Carbon build-up on Speed 6/3 & CX-7. A big issue!!!

[daztdMS6]

As some of you already know that carbon build-up in any direct injection engine(DFI, GDI, DI) will be an issue. There is no gasoline fuel to wash clean the intake manifold and the intake valves.



Compared to port injection/carburated engines that have fuel going through the intake mani and then to the intake valves. Our engines have a Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system. Basically, this connects the engine block to the intake manifold. In the event that there is boost blowing by the piston rings, it relieves the pressure in the oil sump. Problem is that there is also misc. crap that comes along from the oil sump (oil, fuel, etc.).

An OCC is used to prevent crankcase blow by waste from being sucked into your intake manifold, by design this is supposed to happen (very minimal amounts to be burned off) but a forced induced engines put out a lot more crankcase pressure and manifold vacuum/positive pressure then an n/a engine, sometimes/a lot of time large amounts of unspent fuel, condensate and oil vapor go through the venting system usually under boost and plume of burn off come out of the exhaust tail pipe, attributes to possibly fouling the plugs, fouling O2's and other sensors etc also some of this can be sucked into intake piping and intercooler reducing cooling effectiveness and making a god damn mess of things.

I'm gathering info to help anyone with this inherent future problem....great for noobies or for people who want to prevent this problem.

And this is what is caught in the OCC...



And this is what happens when all that crap from above gets fried onto the intake valves, ewww...



Here are few solutions to fix this problem are:

1. Delete the EGR valve: ported intake-PCV catch can-EGR delete=DONE - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
2. Install an oil catch can(OCC): whoosh&#39s oil catch can teaser - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
and this: Oil Catch Can ... - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
3. Set up an water/meth injection kit: How to: Water/Meth injection install - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
4. Use SeaFoam through the brake booster hose: Seafoam - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
5. Have the intake cleaned by a professional: BG Findashop - Search for an authorized BG service center near you!
6. How to remove the Intake Manifold on a Speed6: HOW-TO: Intake Manifold Removal - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
and from SuperSkaterxes:How-to remove intake mani + install OCC - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum
Torque specs for the throttle body bolts are 71-101 in/lbs.
Torque specs for the intake manifold bolts are only 13-16 ft lbs !!
The bolts are very small, they screw into aluminum, and there are a total of 8 bolts securing the relatively light manifold. 1/4" torque wrench is best for this. 170 in/lbs = 14 ft/lbs
7. How-to professionally decarbonizing your engine on the Speed 6: How-to professionally decarbonizing your engine on the Speed 6 - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum

8. Why you need an OCC for the MazdaSpeed 6: Why you need an Oil Catch Can, FYI - Mazda 6 Forums : Mazda 6 Forum / Mazda Atenza Forum

Important note--->Running fuel injector cleaner through the gas tank "WON'T" clean anything on the intake side.....I wish it could.

Here is some info from Porsche owners having the same problem: Carbon buildup on DFI engines. -

Audi engine's too. Great info here: Audi FSI Engine Carbon Build-up Megathread

GM's 3.6L V6 DI engine carbon build-up issues: Direct Injection causes power loss overtime? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

GM's Top Engine Cleaner: GM Top Engine Cleaner Replaced - GM Techlink



Here's info on where to buy stuff to fix/stop/prevent carbon build-up:
Water/Meth kits: AEM Water/Methanol Injection Kits - Water-Meth Injection Systems for Turbo/Super - Wideband O2 UEGO, Water/Methanol, Stand Alone Engine Management, Piggyback F/IC, Tru Boost Controller, Gauges, Automotive Performance Electronics

and from...
DevilsOwn Water/Meth: DevilsOwn Injection

Oil Catch Can Kit(OCC): Home - Performance Automotive Development LLC

Seafoam: Sea Foam | Motor Treatment

Seafoam Spray: Sea Foam | Sea Foam Spray

MOC Cleaning Products: MOC Products - Preview Information

MOC Optimizer Foaming Spray: MOC Products - Preview Information

EGR Block Off Plate only from StreetUnit: StreetUnit EGR Block Off Plate: MAZDASPEED 6, MAZDASPEED 3, CX-7

EGR Block Off Plate & Plug from JBR: EGR Block Off Kit MS6 [EGRBO] - $20.00 : James Barone Racing, Custom Fabrication

[PunjabiPlaya]

most of that stuff has been posted on here too, but thanks for collecting it all

[daztdMS6]

Thanks, I did this on the other forum I belong to and i just wanted to pass the info to MSF family.

[NCZ13]

Im using this new product we got at work today from MOC.

Its intended for DI cars as the product foams up in the head and loosens the carbon deposits. One of the techs used it on a new turbo sonata with 15k and said he could definitely feel the difference after he used it.

Its definitely a product that you have to change the oil after. So this stuff definitely makes its way through the engine.

Ill report back with results. I am at 57k and have never used any sort of treatment.

[Karmat]

Great collection and reminder.

This is a stupid problem but it is a problem nevertheless.

[SpeedSixxx]

try doing research before you post info that is ALL OVER MSF....

it's called sea foam and it will fix most carbon build up problems...

[Fatguy729]

seafoam doesn't do shit for our intake mani/valves... or any DI platform for that matter.


I would be interested in this MOC stuff so I don't have to do this..... how to: clean your valves vol 2

[rfinkle2]

Speed6killah is a Mazda tech, and recommends Mazdas own "zoom" juice, or whatever it is called.

They use it to clean the apex seals on the rotary motors, and he has had quite a few intake manifolds off also.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by Fatguy729 seafoam doesn't do shit for our intake mani/valves... or any DI platform for that matter. I would be interested in this MOC stuff so I don't have to do this..... how to: clean your valves vol 2

really?

sea foam doesnt do anything for DI cars?...

are your retarded... oh wait you are...

[kunfu]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx try doing research before you post info that is ALL OVER MSF.... it's called sea foam and it will fix most carbon build up problems...

I would disagree with that, I dont think anyone on this forum has seen seafoam clean valves.

[Fatguy729]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx really? sea foam doesnt do anything for DI cars?... are your retarded... oh wait you are...

ok interwebz hardass... I'm retarded... and seafoam still will not clean your intake manifold or valves

[NCZ13]

I just got done with it.

Engine definitely feels a bit smoother and feels a bit more peppy, and I shot out a good bit of black and gray smoke out the tail pipe. Made the bays smell nice. Also got to rev the shit out of my car at work

Will do an oil change at the end of the day as well.

MOC Products - Preview Information

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by kunfu I would disagree with that, I dont think anyone on this forum has seen seafoam clean valves.

where do you think sea foam goes when it's sucking through your vacuum lines...

it's pointless to argue with you guys.

intake valves...sea foam won't do much but it sure does loosen up some of the build up on valves..


as for the IM, again..

where does the sea foam go when you let you brake booster vac line suck it all up?..

oh shit... it goes through the entire system and it sure does clean IM's..

not to mention there shouldnt be any build up of carbon in your intake manifold.. if there is you have some serious issues.

there will be some oil residue in the IM but no carbon build up except for the EGR port.

I have 80000 miles on my speed 6 and I use sea foam every few oil changes.

my IM is SPOTLESS.

[SpeedSixxx]

can I ask how do you use the MOC multi purpose engline cleaner?

do you suck it through your vac line as you would with sea foam or is there another method to use it.?

also what is it made out of?

alcohol based?... like sea foam..?

[kunfu]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx where do you think sea foam goes when it's sucking through your vacuum lines... it's pointless to argue with you guys. intake valves...sea foam won't do much but it sure does loosen up some of the build up on valves.. as for the IM, again.. where does the sea foam go when you let you brake booster vac line suck it all up?.. oh shit... it goes through the entire system and it sure does clean IM's.. not to mention there shouldnt be any build up of carbon in your intake manifold.. if there is you have some serious issues. there will be some oil residue in the IM but no carbon build up except for the EGR port. I have 80000 miles on my speed 6 and I use sea foam every few oil changes. my IM is SPOTLESS.

Notice Im not arguing with you about where it ends up. I simply said it doesn't clean the valves. I duno maybe it helps slow buildup on the valves....but it seems without fail that anytime someone takes a look at there valves they are covered in shit, seafoam or not.

How much does it generally cost to have your vales cleaned?

And yes im far to lazy to spend a whole day doing it myself.

[NCZ13]

I used the brake booster line. It comes with a trigger and hose tool to inject it into the line.

On the can it says it contains
xylene
propane/isobutane
solvent naptha
ethylbenzene
petroleum distillates
alkyphenol ethoxylate
morpholine

[bnoon]

Seafoam does clean the intake and valves. Not sure where you guys got the info that it's not. Running a can of seafoam through the intake is just what the doctor ordered for direct injection when you suck it through a vacuum hose.

The only way it wouldn't clean the intake or valves is if you only used it as a fuel system cleaner, but seafoam is so much more than just that.

[daztdMS6]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx I have 80000 miles on my speed 6 and I use sea foam every few oil changes. My IM is SPOTLESS.

At how many miles did you start using the Seafoam to clean the IM? I started doing the intake valve/IM cleaning last fall at every oil change.

Originally Posted by NCZ13 Im using this new product we got at work today from MOC. Its intended for DI cars as the product foams up in the head and loosens the carbon deposits. One of the techs used it on a new turbo sonata with 15k and said he could definitely feel the difference after he used it. Its definitely a product that you have to change the oil after. So this stuff definitely makes its way through the engine. Ill report back with results. I am at 57k and have never used any sort of treatment.

Are you going to remove the IM soon to see the results of the MOC?

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by NCZ13 I used the brake booster line. It comes with a trigger and hose tool to inject it into the line. On the can it says it contains xylene propane/isobutane solvent naptha ethylbenzene petroleum distillates alkyphenol ethoxylate morpholine

I'm not talking about all of you but the guys calling me an internet tuff guy and basically saying I dunno what I'm talking about.

please shut your mouth.

as the dude that I quoted up top stated, the MOC cleaner is EXACTLY the same as sea foam and works the same and used the same.

maybe you guys don't know or trust me but read what bnoon said..

sea foam works and works well, I came in here to try and correct what you guys said and maybe I came off a little rude but in the end I'M RIGHT and always new it.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by daztdMS6 At how many miles did you start using the Seafoam to clean the IM? I started doing the intake valve/IM cleaning last fall at every oil change. Are you going to remove the IM soon to see the results of the MOC?

I started using sea foam at about 38000 miles every other oil change or so.

I'm not sure if it's "ok" to use sea foam or any other MOC type of product at every oil change but like I said I use it every other change and for a while now..

yes when it's all done you get a SHIT TON of smoke and everyone but you thinks your car is on fire.

the car def feels a bit "peppier" everytime I use sea foam...

no need to take your IM off when using any product, using it as directed works great if you take the right steps.

I know you can clean the exhaust valves with a shot gun cleaning kit ...

the intake valves as well...

I assume if you were to take your IM off to use sea foam directly on the vlaves it would work a lot better but be careful not to hydro lock....

and you can add sea foam to your oil and gas as well...

do all the steps and you will have a cleaner happier motor...

use at least half the bottle in the vac line, if not 3/4ths...

use the other half of the bottle in your oil and your gas and then take your 15 min drive to clear the system of the sea foam or whatever...

then do your oil change and your car will wanna suck you off.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by kunfu I would disagree with that, I dont think anyone on this forum has seen seafoam clean valves.

^^^ really? have you been here long enough and read enough to really make the assumption that "no one on this forum has seen sea foam clean valves..."

it's been tested, been proven and is a FACT..

please hold back on replying because your opinions are no longer valid.

and i'm done.

[daztdMS6]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx no need to take your IM off when using any product, using it as directed works great if you take the right steps. I assume if you were to take your IM off to use sea foam directly on the valves it would work a lot better but be careful not to hydro lock..

I know you don't have to take the IM off to use SF silly, I'm just wondering what the results are from using MOC . If some one has a borescope to peak inside the engine, the IM removal to see the valves is not needed.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by daztdMS6 I know you don't have to take the IM off to use SF silly, I'm just wondering what the results are from using MOC . If some one has a borescope to peak inside the engine, the IM removal to see the valves is not needed.

taking off the IM is not so hard...

I agree, looking at the Intake valves before using MOC or sea foam and then looking at them again after ... you would see a diff.

if you have over 50000 miles on your DI car and just started using sea foam, use it every oil change as you def need it.

if you have been using it on a constant like myself you should have a cleaner motor then most.

only prob I have it 80k miles on the motor and original PCV.. I must change that soon.

[daztdMS6]

Yeah, I would change that PCV soon.

[SpeedSixxx]

fatguy729 and kunfu.....

where are your witty remarks now?

[Fatguy729]

I'm waiting for when you pull your intake manifold off and shit yourself cuz your valves look exactly like every other persons' on this forum.

[drewj]

After cleaning the IM/valves, installing an OCC and EGR block off plates, and performing Sea Foam treatment, what "other" factors will contribute to carbon build up? I know in the perfect theoretical world, we'd all have the solution to stop carbon build-up completely. However, this is not true. Thanks in advance for any insight.

[TWOptSL0W]

there is no way to stop buildup. even on port injected cars with all their fancy additives in fuel, carbon still builds up, its a fact of life. only regular cleanings can remedy the situation. all of those other things only slow the process, but we cant stop it

[Oldturbonoob]

I recently purchased a used 2009 MS3. The service records indicate that a BG Induction service was performed at 29304 miles and it currently has 38889 miles. Does the BG induction service clean the valves very well? I've been doing some reading on this forum prior to registering and have seen alot about self service valve cleaning from Sea Foam to chemtool and walnut blasting.

I guess bottom line if install a OCC and delete EGR and have another BG Induction job done, will my carbon build up worries be completely over?

I should read more completely....it would seem the answer is right above me.

[daztdMS6]

Originally Posted by Oldturbonoob I recently purchased a used 2009 MS3. The service records indicate that a BG Induction service was performed at 29304 miles and it currently has 38889 miles. Does the BG induction service clean the valves very well? I've been doing some reading on this forum prior to registering and have seen alot about self service valve cleaning from Sea Foam to chemtool and walnut blasting. I guess bottom line if install a OCC and delete EGR and have another BG Induction job done, will my carbon build up worries be completely over? I should read more completely....it would seem the answer is right above me.

BG induction service does very little at cleaning the valves......I've done it several times. Like Twotpslow said, installing a occ and deleting the egr will slow the carbon build-up. The only true way to clean the valves is to either soak and scrub or soak and blast with walnuts. Since I just walnut blasted my valves after 128,000 miles, I will do the BG induction service at every oil change. I own a BG apparatus so for me to do it is very cheap and easy.

Here's an update thread on carbon build-up: Carbon build-up on Speed 6, 3 & CX-7. A big issue

[manilaMS12]

NCZ13 Did you ever take off the IM and examine the valves after using the MOC?
I've only got 10k on the pu and haven't installed the EGR delete and an OCC yet.

[Oldturbonoob]

So I cleaned my valves with a combination of a pistol cleaning rod and 32 cal bore brush and walnut media. Presoaked with B12 for an hour on each port. My valves were horrible. I'm talking mountains of carbon. Sorry no pictures. Took me two days to do (most of that was cleaning and resoaking and cleaning again). Either way it needed doing (cleaned the intake manifold and EGR pipe while I was at it.

I idle is more even now and the car barely vibrates at all with the AC on which is a vast improvement. I haven't gone WOT with it yet but around the block impression seemed to rev up faster and pull just a tad harder.

It was a pain in the

[daztdMS6]

Yes, pain in the butt to do. However, well worth it.

[Oldturbonoob]

I did notice that my intercooler was relatively clean on the inside and the turbo inlet tube is stout and direct. I was thinking about an intake and turbo inlet, but now that I have had a good look, I just don't see the benefit of the inlet, round or oval it is all about the space for flow and the stock has plenty. The air box on the other hand...sucks. I am a noob to turbo but not to engines. I do think an intercooler with a tad more thickness and a less sharp inlet angle would be of benefit but I don't know if FMIC is the answer. Seems like a long tube distance...that would greatly increase lag, just like in an NA engine...people make the mistake of tubing the crap out of the intake...cold air at the end of a long reach...isn't going to help that much...but the ability to breath easily in an instant, that is what can make snappy throttle. I could be wrong...haven't dealt with forced induction before this.