundance of spare parts ms3 at wrecking yards

Guess you know everything.....

He is having throttle close issues I know.


Not saying the k04 is an amazing turbo...Not saying it doesnt suck.....Just saying you kind of look like a dumbass for making assumptions about VD graphs without knowing more than its a k04 with e85.

[chimmike]

Originally Posted by driver311 Damn that turbo is badass man. Hmmmmmmm that shit has me thinking. I never knew about the gtx3076 only flowing 3% more than the standard gt, but that new turbo is sick. I wonder if Eric can get me one? My wheels are turning big time.

did you see the author to that 'article' ? "engine basics"
Who is that?

sounds like conjecture to me.

Let's think about Garrett for a minute. What turbos do they sell (not chink ebay sellers or aftermarket shops who hybrid garrett parts) that are mismatched?

Google some dynos of gtx3076 cars, youtube too. There are gtx3076's making well north of 500whp, I've seen north of 550whp. Seems like a bit more than 3% more than a 3076.

GL OP, I think you're gonna be unhappy with the 35. It's definitely massive overkill for your current setup, too.

gtx3076r 613whp focus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=yr0awoiuE4s

533whp S2000 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...l2yeyRxq8U8fcg

534whp at 24psi: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...4HHg1KBFynqJUg

Perrin did some GREAT work here http://blog.perrinperformance.com/ga...turbo-comparo/

http://blog.perrinperformance.com/ga...turbo-comparo/

[Downmented]

Garrett GTX Turbo Comparo Part 2 » PERRIN Performance Official Blog

[bmylez]

That Focus is Andy's. I LOL at the intercooler. He kept breaking his motor from the power, so now he's planning on only 400-450whp on 93, heh.

[driver311]

Ive seen quite a few standard gt3076s do over 500whp on hondas, nissans and srts. But based off what ATP did when they tested all the gt turbos on that bolt on evo8 with high and low boost i dont doubt what that guy was saying. I mean he is comparing a garrett turbo to a garrett turbo. He is only helping garrett by posting his findings. Yes the 3076 makes more power than the 3071 but these findings verify why i went back from my 3076 to a 3071. Not only did it only make a touch less peak power at 22psi but the curve felt alot weaker. ALOT. These tests support what I was seeing on my dyno kinda and feeling on the street. I just liked the 3071 curve much more. And ith alot less spool and similar peak power the 3071 felt faster. and it showd for me on the track. I was faster with the 3071 straight up. Here is that article. Good info and I would love to do this with atps bolt on turbos on our car. I wonder if they would send me the turbos to do IT?????

ATP TURBO - The Premiere Provider of Turbocharging Components

[driver311]

Well after reading some more basically is sounds like the reason behind the turbo was just for people that wanted 35r power but needed a smaller frame. Still sounds good to me but Im gonna stick with what I have now and max it out. I really wanna see what I can max this atp gtx3071 at.

[harryclay]

Good info. I deffinatly have my mind made up on the gtx3071r.

[Matthew Myers]

Originally Posted by driver311 Ive seen quite a few standard gt3076s do over 500whp on hondas, nissans and srts. But based off what ATP did when they tested all the gt turbos on that bolt on evo8 with high and low boost i dont doubt what that guy was saying. I mean he is comparing a garrett turbo to a garrett turbo. He is only helping garrett by posting his findings. Yes the 3076 makes more power than the 3071 but these findings verify why i went back from my 3076 to a 3071. Not only did it only make a touch less peak power at 22psi but the curve felt alot weaker. ALOT. These tests support what I was seeing on my dyno kinda and feeling on the street. I just liked the 3071 curve much more. And ith alot less spool and similar peak power the 3071 felt faster. and it showd for me on the track. I was faster with the 3071 straight up. Here is that article. Good info and I would love to do this with atps bolt on turbos on our car. I wonder if they would send me the turbos to do IT????? ATP TURBO - The Premiere Provider of Turbocharging Components

Awesome, I've been trying to decide between the 3076 and the 3071, researching here and there, and this pretty much makes up my mind. Thank you.

[4G63]

Bump. Blow ur motor yet? How's that RaceBuilt coming along I heard they steal people's money and don't send out manifolds. Amirite??

[memin]

subbed for update????????

[shadesofgray19]

Originally Posted by 4G63 Bump. Blow ur motor yet? How's that RaceBuilt coming along I heard they steal people's money and don't send out manifolds. Amirite??

That I've heard all mani's that have been paid for have been sent out or money refunded to those that got tired of waiting.

[mason]

whats the deal with production? need more hands? i like the manifold they made. but seems to be fizzling out?

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by shadesofgray19 That I've heard all mani's that have been paid for have been sent out or money refunded to those that got tired of waiting.

Correct!

Originally Posted by 4G63 Bump. Blow ur motor yet? How's that RaceBuilt coming along I heard they steal people's money and don't send out manifolds. Amirite??

See above.

Originally Posted by memin subbed for update????????

Didn't know I had an interested audience =]

Originally Posted by mason whats the deal with production? need more hands? i like the manifold they made. but seems to be fizzling out?

Sorry guys, I haven't come back to this thread for a little.

The update is, he was playing catch up on the manifolds and now that everything has been satisfied he is again looking at my vehicle. BT is ready to be dropped in! Expect big big things within the next few weeks, now that the attention is back on my car ! I'm Pumped! Updated and Cleaned up Original post too =]

~JaKe

[greg08]

This is great man, I bet your going to have plenty of boost when you need it with the 35

[superskaterxes]

why low compression?

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes why low compression?

superskaterxes Open to suggestions, I was always informed for N/A High compression motors are ideal where-as Turbo is Low Compression. Definitely chime in if you think I need to change that idea

~JaKe

[h.h.sk1nny]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 Open to suggestions, I was always informed for N/A High compression motors are ideal where-as Turbo is Low Compression. Definitely chime in if you think I need to change that idea ~JaKe

Agreed. I don't know a whole lot about motor builds and what not, but the lower the compression, the more boost you can run. So, with a 35r which won't be moving till it gets lots of boost, you'd want a lower compression motor

[superskaterxes]

lower compression is just for knock resistance. i would never go lower then stock compression on this motor because DI/E85/Meth provides all the knock resistance you could ever need.

you will also need more boost to make the same power if you go lower. more boost means longer spool time means needing a bigger hotside/stronger studs/ect.

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes lower compression is just for knock resistance. i would never go lower then stock compression on this motor because DI/E85/Meth provides all the knock resistance you could ever need. you will also need more boost to make the same power if you go lower. more boost means longer spool time means needing a bigger hotside/stronger studs/ect.

superskaterxes Okay so I suppose it would make sense to maintain stock compression on a built motor. But what about if the motor was the Bored Stage III motor with CP-E. If I'm trying to maintain the ability to reach 8K RPM's and how the car liked it according to Erich & PTP John should I not reduce it from 9.5:1 to 8.5:1 to offset this and allow it to still want to rev to 8K with custom Cams? I was told boreing may inhibit revving capabilities. So Kind of like a balance the equation situation.

Would selecting proper cams for this setup also be effected. Or if I saw success with a cam profile on a 2.3, could I assume the same success/potential for the 2.4? 06Speed6 SPEED6 KILLAH

Supposing:
- 2.4L SIII CP-E Block/Pistons
- Ability to rev to 8K RPM's (With proper Cams)
- Maintain Low end/torque
- Setup can take me all the way to 1000 AWHP (should I pursue that far)

~JaKe

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 superskaterxes Okay so I suppose it would make sense to maintain stock compression on a built motor. But what about if the motor was the Bored Stage III motor with CP-E. If I'm trying to maintain the ability to reach 8K RPM's and how the car liked it according to Erich & PTP John should I not reduce it from 9.5:1 to 8.5:1 to offset this and allow it to still want to rev to 8K with custom Cams? I was told boreing may inhibit revving capabilities. So Kind of like a balance the equation situation. Would selecting proper cams for this setup also be effected. Or if I saw success with a cam profile on a 2.3, could I assume the same success/potential for the 2.4? 06Speed6 SPEED6 KILLAH Supposing: - 2.4L SIII CP-E Block/Pistons - Ability to rev to 8K RPM's (With proper Cams) - Maintain Low end/torque - Setup can take me all the way to 1000 AWHP (should I pursue that far) ~JaKe

Personally I think the 2.4l kit isn't worth the money. One problem is that the engine will want more air on the same head/intake/valvetrain and that gets expensive. Second you need to destroke the engine for 8000 rpm, which means you lose torque but gain high rpm hp, and it also means you lose displacement. So with the bigger 91mm bore and a destroked crank you are probably less than 2.3l.... basically its too much hassle.

If you REALLY want 8k rpm and increased displacement the real solution is a increase in deck height of 2-3", a 100mm crank out of a 2.5l, and 91mm sleeves. That would give you around 2.7l of displacement and a 2-3" longer rod would give a better rod angle for more rpm and the 100mm crank would add torque. All of that is even more hassle but at least the rewards are better. Needless to say it would require some seriously huge cams and all out head work for it to breathe right.

[06Speed6]

And you can probably run the gt35 pretty well at 2.4l, for the 2.7ishl setup you probably need a gt40/42.

Throw any ideas of lower compression in the trash, if anything a increase in compression could be considered.

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Personally I think the 2.4l kit isn't worth the money. One problem is that the engine will want more air on the same head/intake/valvetrain and that gets expensive. Second you need to destroke the engine for 8000 rpm, which means you lose torque but gain high rpm hp, and it also means you lose displacement. So with the bigger 91mm bore and a destroked crank you are probably less than 2.3l.... basically its too much hassle. If you REALLY want 8k rpm and increased displacement the real solution is a increase in deck height of 2-3", a 100mm crank out of a 2.5l, and 91mm sleeves. That would give you around 2.7l of displacement and a 2-3" longer rod would give a better rod angle for more rpm and the 100mm crank would add torque. All of that is even more hassle but at least the rewards are better. Needless to say it would require some seriously huge cams and all out head work for it to breathe right.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 And you can probably run the gt35 pretty well at 2.4l, for the 2.7ishl setup you probably need a gt40/42. Throw any ideas of lower compression in the trash, if anything a increase in compression could be considered.

So either way I would need the sleeves. I got you on grabbing the crank out of a 2.5L and I read more about what you said here. Okay, Crankshaft is $475.29 Sleeves included in S3 Block, But longer rods & increasing deck height? Point me where to look...and my Cams grinded by your web guys and head work?

Price? Links? Reliability? Has it been done? Guanteed success/win win? Read more about this by the evo guys talking about hondas doing this too.

~JaKe

[Hamilton69]

first time stepping into this thread, my hat is off to you sir

[06Speed6]

No its never been done on our engine, it could be fairly easily done I think, ive ran it through my head many many times. It would cost probably $7000 and would require the spacer, couple head gaskets, custom studs, timing cover extension, custom timing chain, custom sleeves, custom rods. It would be sick because you could create a big bore rev monster. I bet that with the smaller stroke cosworth crank you could spec it to 12k rpm and keep it a daily driver. Increasing rod length basically makes the engine think it has a smaller stroke crank because the rod angle stays the same or even gets more rpm friendly.

Diesels run enormous strokes on their cranks but because they have very long rods they can still get some rpm out of them.