GT vs BNR

[ckMS3]

I don't know why were comparing stock k04's to bt's dd ability now, isn't this about the BNR? Now I have never driven a gt30+ speed before, but I love the driveability of the BNR. IMO it's the perfect dd turbo along with the gt28, it has slow enough spool so your not always into boost when just cruising around, but give a bit of gas when you feel like it around town and it puts your head back into seat, while having top end as well. And now that I am externally gated holy shit this car is even more fun to drive lol.

From what I've read BNR/GT28/GT2867 are all comparable in power so due to price and ease the BNR wins in my book. Now it comes down to the two best turbos IMO, the BNR and 3071.

The 3071 obviously beats the BNR in terms of power and only spools a nut hair later, but not everyone wants to run e85, meth, and >22psi on the stock block to make 400+. Obviously, you could always keep the torque down on the 3071 to increase the longevity of the engine.

Just trying to make this discussion more fair for my little bnr haha..

[helmetface]

Damn Lex you sure know how to derail a thread in a quick!

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by ckMS3 I don't know why were comparing stock k04's to bt's dd ability now, isn't this about the BNR? Now I have never driven a gt30+ speed before, but I love the driveability of the BNR. IMO it's the perfect dd turbo along with the gt28, it has slow enough spool so your not always into boost when just cruising around, but give a bit of gas when you feel like it around town and it puts your head back into seat, while having top end as well. And now that I am externally gated holy shit this car is even more fun to drive lol. From what I've read BNR/GT28/GT2867 are all comparable in power so due to price and ease the BNR wins in my book. Now it comes down to the two best turbos IMO, the BNR and 3071. The 3071 obviously beats the BNR in terms of power and only spools a nut hair later, but not everyone wants to run e85, meth, and >22psi on the stock block to make 400+. Obviously, you could always keep the torque down on the 3071 to increase the longevity of the engine. Just trying to make this discussion more fair for my little bnr haha..

True, we are sitting here with a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but i think its the "moderation" factor of the 3071 that makes it comparable to the BNR when you take things like "stock fueling" and "stock block" into consideration. we just need a BNR vs 3071 day haha line em up and let your cars do the talking ! ... dibs on not racing atvfreek

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Also a second point i would like to make (and not to bash rfinkle2 because i know this is the turbo you've chosen for your application) but i feel the gtx2867 is a bit of a red headed step child in this comparison and here's why. People concerned with a noticeable bump in power and still wanting quick spool, ease of drop in and everything, the BNR S3 is right up their ally. People wanting a larger bump and willing to take an ever so slight hit in spool will opt for the 3071, now where does the GTX2867 fall into this? It is said the 2867 will spool like a BNR S3 but pull like a 3071 ... i find that hard to believe, it is a smaller turbo, it will flow less air? Also, thats a $1700 turbo where the BNR S3 is $1100 and the GT3071R is $1500 and the GTX3071r is also $1700 if im not mistaken... yes i wanted the 2867 when eric@edgeautosport first introduced them, i was beyond ecstatic, but then i got to thinking... i can have a larger turbo for less money. It just kind of seems to be the odd man out in this case, if it was maybe $1300-$1400 this comparison would be no contest but its not soooo ....

Looking @ the compressor maps, I agree with 90% of what you are saying, but I actually chose this turbo for overkill @ 350-360 hp.

This turbo will flow a little bit more air up top than the 2871 or the BNR s3, @ least from looking @ the compressor maps.

Damned if I do, and damned if I don't. LOL.

TBH, I kinda wanted the red headed step child. I didn't want to get the same old things that all of us have.

If I don't like it's characteristics, I'll yank it and sell it.

I'd prefer the Borg Warner s256 over all of these turbos tbh, but I'm not into the EWG thing, and don't want to get into a custom plumb back exhaust etc.

I understand how guys would be, but it isn't for me.

[IshiKage]

Damn it, Lex. Now Im looking at the GT3071. Sweet.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Looking @ the compressor maps, I agree with 90% of what you are saying, but I actually chose this turbo for overkill @ 350-360 hp. This turbo will flow a little bit more air up top than the 2871 or the BNR s3, @ least from looking @ the compressor maps. TBH, I kinda wanted the red headed step child. I didn't want to get the same old things that all of us have.

Just dont make enough power to make me regret not taking you up that trade haha. No honestly if a 2867 mazda came up next to me and wanted to run i know id have a damn good race on my hands, for the 380-400 whp range we're talking about i do feel its safe to say any of these turbos would come down to a tune / drivers race as well as supporting mods. Ported intake, manifold choice, octane (and thus timing curve), and such things more so than the turbos themselves.

[ckMS3]

Originally Posted by Voltwings True, we are sitting here with a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but i think its the "moderation" factor of the 3071 that makes it comparable to the BNR when you take things like "stock fueling" and "stock block" into consideration. we just need a BNR vs 3071 day haha line em up and let your cars do the talking ! ... dibs on not racing atvfreek

I'm all for a a BNR vs 3071 day ill take atvfreek tuner vs tunee haha. You 3071 guys should definitely pull in the top end, but we may be able to hold you off just long enough. lol

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by helmetface Damn Lex you sure know how to derail a thread in a quick!

This thread never started on the train tracks lol

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by ckMS3 I'm all for a a BNR vs 3071 day ill take atvfreek tuner vs tunee haha. You 3071 guys should definitely pull in the top end, but we may be able to hold you off just long enough. lol

and thats the interesting part, if we're sitting here talking apples to apples, stock engine, stock fueling, how significant of a pull would it be, if i put a nose on a BNR car in 5th gear and we started in 3rd, then perhaps the BNR is the go to turbo for (IN TERMS OF FUEL AND ENGINE) stock applications, but if its 1+ cars and/or pulling.... we had a Houston local just recently go BNR S3, maybe i need to bust his balls and set something up haha.

[Dano]

This thread within 4 posts of OP

[ckMS3]

Originally Posted by Voltwings and thats the interesting part, if we're sitting here talking apples to apples, stock engine, stock fueling, how significant of a pull would it be, if i put a nose on a BNR car in 5th gear and we started in 3rd, then perhaps the BNR is the go to turbo for (IN TERMS OF FUEL AND ENGINE) stock applications, but if its 1+ cars and/or pulling.... we had a Houston local just recently go BNR S3, maybe i need to bust his balls and set something up haha.

Don't beat him too bad haha. Like you said it could come down to the driver and supporting mods like a ported im, larger intake, and the list goes on. From what Ive seen as far as 60-100 times it would be a good race. I personally am in the 4.7 range in 80-90* amb and I've seen gtx3071 and gt3071's running meth, e85, and 22-24 psi run the same. Again too many factors different road, humidity, etc...just need a race already lol.

[StayBroke]

If you guys race bnr vs gt...they both need the same gas or meth content to be exact. That being said, I got dibs on a gt series.

[ckMS3]

Originally Posted by StayBroke If you guys race bnr vs gt...they both need the same gas or meth content to be exact. That being said, I got dibs on a gt series.

Ask any real racer, you race what you brought there are no rules lol..and a gt3071 costs more to begin with..

[Lex]

Originally Posted by helmetface Damn Lex you sure know how to derail a thread in a quick!

Made 2 comments in this entire thread ...

1. Know what your end goal is before jumping into anything since everything has a positive and a negative side.
2. I personally like the GT28/BNR and GT3071 BTs for the DISI - especially on stock block and stock fueling system.

That doesn't mean there won't be someone that likes the GT35 or that likes a K03.

Edit:

Everyone should go have a beer and continue such discussions there - it's Friday!

[Ziggo]

There is always something not even unless you run both turbos on the same car.
Dano you might just get the crown, the strip cancelled their test n tune again this weekend. They are trying to force me to buy dyno time I think.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Ziggo There is always something not even unless you run both turbos on the same car. Dano you might just get the crown, the strip cancelled their test n tune again this weekend. They are trying to force me to buy dyno time I think.

hahah dood I don't even have time to complete my MAF cal over here...day jobs suck!

I have driven my car 4 miles this week...not good for getting LTFT filled in.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Dano This thread within 4 posts of OP

[Dano]

haha...not pointing to anyone in particular but come to think of it.....

quit putting up cute smiles and get busy sourcing parts and tools.

[helmetface]

Originally Posted by Lex Made 2 comments in this entire thread ... 1. Know what your end goal is before jumping into anything since everything has a positive and a negative side. 2. I personally like the GT28/BNR and GT3071 BTs for the DISI - especially on stock block and stock fueling system. That doesn't mean there won't be someone that likes the GT35 or that likes a K03. Edit: Everyone should go have a beer and continue such discussions there - it's Friday!

Just to clarify, it wasn't criticism. Well, not negative anyhow. More so an attestment to your knowledge and how it known around here.

[Ziggo]

I don't know how you have any upgraded turbo that long and not put it on. Its literally night and day when compared to the k04.

[silvapain]

I loved being able to hit 22+ psi before 3000 RPM on my K04.

My engine apparently didn't care for it much, however.


Tapadatass

[rfinkle2]

Just act like I don't have the turbo and we'll all be happy.

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by Ziggo I don't know how you have any upgraded turbo that long and not put it on. Its literally night and day when compared to the k04.

I had a 3071 sitting in my garage for 6+ months

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Just act like I don't have the turbo and we'll all be happy.

Hmm, I had my beaner in my trunk for like almost 10 days before it got installed.

[rfinkle2]

Members with BT who installed immediately > rfinkle2.

I admit defeat.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Members with BT who installed immediately > rfinkle2. I admit defeat.

Well I was bullied into installing it sooner, but I wanted to use a garage that I could monopolize for a weekend if needed.

[StayBroke]

Originally Posted by ckMS3 Ask any real racer, you race what you brought there are no rules lol..and a gt3071 costs more to begin with..

Yea i no but this race is going to show everything people want to no.

I say do pump gas to show what these things can do for people that dont have aux fuel.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Dano This is the perfect boost curve for traction on my setup. yes I can still break traction in 3rd with this but its not totally uncontrollable like it was when I was targeting 20PSI at 3200.

I have a similar TQ curve with the GTX3071 around spool up...



300 ft-lbs by 3000rpm and 380 ft-lbs by 3500rpms (and I could have more if I wanted)...

"What lag" would be my comment....

Honestly, I was a huge BNR3 supporter and almost got one...I was concerned with the lag until I actually installed the GTX3071...now I just think it is so freaking awesome.

Of course, the BNR3 is a nice turbo as well...no hate here...

[Lex]

In terms of response, the nice thing about the ATP turbos is that they maintain a small turbine housing A/R which enhances transient response and spool.
cld12pk2go, did you brace the turbine housing from underneath?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Lex In terms of response, the nice thing about the ATP turbos is that they maintain a small turbine housing A/R which enhances transient response and spool. cld12pk2go, did you brace the turbine housing from underneath?

Yes.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Lex In terms of response, the nice thing about the ATP turbos is that they maintain a small turbine housing A/R which enhances transient response and spool. cld12pk2go, did you brace the turbine housing from underneath?

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Yes.

Photo from cld12pk2go's thread:

[Monotonous ONE]

finkle...how hard is it to just install the goddamn turbo?

so what if something comes up and you need to leave immediately. take the truck instead.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Voltwings True, we are sitting here with a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, but i think its the "moderation" factor of the 3071 that makes it comparable to the BNR when you take things like "stock fueling" and "stock block" into consideration. we just need a BNR vs 3071 day haha line em up and let your cars do the talking ! ... dibs on not racing atvfreek

I should be lining up with dantes5823 when we all get together for the PA dyno day, and he is running a gtx3071. He is running a little more boost than I can run in the BNR, but I think it will be a good run.

rfinkle2, I'm definitely down with doing some logs out there too, so we can compare to the actual dyno. I have compared several logs on the same day that I dynoed the k04 and the numbers matched almost perfectly to the 1.01CF.

Edit: If comparing lag between a BNR and 3071, it's almost negligible. Most 3071 can have 20+psi by 3300 rpms in 4th gear. 3076's can have 20+psi by 3400 rpms, and the BNR is a little faster at 3200rpms. So I'm sure in the car itself, you really wouldn't even feel that difference.

My personal preference for turbos would either be the BNR or 3071. I feel the same as lex and think they are the best fit for our cars.

[aviator79]

Originally Posted by SarcasticOne I had a 3071 sitting in my garage for 6+ months

I had a BNIB 3071 for over a year. Kicking myself for selling it.

[dantes5823]

I second atvfreek. Even when I build my motor I plan on sticking with this turbo. Might be changing flanges but that's it. This is a fun turbo and plenty fun on the street.

I'm pretty excited to see what I'm really putting down. I did lower timing by a degree at 4-4500 cause I was consistently seeing over 400 torque at that point. So better safe than zzb. It also helped the rip out of hand spool up torque steer. And our pull should be pretty damn close. I'm excited!

[Mikey]

Here is a VD of where atvfreek is with so far on my GT3071 on 4 gallons of Corn. Hopefully have my meth kit installed tomorrow to get it close to close to 400 if not a lil more. My BATS are keeping me at bay.

[mituc]

I see that always people are more concerned about "when" rather than "how much" on a particular application.

Yes, a big turbo will spool later meaning it will not achieve the maximum targeted boost until a bit later. However, before the max spool rpm threshold it will still push a decent amount of boost.
I remember when I was spinning tires in 3rd gear on a 100% stock car at 14PSI of boost around 3000rpm just because the turbo was spooling too fast and the boost was coming too sudden. With the GTX30 I have about the same amount of boost as low as 3000rpm but it comes more gradually.

And I believe no one is really missing the boost K04 was making around 2300-2600rpm, right?

On the other hand in the upper rev range we move to the other side of the "when versus how much" problem. Yes, probably a GT/GTX 28 will flow and pull as much as a gt/gtx 30 and that's just because on a stock block and/or with the stock fueling system you can't really push the GT30's further in their efficiency map. So what's the point of having a turbo capable of 30PSI if you can't use more than like 26, and why not get one capable of "only" 28 PSI that will also spool faster and use it also at 26PSI?
By example my setup is 100% on pump gas and I want to keep it that way. I plan to go forged just for the peace of mind, but that will not bring me too much more power, even with upgraded injectors, unless I add meth or E85 which I don't intend at this moment. So in my case a GTX28 would have probably been more appropriate, just that it was released a month later after I acquired my GTX3071 kit.
Now I reach full boost around 3600-3700rpm but still have like 12-14psi around 3000rpm, with a GTX28 full boost probably could happen around 3100-3200 which is a pretty decent gain if the engine is strong enough to handle it at that still low RPM. And these turbo's are both capable of 24-26PSI up top as far as I know, so... why not go with a slightly smaller turbo capable on a wider rev range?
Of course, things change in the favor of the larger turbo's when you start upping the percentage of E85 and eventually spray a ton of meth. But I guess that's right at the edge of what "street legal" means pretty much anywhere in the world - for those who really want their cars to be as street legal as possible.

Someone smart once said "there's no replacement for displacement" and even today this stands. Even this days when the turboed motors are very popular and the displacement is upped by the boost, you can't add too much boost because at some point you'll meet that threshold when horsepower are lost because you need to pull back too much timing.

So on pump gas we are knock limited (we can up that limit with meth/E85 though) so no matter how much the turbo flows it matters more how much it will flow on our motors and the tunes we have. And on a stock motor, stock fueling system and pump gas there may be no noticeable difference between these turbo's in therms of power (they will feel different though).

[cld12pk2go]

Worked up my bottom end torque some more...

Overshot some, was only looking for ~410wtq at 3500-4000...

[86azms3]

There is waaay too much thinking and debate here. Just ditch the k04 and you'll be happy.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go

Why does your torque curve start to fall? Aren't they supposed to continue rising to redline?