Top mount turbo setups

[bmylez]

Yeah, see that's what I'm talking about. GTXs are typically meant to be boosted high. If you look at the compressor map, that's where it really starts to shine. Doing some rough math, you'll need to flow about 50 lbs/min to make the power you want and that will require ~28psi. Like I said, I had to make a few assumptions in my calculation, but I don't think you're getting to 400awhp on 20psi. It's your choice. Maybe you'll get power hungry and want to the turn the wick up. If you're already building the motor, I can see how a GTX would be justified.

[MSP611]

Well I kinda decided Its better to be safe then sry and build the bottom end atleast. Well what kinda power am I lookin at for say a tune between19-21lbs for a 3076?

[bmylez]

Ugggh, I'm stupid. Ok, sorry. Let's back track. You won't quite need 50 lbs/min to hit your goal.

I redid the math, taking into account how efficient DI is as well as assuming you can rev to 7k rpm with a built motor.

21psi should pretty much get you to 400awhp. Don't quote me on that, though!

[MSP611]

I was wondering cuz. I've seem guys on like stock turbs at like 22-24lbs or wit bnr's runnin like 380s but I wasn't sure I'm Not the mathmetician here lol

[xdm88]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Back on the top mount topic lol..... I think it'd be easy to make an intake that sits in the same position as this one. Would everyone be okay with this? Also, i'll have to figure out how to add a recirc pipe to it.

i like the idea of the intake in that position. about the recirc pipe, if someone decided to cowboy it up later on, would cappin the recirc pipe be plausible or a ridiculous idea?

like to keep my options open

[MSP611]

Good questions^^

[bmylez]

I suppose it's not that much of a hardship to tune for VTA BOV. My car is already running 50/50 as is. I might still want a recirc pipe, though...

[MSP611]

^^fuck tht. Question... If u have EWG u can still run recirc correct?

[bmylez]

Yes, you can have an exhaust shop make a custom recirc tube into your downpipe. I forget who it was, but they had Meineke weld up a pipe for $125. I'm still torn on recirc'ing or not. It's much more complicated to recirc. Maybe I'll have them make an extended tube with a mini muffler on it, haha.

[MSP611]

^ya but then if u go VTA u have to tune for the missing air goin into the atmosphere which probably isn't hard, but if u don't get the tuning right ull be runnin pig rich every where poppin on decel. At least to my knowledge

[bmylez]

Bro, what are you talking about? Wastegate or blow off valve? Two VERY different things. Wastegates don't have to be tuned for. BOV, yes.

[MSP611]

I'm talkin bov sry. I've nvr had EWG so I don't know much about them I thought they were always VTA

[Dano]

Originally Posted by bmylez Yes, you can have an exhaust shop make a custom recirc tube into your downpipe. I forget who it was, but they had Meineke weld up a pipe for $125. I'm still torn on recirc'ing or not. It's much more complicated to recirc. Maybe I'll have them make an extended tube with a mini muffler on it, haha.

lol

the mini muffler doesn't work too well...too much restriction...a buddy of mine with an LGT gave a few "performance" motorcycle mufflers a try and the WG couldn't dump enough and he got creep....he the got it connected to his DP for a lil over 1 C note.

[bmylez]

Alright, scratch the muffler idea then! Thanks for the heads up.

I'll prolly run open dump until I get tired of the noise, haha.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by xdm88 i like the idea of the intake in that position. about the recirc pipe, if someone decided to cowboy it up later on, would cappin the recirc pipe be plausible or a ridiculous idea? like to keep my options open

Yeah, no harm in that at all.

[cageyvet]

Originally Posted by MSP611 I'm lookin to spend around $5000 for hopefully pauter rods and other essentials plus BT build. And I don't want nothin crazy this will be my weekend warrior, but since I'm goin on a 3076 I dunno maybe like 380-400AWHP and Mayb 400AWFTLBS... But not sure. I don't wanna run no 25lbs of boost just conservative 19-20 Mayb even lower if this turbo makes crzy power

If you're going to spend good money on a turbo just buy a gt35r. If you want to save some money and make the power you're talking about there's a baziillion garrett turbos that aren't in the gt lineup that will make the power you want without costing an arm and a leg. Check out some of these garrett journal bearing turbos: T3 60-1 stage 3 wheel, .63 ar, T3 60 trim .63 a/r, T3 57 trim .82 a/r, T3 61mm compressor wheel stage III turbine wheel .70 a/r, T3 50 trim .63 a/r. All of which are well under a $1000. Use the left over money and treat your car to some nitrous!!!

[mason]

DJ, for the oil and coolant lines...... are you just welding on AN fittings to the stock connections? then we run SS braided lines from there to turbo rite?

im just going over all the fittings i need for turbo. bango, oil restrictor, AN ect...
and was also wondering the proper length of SS lines we will need for top mount set up?

[bmylez]

Oh I was under the impression that we didn't have to buy anything for the oil/coolant lines. I thought he modified the stock ones to connect back to OEM points. I was getting excited that I didn't have to figure out any hoses or fittings on my own (just being lazy, I am capable).

[MSP611]

Well I want to spend like 5 grand on the whole motor build including turbo and everything if I can. I jst want a quality quick spooling turbo tht will make good power on low boost nothin more then like 21lbs. I Dont really care on numbers to much so I kinda understand where ur sayin save with not Gettin a huge gt series. I thought the 3071 would be a good choice but I dunno WTF I'm lookin for when I'm getting into individual turbos. I'm jst a good mechanic with mediocre knowledge (more on jets though), since this Is my first BT adventure.

[kilik2]

Are you building yourself? that's cutting it kinda close, and there are going to be a lot of hidden expenses that come up out of nowhere.

[MSP611]

Yes building myself

[cageyvet]

Originally Posted by MSP611 Well I want to spend like 5 grand on the whole motor build including turbo and everything if I can. I jst want a quality quick spoiling turbo tht will make good power on low boost nothin more then like 21lbs. I Dont really care on numbers to much so I kinda understand where ur sayin save with not Gettin a gt series.

Personally I'd stick with the journal bearing turbos unless I was trying to make more than 475+whp. All of the previous turbos will spool fine and make good power.Don't get caught in the hype of blowing money on something very marginal.

[bmylez]

You'll just have to deal with more lag if you go with journal bearing.

As a side note, perhaps you should make your own build thread so we don't keep going off topic . You'll probably get more help that way.

[MSP611]

Originally Posted by cageyvet If you're going to spend good money on a turbo just buy a gt35r. If you want to save some money and make the power you're talking about there's a baziillion garrett turbos that aren't in the gt lineup that will make the power you want without costing an arm and a leg. Check out some of these garrett journal bearing turbos: T3 60-1 stage 3 wheel, .63 ar, T3 60 trim .63 a/r, T3 57 trim .82 a/r, T3 61mm compressor wheel stage III turbine wheel .70 a/r, T3 50 trim .63 a/r. All of which are well under a $1000. Use the left over money and treat your car to some nitrous!!!

So any of these turbos are a good choice^^? any brand suggestions?

[MSP611]

I would but I'm not building anything yet jst finding suggestions and keepin interest in this top mount subject.

[cageyvet]

Originally Posted by bmylez You'll just have to deal with more lag if you go with journal bearing. As a side note, perhaps you should make your own build thread so we don't keep going off topic . You'll probably get more help that way.

Lag really gets over exaggerated, keep in mind the K04 is a journal bearing turbo and its SO LAGGY, right??? Again I wouldnt worry about running a ball bearing turbo or lag unless I was running a turbine wheel greater than 57mm and with a hotside AR greater than .63 or ff I was planning on running the turbo alot at high boost levels b/c ball bearing turbos are supposed to be more durable.

Originally Posted by MSP611 So any of these turbos are a good choice^^? any brand suggestions?

For the power and boost you're talking about I'd get the 60-1 (garret t3 60-1) or precision sc6169(the 6169 should have the stage III turbine wheel)

[MSP611]

^^^ Coo thank for ur suggestions and Insight I'll start doin a lil more research on what I should get. Can u still get these other journal bearing turbos in a twin scroll hotside?

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by cageyvet Lag really gets over exaggerated, keep in mind the K04 is a journal bearing turbo and its SO LAGGY, right??? Again I wouldnt worry about running a ball bearing turbo or lag unless I was running a turbine wheel greater than 57mm and with a hotside AR greater than .63 or ff I was planning on running the turbo alot at high boost levels b/c ball bearing turbos are supposed to be more durable.

Haha, and you exaggerated my lag comment . I know the stock turbo is journal...it's also not big. When you start talking about 400whp, you're gonna have to go up a couple sizes. Considering he's probably only going to rev to 7k, he needs something that will spool soon enough to give him a decent powerband. I agree the 60-1 would be great, but there would definitely be noticeable lag compared to a similar BB turbo.

[MSP611]

Thx for the suggestions on the turbos. The 60-1 is a good choice and a shit load cheaper. Still comes with the option of a .78 A/R t3 divided so twin scroll Is still a go!!!

[qtrmile beast]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 Unfortunately, I'm not going this cool route. But, for the hell of it, I decided to price turbos. I only priced Garrett, I know of course there are other brands. But, I don't know shit about any other brand. And, I used ATP for pricing. Perhaps better pricing is available elsewhere, so, this is just point of reference: Garrett GT3076R (aka GT30R aka GT3037) Ball Bearing Turbo Turbine_AR: 78_only_avail_on_dividedT3 Specify_Turbine_Housing_Style: Divided_T3 $1353.00 Garrett GT3582R (aka GT35R, aka GT35/40R) Bearing Turbo Turbin_AR: 78_only_on_T3_twinscroll_vband Specify_Turbine_Housing_Style: Divided_T3 $1,436.49 Garrett GTX3076R Dual Ball Bearing Turbo .78 A/R Divided T3 Exhaust housing for GT Ball Bearing Series $1687.93 Garrett GTX3582R Dual Ball Bearing Turbo .78 A/R Divided T3 Exhaust housing for GT Ball Bearing Series $2090.61 It looked like, for another $100, you could get a .82 A/R divided T3 housing for the GTX turbos. Not sure why you'd pay $100 for that small of a difference. Now, I checked Forced Performance, for their modified Garret turbos. They don't actually list divided T3 as an option! At least not on their site. A Google search seemed to indicate that you might be able to use divided T3 housings with them, I got some hits on that. But, I didn't spend enough time to get a definitive answer. And, presumably, there is a reason why they don't list such an option on their site. So, it might take a phone call to Forced Performance to find out for sure. At any rate, here are the prices: FP HTA GT3582R $1699.00, lists a 1.0 A/R divided T4, no divided T3 FP HTA GT3076R $1699.00, lists no divided housing option at all

check this place out as this is where i got the gt3582 from for a customer that i am building his car and i chose the .82 a/r housing with no additional cost!!!!

http://www.extremepsi.com/store/cust...e.php?cat=1119

[MSP611]

I'm not goin tht big of a turbo. I'm tryin to save money not waste it becuz not a powa chaser.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by bmylez Oh I was under the impression that we didn't have to buy anything for the oil/coolant lines. I thought he modified the stock ones to connect back to OEM points. I was getting excited that I didn't have to figure out any hoses or fittings on my own (just being lazy, I am capable).

You LAZY SON OF A......

JK, yeah, i plan on modding the stock oil feed and oil return lines, and i can supply the proper lengths of SS tubing as well (I'll have to charge you what the local shop charges, but they're pretty reasonable). I won't be including any of the oil restrictors, etc, just the lines essentially. And the lengths are yet to be determined. I'll know once we install a turbo on one of these manifolds.... hopefully in the very near future. But if i had to guess, it'd be between 14" & 18". I honestly don't know yet.

For coolant lines, some will need a bypass, and others will simply need extensions. I honestly think this would be as simple as ordering some nice coolant hose and just swapping it out. For the MS6, the coolant hose to the transfer case switches sizes (oem hose is larger on one side than the other), so the people would have to buy a barb nipple and just hook the new line to that. I can post pics if needed.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Originally Posted by qtrmile beast check this place out as this is where i got the gt3582 from for a customer that i am building his car and i chose the .82 a/r housing with no additional cost!!!! EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Garrett GT Ball Bearing Series

Extreme is only 10 mins away from me. It's where I'll most likely get my turbo from. I've already spent a shit ton of money there from when I had my DSM. Hell, I think between me and my other buddies we pretty much paid for the new Porsche he just picked up lmao.

Before ordering from there shoot me a PM with what you're looking for and I'll see if I can hook you up.

[bmylez]

Yeah, charge me for the lines! Just trying to get this thing as bolt-on as possible.

What's holding you back from installing a turbo? Is that MS3 guy hard to get a hold of?

[djuosnteisn]

Na, he's easy to get a hold of. I just want to finish the 6 kit first.... so i can button up my whip and free up a spot in the garage for the 3. It's colder than a witch's titty here.... and i'll be damned if i'm gonna work outside doing this stuff lol.


I'm actually gonna see if i can borrow his car for a few days if necessary... maybe i'll let him borrow my wrx or something.... And drive the ms6 to and fro work.

[bmylez]

I would gladly accept a WRX as a loaner car if you were fitting a sick azz top mount kit on my ride, haha.

[djuosnteisn]

lol... only rule on the wrx is no WOT though...... it'll break.... no where near as tough as the speeds.

[bmylez]

What year? I know the '02 - '05s had transmission problems, among other things, right? Why not trade it in for somethin tougher/more economical/etc?

[djuosnteisn]

2002. bug eye.


I actually sold my jeep cherokee for it. I just love the look and sound of it, and the gas mileage is way better than my jeep. So it basically was my more economical purchase lol. I snow board a lot in the winter, so i'm usually driving like 3-3.5 hours to resorts in CO. Figured the subaru was a perfect fit (and it is actaully).


Once i finally get my mazda pretty much finished, i'll probably save up and pull the trigger on the wrx. 6 speed swap and 2.5 liter... fitted with a fun turbo.... Maybe shoot for like 450 with it (where my 6 used to be). It'll then be bullet proof and still fairly economical.


I just have to save up a lot, cause those 6 speeds ain't cheap. Going rate is like $4k or so.

[bmylez]

I guess you must REALLY love the look because you can find '04 STIs for $16k...much cheaper than all the work you're talkin about. Also...I didn't know the stock EJ25 could take 450. Most people stop at 400 from what I've seen.