BT Crankcase venting ideas and current setups

[PapaSmurf]

Well i just got running again if you didnt know and have been running 26psi on my 35r. Which im obviously going to up once dustin has some time to PERM me.

Dipstick ejaculation, which i know many people have found out is annoying, right now im masking it with some springs from the local lowes and I am only running a breather on my VC.

Im pretty sure ill start pissing oil out of my VC soon enough since I masked the dipstick issue.



I just wanted to make a thread to hear peoples current set ups (if they are or are not working) and some new ideas.

Right now im thinking of running what jmhinkle is running.

Pretty much a stock setup VC back into my intake but run an OCC in between.

so pretty much... VC>OCC>INTAKE

This would require me getting dustin to weld a nipple onto my intake and getting a OCC (fairly cheap)

Thoughts?

doubleflusher
djuosnteisn
driver311
superskaterxes
SPEED6 KILLAH
Tomas
@whoever else makes enough power for this issue.

[IshiKage]

Vented OCC like wha the honda guys run?

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by IshiKage Vented OCC like wha the honda guys run?

That was also another one of my ideas... wouldnt there still be a chance oil would piss out the vented side of the occ?

[BigjohnB20]

Seems like people have had the best luck with some sort of exhaust venturi set up for the VC breather. That way you have IM vacuum on the CC at low load conditions and then at high load/WOT, the venturi will pull a small vacuum and in theory pull out a lot of that blow by.

SilverDemon
dougefresh

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by BigjohnB20 Seems like people have had the best luck with some sort of exhaust venturi set up for the VC breather. That way you have IM vacuum on the CC at low load conditions and then at high load/WOT, the venturi will pull a small vacuum and in theory pull out a lot of that blow by.

Thats just a slash cut in your downpipe with a hose running from your valve cover?

[SFWD 1934]

I did one for the DISI kind of like the one I run on my Honda motors. I am having the can powder coated right now. When I get it back and installed I will shoot some pictures over. The internals of the can are baffled. Just about a 1 gallon capacity.

Jason

[bcmurphy87]

IN for some options as well. Im tired of finding oil leaks

[Celestspeed3]

PCV removed, 3 catch cans, or one big catch can with 3 inlets, 1 or 2 where the PCV is or 1 or 2 on the valve cover, the exit on the catch can to the intake. That's what I'll be doing on Fobio's car. I believe Bluestreak is doing the same.

BlueStreak
Fobio

[bcmurphy87]

what do you mean by pvc delete? are you removing the little black box completely?

[SilverDemon]

The above pic is the a diagram of the principle behind the circuit. As the manifold is under vacuum the system operates normal, pulls through the PCV valve, then the catch can, and last, pulls the check valve open. Under boost, the check vavle on the manifold is pushed shut, and as the exhaust velocity increases, the check valve on the exhaust is pulled open, in turn pulling a slight vacuum on the catch can, depositing any gunk before it reaches the exhaust. This will achieve a slight negative pressure in the crank case. The diagram also shows a hose running from the turbo inlet to the valve cover, I ran it both ways and found little to no difference in the operation. So, to keep things simple I am running a small breather filter on the valve cover. I have not experienced any oil contamination on the filter to date (i.e. oil being pushed from the valve cover to atmosphere, a good indication that a vacuum is present at all throttle positions).

In order to do some testing and validation of this setup, I drilled a tapped an 1/8th NPT port on the top of the catch can to measure pressure a vacuum. I purchased an inexpensive mechanical gauge from Advanced auto to do all the testing.

Something I learned in testing is the 2nd PCV valve instead of a check valve that was recommended only have a max flow at about 10 - 12 inches of vacuum, more than that and the PCV shuts off most of the flow, and when the vacuum drops quickly (opening the throttle plate) below the 10 - 12" mark the flow shuts down as well. Having learned that, if I drive at 3,000rpm and keeping the vacuum at 10 -12" I will see max vacuum on the crank case. As I did the testing with the 2nd PCV valve, I found that it will bleed boost into the can, and then back into the crankcase. I was after a solution that will always pull a vacuum on the crankcase.


With a check valve on the manifold side the vacuum stayed the same, 1:1 with the intake manifold. I took the car into boost, the gauge went to zero, and then barley pulled off the zero mark. My gauge is not sensitive enough to accurately read low vacuum like this. I am going to guess at around .1 - .5 inches of vacuum, and at one time I saw a little pressure, but I am not going to take that too serious because I was in between shifts and it could have been a little needle bounce. All in all I am satisfied with the results.

1) I was able to achieve a slight vacuum in the catch can while under boost.
2) I now know for sure that there is no pressure in the catch can, and crank case.
3) The catch can is virtually "catching" everything all the time.

My suggestions is to at least do a catch can. Use a check valve on the intake side instead of a PCV valve. Add a place to measure the pressure/vacuum on the system, if you don't know how the system is working, how do you know if any head way was made in achieving the results? The exhaust venturi is by far the cheapest and most none power robbing way to create a slight vacuum on this set up, but will not create a "high" vacuum on the crank case like vacuum pump setups. If an electric pump is used it puts a load on the electrical system, a belt driven pump puts a load on the accessory drive, plus the cost of rebuilding the pumps, yes both of those style pumps require maintenance.


Make sure to use -10 AN hose, this is the best to use with this application of heat, oil and vacuum. There has been some reported failures with the Moroso and Jegs check valves. There are some other great check valves on the market that can be substituded, just make sure that the check valves can handle the flow demands of the PCV system. All of the check valves need to be 5/8" or have -10AN fittings.


I have been running this setup for a good 25000 miles, absolutely NO issues. The diagram shows a line going to the TIP, that was my original setup, but swapped it out for just a breather filter. The vacuum at idle and WOT is enough to keep the dipstick in place, and not contaminate the filter element on the valve cover.

Current setup I am running is a single scroll 35r and 25 psi, on a built motor stock compression.

[Celestspeed3]

Yes we are removing the place box completely. I think Topspeed makes a plate for it, so does Cosworth.

I was thinking of going drysump, I just need a place to mount the oil can. Maybe I'll just move the battery to the trunk and put the an where the battery went.

[theschrum]

Audi guys (2.7 TT) run vented oil filler caps. I am not sure if that would work for us though, I would suspect that it would start pissing oil from being thrown at it by the timing chain.

[IshiKage]

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf That was also another one of my ideas... wouldnt there still be a chance oil would piss out the vented side of the occ?

no being that the oil would go back into the block rather than being discarded.

[Evan@COBB]

Currently hitting 24 PSI with just a catch can installed between PCV and IM, like most.

Put about 1200 miles on the car since the built motor and 35r and have not had any issues. Pulled the intake today to finally convert to a 3" MAF/Intake and there was zero oil residue in the valve cover hose or in the intake.

Eventually, I'd like to move to the venturi setup. Until then, I'm going to install a catch can between the VC and intake to ensure nothing does make it's way back into the intake system.

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon The above pic is the a diagram of the principle behind the circuit. As the manifold is under vacuum the system operates normal, pulls through the PCV valve, then the catch can, and last, pulls the check valve open. Under boost, the check vavle on the manifold is pushed shut, and as the exhaust velocity increases, the check valve on the exhaust is pulled open, in turn pulling a slight vacuum on the catch can, depositing any gunk before it reaches the exhaust. This will achieve a slight negative pressure in the crank case. The diagram also shows a hose running from the turbo inlet to the valve cover, I ran it both ways and found little to no difference in the operation. So, to keep things simple I am running a small breather filter on the valve cover. I have not experienced any oil contamination on the filter to date (i.e. oil being pushed from the valve cover to atmosphere, a good indication that a vacuum is present at all throttle positions). In order to do some testing and validation of this setup, I drilled a tapped an 1/8th NPT port on the top of the catch can to measure pressure a vacuum. I purchased an inexpensive mechanical gauge from Advanced auto to do all the testing. Something I learned in testing is the 2nd PCV valve instead of a check valve that was recommended only have a max flow at about 10 - 12 inches of vacuum, more than that and the PCV shuts off most of the flow, and when the vacuum drops quickly (opening the throttle plate) below the 10 - 12" mark the flow shuts down as well. Having learned that, if I drive at 3,000rpm and keeping the vacuum at 10 -12" I will see max vacuum on the crank case. As I did the testing with the 2nd PCV valve, I found that it will bleed boost into the can, and then back into the crankcase. I was after a solution that will always pull a vacuum on the crankcase. With a check valve on the manifold side the vacuum stayed the same, 1:1 with the intake manifold. I took the car into boost, the gauge went to zero, and then barley pulled off the zero mark. My gauge is not sensitive enough to accurately read low vacuum like this. I am going to guess at around .1 - .5 inches of vacuum, and at one time I saw a little pressure, but I am not going to take that too serious because I was in between shifts and it could have been a little needle bounce. All in all I am satisfied with the results. 1) I was able to achieve a slight vacuum in the catch can while under boost. 2) I now know for sure that there is no pressure in the catch can, and crank case. 3) The catch can is virtually "catching" everything all the time. My suggestions is to at least do a catch can. Use a check valve on the intake side instead of a PCV valve. Add a place to measure the pressure/vacuum on the system, if you don't know how the system is working, how do you know if any head way was made in achieving the results? The exhaust venturi is by far the cheapest and most none power robbing way to create a slight vacuum on this set up, but will not create a "high" vacuum on the crank case like vacuum pump setups. If an electric pump is used it puts a load on the electrical system, a belt driven pump puts a load on the accessory drive, plus the cost of rebuilding the pumps, yes both of those style pumps require maintenance. Make sure to use -10 AN hose, this is the best to use with this application of heat, oil and vacuum. There has been some reported failures with the Moroso and Jegs check valves. There are some other great check valves on the market that can be substituded, just make sure that the check valves can handle the flow demands of the PCV system. All of the check valves need to be 5/8" or have -10AN fittings. I have been running this setup for a good 25000 miles, absolutely NO issues. The diagram shows a line going to the TIP, that was my original setup, but swapped it out for just a breather filter. The vacuum at idle and WOT is enough to keep the dipstick in place, and not contaminate the filter element on the valve cover. Current setup I am running is a single scroll 35r and 25 psi, on a built motor stock compression.

may I ask which catch can you are using with 3 ports on it?

[bcmurphy87]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon The above pic is the a diagram of the principle behind the circuit. As the manifold is under vacuum the system operates normal, pulls through the PCV valve, then the catch can, and last, pulls the check valve open. Under boost, the check vavle on the manifold is pushed shut, and as the exhaust velocity increases, the check valve on the exhaust is pulled open, in turn pulling a slight vacuum on the catch can, depositing any gunk before it reaches the exhaust. This will achieve a slight negative pressure in the crank case. The diagram also shows a hose running from the turbo inlet to the valve cover, I ran it both ways and found little to no difference in the operation. So, to keep things simple I am running a small breather filter on the valve cover. I have not experienced any oil contamination on the filter to date (i.e. oil being pushed from the valve cover to atmosphere, a good indication that a vacuum is present at all throttle positions). In order to do some testing and validation of this setup, I drilled a tapped an 1/8th NPT port on the top of the catch can to measure pressure a vacuum. I purchased an inexpensive mechanical gauge from Advanced auto to do all the testing. Something I learned in testing is the 2nd PCV valve instead of a check valve that was recommended only have a max flow at about 10 - 12 inches of vacuum, more than that and the PCV shuts off most of the flow, and when the vacuum drops quickly (opening the throttle plate) below the 10 - 12" mark the flow shuts down as well. Having learned that, if I drive at 3,000rpm and keeping the vacuum at 10 -12" I will see max vacuum on the crank case. As I did the testing with the 2nd PCV valve, I found that it will bleed boost into the can, and then back into the crankcase. I was after a solution that will always pull a vacuum on the crankcase. With a check valve on the manifold side the vacuum stayed the same, 1:1 with the intake manifold. I took the car into boost, the gauge went to zero, and then barley pulled off the zero mark. My gauge is not sensitive enough to accurately read low vacuum like this. I am going to guess at around .1 - .5 inches of vacuum, and at one time I saw a little pressure, but I am not going to take that too serious because I was in between shifts and it could have been a little needle bounce. All in all I am satisfied with the results. 1) I was able to achieve a slight vacuum in the catch can while under boost. 2) I now know for sure that there is no pressure in the catch can, and crank case. 3) The catch can is virtually "catching" everything all the time. My suggestions is to at least do a catch can. Use a check valve on the intake side instead of a PCV valve. Add a place to measure the pressure/vacuum on the system, if you don't know how the system is working, how do you know if any head way was made in achieving the results? The exhaust venturi is by far the cheapest and most none power robbing way to create a slight vacuum on this set up, but will not create a "high" vacuum on the crank case like vacuum pump setups. If an electric pump is used it puts a load on the electrical system, a belt driven pump puts a load on the accessory drive, plus the cost of rebuilding the pumps, yes both of those style pumps require maintenance. Make sure to use -10 AN hose, this is the best to use with this application of heat, oil and vacuum. There has been some reported failures with the Moroso and Jegs check valves. There are some other great check valves on the market that can be substituded, just make sure that the check valves can handle the flow demands of the PCV system. All of the check valves need to be 5/8" or have -10AN fittings. I have been running this setup for a good 25000 miles, absolutely NO issues. The diagram shows a line going to the TIP, that was my original setup, but swapped it out for just a breather filter. The vacuum at idle and WOT is enough to keep the dipstick in place, and not contaminate the filter element on the valve cover. Current setup I am running is a single scroll 35r and 25 psi, on a built motor stock compression.

I am current using the sakiou can, by your design i need to buy another can that has a top port and change my pvc valve over to a check valve. I am running the same turbo and boost as you.

My OCC setup up is the Mattdamon kit.

[SFWD 1934]

I used the Cosworth block off plate. Welded some -10AN bungs on it. Also -10AN on the valve cover.

Jason

[SilverDemon]

I built my own out of .120" wall stainless tubing. I think I still have some pics on the other computer... but I can't be sure since I built that about 3-4 years ago.

Originally Posted by bcmurphy87 I am current using the sakiou can, by your design i need to buy another can that has a top port and change my pvc valve over to a check valve. I am running the same turbo and boost as you. My OCC setup up is the Mattdamon kit.

I think you can modify the MD can to work. The orientation of the ports in the pics are just for the diagram. The three ports on the can are actually in the side.

Make sure to keep the PCV valve, and just add the check after the pcv in the block. These types of setups require the air to metered by the PCV in order to function correctly.

[PapaSmurf]

You could also use this for the can correct?

ORB3 Breather Tank

[bcmurphy87]

im OFFICALly confused lol. Please build a kit and sell

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf You could also use this for the can correct? ORB3 Breather Tank

That one seems feasible. It looks as if you can order specific bungs to meet the airflow needs of the pcv system. I wonder what the internal structure looks like?

[superskaterxes]

drilled holes in the VC baffle, dual venting the VC to ATM, block off plate with 10AN fitting in the stock location to an OCC + CV + PCV from TT 300ZX


you can NOT completely delete the PCV from the system just like scott stated

[bcmurphy87]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes drilled holes in the VC baffle, dual venting the VC to ATM, block off plate with 10AN fitting in the stock location to an OCC + CV + PCV from TT 300ZX you can NOT completely delete the PCV from the system just like scott stated

more pictures please of valve cover and drawings to help understandings lol

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon That one seems feasible. It looks as if you can order specific bungs to meet the airflow needs of the pcv system. I wonder what the internal structure looks like?

if you click on see drawing it shows you the internals.

Originally Posted by superskaterxes drilled holes in the VC baffle, dual venting the VC to ATM, block off plate with 10AN fitting in the stock location to an OCC + CV + PCV from TT 300ZX you can NOT completely delete the PCV from the system just like scott stated

I feel like a noob ATM acronym?

[crazyp]

dougefresh_ did the exhaust venturi with good results. My dipstick ejaculates above 26 psi also lol, eventually I'll do what douge did.

[SilverDemon]

Yup, I saw that it shows the internal structure as soon as I posted. It sure sounds like it would work just fine. Give it a shot to see how it works out.

[superskaterxes]

lets also note here that if your dipstick is popping YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.

bandaiding the dipstick with a spring is NOT THE SOLUTION. either you have excessive blow by or your leaking boost into the CC. if you eliminate the possibility of leaking boost with a good CV then you should be good and wont need anything further.


ATM= atmosphere

[bcmurphy87]

i think ATM is atmosphere?

my dipstick is shooting out

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes lets also note here that if your dipstick is popping YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. bandaiding the dipstick with a spring is NOT THE SOLUTION. either you have excessive blow by or your leaking boost into the CC. if you eliminate the possibility of leaking boost with a good CV then you should be good and wont need anything further. ATM= atmosphere

Oh I know I have a problem with crankcase venting thats why I made this thread. I just put a spring on it for a quick bandaid.

I am def going to drill holes in the baffle of my VC.. thats easy to do.

My current setup is just a MD CC kit with a CV on the IM side... are you saying I should also put a check valve inbetween the block/cc?

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by bcmurphy87 i think ATM is atmosphere? my dipstick is shooting out

As skates mentioned, do a leak down test to find out if you have blow by. If that test comes back fine, then do a check valve in between the pcv and catch can.

[SSinstaller]

I just run a check valve and OCC on the PVC to IM line. my valve cover breather runs right into my intake with no OCC. I have never blown out the dipstick even with the gt35 at 24+ psi--I even blew a boost tube off with a~30psi spike, but the dipstick stayed in place...

[superskaterxes]

after i bought a good CV i never had problems with dipstick blowout again. but theres still a problem with the CC generating boost on its own which is why i dual vented the VC and drilled the holes for more airflow.

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes after i bought a good CV i never had problems with dipstick blowout again. but theres still a problem with the CC generating boost on its own which is why i dual vented the VC and drilled the holes for more airflow.

by duel vented do you mean put another passage for venting into your VC?

I plan on drilling holes in the baffle and running a hose to the bottom of my car for oil pissing out the VC. But I def need to figure out an actual fix instead of just bandaiding it.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf by duel vented do you mean put another passage for venting into your VC? I plan on drilling holes in the baffle and running a hose to the bottom of my car for oil pissing out the VC. But I def need to figure out an actual fix instead of just bandaiding it.

on the left side of my VC i put a barbed fitting as another "vent" and t'd this with the stock breather outlet.

this is technically a solution because it relieves all pressure form your CC at WOT but it is best to pull a vacuum on the CC for the best performance.

[Dano]

There's already a thread devoted entirely to this...its old but has SSes VC evac and SDs stuff...not sure why SD deleted OP.

CrankCase Evacuation System

[PapaSmurf]

Thanks dano I did search didn't find a dedicated thread so I thought I'd make one.


Tapafucku!

[bcmurphy87]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller I just run a check valve and OCC on the PVC to IM line. my valve cover breather runs right into my intake with no OCC. I have never blown out the dipstick even with the gt35 at 24+ psi--I even blew a boost tube off with a~30psi spike, but the dipstick stayed in place...

can you recommend a check valve please?

[NJSPEED3]

I did what Anthony described and in terms of evacuating crank pressure it def works. I have ran 30psi with no dipstick issues.

Im looking into a vented catch can to go from the valve cover to finish my set up, right now I just run a 5/8" hose from the v.c to the ground.

[Dano]

Not jegs. Lol

Mcmaster car has some good ones as discussed in qtrmile beasts thread. " bad jeggs check valve"




Tappin

[86azms3]

Subbed, if I ever have issues. Still running stock.