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 Old 01-07-2014, 04:42 PM   #1
 
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Default Twin Charged Mazdaspeed 3

I am posting this for my friend Tim who is not on the forum but I felt like it should be shared with you guys. Tim is a friend of mine from east Texas where I used to live and he purchased my old GTX3071 when I switched to the Top Mount HTA3586. I tuned him on that turbo to about 370whp. I must admit, when Tim approached me with this idea I certainly had my doubts, but it has been awesome seeing what he has come up with. Tim has put a ton of thought and done a ton of research to get his project to where it is today and I'm very excited to see where it goes from here.

This is Tim and his Mazdaspeed 3. And I am going to let him tell you about what he has done to it.

.

Twin charged 2007 Mazdaspeed 3

By Tim Clark

Basic overview:

I started this work in Spring 2013. At that time car had most of the basic bolt on stuff- plus a FMIC and a GTX3071R and was tuned to around 370HP. It still has the stock ex.man, cat back exhaust, and engine internals.

My new set up has a TRD supercharger positioned in series to blow into the big turbo. The supercharger runs constantly (no clutch) but can be bypassed at any level of boost. Currently it is set to open the bypass valve at 15psi. At that point the valve (a 3” electronic throttle body) opens and the turbocharger sucks air without any restriction of the supercharger.




My purpose was quite conservative- I didn’t want more HP- but I did want to see if I could get rid of or reduce the dreaded lag of the big turbo (compared to the K04).
Like others I missed the spool time of the KO4. My goal was to do all the work myself and spend $1000. max. In the end I went to around $1100.
The project is now basically completed and I’m really satisfied with the result. The initial feel is much more like driving the K04 again- but with the big turbo power higher up. The power is linear- and the change over feels seamless (since the s/charger is not deactivated at any time). I’m running (as before the project) 24psi with 50/50 methanol- and going easy on the pedal low down!.
I’m not a “pro”, and need help from others with tuning- but I do know that this project has worked.
For those of the community who are interested I’m writing a more detailed description of the four parts of the build:

1. Positioning of the supercharger.

The systems main component is a supercharger from the 2005-2009 TC Scion. This is made by TRD (Toyota Racing Development) and is identical to the Vortech V5. It is driven by a 2’ long drive shaft. Basically I went for this because it was cheap ($400. Ebay) and a quick measure up showed to my total surprise that it would fit!!
On the Scion this s/charger had some well known problems- mostly related to bearing failure on the pulley end. The positioning on the Scion puts the shaft directly above the exhaust manifold- and it is exposed to serious and constant heat. I realized quickly that this would not be an issue on the Speed 3- since the shaft would go above the intake manifold instead and the exhaust manifold would be at the rear.
The shaft may be separated from the Supercharger body and I located and installed it separately (see my 3rd step).
First I installed the body of the supercharger on temporary brackets (a modified shelf bracket from Home Depot!)- and placed my Cobb MAF and cone filter on the outside of the supercharger intake. Without the drive shaft the s/charger was “dormant”- but to my surprise did not pose too big a restriction on the turbocharger until higher up the rev range. It was drivable- and hence I proceeded to be able to keep my car on the road and move the project forward in stages. My wife was intrigued that putting a supercharger on the Speed 3 had actually made it (temporarily) slower- and we had some laughs over this!.



2. Power steering conversion.
It was already apparent that the drive shaft would clear the Speed 3 intake manifold- and that its length was perfect. However, the stock power steering pump/hoses were an obstruction. After hours of measuring/bouncing ideas I decided to get rid of the stock P/steering. This really was a last resort at the time- since I was aware of the various issues and problems of electric hydraulic pumps- particularly (ironically) those made by Mazda! In the end I opted for a tried and tested pump- the one off the 1991-95 Toyota MR2. This has a rugged build and has a high reputation in the “Stang” community for those are who are getting rid of belt driven power steering. In the photo’s the pump is visible on the passenger side of the engine compartment- at the front of the vehicle- it has a rubber cover that obscures it a little.



I adapted the stock Speed 3 high pressure hose to couple with a 2000 Mazda Protegé hose which had the correct end fitting. It now appears that the Protégé hose can be used on its own without modding the Speed 3 one. I did not use the controller/sensor set up of the MR2- so the pump runs all the time and requires heavy duty wiring with a 75amp solenoid of off the Speed 3 ignition.

In hindsight having now completed this work and looked carefully I see that it may still be possible to retain the stock Speed 3 steering pump- and reposition it deeper under the supercharger pulley on modified brackets. It looks very tight however. I may have a go later on as really wanted to keep the original pump.
With the steering converted to 12 volt hydraulic I again paused work and drove the vehicle for a couple of months. The steering felt good- but with a constant noise (normal) from the hydraulic pump- which could however be easily drowned by the stereo.

3. Drive shaft position

With the stock p/steering gone- there is a nice space for the drive shaft- plus there are a number of strong fixing points exposed. I fabricated two separate heavy duty brackets at this stage- one for the s/charger unit, and one for the drive shaft pulley housing. All the metal came off the shelf from Home Depot. This was the most time consuming and tedious part of the whole thing. It took this amateur fabricator about five days in the garage to get the brackets tacked up, welded and drilled.
All of the fixing points for the brackets are existing bolt holes on the Speed 3. It took some thoughtfulness, but I was able to place the supercharger without cutting/modding its Scion brackets in any way. I did this in case of failure and the need to resell the supercharger.




While some stock components can be retained in this conversion- the stock (or aftermarket) top mounted intercooler cannot. There is insufficient room- and probably insufficient cooling. The stock air conditioning hoses remain in place- but are adjusted- with the main rubber hose going over the top of the s/charger drive shaft.
I used the stock Scion supercharger pulley which is rated at 7psi. They are available at up to 14 psi (seemed risky to go higher). The pulley has one groove more than the Speed 3 belt system- but it fits well and is adjusted by placing shims behind it for exact positioning.
I was delighted to find that Dayco- has an online measurement tool for their belts- as opposed to just going by vehicle type .Hence the new belt came straight off the shelf at Autozone for $28. The new belt is about 8” longer than stock one.
Since the supercharger was now turning- I needed to provide its lubrication. I just put a “T” adaptor on the Speed 3 oil pressure sensor-(above the oil filter housing) for a source of oil. Currently I’m draining the oil from the supercharger with a hose running directly into the stock dipstick pipe holder as a return- since I’m not keen on drilling the Speed 3 oil sump -which is the process on the TC Scion.


4. Air intake and bypass system.

The entire stock/aftermarket intake system on the Speed 3 (filter/short ram/TIP etc) needs to be removed- and the only reusable parts will be an individual MAF housing and a cone filter if you have them. Basically the new intake is a “one off”. I made mine in 3” aluminum pipe (I love siliconeintakes.com for all intake modding- not the cheapest- but everything in one place).
The bypass valve was a little tricky- and I experimented with a couple of designs including 12v water/gas valves which are cheap and air tight but the bore was too small. The only type that would give a full 3” flow were throttle bodies.
I opted for an electronic throttle body off a 2012 F150/Mustang- readily available on ebay for under $50. It’s also possible to use manual throttle bodies with an actuator moved by boost pressure- but this involves more work.
The cool thing with an electronic TB is that it can be activated by a boost/RPM/Window switch etc. I modded mine so that it closed all the way and also converted the 12 volt supply to 5 volts ($10 DC reducer off ebay) as I discovered that the 12v was proving very hard on the internal plastic gear ring in the throttle body- since it opens and closes “hard” when not computer controlled- as it is designed to be when in normal service.




I used a 3” aluminum blow off valve T pipe on the intake side of the Supercharger as a return port for the re-circulated air (I’m not keen on venting to atmosphere) - and then I cut the side of this T pipe and mated it with a Spectre MAF adaptor plate (Pepboys) - thus making a flange for the F150 throttle body. A local shop did the welding on the intake pipe and flange adaptor for $50.
I opted for the simple approach on this design, trying to keep as much stock as I could however in the end the need for space meant that the battery had to go to the spare wheel well in the back of the vehicle and I modded a set of heavy duty jump leads for the new power supply.





I used a Spectre flexible 3”hose to connect from the T pipe/bypass flange on the supercharger to my Cobb MAF and filter. I was reluctant to use the flexible hose- but space was really lacking by the end of the project- and this has done good service so far.
The Cobb has been with me for my four years of modifying this car. It probably is undersize for this application- but it has always held a tune so well and I like its solid design. Why get rid of something that works so well?.
Also, as prior to this conversion I’m still running 50/50 Methanol on two number 3 nozzles mounted just before the Speed 3 throttle body.


Conclusion. January 2014

So………...VERY pleased with the results so far. It feels very different to the GTX3071 on its own- with way more pull lower down the rpm range. Plus I’m surprised how linear and smooth the acceleration is. Currently it is still on the same tune (by my friend Alan Jackson of Edge Autosport) from when I only had the GTX3071 turbocharger. Alan and I hope to fine tune this with the Cobb AP in the coming months.
I’m still using my trusty Hallman MBC- and it may be that I’m forced to go for a EBCS so as to control the power lower down. Not sure yet- but I think it will be difficult with the Hallman to get WOT (wide open throttle) readings necessary for tuning because of the increased wheel spin.

For those of you who are more techy on this stuff (I’m not!) and have read up on the 1980’s Lancia Delta etc, the boost pressure is not compounded/multiplied in this particular project- since the TRD supercharger is just a centrifugal one- and not a displacement pump- like an Eaton type. Infact- I’m not exactly sure what the technical effect is (I know that sound hilarious!) on the pressure between the s/charger and the turbo and have not measured the psi between the two. It must however at least reduce the “differential” load on the GTX3071 turbo - making it easier to spool. All I know is that it seems to work really well.
This was a lot of work for me- and the first time I’d attempted such a thing. I did it over a 7 month period in my spare time. The car is a daily driver (you’ll note the Miata 16’ wheels and regular tires- my wife didn’t like the low profiles!!)- So I decided to divide up the project in such a way (four parts) that the car remained drivable- and in fact was only off the road during the week of fabricating the brackets.

I’m not advocating for this conversion and don’t intend to do a more detailed description. It was an idea that intrigued me after reading the Wikipedia article on the Lancia Delta- and I had no certain evidence that it would even work on the Speed 3 and I had no Mazda pattern to follow. It brought me a lot of pleasure to do something different and pioneering and also the results brought much satisfaction. Hope that this write up is of interest to fellow enthusiasts.




Thanks to Alan Jackson from Edge Autosports for his idea bouncing and for putting this article on the forum.
I’ll be glad to chat to any enthusiasts at tntclark@hotmail.com.


Tim Clark. Tyler TX
Unfortunately Tim is currently out of meth but once he gets some more in we will be doing some tuning and I will post up the logs and vdyno's so everyone can see whats going on.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 04:47 PM   #2
 
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Badass project, glad to see a finished setup and not just an idea..

Kudos to him for thinking outside the box
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 Old 01-07-2014, 04:51 PM   #3
 
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I mess the meth part like he is a druggy.
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Velocity Red Mica 06 Speed6 (ricer) #834

Some shitty; s300sx fmw turbo, home made fmic setup, home made 4" Intake, 3.5 blowthrough maf, home made downpipe, poorly self tuned. More motor mounts then necessary.

Gay and coated white enkei rpf1s with stupid 245/45 tires. Pointless drilled and slotted rotors. Clunky coilovers. Ricer lips and lights.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 04:52 PM   #4
 
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Legit build. Have his ass join.

sent from my peepee
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1993 Red Na6
Some suspension modz yo

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 Old 01-07-2014, 04:52 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by madspd6 View Post
I mess the meth part like he is a druggy.
How do you think he came up with the idea? Lol!
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 Old 01-07-2014, 04:53 PM   #6
 
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Nicely executed and documented.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 04:53 PM   #7
 
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@JacksonMS30;

sweet jesus, this dude followed me out HWY 31 about two months ago and gave me his card and told me about the meets at Rocket Fizz.

We chatted for a bit via text but was never able to make it out and meet him in person, he had told me about this project then but didn't know what to think about it.

I now need to see this car in person, going to have to be on the lookout for it around Tyler.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 04:56 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by swsmailman View Post
@JacksonMS30;

sweet jesus, this dude followed me out HWY 31 about two months ago and gave me his card and told me about the meets at Rocket Fizz.

We chatted for a bit via text but was never able to make it out and meet him in person, he had told me about this project then but didn't know what to think about it.

I now need to see this car in person, going to have to be on the lookout for it around Tyler.
Hahaha!! He told me about that! I though he may have been talking about you. Yeah Tim seems to be in the habit of stalking other MS3 owners.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 05:32 PM   #9
 
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Can we see a vid of this thing while you driving?
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 Old 01-07-2014, 05:37 PM   #10
 
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Saw this beast with @JacksonMS30; 2 Saturdays ago. I was atounded at how cleanly it came out! Tim is the nicest guy also. Incredible build!
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 Old 01-07-2014, 05:40 PM   #11
 
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Wow, that's impressive!!! I love the fact he did it under $1100.00

Brraavvvvoooo

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 Old 01-07-2014, 05:40 PM   #12
 
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I would have never of thought of doing this. I have one of those superchargers in my garage. Lol.

Definitely points on being original! I would like to see some vids of it running down the road!
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 Old 01-07-2014, 05:45 PM   #13
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@kmac; and I have spoken about this in the past.
Happy to see it become a reality.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 05:46 PM   #14
 
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Wow, this is 50 shades of awesome. Can't wait to see what's up when he's done tuning!
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 Old 01-07-2014, 05:49 PM   #15
 
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Interesting build. Needs to be cleaned up a little, but awesome work!


Tappin it
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 Old 01-07-2014, 06:02 PM   #16
 
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Just.....


Wow....

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 Old 01-07-2014, 06:12 PM   #17
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Nice work but doesn't putting scion parts on ms3 make it gay?
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 Old 01-07-2014, 06:32 PM   #18
 
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Would have loved something like this on my 35R lol where the hell were you before i parted out and got a stang a few months ago!! ... just kidding, i love my stang, but this is damn cool.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 06:34 PM   #19
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First, awesome build/idea.

Second, this build NEEDS built motor. It would be fun to see this thing pushed hard.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 06:44 PM   #20
 
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This would be easier for genpu since it doesn't have a p/s pump
In b4 a bunch of twin charged disi's lol
Nice build!
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 Old 01-07-2014, 07:05 PM   #21
 
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Damn, that's awesome! Pretty clean for a home depot racing build too
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 Old 01-07-2014, 07:30 PM   #22
 
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Would be awesome for autox. Major kudos.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 07:47 PM   #23
 
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By no means is the setup optimal....a screw type blower used in conjunction with turbo would be best, since a blower boosts linearly instead of exponentially like a centrifugal blower....but it's one of a kind and pretty neat.
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 Old 01-07-2014, 08:08 PM   #24
 
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holy fuck. props to him, that's a brave and awesome Idea. I would love to see a video and hear how this thing sounds!
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 Old 01-07-2014, 08:10 PM   #25
 
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jesus, incredible build!!
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 Old 01-07-2014, 08:25 PM   #26
 
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+1 for video of this build in action!
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 Old 01-08-2014, 12:16 AM   #27
 
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Awesome stuff would love to see how the power is put down on a dyno.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 12:40 AM   #28
 
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I'd love to hear what it sounds like, super charger combined with GTX .
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 Old 01-08-2014, 01:03 AM   #29
 
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I was seriously considering trying this before I decided to ditch the Speed3. Glad someone did it.

This would be much easier to pull off on the Gen 2's and i'm hoping more do it.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 01:56 AM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by shaneski View Post
I'd love to hear what it sounds like, super charger combined with GTX .

If it sounds anything like the car that gave him the inspiration to do the project then it's badass.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 01:58 AM   #31
 
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This is awesome..

could you imagine if this wasn't DONE/WORKING and he joined the forum asking questions and shit about this build idea LOLOL that would've been an entertaining thread, and yet he did it by himself..
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 Old 01-08-2014, 02:55 AM   #32
 
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I've seen similar setups on other cars but didn't expect it to show up on a MS3. Looks great and I bet it sounds good to. I would love to see a Dyno pull for this car.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 03:31 AM   #33
 
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This is too cool. Something ive always wanted to do to a car but never eally thought about it much. This would be pretty awesome on a big turbo car...and would be an absolute monster on a road course.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 04:20 AM   #34
 
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Gawd I want to see a video and hear what that car sounds like.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 05:04 AM   #35

 
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Awesomeness right here
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 Old 01-08-2014, 06:40 AM   #36
 
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Originally Posted by 86AmishMs3 View Post
By no means is the setup optimal....a screw type blower used in conjunction with turbo would be best, since a blower boosts linearly instead of exponentially like a centrifugal blower....but it's one of a kind and pretty neat.
I spent a lot of time looking at the old Cobalt SS blowers lol but fabbing an intake manifold for it as well as brackets and plumbing shot that idea down pretty damn quick. Would still be awesome to see though.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 06:41 AM   #37
 
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This gives me very bad ideas.
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 Old 01-08-2014, 07:04 AM   #38
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I was ready to hate but he did a very good job thinking and planning before executing.

I'm interested in the electric power steering mainly to reduce parasitic drag on the drive system.

I also like how he's using the throttle body to bypass the blower for higher boost settings. Seems like he'd benefit from a shorter intake tract, if it were somehow possible......at least less plumbing involved.

I could see this being really good on a huge turbo speed6...but for a speed3 it'd more or less aid low end wheelspin!
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 Old 01-08-2014, 07:54 AM   #39
 
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Originally Posted by gingermike View Post
I was ready to hate but he did a very good job thinking and planning before executing.

I'm interested in the electric power steering mainly to reduce parasitic drag on the drive system.

I also like how he's using the throttle body to bypass the blower for higher boost settings. Seems like he'd benefit from a shorter intake tract, if it were somehow possible......at least less plumbing involved.

I could see this being really good on a huge turbo speed6...but for a speed3 it'd more or less aid low end wheelspin!

I'd personally look into using a Pu power steering setup over that pump if I was going to get rid of the mechanical pump.


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 Old 01-08-2014, 08:02 AM   #40
 
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Originally Posted by silvapain View Post
I'd personally look into using a Pu power steering setup over that pump if I was going to get rid of the mechanical pump.


Tappin it
I remember talking to him about this but I don't remember the reason why he didn't do it. I know he looked into it though. May have just not been cost affective for the budget he was going for.
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