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 Old 09-20-2008, 02:51 PM   #1
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Default Big turbo kit, build one or not?

We are getting ready to pull the SST off the car and when we do this we are not sure what to do. Either sell the car or turn it into a track car. Some one called me and asked if we could do a T3 flanged manifold with external gate (38mm or 44mm), with down pipe and dump tube.

This got me thinking.... has anyone built a dump tube, external gate, T3 flanged manifold (tubular), down pipe kit for the MS3. I know there are a ton of manifolds out there, only 2 kits produced that I can find and both are internal gated units.

I guess what we would be looking at is getting the manifold, DP, dump tube, WG and turbo in one kit. There would be several options for the turbo since its based on a T3 flange and we would be building CAI or SRI's for this set up to make it "complete".

Now this wouldn't be for those wanting to make 300 ish WHP (we have the SST for that). This would be for those that wanted to make over 400 WHP and for those that have or want built motors. This would be for those that want a "FAST" MS3 and not some bandaid of a turbo kit on the car (adapter to go from turbo to stock DP just looks to be a leak to me).

The manifolds would be 1/2 thick flanged at the head (T372 to T352 steel), 14 gauge stainless steel tube (this is wall thickness), 3/8 thick stainless steel T3 flange and 3/8 thick 38 or 44mm WG flanges. Pretty much top dollar stuff for pricing that should land around moderate to cheap.

All the tubing used would be stainless steel with most of the flanges being stainless as well. I would like to see the kit fall into the $1900 to $2600 range.

We are talking complete kit with options for the intake. Let me know if this peaks your interests at all because we have the tools now to make tubular manifolds.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 04:19 AM   #2
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 Old 09-21-2008, 06:13 AM   #3
 
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 Old 09-21-2008, 06:34 AM   #4
 
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to be honest, this isnt even on my radar today, but depending where I take my car in the next 12 mos, I could be quite interested
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 Old 09-21-2008, 06:43 AM   #5
 
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Creative Performance (carlos in puerto rico) has built a handfull of tubular manifolds with external gates and downpipes for the ms6 and ms3. A few members on the forums are running it if im not mistaken.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 10:22 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by jhershorin View Post
Creative Performance (carlos in puerto rico) has built a handfull of tubular manifolds with external gates and downpipes for the ms6 and ms3. A few members on the forums are running it if im not mistaken.
Yes but are they complete kits with dump tube, turbo and lines? This is what I am getting at. I know there are parts to kits out there but is there a complete "kit". I have also seen his prices, I suspect that we could cut around $200 out of just a DP and manifold based off his prices. Our manifolds would be single piece tube from manifold to flange, not pieced together like the other guys.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 11:54 AM   #7
 
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Was just trying to help. He does offer complete stuff. You should give him a call to talk to him. You guys may be able to work something out. He is in PR and looking to move to the mainland states. I wasn't trying to be an ass through my post - just shed light and show you what has been put out in case you werent aware.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 12:50 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jhershorin View Post
Was just trying to help. He does offer complete stuff. You should give him a call to talk to him. You guys may be able to work something out. He is in PR and looking to move to the mainland states. I wasn't trying to be an ass through my post - just shed light and show you what has been put out in case you werent aware.
Understood, I just wanted to also make sure that you knew the differences between the kits. I want to make our manifold prices under the PG manifold price and under the DNP price. If we can do that then we should be albe to make a very affordable kit.

Last thing, the guy from PR is not a supporting vendor. So I hope that the admin is keep the parts selling in check to people that have not upped there game to "vendor" status.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:01 PM   #9
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i don't see the PR guy selling here so whats the problem?
some one was only trying to show you more options that are alredy made

Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
Understood, I just wanted to also make sure that you knew the differences between the kits. I want to make our manifold prices under the PG manifold price and under the DNP price. If we can do that then we should be albe to make a very affordable kit.

Last thing, the guy from PR is not a supporting vendor. So I hope that the admin is keep the parts selling in check to people that have not upped there game to "vendor" status.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by MPS View Post
i don't see the PR guy selling here so whats the problem?
some one was only trying to show you more options that are alredy made
Wow, I was just stating that because there is a thread of his or someone else that is talking about his manifolds. I have not reported the thread because it was a nice option for those that wanted it. I know that there are options out there, just as I was trying to point out that we would be willing to make some thing that is "complete". I didn't know that this "guy" was making complete kits. There was no reason to intend other wise and if I offended applogies.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:09 PM   #11
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as long as its not the guy from PR (Creative Performance) him self i don't see a problem with posting other product on the site
just giving the ppl more options
and letting them know what's out there for our cars
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:14 PM   #12
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Make a kit wth some turbo options besides GT series turbos to keep the costs down. SRT-4 kits are dirt cheap but give you everything ours cost the same price but give a you a turbo and some fucking lines. Also I don't know how people are fitting dump tubes on this car though the routing for it looks hard as hell unless you mount the waste gate low under the car and have a really short dump pipe.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:19 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Darksun280 View Post
Make a kit wth some turbo options besides GT series turbos to keep the costs down. SRT-4 kits are dirt cheap but give you everything ours cost the same price but give a you a turbo and some fucking lines. Also I don't know how people are fitting dump tubes on this car though the routing for it looks hard as hell unless you mount the waste gate low under the car and have a really short dump pipe.
You get what I am shooting for. A "kit" with non DBB turbos is what we had in mind. You could upgrade to a great GT series turbo if you wanted to so that will be in the options.

The WGA is not that hard to figure out. We have mounted one on a stock manifold and built the dump tube to run down right next to the exhaust down pipe. Trust me there is more room on the MS3 then there was on the SRT4.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:24 PM   #14
 
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I would be interested in the future.
For a while I'll probably be going a SST turbo, then after I build the engine, I'll want something a little bigger. As long as you dont need people who want this now, I'd be interested in something like this in the future.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:24 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by MPS View Post
as long as its not the guy from PR (Creative Performance) him self i don't see a problem with posting other product on the site
just giving the ppl more options
and letting them know what's out there for our cars
Hence why I have not reported the post.

I guess you have to see it from my point or all the vendors points. If you want to have a great vendor group to pull from but you have "this guy" selling parts via PM's or emails how many parts are the vendors going to sell of this part?

Options are great, but like what has happened on other sites... to much side selling will cause all the vendors with MS3's that are personally owned to leave. You want these vendors on here or other sites. These are the people that build and work on the car. I mean how much help are you going to get from someone that doens't even own the car or can tell you what is needed for it. I hear this all the time with the Caliber SRT4. We have local shops trying to sell flash tunes for it when there are not even a PCM upgrades ready for it yet. That is all I am getting at, support the vendors that want to make parts for your car or don't. The only people that end up loosing are those that wanted the parts.... that would be you the customer.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:24 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
You get what I am shooting for. A "kit" with non DBB turbos is what we had in mind. You could upgrade to a great GT series turbo if you wanted to so that will be in the options.

The WGA is not that hard to figure out. We have mounted one on a stock manifold and built the dump tube to run down right next to the exhaust down pipe. Trust me there is more room on the MS3 then there was on the SRT4.
Glad to hear it. All I want is manifold with external dump. Non DBB series turbo thats. I'm sure "FULL" kits will be in the 2500 range and group buys will drop the prices even more. Hell give me a 50 trim with a 63 a/r I'll spool that bitch right up lol. ATP kits sucks balls in my opinion and the MS3 scene is just waiting for ANY other options even if its not really better which is a shame...
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:25 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by numbnuts22715 View Post
I would be interested in the future.
For a while I'll probably be going a SST turbo, then after I build the engine, I'll want something a little bigger. As long as you dont need people who want this now, I'd be interested in something like this in the future.
This is all I am looking for, intrest in the product so we can decide weather or not to start the build process.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:28 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Darksun280 View Post
Glad to hear it. All I want is manifold with external dump. Non DBB series turbo thats. I'm sure "FULL" kits will be in the 2500 range and group buys will drop the prices even more. Hell give me a 50 trim with a 63 a/r I'll spool that bitch right up lol. ATP kits sucks balls in my opinion and the MS3 scene is just waiting for ANY other options even if its not really better which is a shame...
That is what I don't understand, why the delays in getting good parts up and running for the car (not that I have room to talk). You would figure with the companies that are out there you should have several that are building or getting ready for the huge request that is going to be happening here soon for the car. This is why I have gained an intrest in the car again... well not only that but there are talking about a time attack series here local next year the MS3 would own all if properly set up.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 01:30 PM   #19
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A company here by me wanted to make a kit for the car but I have to forge up before I throw a big turbo on here so I figure I have time.
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 Old 09-21-2008, 08:52 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Darksun280 View Post
A company here by me wanted to make a kit for the car but I have to forge up before I throw a big turbo on here so I figure I have time.
Sounds good. I hope to be offering forged kits here very soon.
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 Old 09-24-2008, 05:13 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
We are getting ready to pull the SST off the car and when we do this we are not sure what to do. Either sell the car or turn it into a track car. Some one called me and asked if we could do a T3 flanged manifold with external gate (38mm or 44mm), with down pipe and dump tube.

This got me thinking.... has anyone built a dump tube, external gate, T3 flanged manifold (tubular), down pipe kit for the MS3. I know there are a ton of manifolds out there, only 2 kits produced that I can find and both are internal gated units.

I guess what we would be looking at is getting the manifold, DP, dump tube, WG and turbo in one kit. There would be several options for the turbo since its based on a T3 flange and we would be building CAI or SRI's for this set up to make it "complete".

Now this wouldn't be for those wanting to make 300 ish WHP (we have the SST for that). This would be for those that wanted to make over 400 WHP and for those that have or want built motors. This would be for those that want a "FAST" MS3 and not some bandaid of a turbo kit on the car (adapter to go from turbo to stock DP just looks to be a leak to me).

The manifolds would be 1/2 thick flanged at the head (T372 to T352 steel), 14 gauge stainless steel tube (this is wall thickness), 3/8 thick stainless steel T3 flange and 3/8 thick 38 or 44mm WG flanges. Pretty much top dollar stuff for pricing that should land around moderate to cheap.

All the tubing used would be stainless steel with most of the flanges being stainless as well. I would like to see the kit fall into the $1900 to $2600 range.

We are talking complete kit with options for the intake. Let me know if this peaks your interests at all because we have the tools now to make tubular manifolds.

as a prior srt4 owner, i love your products. Now can i get a discount if i pay you to rebuild my engine....
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 Old 09-24-2008, 05:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by 23 marine View Post
as a prior srt4 owner, i love your products. Now can i get a discount if i pay you to rebuild my engine....
I will see what I can come up with. I don't want to do it 1/2 way. The cylinder walls are so thin that just boring them out and doing a forged set up will start to cause problems if not a blown forged motor (not sure when they will start to give out but I suspect that it will not be much over 450 WHP that we start seeing issues).

So this means we will have a "built" motor with sleeves and then we will have a filled motor (hard block) so at least the lower cylinders will be supported from all the block twist.

I guess some of you want me to build the turbo kit... so its now a go. Thanks guys.
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 Old 09-25-2008, 04:10 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
I will see what I can come up with. I don't want to do it 1/2 way. The cylinder walls are so thin that just boring them out and doing a forged set up will start to cause problems if not a blown forged motor (not sure when they will start to give out but I suspect that it will not be much over 450 WHP that we start seeing issues).

So this means we will have a "built" motor with sleeves and then we will have a filled motor (hard block) so at least the lower cylinders will be supported from all the block twist.

I guess some of you want me to build the turbo kit... so its now a go. Thanks guys.
YAY! Remember Eternal wastegate (if possible) And non DBB turbo options to keep cost down. also offer kit with or with out wastegate and dump tube. You know the drill I'm sure.
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 Old 09-25-2008, 08:22 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Darksun280 View Post
YAY! Remember Eternal wastegate (if possible) And non DBB turbo options to keep cost down. also offer kit with or with out wastegate and dump tube. You know the drill I'm sure.
The kit with out the WG and dump tube is a good idea. Kind of a "build it yourself" kit.
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 Old 09-26-2008, 08:16 PM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
The kit with out the WG and dump tube is a good idea. Kind of a "build it yourself" kit.
and an ecu reflash to go with it?
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 Old 09-26-2008, 08:56 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by 23 marine View Post
and an ecu reflash to go with it?
Yes. We will be working with the AP or a flash programmer that has 2 to 3 different flashes. We may or may not be offering this first hand so that is still up in the air.
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 Old 09-29-2008, 06:53 PM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
Yes. We will be working with the AP or a flash programmer that has 2 to 3 different flashes. We may or may not be offering this first hand so that is still up in the air.
Can we use the AP with your sst turbos or need to contact COBB for costume tunes..
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 Old 09-30-2008, 09:11 AM   #28
 
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Not ready for this now, but would definitely be interested in the next year or so. Look forward to seeing the progress/results.
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 Old 10-01-2008, 07:55 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 23 marine View Post
Can we use the AP with your sst turbos or need to contact COBB for costume tunes..
I think you would better off contacting them for some custom tunes. I am sure that they have "something" that would work but to play it safe... call them.
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 Old 10-03-2008, 12:24 PM   #30
 
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Since this is a GI thread, I'll just say I have "some" interest. And, what I think what you are proposing is great, a complete kit all the way. Some of the upgrades available I understand are piecemeal, and so, there can be issues. But, as you've noted, you really need to do an engine build too. So, it doesn't sound too cheap. But, if you do produce a complete, and reliable, system, I'll consider it.

Still, I think that your K04 upgrade is probably a more "practical" upgrade.
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 Old 10-05-2008, 01:03 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Speedie6 View Post
Since this is a GI thread, I'll just say I have "some" interest. And, what I think what you are proposing is great, a complete kit all the way. Some of the upgrades available I understand are piecemeal, and so, there can be issues. But, as you've noted, you really need to do an engine build too. So, it doesn't sound too cheap. But, if you do produce a complete, and reliable, system, I'll consider it.

Still, I think that your K04 upgrade is probably a more "practical" upgrade.
Thanks and as I look at it, yes the modded stockers are going to be about all that the general user are going to want.
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 Old 10-05-2008, 10:31 PM   #32
 
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so wait your going to be making sleeved blocks?
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 Old 10-06-2008, 10:40 AM   #33
 
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who will be doing the sleeves?

does GE sleeve these blocks? or has Darton showed any interest?

I would like to see a kit with a GT37r i have always loved that turbo from my honda days.
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 Old 10-12-2008, 01:55 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by bf360 View Post
so wait your going to be making sleeved blocks?
Yes, we have one done now with all billet parts in the lower 1/2 of the motor. We are waiting on the 8.2 to 1 pistons to show up so we can get the rest of the motor put together.

Originally Posted by fbpem1 View Post
who will be doing the sleeves?

does GE sleeve these blocks? or has Darton showed any interest?

I would like to see a kit with a GT37r i have always loved that turbo from my honda days.
Darton has them you just have to machine them down. I should say that they have something that "works" with work done to them.
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