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 Old 01-25-2014, 02:52 PM   #201
 
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That is not the hpfp failing as it only dips for one cell. That is a connection issue either at the fuel rail pressure sensor or a connector inline. I found mine at the harness connector near the left side of the VC
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 Old 01-25-2014, 02:55 PM   #202
 
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Originally Posted by atvfreek View Post
That is not the hpfp failing as it only dips for one cell. That is a connection issue either at the fuel rail pressure sensor or a connector inline. I found mine at the harness connector near the left side of the VC
Can the spark misfires be caused by it or is this unrelated?

Edit: Found the relevant thread here, will try tomorrow and see if the fix works.
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 Old 01-26-2014, 05:54 AM   #203
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Are you certain that you had enough fuel in the tank that it wasn't sloshing around and starving the in tank pump?
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 Old 01-26-2014, 01:03 PM   #204
 
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Nope, fuel tank was almost full. The only stock heat range plugs I could get in town were Autolite Iridiums XP5364, swapped those in and am still misfiring like crazy. See the attached log, time from about 176-183 when I am coming out of a turn and accelerating. As you can see I do not go WOT, just roll on the throttle and this is where I have misfires. WOT runs usually look good. I will order ITV-20s in stock heat range but I do not think this is the only cause of the problem at this point. Is it possible an injector may be fucked? I have no idea at this point.
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File Type: csv datalog5.csv (290.4 KB, 4 views)
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 Old 01-28-2014, 01:45 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Nope, fuel tank was almost full. The only stock heat range plugs I could get in town were Autolite Iridiums XP5364, swapped those in and am still misfiring like crazy. See the attached log, time from about 176-183 when I am coming out of a turn and accelerating. As you can see I do not go WOT, just roll on the throttle and this is where I have misfires. WOT runs usually look good. I will order ITV-20s in stock heat range but I do not think this is the only cause of the problem at this point. Is it possible an injector may be fucked? I have no idea at this point.
Looking at rows 1508 and 1509 I see some significant dips and jumps in your MAF value. This triggers similar dips and jumps in your fueling and is probably the cause of the misfires.

I am not sure what intake you are using.

I would start by making sure you are not getting some hose opening up a leak on the intake when cornerning.

I would look at the MAF oring

Finally, if you're running a very big intake/MAF try small one and see if the misses go away.
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 Old 01-28-2014, 05:39 PM   #206
 
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Yeah, time to order a new intake, I think the old one expands under heat and lets some air off. It is almost impossible to replicate this behavior on the street as I never generate as much heat as at the track. The plan of action is therefore: 1. new intake, 2. new boost tubes, 3. back to stock BPV.
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 Old 01-28-2014, 07:40 PM   #207
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You're using a sure three inch right? Maybe get something like the HTP that has less silicone.
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 Old 01-28-2014, 07:45 PM   #208
 
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Originally Posted by Easter Bunny View Post
You're using a sure three inch right? Maybe get something like the HTP that has less silicone.
Yes, but it is a fire victim so there is probably a small leak somewhere. The HTP piece will not fit properly, I tried, the coupler pushes the intake too far towards the battery and I am running the Braille 2015, lol.
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 Old 01-28-2014, 07:57 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Yes, but it is a fire victim so there is probably a small leak somewhere. The HTP piece will not fit properly, I tried, the coupler pushes the intake too far towards the battery and I am running the Braille 2015, lol.
A battery relocation to the trunk would help out that weight distribution It's nice not having it up there!
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 Old 01-28-2014, 08:09 PM   #210
 
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Originally Posted by phate View Post
A battery relocation to the trunk would help out that weight distribution It's nice not having it up there!
Meh, with a small battery I have so much space I could run a 6" intake.
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 Old 01-31-2014, 07:31 AM   #211
 
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I've got an HTP 3" (iirc) and Braille B2015 too. I trimmed down the battery tray to make it fit better but it fit okay without the trimming. Just passing along some info.

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 Old 01-31-2014, 07:34 AM   #212
 
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Originally Posted by Lewis7789 View Post
I've got an HTP 3" (iirc) and Braille B2015 too. I trimmed down the battery tray to make it fit better but it fit okay without the trimming. Just passing along some info.
Nah, this is how you do it.
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 Old 01-31-2014, 07:41 AM   #213
 
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Yep! Yours looks MUCH better than my setup. haha
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 Old 02-23-2014, 05:01 PM   #214
 
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Ok, I think the car is finally running fine.

I cleaned the fuel rail sensor and those weird HPFP dips are gone! I also reverted back to one-step colder plugs, I cleaned then with a wire brush and B12. No part-throttle misfires so far! There is a lot of gunk around the PS pump as I have a small leak there again and maybe the fuel rail sensor got some of it?

In any case, I just did 50 miles and sent Justin MAF logs and WOT logs, the next track weekend is March 8-9.
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 Old 03-08-2014, 07:47 PM   #215
 
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Went to the track today, the misfires are gone, had some good laps, I am finally getting closer to where I always wanted to be time-wise, a consistent 2:03 per lap. Today's times from 2 and 1/2 sessions were:

Code:
2:03.729
2:03.113
2:04.633
2:04.798
2:04.658
2:04.751
--------
2:05.111
2:03.754
2:06.098
2:05.603
--------
2:04.122
2:03.932
2:03.778
2:06.218
2:08.396
2:06.835
2:04.445
I think those 2:06's and 2:08 are when I was stuck behind someone for a couple turns or had an oops moment, I have to go back and review the videos.

Here is a short clip of moments and here is one .
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 Old 03-08-2014, 11:02 PM   #216
 
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Great video's.

Quick question. I see you seem to only have a Cobb V3 for monitoring.

Whats your screen setup and do you find the V3 alone is enough for what you want to monitor?

I'm getting back into lapping and currently planning what I need to get my MS6 ready.
I was considering selling my Cobb V2 and buying a V3 for monitoring.

Other option would be to get a bluetooth OBD2 unit and using an app on my google Nexus 7... Which I can easily sandwitch in the map box and probably fix it up so it wont move.
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 Old 03-09-2014, 06:11 AM   #217
 
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Originally Posted by SpICeZ View Post
Whats your screen setup and do you find the V3 alone is enough for what you want to monitor?
The v3 is still relatively useless for live monitoring. When it is sunny outside, you can see shit on the screen, maybe it you put the AP inside of a box for extra shade you could see something. When I can see, I glance at the AP on the main straightaway, but really I do not pay much attention to it, I log all sessions and analyze later at home. I guess if you set an alarm for, let's say, ECT > 235 and the whole screen started flashing maybe you would see it in bright sun, but I am not sure. At some point I will put some mechanical gauges in but will still use the AP for logging.

Edit: Right now I am displaying boost, BATs, KR, ECT, AFR and I still have MAF that I forgot to turn off from doing a MAF calibration logs.
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 Old 03-09-2014, 07:32 AM   #218
 
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Thanks for the reply. I can see what you mean, on a sunny day it would be a little hard to see.
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 Old 03-09-2014, 10:34 AM   #219
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Any word on your coil overs?
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 Old 03-09-2014, 01:19 PM   #220
 
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Originally Posted by phate View Post
Any word on your coil overs?
I will be emailing Shaikh later today. I really need stiffer suspension, at 2:10-2:11 lap times I was previously running, the car was meh but I could get by. At the 2:03-2:04 times I feel like I am on a boat again.
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 Old 03-09-2014, 02:52 PM   #221
 
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So it was premature optimism re: car running well.

Saturday was perfect.

Then it rained most of the night and today morning, my car is parked on a slight incline with the front higher. Around lunch time, I jumped in the car, I have about 3 miles to the highway, took an on ramp, punched the car in 3rd, and got some misfires.

Got to the track, did one session, started misfiring after a few laps. Came off, went for another session for 2 laps just to log. Looking at the attached log, starting at row 905 when I got really bad misfires, the fuel pressure dips for a couple cells. So I am back to where I was.

I did simple scatter plots of fuel pressure vs boost for boost over 2 psi and I am pretty sure this is the culprit behind the misfires. On the three scatter plots for Saturday sessions, fuel pressure basically stays above 1600 psi all the time. On the Sunday scatter plot, you can clearly see the dips in fuel pressure.

What is the best course of action from here? I will clean the fuel pressure sensor again, but it looks that the connection at the sensor went funky overnight with the car parked out in the rain. I have a small leak from the power steering so some gunk may be hitting the connector as well. In terms of replacing parts, should I buy another sensor/fuel rail? Can it be the harness/connector? Can it be the fuel pump itself? From the perfect logs on Saturday I am betting on an electrical problem. I will pull the plugs tomorrow and if the threads are gunky I will get a new valve cover gasket.

Is it possible there is some moisture creeping in into the connector at the sensor? Saturday session were in perfect dry weather.

Edit: The HPHP sensor voltage is showing 0 all the time, I cannot compare it to earlier logs as I started logging this parameter only today. I also just checked the sensor voltage with the car in ACC and it is showing 0, started the car and let it idle, also showing 0, searching the forum for a solution now.

Edit 2: I found some old logs from 1.5 years ago, the HPFP voltage is changing all the time so my HPFP sensor must be fucked or maybe dirty -- will investigate further tomorrow.

@atvfreek; @Lex; @phate; @silvapain; any words of wisdom guys? Thanks.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf saturday_1.pdf (226.6 KB, 29 views)
File Type: pdf saturday_2.pdf (121.3 KB, 25 views)
File Type: pdf saturday_3.pdf (250.7 KB, 24 views)
File Type: pdf sunday_1.pdf (24.0 KB, 35 views)
File Type: csv datalog3.csv (195.5 KB, 4 views)
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 Old 03-13-2014, 09:19 PM   #222
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I haven't read earlier in the thread but have you ruled out the pump internals and relief valve?

In tank pump and filter?
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 Old 03-14-2014, 11:48 AM   #223
 
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Originally Posted by Lex View Post
I haven't read earlier in the thread but have you ruled out the pump internals and relief valve?

In tank pump and filter?
I got a call from my shop -- I have continuity from the fuel pressure sensor connector to the ECU, so the harnesses are good. What is weird is that Cobb AP is still showing 0 volts, but Bill connected his SnapOn diagnostic tool to the ECU and it is showing 1.4-1.6 volts when the car is in the ON position, and then when you idle and rev, the voltage is 1.4-3.5.

I am on the APv3, btw.

Can someone with a speed6 please check their hpfp voltage with the car in the ON position and when it idles? @phate; @Alpha; @alphasaur; @BZiggy10; @06Speed6;

The voltage on a speed3 is of no help, on a gen1 it is 2.9-3.0 volts in the ON position, I guess the ECU logic is different on the speed6.

Bill thinks the issue may be mechanical -- maybe the HPFP is binding under certain conditions?

Is there a way to test the in-tank fuel pump? I guess I will just buy a new one anyway.

I have a spare fuel pressure sensor but Bill said not to fuck with it as it should be good.
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 Old 03-14-2014, 11:50 AM   #224
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Rig a fuel pressure gauge with a T on the low pressure line feeding the HPFP to test the in tank pump.
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 Old 03-14-2014, 12:39 PM   #225
 
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To test the in tank pump just do this....

If you look at the cover for the relay/fuse diagram it is the third one down far left called "Circuit Relay"

HOW TO: Drain Fuel Tank
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 Old 03-14-2014, 01:57 PM   #226
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
I got a call from my shop -- I have continuity from the fuel pressure sensor connector to the ECU, so the harnesses are good. What is weird is that Cobb AP is still showing 0 volts, but Bill connected his SnapOn diagnostic tool to the ECU and it is showing 1.4-1.6 volts when the car is in the ON position, and then when you idle and rev, the voltage is 1.4-3.5.

I am on the APv3, btw.

Can someone with a speed6 please check their hpfp voltage with the car in the ON position and when it idles?
Bill thinks the issue may be mechanical -- maybe the HPFP is binding under certain conditions?

Is there a way to test the in-tank fuel pump? I guess I will just buy a new one anyway.

I have a spare fuel pressure sensor but Bill said not to fuck with it as it should be good.
APv3 car in on position is 0 volts
and cold start 0 votls

You did a rail valve test?
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 Old 03-14-2014, 01:59 PM   #227
 
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Originally Posted by Lakespeed6 View Post
APv3 car in on position is 0 volts
and cold start 0 votls

You did a rail valve test?
So it may be a software bug, not a faulty fuel pressure sensor, I will contact Cobb about it.

How do you test relief valve, I will look it up.
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 Old 03-14-2014, 02:02 PM   #228
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
So it may be a software bug, not a faulty fuel pressure sensor, I will contact Cobb about it.
Guess so.
Although my car has never been a model citizen in the fuel department.

rail valve test:
warm up the car monitor HPFP presser.
shut car off and turn key to on position.
If the pressure builds from the 450 you are good.
If it quickly drops to 0 the rail/relief valve is bad.

Just tested mine, was not fully warm was around 600-650psi when I shut the car off. About 1 min later up to 1800psi before it slowly started dropping.
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 Old 03-14-2014, 02:11 PM   #229
 
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Originally Posted by Lakespeed6 View Post
Just tested mine, was not fully warm was around 600-650psi when I shut the car off. About 1 min later up to 1800psi before it slowly started dropping.
Would a bad relief valve cause those weird pressure drops in the HPFP? I guess it is time to order new internals.
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 Old 03-14-2014, 02:15 PM   #230
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Would a bad relief valve cause those weird pressure drops in the HPFP? I guess it is time to order new internals.
Probably not, normally just causes a dip under high loads.
Although mine did fluctuate a little since it would get stuck once in a while.
Basically it is just a quick easy check so you can rule something else out.

Bad internals normally don't cause a random dip either, normally points to connection issue.
Any good friends around you can swap a pump with?
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 Old 03-14-2014, 04:23 PM   #231
 
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Not too many speeds in town + I do not really want to bother people with swapping fuel pumps, not everybody is comfortable with it I bet.

This whole saga finally motivated me to mount a fire extinguisher in the car.
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 Old 03-14-2014, 05:05 PM   #232
 
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@Lakespeed6; I drove and idled the car for a bit, the coolant temps were 190. On the idling car, the fuel pressure was about 430 psi. Then I shut the car off and put it immediately back on into the ON position, fuel pressure was still at 430 psi and slowly falling to 60 psi over like 10 minutes or so. There is a min/max display as well on the Cobb AP, and the max showed 1410, so I guess fuel pressure hit this for a split second and them immediately reverted to 430 and started tapering off towards 60. I guess this means the relief valve is bad?
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 Old 03-14-2014, 08:07 PM   #233
 
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Last time I watched my fuel pressure after shutting the car off, it stayed at idle pressure and slowly dropped from there. I'll test it again soon and post my results.
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 Old 03-14-2014, 08:18 PM   #234
 
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Originally Posted by sidekick View Post
Last time I watched my fuel pressure after shutting the car off, it stayed at idle pressure and slowly dropped from there. I'll test it again soon and post my results.
I may have some bad news for you then. I just swapped in the relief valve @phate; sent me, warmed the car up, went for a ride, did some WOT logs, came back, shut the car off, and I am watching fuel pressure now. It has been building for the last 10 minutes or so, from 430 psi to 1253 as we speak, will log for another 10 minutes and post a graph.
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 Old 03-14-2014, 08:37 PM   #235
 
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@sidekick; here's a graph of fuel pressure after I drove the car for maybe 30 mins, after turning the car off and putting it in the ON position, fuel pressure slowly built up to 1,268 and then started falling down slow as well. The last data point at t = 21:02 is still 1067.
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File Type: pdf hpfp_log6.pdf (34.9 KB, 22 views)
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 Old 03-14-2014, 10:48 PM   #236
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
@sidekick; here's a graph of fuel pressure after I drove the car for maybe 30 mins, after turning the car off and putting it in the ON position, fuel pressure slowly built up to 1,268 and then started falling down slow as well. The last data point at t = 21:02 is still 1067.

Lol fuck. More shit to fix. I just noticed a chirping noise coming from the relief valve area today as well, sounds like that's probably my issue. Awesome.

Here I was trying to help you figure out your issue and instead you figured out mine. Thank you for taking the time to make that graph and check it out!
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 Old 03-15-2014, 05:39 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
Not too many speeds in town + I do not really want to bother people with swapping fuel pumps, not everybody is comfortable with it I bet.

This whole saga finally motivated me to mount a fire extinguisher in the car.
Wait a minute the fire wasn't enough motivation?
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 Old 03-15-2014, 11:06 AM   #238
 
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Originally Posted by Easter Bunny View Post
Wait a minute the fire wasn't enough motivation?
Yeah, but the fire extinguisher was always on the passenger's seat, not mounted as it should, now it's taken care of.
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 Old 03-16-2014, 06:25 PM   #239
 
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Originally Posted by Code Monkey View Post
@Lakespeed6; I drove and idled the car for a bit, the coolant temps were 190. On the idling car, the fuel pressure was about 430 psi. Then I shut the car off and put it immediately back on into the ON position, fuel pressure was still at 430 psi and slowly falling to 60 psi over like 10 minutes or so. There is a min/max display as well on the Cobb AP, and the max showed 1410, so I guess fuel pressure hit this for a split second and them immediately reverted to 430 and started tapering off towards 60. I guess this means the relief valve is bad?
Sorry was offline for the weekend. Hope this was your root cause than.
Any issues with the WOT logs or other fuel dips?
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 Old 03-16-2014, 06:45 PM   #240
 
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Originally Posted by Lakespeed6 View Post
Sorry was offline for the weekend. Hope this was your root cause than.
Any issues with the WOT logs or other fuel dips?
No problem. I hope that was it, will have to wait until April 20th to really test it at the track but I am pretty certain the car will do fine.
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