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 Old 12-14-2013, 01:44 PM   #1
 
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Default Code Monkey goes EWG

I thoroughly enjoyed my BNR at the track, but after going completely catless the turbo turned into boost creep central. Still ok for the street but bad for road racing. To solve the problem once and for all, I decided to go EWG so here we go:

-- GTX3071R with Tial MV-S
-- RapeBuilt EM, coated with a 3000 F titanium coating by Polymer Dynamics of Houston
-- SURE Full3 Aeros ID325 GT -- already had a Full3 Aeros ID300 so I only ordered a 3" Bigmouth with a 4" inlet, however SURE mistakenly sent me a 3.25" Bigmouth so I said fuck it and upgraded to a 3.25" MAF, still waiting for the MAF, the customer service is like pulling teeth
-- upgrade to AP v3
-- yet another freektune, I think this is my 5th

Thanks to @EdgeAutosport.com; for a just-jizzed-in-my-pants deal on the AP and turbo kit!

I am still on stock block so obviously the GTX will not be maxed out; the goal is to keep the engine happy at the track -- no boost creep and lower BATs -- I hit 203 F last track day, ouch! Will probably keep it arond 320 whp and tq, nothing too crazy.

Other relevant mods that I already have on the car are:

-- HPFP, injector seals and studs
-- 3" catless DP and single-exit CBE
-- PnP TB & IM
-- 3.5" TMIC, 3-bar MAP, EBCS

On Monday I will drop off the dump pipe and turbo hotside at Polymer Dynamics for coating and will start the install once I get them back.

@aggierandy; @EyeKon; @Manuel; @S-hendrix;

Edit: Got tired of not hearing from SURE so went with the 3.5" JBR intake.
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Last edited by Code Monkey; 12-17-2013 at 07:23 PM.
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 Old 12-14-2013, 01:47 PM   #2
 
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Looking forward to the install!

Sent from my XT926
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 Old 12-15-2013, 12:22 PM   #3
 
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Whoop whoop cant wait!
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 Old 12-15-2013, 02:28 PM   #4
 
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Awesome!! It's nice to see someone who is modding/upgrading not just to make ungodly HP/TQ numbers for one pull on a dyno; that's cool and all, but many of those cars wouldn't make it more than 5 minutes on the track without blowing up. Well done and good luck with everything.
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 Old 12-15-2013, 03:02 PM   #5
 
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Very nice... I got the same turbo/EM setup and cannot be happier. I wish I would of coated the EM and the Hot side. I want to take the car to a track so bad but I need to invest in some heat management (Coat EM, maybe hot side, and wrap DP).
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 Old 12-15-2013, 03:13 PM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by Jansi View Post
Very nice... I got the same turbo/EM setup and cannot be happier. I wish I would of coated the EM and the Hot side. I want to take the car to a track so bad but I need to invest in some heat management (Coat EM, maybe hot side, and wrap DP).
How are you supporting the turbo? I think I have seen someone modifying/hacking the stock turbo bracket -- of course it will not bolt to the GTX but maybe it just touches the bottom to give a bit of extra support.

I will also have the dump pipe ceramic coated, but the downpipe will be left uncoated -- it is stainless steel and catless so it should not heat up much.
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 Old 12-15-2013, 03:21 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
How are you supporting the turbo? I think I have seen someone modifying/hacking the stock turbo bracket -- of course it will not bolt to the GTX but maybe it just touches the bottom to give a bit of extra support.

I will also have the dump pipe ceramic coated, but the downpipe will be left uncoated -- it is stainless steel and catless so it should not heat up much.

The turbo is supported just by the EM and DP. I got around 1K miles since putting in the kit and no problems. I wanted to modify the bracket but having the EWG come off the bottom of the hot side makes it almost impossible to utilize it. Really, there is no way to do it with the bracket unless you really put some thought and creativity to make it work. I figured since the EM isn't coated and if it develops a crack or pin hole I can weld it back up but if it becomes a major issue I would probably go with a cast mani which is a lot stronger than a tubular design.

There's always a Con with every Pro. :/


One more thing, make sure your DP comes straight down. It's hard to explain, I had ebay Dp and it would not fit with the EWG down there so we had to get creative and design our own Dp.

RIP K04, Hello GTX3071r

Ref post #49 for pics
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 Old 12-15-2013, 03:29 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by Jansi View Post
I figured since the EM isn't coated and if it develops a crack or pin hole I can weld it back up but if it becomes a major issue I would probably go with a cast mani
That's what I was thinking. I did not go with the cp-e EM because I heard it was a bitch to install on the MS3 and almost impossible on the MS6 + those installs were on IWG turbos.

Originally Posted by Jansi View Post
One more thing, make sure your DP comes straight down. It's hard to explain, I had ebay Dp and it would not fit with the EWG down there so we had to get creative and design our own Dp.
Lol, I was just reading through this yesterday. Right now I have the cp-e DP, we will see....
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 Old 12-15-2013, 03:34 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
That's what I was thinking. I did not go with the cp-e EM because I heard it was a bitch to install on the MS3 and almost impossible on the MS6 + those installs were on IWG turbos.



Lol, I was just reading through this yesterday. Right now I have the cp-e DP, we will see....

Not really sure how the 6 is set up but taking the two bolt's out of the passenger mount and pulling the engine fwd gave me a lot of space to work in the back (easier to put the Mani in too)
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 Old 12-15-2013, 03:35 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by Jansi View Post
Not really sure how the 6 is set up but taking the two bolt's out of the passenger mount and pulling the engine fwd gave me a lot of space to work in the back (easier to put the Mani in too)
With the ac and heater lines gone, I have plenty of space there now.
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 Old 12-15-2013, 06:37 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
With the ac and heater lines gone, I have plenty of space there now.
I just ordered this same kit from edge and have a cp-e downpipe and mani all sitting in my bedroom. Was planning on doing the install myself but I have not done a turbo install before and the EWG setup is the only thing i'm concerned about at this point. Still might give it a shot myself but i haven't found any pictures on here of what it looks like on speed6 with the EWG. I also bought the 90degree elbow supposedly takes care of the fitment issues on the 6.

Did you get the 90degree adapter?

I won't have time to do the install until after new years. If you go through yours by then can you snap a few pics?

My other option is to have it done while im getting my clutch diagnosed... if they need to pull it. I have a CP-e stage 2 with 2500 miles on only and it makes this ridiculous chirping sound on engagement in 1st and 2nd. Talked to chris at cp-e and he says he thinks it's the pilot bearing?? not sure how that makes sense. The PB only has 30k on it.
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 Old 12-15-2013, 07:18 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by dollarsignbill View Post
I won't have time to do the install until after new years. If you go through yours by then can you snap a few pics?
Yeah, I will post pictures for sure. I did get the 90* adapter. I hope that PolyDyn can rush the coating of the hot side and I can start the install in the next week or two.
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 Old 12-15-2013, 07:30 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Yeah, I will post pictures for sure. I did get the 90* adapter. I hope that PolyDyn can rush the coating of the hot side and I can start the install in the next week or two.
Sounds good, I'm excited to see it.

As far as the install, thinking it through I'm confident I have the skills to get the mani, downpipe and turbo itself in, just the EWG that scares me.

I'm planning on running mine similar to yours. Not pushing the limits of the gtx. Sounds like i have the same upgrades as you, minus the exhaust and the upgraded injector seals.

Would you recommend I wrap the mani and downpipe? I wasn't planning on it until reading this thread. I have the cpe mani which is cast so i'm not worried about cracking it but what are the benefits of wrapping it? Is it just to make sure you don't damage anything around it?
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 Old 12-15-2013, 07:42 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Yeah, I will post pictures for sure. I did get the 90* adapter. I hope that PolyDyn can rush the coating of the hot side and I can start the install in the next week or two.
What happened to Jan?

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I'm interested to see if we can get the bats down by focusing in keeping turbo and exhaust heat off the tmic. Maybe try hacking some of those heat shield back in there.

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 Old 12-15-2013, 08:04 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by dollarsignbill View Post
Would you recommend I wrap the mani and downpipe? I wasn't planning on it until reading this thread. I have the cpe mani which is cast so i'm not worried about cracking it but what are the benefits of wrapping it? Is it just to make sure you don't damage anything around it?
There are many opinions about coating, wrapping, and doing nothing at all.

My shop, old school, initially said to not coat/wrap anything that is stainless steel as stainless steel already has good thermal properties (gets hot fast, cools fast, and maintains high velocity of exhaust gases). That was with regard to NA engines, and the shop mentioned that turboed cars might benefit from coating.

From my Internet searches, coating looks to be more beneficial pre-turbo, so EM and hotside, the DP is less important, you could coat the upper part, the lower part is under the car and exposed to elements anyway.

I am having the EM and hotside coated to reduce the under the hood temps primarily, if there is an added benefit that the turbo could spool sooner, I will not be able to enjoy it anyway until I go forged.

Do not use wrap, it you ever get any fluid in it, it will keep moisture in and corrosion can develop. Again, this should not be a problem with stainless steel, but you never know what quality stainless steel you have.

Originally Posted by aggierandy View Post
What happened to Jan?
It is still on. Based on my previous installs, I know I should get a head start, because there is always a chance the EWG will hit the DP, the dump pipe will not fit, or some other shit, and the car will be down for a month. I am actually hoping that my car will be up and running by the time you show up and we can knock out your install in a day.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 08:13 AM   #16
 
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One more thing, make sure your DP comes straight down. It's hard to explain, I had ebay Dp and it would not fit with the EWG down there so we had to get creative and design our own Dp.
This is what im worried about when i order my kit soon. I know a genpu guy thats local to me that has this kit and an ebay downpipe and he didnt have an issue with it fitting. Im debating on just ordering the atp downpipe along with it to avoid the headache since i wont know till install day.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 09:44 AM   #17
 
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Dump pipe and turbo hotside dropped off, will be ready for pickup Friday! I have the dump pipe coated inside and out and the hotside coated outside only.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 10:24 AM   #18
 
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I do like a 6 owner who uses his car for the track, and pushes the platform. Are you concerned about boost response moving to a 30 series turbo?

What's going to happen to the Beaner?

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 Old 12-16-2013, 10:41 AM   #19
 
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You should send the hotside to @xxdjfate76xx; so he can port the hotside of the turbo.

He ceramic coats as well but from my brief skimming you're already being taken care of for that
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 Old 12-16-2013, 10:54 AM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by DamagedGoods View Post
I do like a 6 owner who uses his car for the track, and pushes the platform. Are you concerned about boost response moving to a 30 series turbo?
I think being a GTX, the turbo will spool fine. I almost never drop below 4000 rpms during track sessions anyway and from what I have read, the between the shift recovery is phenomenal.

Originally Posted by DamagedGoods View Post
What's going to happen to the Beaner?
Going into good hands.

Originally Posted by killer-ms3 View Post
You should send the hotside to @xxdjfate76xx; so he can port the hotside of the turbo
I noticed that some guys here had their EWG ported, I will see how my turbo behaves and go from there.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 11:04 AM   #21
 
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Slick setup. Interested to see how the EWG hotside works for you (someone who actually uses the car under racing conditions). I heard some people have creep issues, some don't.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 11:48 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by captain slow View Post
Slick setup. Interested to see how the EWG hotside works for you (someone who actually uses the car under racing conditions). I heard some people have creep issues, some don't.
Creep issues even with an EWG hotside? Who was having those issues? Only reason I ask is I just bought the EWG hotside because I was having creeping issues with my IWG. If I end up having creep even with the EWG I'll just about shit a brick.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 11:52 AM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by duappleganger View Post
Creep issues even with an EWG hotside? Who was having those issues? Only reason I ask is I just bought the EWG hotside because I was having creeping issues with my IWG. If I end up having creep even with the EWG I'll just about shit a brick.
It crept a bit on someone but only to like 18psi so if you target over that, boost creep should not be an issue, I am sure @atvfreek; or @Lex; can chime in.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 11:57 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
It crept a bit on someone but only to like 18psi so if you target over that, boost creep should not be an issue, I am sure @atvfreek; or @Lex; can chime in.
Ah ok, I won't be running insane boost but my vag isn't quite so gaping as to only run 18psi on an EWG BT.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 12:06 PM   #25
 
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the gtx series comes anti-surge ported already. What I meant was port the hot side so you get better airflow which means quicker spool.

I have a gtx3071 atp kit no creep at all
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 Old 12-16-2013, 12:23 PM   #26
 
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Originally Posted by captain slow View Post
Slick setup. Interested to see how the EWG hotside works for you (someone who actually uses the car under racing conditions). I heard some people have creep issues, some don't.
I've tuned quite a few people with the EWG hotside and boost has been very controllable with no creep.

Now some cars do get more boost then what the spring is technically setup for, but it is usually a solid boost curve. ie they have a 14psi spring but see 16 or 17psi.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 01:36 PM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by atvfreek View Post
I've tuned quite a few people with the EWG hotside and boost has been very controllable with no creep.

Now some cars do get more boost then what the spring is technically setup for, but it is usually a solid boost curve. ie they have a 14psi spring but see 16 or 17psi.

Is this due to the waste gate being on the housing?
I remember reading somewhere that it is better to have it on the exhaust manifold from an exhaust gas flow perspective
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 Old 12-16-2013, 03:51 PM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by cletusb View Post
Is this due to the waste gate being on the housing?
I remember reading somewhere that it is better to have it on the exhaust manifold from an exhaust gas flow perspective

Yes location and angle of the wastegate can change what actual spring pressure would be.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 04:10 PM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
There are many opinions about coating, wrapping, and doing nothing at all.

My shop, old school, initially said to not coat/wrap anything that is stainless steel as stainless steel already has good thermal properties (gets hot fast, cools fast, and maintains high velocity of exhaust gases). That was with regard to NA engines, and the shop mentioned that turboed cars might benefit from coating.

From my Internet searches, coating looks to be more beneficial pre-turbo, so EM and hotside, the DP is less important, you could coat the upper part, the lower part is under the car and exposed to elements anyway.

I am having the EM and hotside coated to reduce the under the hood temps primarily, if there is an added benefit that the turbo could spool sooner, I will not be able to enjoy it anyway until I go forged.

Do not use wrap, it you ever get any fluid in it, it will keep moisture in and corrosion can develop. Again, this should not be a problem with stainless steel, but you never know what quality stainless steel you have.

Thanks for the input.

I talked to Allen at edgeauto today and came to the realization that i'm a moron and didn't need to order the full EWG kit because my CP-e Mani already has an EWG outlet on it... Would have needed to order the turbo anyway but wouldn't have needed the 90 degree elbow and 38mm wastegate. Would need 44mm wastegate and Kozmik dump pipe instead. Sounds like they will swap some parts for me if I want to do it but i'm not sure which would be better for fitment. Any thoughts? Everything i've read makes it look like it's cp-e wastegate is easy to do on a speed3 but maybe not the 6.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 04:16 PM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by atvfreek View Post
I've tuned quite a few people with the EWG hotside and boost has been very controllable with no creep.

Now some cars do get more boost then what the spring is technically setup for, but it is usually a solid boost curve. ie they have a 14psi spring but see 16 or 17psi.
Well that settles that. Lol. I don't remember where I was reading it but I'd trust your response. Carry on.

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 Old 12-16-2013, 04:17 PM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by dollarsignbill View Post
I talked to Allen at edgeauto today and came to the realization that i'm a moron and didn't need to order the full EWG kit because my CP-e Mani already has an EWG outlet on it... Would have needed to order the turbo anyway but wouldn't have needed the 90 degree elbow and 38mm wastegate. Would need 44mm wastegate and Kozmik dump pipe instead. Sounds like they will swap some parts for me if I want to do it but i'm not sure which would be better for fitment. Any thoughts? Everything i've read makes it look like it's cp-e wastegate is easy to do on a speed3 but maybe not the 6.
If you can have an EWG on the EM, go for it. This is what I would ideally do, but going EWG on the hotside was the easiest option for me given time and money constraints. I did not feel like buying another EM and going custom DP. I am not sure about the fit of the cp-e EG on the MS6.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
If you can have an EWG on the EM, go for it. This is what I would ideally do, but going EWG on the hotside was the easiest option for me given time and money constraints. I did not feel like buying another EM and going custom DP. I am not sure about the fit of the cp-e EG on the MS6.

Yea i'm going to do some more research on the fitment and see what i can find. Seems like that would be the more ideal setup and i could just block off the 38mm outlet in the bottom of my housing. Also depends on if edge will let me swap the parts at the 10% BF discount or not. I'm hoping they will.

Is there a formula is for knowing which spring pressure to to use? JP recommended i stay below 22 psi and I think that is a good target for when i get it tuned. I will be using a grimmspeed EBCS.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 04:59 PM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by dollarsignbill View Post
Is there a formula is for knowing which spring pressure to to use? JP recommended i stay below 22 psi and I think that is a good target for when i get it tuned. I will be using a grimmspeed EBCS.
I think the rule of thumb was to run a spring rated at 50% of max boost you want to run? So 22 psi / 2 = 11 psi spring? I will be running a 14 psi spring, I think most start with it and adjust from there if needed.
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 Old 12-16-2013, 07:42 PM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
I think the rule of thumb was to run a spring rated at 50% of max boost you want to run? So 22 psi / 2 = 11 psi spring? I will be running a 14 psi spring, I think most start with it and adjust from there if needed.
Just so you have an idea, I'm running the 14.5 psi spring and i'm sitting around 55-60ish WGDC to hold 23 psi at RL on Grimmspeed 3 port ECBS


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 Old 12-17-2013, 04:08 AM   #35
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
I think the rule of thumb was to run a spring rated at 50% of max boost you want to run? So 22 psi / 2 = 11 psi spring? I will be running a 14 psi spring, I think most start with it and adjust from there if needed.

I find 14psi to be the best to get started on. You can keep boost low if needed, but still have enough headroom to push 28-30psi if you wanted
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 Old 12-17-2013, 06:29 PM   #36
 
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@Jansi; Do you know of anyone else who has had the same issue you had with the downpipe? I know a local gen2 guy didnt have an issue with his ebay downpipe. I'm assuming there are small deviations amongst the ebay downpipes that cause fitment differentiations.
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 Old 12-17-2013, 06:38 PM   #37
 
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Default Code Monkey goes EWG

Originally Posted by mtosofsky View Post
@Jansi; Do you know of anyone else who has had the same issue you had with the downpipe? I know a local gen2 guy didnt have an issue with his ebay downpipe. I'm assuming there are small deviations amongst the ebay downpipes that cause fitment differentiations.
Yea there are different variants of the ebay pipe. I guess I got the one that gave me troubles because of the bend coming off the hotside.

*edit*** I don't really know many people that have this setup. Hell, many still don't know this shit exists!

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 Old 12-17-2013, 06:42 PM   #38
 
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Yea there are different variants of the ebay pipe. I guess I got the one that gave me troubles because of the bend coming off the hotside.
As soon as i saw your thread i went to my car and looked at the bend on mine and it looks so close even to the ko4, i have my doubts but ive been told ill be okay so who knows. Do you remember if yours was just "Ebay" or did it have some cheapy name. Mine is the m2.

Sorry OP, dont mean to thread jack or anything.
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 Old 12-17-2013, 07:22 PM   #39
 
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Have not heard from SURE for over a week so went with the JBR 3.5" intake.
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 Old 12-17-2013, 07:31 PM   #40
 
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I'm getting a BNR3 in the spring and din't know the BNR had creep issues. Anyone else have this problem?
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