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 Old 04-08-2008, 08:56 AM   #1
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Default BIG WHEEL UPDATE!!!!

Out of fuel and broke a shaft... damn it.

Yes we broke the shaft due to excessive back pressure. Working on a fix now and 311 will have this turbo by the end of next week.

Back pressure are over 2 to 1 and that is bad for any turbo. I suspect that is why we got the small compressor wheel and putting a bigger one in there is going to be a problem. Soooooo..... we are going to get the bugs worked out of the smaller wheel first before we start on the bigger set ups. Great thing about the bigger wheel stocker, no lag and we have lots more exhaust wheel clipping to do. I will have an update from 311 here very soon if he still wants to test this unit out.
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 Old 04-08-2008, 10:11 AM   #2
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john i got a turbo sitting here and i dont know where to ship it. Ive tried to call your shop but never got anybody.....pm the address and ill get it out.
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 Old 04-09-2008, 09:16 PM   #3
 
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John give me a call and update my ass. Im in the dark. LOL


Are you gonna go with the 44lb wheel?
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 Old 04-09-2008, 09:18 PM   #4
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your in the dark? i got a turbo sitting next to me wondering what the hell i should do with it.
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 Old 04-09-2008, 09:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Laloosh View Post
your in the dark? i got a turbo sitting next to me wondering what the hell i should do with it.
just put..

ptp
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make sure the return address says something about NJ. thats what I did..lol
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 Old 04-09-2008, 09:29 PM   #6
 
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send it to him. he will have it figured out. John knows his shit. I know this becuae I have installed 3 of his turbos myself and they all made big power on the dyno. 35-50whp easy just bolting them on.
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 Old 04-09-2008, 09:35 PM   #7
 
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Quit fucking around and put a damn 35R on it already! :-)
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 Old 04-09-2008, 09:46 PM   #8
 
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PTPerformance
18502 SE 263rd St
Covington, WA 98042

Name, address, phone number and good email address that we can contact you at. If you forget to put this in the box we have no idea who the hell you are and you turbo will get shipped back to you.

When I get it here I will call you and we will find out what you want done to the turbo. Thanks.
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 Old 04-09-2008, 09:46 PM   #9
 
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he posted that on another thread
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 Old 04-09-2008, 09:46 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by 08ms3bm View Post
Quit fucking around and put a damn 35R on it already! :-)
35r will slow the car down. guaranteed. Not enough rpm. Same shit happens with srt owner. Go big or go home. Then you get smoked by a 50trim and you wonder why. Oh wait its not about a max number. Its about having a usable curve that pulls hard at all rpms and in all gears.
You will lose curve, and when you try to compensate by upping boost. BOOOOOMMMMM. a 50trim is as big as this car needs. Unless you build the bottom end and or run standalone. Simple as that. The fastest ms3s this year will be running big wheeled stockers or small upgrades. Id be willing to bet money. Anyone care to wager????
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Last edited by driver311; 04-09-2008 at 10:02 PM.
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 Old 04-09-2008, 09:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by driver311 View Post
The fastest ms3s this year will be running big wheeled stockers. Id be willing to bet money. Anyone care to wager????
Go look at my dynos homes... with the manifold on there Im spooled at 3500 in 4th from a 2500 roll on.

If you drove my car before the install and after youd barely notice a difference. its there but its slight. these 3071s are no joke. And Im making power slap up to 6400. My band is wider than it was before.... considerably.

I'll take that bet.
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 Old 04-09-2008, 10:01 PM   #12
 
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There is a big difference in the 35r and your turbo bro. Yours is smaller than a 50trim Great choice. Yours will be fast for sure. But I just have this feeling mine or chris's with the stocker wheeled will be laying down the numbers. Time will tell.

Im sure on 22psi and some race gas I should be able to muster a 11.8@120mph in your ride Randy. I think 120trap can be had on the big wheeled stocker too.


Ps. i fixed my post for you randy. LOL
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 Old 04-09-2008, 10:18 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by andre0121 View Post
PTPerformance
18502 SE 263rd St
Covington, WA 98042

Name, address, phone number and good email address that we can contact you at. If you forget to put this in the box we have no idea who the hell you are and you turbo will get shipped back to you.

When I get it here I will call you and we will find out what you want done to the turbo. Thanks.
Pm sent since I haven't recieved any call yet...
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 Old 04-09-2008, 10:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by driver311 View Post
There is a big difference in the 35r and your turbo bro. Yours is smaller than a 50trim Great choice. Yours will be fast for sure. But I just have this feeling mine or chris's with the stocker wheeled will be laying down the numbers. Time will tell.

Im sure on 22psi and some race gas I should be able to muster a 11.8@120mph in your ride Randy. I think 120trap can be had on the big wheeled stocker too.


Ps. i fixed my post for you randy. LOL
Its saved in my post bro..... that shits on record!!!! Look.... I wouldnt put anything past you guys. But nobody takes me serious and you gotta drive this car to believe it.

It aint like it was.

But I dont know about the stocker upgrades... who knows what is possible. I know DCR didnt get shit out of their reworked stocker on the Caliber. That experiment lasted all of one week.

Just sayin...lol I gotta rep myself. Until I see some numbers somewhere from all these guys "reworking" the stocker... Im gonna try to hold my tongue.
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 Old 04-09-2008, 10:36 PM   #15
 
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LOL Randy you are funny. The turbo on the caliber is twice the size of ours. Just becuase the ALLMIGHTLY DCR couldnt get the caliber turbo to work doesnt mean shit. John has proven over and over again he can get more outa stock turbos on srts and ours isnt much different. Fuck the most i have seen out a stock srt turbo with bolt ons is 310whp. The most I have seen outa the stocker with his wheel in it its 380whp. It wasnt voodo I promise. You gotta know the little secrets to making the turbo work better. John spends alot of time figuring out what these things are. you will see my brotha. I wouldnt promote something unless I knew it had potential. I know john can work magic and I stand behind him.

You will see my friend. Im not saying it will be better than your ball bearing bad ass 3071r but it will make power. I have no doubt. I told u way ahead of time what I though dcr was gonna tell you and dont buy into it. HUMMMMMM

Ps. I take you serious Randy. You know that. I think your a pretty fucking dedicated guy and I appreciate what you do for the community.
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 Old 04-10-2008, 05:09 AM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by driver311 View Post
35r will slow the car down. guaranteed. Not enough rpm. Same shit happens with srt owner. Go big or go home. Then you get smoked by a 50trim and you wonder why. Oh wait its not about a max number. Its about having a usable curve that pulls hard at all rpms and in all gears.
You will lose curve, and when you try to compensate by upping boost. BOOOOOMMMMM. a 50trim is as big as this car needs. Unless you build the bottom end and or run standalone. Simple as that. The fastest ms3s this year will be running big wheeled stockers or small upgrades. Id be willing to bet money. Anyone care to wager????
wager,

yes
but I have a 6
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 Old 04-10-2008, 05:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by whoosh View Post
wager,

yes
but I have a 6
lol....we all think we made the right choice. we cant all be right. i wish i was there to see how your car feels compared to mine. its funny how the gt35 guys are so adamant about that turbo.

ron.... be careful of something ive noticed. at about 5800 rpms my car will dip in power on the dynos. You cant really feel it, but the dynos show it. then it pops back up and i make power again until 6400 before it falls off again.
Something is happening in the ecu but the turbo overrides it. What is strange is that the a/f will lean out dramatically with another hump there. It'll go from 10.5 to 12.0 in a matter of a few rpms before it drops back down again.

i dont know what that means for an even bigger, later hitting turbo but its something to keep an eye on. I know we pulled some fuel all across the top... I think we may add some back there. Its too big a change to fast, at too high of power not to worry about a little.
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 Old 04-10-2008, 07:17 AM   #18
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i have noticed that too, and thats where the trottle begins to close drastically.
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 Old 04-10-2008, 09:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Laloosh View Post
your in the dark? i got a turbo sitting next to me wondering what the hell i should do with it.
Sending PM now, sorry we have been very busy.
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 Old 04-10-2008, 09:22 AM   #20
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Well looks like this turned into a big turbo vs modded stocker thread.

311, yoru car will be fast, no questions and I would be willing to wager on that with the bigger turbos.

PR, yoru car is fast, but going bigger doesn't always mean faster at the track. We have a stage 3 Mopar turbo that has been modded to SST status. At 19 psi last week the car made 464 WHP. There is another 10 PSI minumum that we have to work with on this car still. The 19 psi was the shake down for break in and EMS tuning. This is where tried and true testing comes from. Not "put a bigger turbo on it and hope for the best" type of deal. The little ass turbo on the stock SRT4 and the MS3 have huge potential and the SRT4 turbo has smoked its fair share of big turbo guys nation wide. I suspect the same thing out of the MS3 because there is more to work with flow wise. Only time will tell but, we love playing catch up to the big WHP guys especialy when we are still working with the stock turbo.
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 Old 04-10-2008, 09:57 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
Well looks like this turned into a big turbo vs modded stocker thread.

311, yoru car will be fast, no questions and I would be willing to wager on that with the bigger turbos.

PR, yoru car is fast, but going bigger doesn't always mean faster at the track. We have a stage 3 Mopar turbo that has been modded to SST status. At 19 psi last week the car made 464 WHP. There is another 10 PSI minumum that we have to work with on this car still. The 19 psi was the shake down for break in and EMS tuning. This is where tried and true testing comes from. Not "put a bigger turbo on it and hope for the best" type of deal. The little ass turbo on the stock SRT4 and the MS3 have huge potential and the SRT4 turbo has smoked its fair share of big turbo guys nation wide. I suspect the same thing out of the MS3 because there is more to work with flow wise. Only time will tell but, we love playing catch up to the big WHP guys especialy when we are still working with the stock turbo.

we've all done "things" but for the Mazdaspeed 3 & 6 it's all bench racing and "talk" at this point

the big wheel stocker will certainly have it's merits depending on you plans and goals for the car
MPI has reworked stockers as you all know and there are dynos on the 6 club that show ZERO gain from the work
Yes, I know porting this and that and your wheel is better, well we are all waiting for the proof
additionally, the stockers seals leak even after the MPI rebuild/upgrade
I hope you really have a better solution to the longevity of the big wheeled stockers

Last edited by whoosh@Realtune; 04-10-2008 at 01:37 PM. Reason: being diplomatic
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 Old 04-10-2008, 09:58 AM   #22
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ok, waiting for the pm to see what the dilly is
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 Old 04-11-2008, 07:02 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by whoosh View Post
we've all done "things" but for the Mazdaspeed 3 & 6 it's all bench racing and "talk" at this point

the big wheel stocker will certainly have it's merits depending on you plans and goals for the car
MPI has reworked stockers as you all know and there are dynos on the 6 club that show ZERO gain from the work
Yes, I know porting this and that and your wheel is better, well we are all waiting for the proof
additionally, the stockers seals leak even after the MPI rebuild/upgrade
I hope you really have a better solution to the longevity of the big wheeled stockers
We had one already eat shit and it made way more power then the stock turbo. The seal issues are going to be fixed another way. We have found the problem and are waiting for one more part to show up. Should fix current smoke blowers if all goes well.
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 Old 04-11-2008, 07:18 PM   #24
 
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how much power did you make?
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 Old 04-11-2008, 07:19 PM   #25
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Just because one person is gay doesn't mean they all are? Right? Just because one turbo shop has no idea "how" to mod a stock turbo doesn't mean that all don't know "how to".

We are not talking shop or bench racing, we have results but have not come anywhere near maxing out the modded stocker on the test car. The turbo broke the shaft on spool up and this is a problem with the KO4's. We hope to have a fix for it or we have to go smaller on the compressor wheel.

The unit we are testing now has around 100 more WHP in it then the stocker and yes we will find out if it can make that much. Does that mean we will be copied, for sure on that one. What sets up apart is we take the time to find the proper balance for the modded stockers. This is a problem industry wide, most think they can balance the modded stockers off the stock specs... you can not and several have failed doing so. This is where we spend the $1000's of dollars getting the specs built for "our" set ups. This way we don't have balance issues or broken shafts or ??? mystery failures. We are the originators of the Super Stock Turbo, not the impersonators. We will have a working unit that makes more power or we will not build it. Ask the other guy if he will stop making money to advert a few failures, more likely then not he will laugh in your face and ask you where you money is. Not us.
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 Old 04-11-2008, 07:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Grim View Post
how much power did you make?
Not giving details because the car ran out of fuel on an upgraded pump and several bolt on's. I can say that at 24 psi, it spins 3rd gear on street tires. Its "fucking fast" according to him and he is very happy. We are looking at doing a 5th injector or a bigger meth set up to get the fuel this turbo needs to make 400 WHP. I have sent him down to get the pump and flash upgrade done so that should help. I have just send one of my turbine shafts out for his repair and I suspect that with the additional work done to the car high 300
s are there for sure. Fingers crossed that this big wheel doesn't break another shaft on us. If it does we need to step it down 4lb's per hour on the new compressor wheel.
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Alright that's it....time to move to Washington. *Starts updating resume*
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 Old 04-11-2008, 08:53 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
I have sent him down to get the pump and flash upgrade done so that should help.
why will it help.... you sound so matter of fact about it. Ive been leaning against it personally... we dont have the capability to go back yet if it makes things worse.

why wouldnt you wait to see what it is first?

and thats not to say Im excited about it too. Im hoping it fixes that damn lean spot!!!!! God forbid it makes it worse.
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 Old 04-12-2008, 08:38 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by palerider View Post
why will it help.... you sound so matter of fact about it. Ive been leaning against it personally... we dont have the capability to go back yet if it makes things worse.

why wouldnt you wait to see what it is first?

and thats not to say Im excited about it too. Im hoping it fixes that damn lean spot!!!!! God forbid it makes it worse.
And what makes you think its not? 2 sides of the fence and considering I have been expecting Mazda to fix it for some time now.... must mean something.

They are not going to lean the car out more, thats a given. So that either leaves, more fuel or ????? the same amount? Don't see them keeping it at the same amount because of the current problems with running out of fuel. Maybe I don't get it and need to go play with my marble.....
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 Old 04-12-2008, 09:41 AM   #30
 
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What kind of speeds was the turbo seeing when you broke the shaft? Is 175,000 rpm the limit?
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 Old 04-14-2008, 09:35 AM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
Out of fuel and broke a shaft... damn it.

Yes we broke the shaft due to excessive back pressure. Working on a fix now and 311 will have this turbo by the end of next week.

Back pressure are over 2 to 1 and that is bad for any turbo. I suspect that is why we got the small compressor wheel and putting a bigger one in there is going to be a problem. Soooooo..... we are going to get the bugs worked out of the smaller wheel first before we start on the bigger set ups. Great thing about the bigger wheel stocker, no lag and we have lots more exhaust wheel clipping to do. I will have an update from 311 here very soon if he still wants to test this unit out.
So at least you learned something.
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 Old 04-14-2008, 10:01 AM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by ptperformance View Post
And what makes you think its not? 2 sides of the fence and considering I have been expecting Mazda to fix it for some time now.... must mean something.

They are not going to lean the car out more, thats a given. So that either leaves, more fuel or ????? the same amount? Don't see them keeping it at the same amount because of the current problems with running out of fuel. Maybe I don't get it and need to go play with my marble.....
So if they're running out of fuel, why would they try to ask for more fuel? That would induce more fuel cut... I'm betting that they're going to not make the car so ridiculously rich under WOT - 9.5:1 afr? 10.5:1 afr? no sir.

I still have the manifold and fuel rail for you btw, you never replied right after you told me you wanted it last Thursday?
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 Old 04-15-2008, 02:27 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 08ms3bm View Post
What kind of speeds was the turbo seeing when you broke the shaft? Is 175,000 rpm the limit?
I think that is over the limit for the upgraded wheel we are installing in them.

The shaft was broken on spool up (excessive shaft load) and twisted it right off at the compressor wheel. Good news is we have the new clip on the test unit and so far so good for a weekend of beatings. NO MORE LAG, that is what we are really interested about. With the heavy clip we have seen a great amount of drop in the EGT's and more stable and higher boost levels. I will keep you guys updated on the larger compressor wheel as well as the standard upgrade we are sending to 311.
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 Old 04-15-2008, 02:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by 08ms3bm View Post
So at least you learned something.
Thats part of the idea, its a learning curve.
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 Old 04-15-2008, 02:29 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by mrlilguy157 View Post
So if they're running out of fuel, why would they try to ask for more fuel? That would induce more fuel cut... I'm betting that they're going to not make the car so ridiculously rich under WOT - 9.5:1 afr? 10.5:1 afr? no sir.

I still have the manifold and fuel rail for you btw, you never replied right after you told me you wanted it last Thursday?
You have your idea's as to why I have mine, only time will tell if either of us are correct. PM was sent stating that the parts were no longer needed, I wanted the turbo as well but you have stated that you have sold that already. Thanks.
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 Old 04-15-2008, 10:53 PM   #36
 
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Hitachi should stick with power tools and stay away from making things that spin really fast. GARRETT TO THE RESCUE!!!!!!!!!!! :-) :-)
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 Old 04-16-2008, 04:34 AM   #37
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 Old 04-16-2008, 09:03 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by 08ms3bm View Post
Hitachi should stick with power tools and stay away from making things that spin really fast. GARRETT TO THE RESCUE!!!!!!!!!!! :-) :-)
Agreed and it is a Garrett wheel we are installing in these to make the power.
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 Old 04-16-2008, 09:25 AM   #39
 
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When do you think you will be ready to upgrade turbos? Im probably going to use my tax return to upgrade my stocker but want to wait till you have everything you are planning to do to our turbos ready with minimal downtime. I wanted to mail you my turbo, once you got it mail me an rebuilt/upgraded one so i dont have to pay a core charge
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 Old 04-16-2008, 09:32 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by JumpingJackson View Post
When do you think you will be ready to upgrade turbos? Im probably going to use my tax return to upgrade my stocker but want to wait till you have everything you are planning to do to our turbos ready with minimal downtime. I wanted to mail you my turbo, once you got it mail me an rebuilt/upgraded one so i dont have to pay a core charge
I have my fingers crossed that in 2 weeks we will be shipping units out to people. I have 2 testers running now and with that said I hope to have near zero failures with them now that we have worked on the back pressure issues.
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