So, about the new Corksport turbo...

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by shamie Wouldn't timing have to be significantly off for a 50whp/80wtq difference? I mean that would have to be 10-20 degrees off wouldn't it?

At the ~350whp level, it wouldn't even need to be off by a full tooth on the crank to cost that much power.

This is a pic of my car a couple years back. Overall I had slipped less than one tooth on the crank and this cost me over 100whp/tq at the ~650 level.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...d-imag0906.jpg

[BLKSTIG]

so who is making serious power on this turbo?

[shadesofgray19]

Originally Posted by BLKSTIG so who is making serious power on this turbo?

Nobody. I haven't seen anyone state that they pushed over 22-23 psi with this turbo yet. The larger A/R and billet wheel should be capable of 26 or maybe 28 psi if fully bolted with meth helping to fuel a maxed out factory system.

[BLKSTIG]

Maybe we will see some results of something like that soon. Bnr s3 still reigning supreme until then

[Awal]

Originally Posted by BLKSTIG so who is making serious power on this turbo?

I know that MOST will know what you mean by 'serious power', but please add some clarification as to what you think 'serious power' is. I think a few people have already hit the high 300s in HP and TQ.. give it time, I'm sure the BNR took more than 1 month to get anywhere close to the max #s people are running comfortably.

I see self tuners hitting 350/350ish with the CS drop in already.. Sorry I don't have links but check any of the CS turbo reviews and you'll come across lots of solid results (for 2-3 months beta, 1 month retail testing).. alot of the betas who actually posted where on stock intakes and DPs w/out meth.. lol, hardly a good comparison for people running the BNR fully bolted with 3.5 SRI/TIPs and full catless TBEs.

Again, what is serious?

Originally Posted by BLKSTIG Maybe we will see some results of something like that soon. Bnr s3 still reigning supreme until then

For a product that has been out as long as the BNR it would be utterly baffling if people with the CS matched and surpassed the BNR's #s within 1-3 month, considering most etuner turn around times..

[BLKSTIG]

Maxing it out. I understand that serious power is subjective. I guess I should have asked if anyone has maxed out the turbo instead

[shadesofgray19]

I thought CS was claiming this was a 450 whp turbo on an ms3. Serious power would be over 430 whp on MS3 or 400 awhp on MS6. I think there are several BNR out there that claim this.

Also would like to see better spool than what has been shown. Really want to see what the turbo can do at high boost and when it turns into a flame thrower.

[Awal]

Originally Posted by BLKSTIG Maxing it out. I understand that serious power is subjective. I guess I should have asked if anyone has maxed out the turbo instead

fair enough, from what I've been seeing/reading no one has truly maxed it out yet. The only reason I have a problem with people comparing the 2 turbos is that the BNR has had SOOOOO much more real word testing/tuning time. Also, CS seemed to give most of the Betas out to people with quite restrictive SRI/TIP/TBE setups, I know a few betas were guys with all the big bolt-ons but they seem to be the only ones not fulfilling their part of beta testing (providing feedback to the community). I know a lot of the close to stock guys are already taking the steps to max this puppy out, but it's not going to happen overnight.

I know I want to know, need to know, but I am also realistic in terms of the advantage BNR has in pure tuning time over the CS offering, it's very very substantial..

Originally Posted by shadesofgray19 I thought CS was claiming this was a 450 whp turbo on an ms3. Serious power would be over 430 whp on MS3 or 400 awhp on MS6. I think there are several BNR out there that claim this. Also would like to see better spool than what has been shown. Really want to see what the turbo can do at high boost and when it turns into a flame thrower.

TY for providing an actual number. that will help me look for the #s to meet/beat.

I still think actual practical tuning time is the big equalizer here, I can guarantee you NO ONE was making 400+ hp on the BNR in the 1st 1 month of retail sales.. Please prove me wrong if I am..

[eat-sleep-speed]

I know that correcting for altitude is probably "cheating" or not going to give quite the raw numbers that people want to see, But I am on like a quick 3rd revision of a self tune on a mix of like E30 fuel and I am already seeing numbers like this:

It should be about as correct for Baro pressure as it can be at 4400 feet elevation..

I still have a dinky CS intake that I am maxing out, with just a catless downpipe and cpe TMIC.. I am only seeing a steady 22 PSI on this tune and like 13-14* timing at redline, so I'm sure there could be much more in it. Sadly, I am not comfortable with my abilities to really push a tune, especially without a real dyno, so I may be sticking to around this kind of power for a while.

I am really excited to start seeing bigger numbers like you guys are saying. 400+ seems quite doable especially when CS claimed the 450 being possible. Time will tell, and we are still definitely in infancy stages of the product as far as testing and pushing the limits.

[Realgib3]

You guys are acting like tuners have to spend months figuring out how to make power on turbo x vs new turbo y... It's not black magic, a turbo is a turbo.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 You guys are acting like tuners have to spend months figuring out how to make power on turbo x vs new turbo y... It's not black magic, a turbo is a turbo.

I wasnt sure if i was going to be stepping on toes to say this ... obviously i always take precautions seeing how a new turbo builds boost (not to brag, but i've tuned about 5-6 different BTs, so i feel i have some ground to say this), responds to changes in WGDC etc, but once you have the basics down, making power is making power ...

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Realgib3 You guys are acting like tuners have to spend months figuring out how to make power on turbo x vs new turbo y... It's not black magic, a turbo is a turbo.

I think its more of an etune turnaround time issue. Seems like the guys with the turbo who are etuning are slow to get logs etc. The guys self tuning appear to not be after absolute power. With this size turbo I would expect someone trying to max it out would have a forged block. By my count there are only two guys with forged blocks and cs turbos.

Need someone willing to push this puppy first.

[Raider]

I am not one of the 500 hp built motor guys, but I know I could be a lot further in my tune if I took logs as soon as I got a MAP. But not totally possible for me.

[L0k1]

Originally Posted by shadesofgray19 Nobody. I haven't seen anyone state that they pushed over 22-23 psi with this turbo yet. The larger A/R and billet wheel should be capable of 26 or maybe 28 psi if fully bolted with meth helping to fuel a maxed out factory system.

I am at a level 24 psi on the turbo. We tried for 25 but my TMIC and intake mani are choking me back.

11430259_486574801500903_5040847320118337759_n.jpg

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny I think its more of an etune turnaround time issue. Seems like the guys with the turbo who are etuning are slow to get logs etc. The guys self tuning appear to not be after absolute power. With this size turbo I would expect someone trying to max it out would have a forged block. By my count there are only two guys with forged blocks and cs turbos. Need someone willing to push this puppy first.

Notice that BNR went straight to Freek and a built/JMF/meth car to test the S4. CS should've spent a little bit up front to sponsor this same scenario for the release or even pre-release IMO. The platform isn't where it was when the S3 first released, and it's pretty much the B4TB direct competitor. Data whores need to know!

[maddocx240]

The best I've seen for the cs turbo is a car tuned by nishan that made 362 on 91 and e85 mix on an ms3

[Chriss]

Originally Posted by L0k1 I am at a level 24 psi on the turbo. We tried for 25 but my TMIC and intake mani are choking me back.

I have almost the same mods (except 3" intake) and I would be happy to hit those numbers



Edit : Did you monitored your IDC ?What was the results?

[Awal]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny I think its more of an etune turnaround time issue. Seems like the guys with the turbo who are etuning are slow to get logs etc. The guys self tuning appear to not be after absolute power. With this size turbo I would expect someone trying to max it out would have a forged block. By my count there are only two guys with forged blocks and cs turbos. Need someone willing to push this puppy first.

This, this, this and this X 10...

After talking to a lot of people who have their rides/modz etuned, the average time from 1st datalogs to final tune is about 6-8 weeks. It's far from black magic, and yes, tuners used to tuning stock, LBTs, and full BTs, can get a turbo dialed well in person (key phrase) in a very short time (1-2 week tops).

A lot of the people who have gotten BNRs I notice ALREADY have their intake @ 3.5", are on W/M and an upgraded TMIC or a FMIC plus a fully catless TBE. That's a big difference (in time/patience) over most of the CS turbo beta testers or new CS turbo buyers starting with a stock-3" intake (a lot of them are in the process of going to a 3.5 SRI/TIP and catted or catless DP-TBE right now) and a stock DP/TP/CBE and a stock MAP sensor and sometimes even a stock EBC and BPV. Add all the back and forth datalog/email turn-around time of e-tuning through each of those progressions and all of a sudden common sense dictates that it will take about 1-2 months MINIMUM of install/tuning time to increase the power safely and things all of a sudden go from 'yo bro, tuning turbos should be automatic or a week long process' to a 'realistic' give people 1-2 months (minimum) to get their pre-TBody and post-turbo flow bolt-ons installed and safely tuned..

It's no secret I love CS, but I am not blind to common sense, and common sense dictates that nobody (who is posting results here on MSF) is going to be maxing this puppy out overnight. If you think that it's possible to do just because there are tuners who know what they are doing with multiple BNR LBTs or BTs doesn't mean they can just blindly tune a completely new LBT turbo into peak and perfect power for every setup.


Looking at most of the flow mods with other BNR users compared to what most CS drop-in turbo buyers/testers are using there are HUGE differences, which at this point in time, makes it like comparing apples to oranges..

Originally Posted by Realgib3 You guys are acting like tuners have to spend months figuring out how to make power on turbo x vs new turbo y... It's not black magic, a turbo is a turbo.

How long did it take for tuners to max out the BNR V1 or V2 on various generations, with various amounts of mods, in different conditions? 2 weeks? I very highly doubt it. Sure there may be some basic similarities between all bigger turbos, but when it comes to finding the sweet spots on a multitude of different setups I bet the stable max power number took at least 3-4 months, at the very minimum..

[nas711]

And this is why I got my corky traditional ol roller dynod. 1-2 day turn around. More money, sure. But time is money for me. $250 for a tune...im happy to pay for that turn around.

[Awal]

Originally Posted by nas711 And this is why I got my corky traditional ol roller dynod. 1-2 day turn around. More money, sure. But time is money for me. $250 for a tune...im happy to pay for that turn around.

Add in a real dyno or an in person tune and you cut your tuning time by probably 90%. but that is only for your car and mods, not for everyone's, and is probably a viable option for maybe 1 outa every 10 people who upgrade to a LBT.

In a dyno tune or in person tune you may find that your are maxing out some of your flow components, then it takes time to upgrade and retune..

The moral of the story, even with all the accumulated knowledge that we have for this platform and turbo upgrades, is that each vehicle is different, and so is each tuner.. 1 month is not much time overall when you consider most people are tuning via email or self tuning for a good DD, not peak HP..

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by Awal This, this, this and this X 10... After talking to a lot of people who have their rides/modz etuned, the average time from 1st datalogs to final tune is about 6-8 weeks. It's far from black magic, and yes, tuners used to tuning stock, LBTs, and full BTs, can get a turbo dialed well in person (key phrase) in a very short time (1-2 week tops). A lot of the people who have gotten BNRs I notice ALREADY have their intake @ 3.5", are on W/M and an upgraded TMIC or a FMIC plus a fully catless TBE. That's a big difference (in time/patience) over most of the CS turbo beta testers or new CS turbo buyers starting with a stock-3" intake (a lot of them are in the process of going to a 3.5 SRI/TIP and catted or catless DP-TBE right now) and a stock DP/TP/CBE and a stock MAP sensor and sometimes even a stock EBC and BPV. Add all the back and forth datalog/email turn-around time of e-tuning through each of those progressions and all of a sudden common sense dictates that it will take about 1-2 months MINIMUM of install/tuning time to increase the power safely and things all of a sudden go from 'yo bro, tuning turbos should be automatic or a week long process' to a 'realistic' give people 1-2 months (minimum) to get their pre-TBody and post-turbo flow bolt-ons installed and safely tuned.. It's no secret I love CS, but I am not blind to common sense, and common sense dictates that nobody (who is posting results here on MSF) is going to be maxing this puppy out overnight. If you think that it's possible to do just because there are tuners who know what they are doing with multiple BNR LBTs or BTs doesn't mean they can just blindly tune a completely new LBT turbo into peak and perfect power for every setup. Looking at most of the flow mods with other BNR users compared to what most CS drop-in turbo buyers/testers are using there are HUGE differences, which at this point in time, makes it like comparing apples to oranges.. How long did it take for tuners to max out the BNR V1 or V2 on various generations, with various amounts of mods, in different conditions? 2 weeks? I very highly doubt it. Sure there may be some basic similarities between all bigger turbos, but when it comes to finding the sweet spots on a multitude of different setups I bet the stable max power number took at least 3-4 months, at the very minimum..

You're talking about a lot of different things here at this point.

On the topic of people with the new CS turbo having otherwise shitty setups, thus not allowing the turbo to shine, that seems to be true, though there are MANY people running shitty setups with BNR's too and they're not making "maxed out" power on that turbo either.

On the topic of it taking longer to find "sweet spots" for the turbo, that's just not how it works.

[Awal]

Fair enough, sweetspot is the wrong term. more like there hasn't been anyone in a fully safespot (with current mods) to wring every last drop of power out. I have been reading and watching every beta test thread and CS turbo review thread and pretty much everyone is still in the progression stage.

It's been a lot of, "maxing out SRI/TIP now, gotta upgrade to a bigger intake" then 1-4 weeks later that's installed-tuned and then it's "going to an actual aftermarket DP", maybe catless, then it will be EBC, 3 bar map, meth, e85, a race pipe, full catless TBE, maybe a better IC, better bpv then some time finding/fixing an issue or 2, in whichever combination of orders.

Yes there are plenty of BNRs in mild setups, but a lot are in some form of progression themselves. All of this hinges on money, including the costs of a good tuners services, it is a budget turbo after all, most buyers/user have limited funds.


Anyways, maybe I'm completely wrong to expect it to take a few months to see someone with a 3.5 SRI/TIP, TMIC+W/M or good FMIC, full catless TBE, e85 and all the other kit to max out the turbo, but I don't think so because I don't see anyone starting with all or most of this stuff except I think 1 tester.

Average turn around right now for a lot of etuners from 1st logs to final revision on each new setup is around 4-6 weeks unless you have a good tuner as a personal friend, cough-Raider-cough..

All that is what I'm getting out of watching and reading this whole process/progression.

[Raider]

You can get a tune from Rob at hypnotic if you want. I am not his only client.

[Awal]

Originally Posted by Raider You can get a tune from Rob at hypnotic if you want. I am not his only client.

I know rob does a lot of great tuning thru hypnotic, I was just busting your balls a lil bit. I was also trying to make the point that usual turn-around time isn't quite as fast as we see in your thread. Which is totally understandable, if I was an etuner on this site and knew you personally along with knowing how much you do here I'd hook you up with some priority tuning.

carry on.

[Raider]

Purely based on sexual favors, my man.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Raider You can get a tune from Rob at hypnotic if you want. I am not his only client.

still not a vendor............................................ ...

[Raider]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny still not a vendor............................................ ...

Many who should be are not.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Raider Many who should be are not.

Wait, what?


Sent from my iPhone 6

[Raider]

You know what I mean.

[Crarrs]

What about Dantes? I hear that guy can get you tune revisions on a 10 minute turnaround.

[Chriss]

Awal, I agree
We need more time to see the true power of the little turbo and the 450whp expected...

[tbcota25]

Rob is the man


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

[acousticdefbot]

i haven't tuned with him. he's easily got the coolest name tho. and you can do neat things with it.

[my2k13speed3]

Just saw this posted on Facebook by Purple Drank... 382/350 with 3" TBE, COBB intake, FMIC, 3 bar map sensor and a 3 port ebcs. With a 4 gallon e85 mix @ 23 psi

Edit: CS Turbo

[L0k1]

A stock sized cobb intake?

[memin]

Damn!!that is some good # for a cobb intake and no meth

[my2k13speed3]

Originally Posted by L0k1 A stock sized cobb intake?

COBB only makes stock sized intakes as far as I know

[L0k1]

Thats crazy. I want to get on a dynojet and see what I make.

[my2k13speed3]

This turbo is becoming more and more appealing to me by the day... I can use a stock sized CARB legal intake and push numbers like that!

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by my2k13speed3 This turbo is becoming more and more appealing to me by the day... I can use a stock sized CARB legal intake and push numbers like that!

It would be interesting to see a log from that pull and see what MAF voltage was being hit.

I dont mean to come across as a naysayer, i just like to approach all things with a healthy dose of skepticism Im happy to admit i was "wrong" when proven so.