Top mount turbo setups

[MS3KO]

Put me down on the list! Im 100% interested!

[djuosnteisn]

Sixxx, i'd like to see some pictures of that routing

[xcoldricex]

why don't you start working on an IM?

yes routing the piping over the engine is terrible. i think i dropped about 15 deg by wrapping my fmic pipe with gold heat shield tape. fucker gets HOT

[NJSPEED3]

We have 2 guys working on IM now and cpe as well. I dont think i could do any better than those guys!

[MSP611]

Man u guys got set ups. I wish I had the money to put a garage together like this. I need a new mig welder and need to purchase a tig soon. Any suggestions on my earlier post about turbo and WG options?

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by MSP611 Man u guys got set ups. I wish I had the money to put a garage together like this. I need a new mig welder and need to purchase a tig soon. Any suggestions on my earlier post about turbo and WG options?

340awhp....because of the drivetrain loss, you would have to push the 3071 a bit harder to get there, but you said you're going with forged rods. A 3076 will *definitely* get you there no problem, but then you'll have a little more lag. 340 really really should not be a problem with the 3071 as long as you have all the other supporting mods and a good tune. As for a wastegate, you can never ever go wrong with the Tial MVS. It's 38mm and v-band. 44mm is for big boy setups and completely unnecessary for the power you want.

[mason]

you know im doing my set up soon. top mount 35R ect... well i have a cpe FMIC. Ive been thinking about redoing my FMIC piping to 2.5 and under the engine routing.
i am a pipe welder by trade. i have a miller dynasty 200. but i dont have a shop or a 220 power supply. but i can still do it....
but, id like to see a piping kit for FMIC under the engine routing. ???

[mason]

i will keep the cpe core. and redo the piping under car route. do it in 2.5 or 2.75? and mabey add this pre inter cooler. and of course be spraying meth.

i think a FMIC piping kit would sell.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by NJSPEED3 Well I guess I'll make the announcement here this isnt intended to take away from Dustin's future business, well the fact that we know each other well I'm sure he wont take this the wrong way. .... I'll be making a manifold/dp similar to dustin's....

Actually man, i know you didn't mean any harm, and i'm not taking it the wrong way, but i do think it would be a little screwed up.

I wasn't the first one with the top mount idea, but i was the first one to want to see it become a readily available option for those of us without fabbing abilities...

I asked Leen if he would be interested in such an option, and he agreed that it sounded like a genuine opportunity.

I went to Leen for 3 reasons. 1) his manifolds are bullet proof, and with my previous experiences with existing tubular manifolds, longevity is important. 2) his manifolds are affordable. He has a patent on a very unique and efficient design technique, and it enables him to make a superior product for a better price... this is perfect when your trying to make such a drastically different turbo setup mainstream. 3) he's honest. Plain and simple... Leen is honest.


The manifold is only one part of the equation though... in order to complete the setup, there needed to be down pipes and intakes to compliment the top mount location.

I saw a demand, and i decided to answer it. I invested a ton of my time to work out the intricacies on this setup, learn to weld, buy material, build parts for local test fitment for the price of materials alone.... etc etc etc. I'm invested at this point... and because of that, i'm protective.



Leen hasn't even finished the first batch of manifolds, and your announcing that your planning a very similar manifold and down pipe setup???!!! Really? Leen went out on a limb to do this, and your going to thank him by sitting on the sidelines for 4 months, and then when most the hard work is done, decide you'll compete?

And myself... i have bigger plans than this kit alone... TRUST ME...

BUT this kit is integral to my bigger plans. The "Top Mount" turbo market is going to be extremely small man. I seriously don't think it justifies 2 competing vendors. Especially at this point.



There are so many other things you can build, it would be really screwed up if you chose to tackle this "problem"... considering it's pretty much already solved.




I mean shoot, already in the posts just above mine, there's obvious demand for a hot pipe that can be routed under the car. That alone is a potential product, one which i haven't had any intention of tackling... ever... And it's only one of many existing demands.

[Fobio]

I am in for Leen's top mount mani...

I am in for Dustin's top mount DP and intake...

I'd be in for someone else's re-route of my Cp-e kit for undercar.

[bmylez]

Yeah, I'm already committed to the SS/Dustin combo. I personally would appreciate a top mount hot pipe conversion. Doesn't even have to be under car. I know I could use different couplers and cut the pipes, but it's not gonna be pretty.

[madvillain]

I have an extra cpe fmic hotpipe for the ms3 kit. Ill send it out to any of you guys if you need them for bends or anything. It's 2.5 aluminum obviously.. I can take some pictures of it too later.

[MSP611]

DJ is tryin to help us and another fool thinks he's gunna chime in to try to steal market? Tht doesn't seem very nice!!! Can't wait till this kit is put together BTW I will be ordering one as soon as I get back from deployment

[NJSPEED3]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Actually man, i know you didn't mean any harm, and i'm not taking it the wrong way, but i do think it would be a little screwed up.

My apologies Dustin I guess I should have worded my post differently, by no mean am I trying to compete with you or Leen. Nor am trying to become a Vendor lol.

All im saying is that im going to take the proper steps to set my shop up in order to be able to work on my car. The comment towards making parts for others was more on a NATOR type level in case someone needs something done I would help them out.

The topmount set up I was referring to was for my car. I feel bad now reading my post how it really seems, please excuse my ignorance I mean you're a good friend and I wouldn't ever consider taking any business away from a friend of mine. I'll delete it to avoid any confusion.

Your build has inspired me to make a manifold similar to yours that's all! I feel horrible how that came out now that I re read it!

[socks]

I agree that this 23page thread that dustin has been working on since July is not the place for this type of post Gerry.

[NJSPEED3]

I fucked up my post! I was just excited to tell everyone how I was going to be building my own set up!

[djuosnteisn]

When you get ready to build one, hit me up on gmail, and i'll show you where i got the best deals on parts, and what things to take into consideration for fabbing Gerry.

I'm glad the misunderstanding was resolved so quickly, lol.

[mason]

Originally Posted by madvillain I have an extra cpe fmic hotpipe for the ms3 kit. Ill send it out to any of you guys if you need them for bends or anything. It's 2.5 aluminum obviously.. I can take some pictures of it too later.

pics?

[madvillain]

Originally Posted by mason pics?

its in my garage somewhere. I'll be out there tomorrow and will dig it out and take some pics. If I remember right, it's got (2) 45*'s, (2) 90*'s, and maybe 2ft of straight in between those. It won't be enough to do your whole hot pipe alone, but if you cut up yours too you'd have plenty I bet.

I will also try my best to take some decent pics of my hot pipe routing. its really hard to get the car high enough to get any decent pictures.

[turd burglar]

those pre intercooler heat exchanger deals that mason posted might be good if you could route them in front of your fog lights (after removin the lights) but i'd think that they may soak up more heat pretty quick bein by the motor. better off just wrapping the pipes in exh. wrap, but maybe im wrong... like usual lol

[bmylez]

Exhaust wrap on charge pipes is ugly, heh. I'd rather get the shiny stuff. I'm definitely planning on wrapping the over-engine pipe.

[turd burglar]

well most guys are goin under car i think, and if you get black wrap, it might not look bad at all

[hnda etr]

My guess is that the air coming out of the turbo is already hot enough that either a) the temp of the hot pipe, although it's hot, is cooler than the charge air resulting in actually cooling the charge air as the piping absorbs some heat from the air or b) the temp of the hot pipe barely has an effect on the air coming out of the turbo considering that at the velocity the air is traveling through the pipe, it only has milliseconds to absorb any radiant heat from the pipe...

[mason]

Originally Posted by turd burglar those pre intercooler heat exchanger deals that mason posted might be good if you could route them in front of your fog lights (after removin the lights) but i'd think that they may soak up more heat pretty quick bein by the motor. better off just wrapping the pipes in exh. wrap, but maybe im wrong... like usual lol

yeah. depends on were you can put it. just brainstorming at this point. until i get the manny and mount the turbo, put it on the car and see what i can do.....

mad? aint those cpe pipes 2.25? thats one of the reasons i want to change my piping, i think 2.25 is going to be a lil small for a 35R setup. what do you think?

[kilik2]

Just wanted to clarify real quick, has the topmount mani been test fit on the ms3 yet?

[MSP611]

I don't think he has test fit it yet. He has a friend Tht has speed3 and has to test it on his car. Also does anyone have an ETA when these kits will be done

[mason]

hey mad, i know its a bitch but when you get a chance could you snap a few shots of your under the car IC pipes? i seen all the pics in your thread.... just a lil hard to make out.
but i love your set up.

thanks

[madvillain]

yeah, sorry, I got lazy yesterday hahah. I'm going out there now.

[doubleflusher]

Ok, I've read most of this thread and my dick is officially hard.

I've decided to keep my car and go BT.

Once I've secured funds, I'm going shopping in this thread.

[madvillain]

1) Extra Cp-e hotpipe is claimed by a local who has a hole or two in his. I'd rather give it to someone in need at the moment! Sorry Mason =(

2) I got the best pics I could of my IC routing... Hopefully this will be of some help to others too..

The IC core is mounted almost in the exact same place as my Cp-e kit. The hot pipe extends out of the passenger side of the IC core, to the turbo, the cold pipe from the drivers side of the IC core to the TB.

The cold pipe is simple, one piece, straight shot.

Looks like this:



The hotpipe WAS one piece, I found it to be a bit easier to deal with in two, plus, I wanted to allow a bit more flex, so I cut it and flex is achieved by a coupler. Worked out much better so far. But anyways, this is what it looks like as a whole:




In the pics, the left side of the pipe goes into the IC core, the right mates to the compressor out. The compressor out on my turbo is faced downwards, almost perfectly perpendicular to the ground. The tab mounts as a sort of swivel point on a little stud that is on the oil pan. Its perfect, and a great idea to prevent any contact with the belt. Has held up great so far. I tried to show this in the pics.

So, lets follow it from the IC core back.. this is the tricky part to capture with the camera.

Laying under the front bumper, looking towards the back of the car, on the passenger side of the motor...




Underneath...





Then it curves (~45*) right around the back side of the oil pan..





And you can see where I added the other coupler, and where it goes straight up into the compressor...






Does that make sense? Seriously, let me know if it doesn't. I'll try to do better

[bmylez]

That looks great!

[mason]

hell yeah, looks great and very few couplers. this will help me alot when i get started.
im getting 220 power supply hooked up in my garage so i can use my tig welder.

[rigor]

i made my own under car hot pipe and it only took a couple of hrs

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Man that IC pipe is tight between the pulley and whatever the fuck that is on the other side...

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by kilik2 Just wanted to clarify real quick, has the topmount mani been test fit on the ms3 yet?

I haven't test fit it yet (no ms3 at my disposal quite yet), but considering how compact it is, i'm 99% certain it'll fit without issue.

Originally Posted by MSP611 I don't think he has test fit it yet. He has a friend Tht has speed3 and has to test it on his car. Also does anyone have an ETA when these kits will be done

I'm going to build an ms6 down pipe very very soon. I've been just trying to wrap up all the rest of the family holiday stuff.... sucks when life intervenes with cars lol.

Once i build a down pipe off the jig, and successfully test fit it on my car, then i'll be ready to start building up more of them.

I'll have to jig an intake soon too, but those are literally super simple. I'll want a local with a battery in the stock location to verify fitment, cause my engine bay is a bit different than others.


And i'll have a spare set of modded oil lines after i pull the stockers off my car.

What time frame are you shooting for?

Originally Posted by madvillain 1) Extra Cp-e hotpipe is claimed by a local who has a hole or two in his. I'd rather give it to someone in need at the moment! Sorry Mason =(

Originally Posted by mason im getting 220 power supply hooked up in my garage so i can use my tig welder.

Mad, just send the pipe with holes to mason. If he's got a tig, he can weld it up himself.

[MSP611]

Not lookin for anything too soon becuz I go TDY then come back then deployment so prob after deployment. No rush jw. Can't wait to drop money on the 6 and have it as a weekend warrior. Thts if I pay it off this year And need to buy a dd

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx my 3 inch intercooler piping is being routed under car..

Wouldn't 3" be too big? The bigger the pipe, the more lag, no? Well, I guess it depends on the turbo. But, the GT35 has 2.5" pipe, I believe. And our throttle body is about 2.75".

Originally Posted by mason i think a FMIC piping kit would sell.

There have been several people to do FMIC piping kits, I think. If you do a better one, it will sell for sure.

Originally Posted by mason well i have a cpe FMIC. Ive been thinking about redoing my FMIC piping to 2.5 and under the engine routing.

Well, the core itself has 2.25" pipes. Would you modify the core's pipes?

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by mason and mabey add this pre inter cooler.

Originally Posted by xcoldricex yes routing the piping over the engine is terrible. i think i dropped about 15 deg by wrapping my fmic pipe with gold heat shield tape. fucker gets HOT

Originally Posted by hnda etr My guess is that the air coming out of the turbo is already hot enough that either a) the temp of the hot pipe, although it's hot, is cooler than the charge air resulting in actually cooling the charge air as the piping absorbs some heat from the air or b) the temp of the hot pipe barely has an effect on the air coming out of the turbo considering that at the velocity the air is traveling through the pipe, it only has milliseconds to absorb any radiant heat from the pipe...

I searched for info on that pre-intercooler that Mason mentioned. The threads I found (other forums, other cars) weren't too impressed. Most people seemed to agree with hnda's position, that the amount of time the air spends in the pipe, coupled with the fact that only a small amount of the air even comes in contact with the pipe means that the temperature of the hot pipe is negligible impact.

For this reason, I'm skeptical that running the hot pipe under the engine or xcoldricex's wrapping the hot pipe would make much impact. But, hell, I'm no engineer, so, could be wrong.

And that brings me to another point. We do have that duct that brings air to where the TMIC would be. I of course know that there is the competing element of the engine underneath, which is why we have FMIC's. But, even so, the air ducting works, to some degree, or TMIC's wouldn't work at all, no? I'm not sure exactly how, but it seems to me that there should be some way to take some advantage of the stock ducting.

Before I ever saw Mason's pic, I thought that maybe something like that would possibly take advantage of the stock ducting. But, again, per hnda's point, probably not.

I'm just throwing out ideas, of what seems to me. I guess I don't actually have any answers.

[Dano]

i'll jump out on that limb with you speedie...I don't think it matters where the pipe is nor if it is wrapped or not. That air is hotter than AMB engine bay air anyways and is moving waaay too fast for it to matter.

I am not an engineer either but I am opinionated LOL

[bmylez]

Well, here's the thing, K&N did a test between their plastic intakes and a typical aluminum AEM intake (not talking about MS3s, just about intakes in general). The IATs were *definitely* lower with a plastic tube than with a metal tube. Having the hot pipe go over the engine has to affect the air temp. An air-to-air I/C can only do so much, especially at low speeds. At high speeds, I'd agree it's fairly negligible, but at low to moderate speeds, I'd say things would be more prone to heat soak.