Spring vs. Hypertech?
 

So I'm trying to decide how to spend $180 cash I got for Christmas. I've narrowed it down to either a used Hypertech for around 180-200, or a used set of h&r springs for around 150. Here are current speca/mods.

2009 Mazdaspeed3, black
black msr wheels
Cobb sri
Sure ssp
Tinted tails, reflectors.
Blacked out headlight chrome
20% tint

Budget is pretty tight, so please don't tell me to get coilovers, lol. Thanks.

rear sway bar.

Rear motor mount.

RMM if you don't have one, then a RSB. Don't even entertain the idea of hypertech. Go Cobb.


Give it a little tap, a tap tap tap-a-roo

Save your money for an AP or fuel pump internals.

Springs if your seriously considering the weak support that comes with that hypertech.

Lol @ hypertech

hypertech is weak shit, get a rmm... chrome-molly from @jbarone;

^^^You wanna do what this guy's telling you^^^


Then save the rest for an AP.

if you get springs you'll need new struts and shocks soon....if you get a hypertech you're going to want the ap instead.

RMM is the best option IMO. RSB is fantastic as well, my @jbarone; RSB transformed the handling of my car

JBR RSB FTMFW. that is all.

WHy is the Hypertech even brought up still?? :damnit:

To OP: You cant mention HT on the forum without getting chewed out. I haz HT and its pretty nice over stock. But consider it a gateway tune....your going to end up wanting AP down the road anyways so just save yourself the trouble and go straight for AP. But for now get a JBR 80 Duro RMM and an Ebay test pipe, best you can do at this point with $180. Then get FP internals and AP....then PERM, then tell me how awesome it is so I will be motivated to get AP and do that same thing....Do as I say not as I do :crazy:

Thanks for the input everyone. Idk what I'm going to do, but I really appreciate all the help.

Do not waist your money on the hyperfail. Its just a paper weight.

If you get hypertech, you should just go ahead and kick a dent in your car.

That's funny shit.

In before @MSMS3; and his hypertech unicorn.

Learn to spell "waste" before you give out anymore advice.

Get the springs... Don't even consider Hypetech, I made that mistake a long time ago... :(
The motor mount is an awesome mod - great value and easy DIY install :)

RMM or a descent OCC. FTW!

Springs need to be accompanied with aftermarket struts and camber arms...and the HT shouldn't even be considered. Good luck!

Get yourself a rmm cuz. I've also got the jbr chromoly rmm and rear sway bar and its legit.

Man I love nerds... like i give a fuck, specially when I use my phone to post.. Go get laid.

OP, the Hypertech bashers are largely ignorant of what HT actual does and how it works. You have a Gen 1 MS3. On Gen 2 cars, on MS6's and on Euro versions, I would agree with those bashers, because HT has had to soften the tune to deal with Gen 2 issues with fuel rail pressure on the stock pump. HT seems not to have addressed subtle differences in stock ECU tuning on the Speed 6 and the Euro versions. HT's R&D seems to be heavily invested in the Gen1 Speed3. That's the car you have.

On Gen 1 cars, I'll say some good things about HT, which I can back up objectively and which seem to need repeating because of the "snooty" fanboi AP bashing:

1. It is safe. I repeat it is SAFE with all bolt on mods. The AP fanbois cannot say that about their choice. AP costs more and careless use or failure to customize the shitty OTS AP maps (yeah I don't have to own an AP to read the dozens if not hundreds of threads here with guys struggling to get rid of high levels of knock retard, unsafe overboosting, fuel or load cut, too lean AFR's and such).

2. It will produce about 95% of the maximum capabilities of a custom AP map, if you are going to stick with the stock turbo and run pump gas. Admittedly, if you plan to change to a bigger turbo, run aftermarket intake or exhaust manifolds, run a three port EBCS, or run exotic fuel mixes (E85, for example) then absolutely, AP would be the route to go.

3. It is plug and play. You do not have to spend a lot of time and endure the steep learing curve to custom tune AP to be both safe and produce marginally better power on pump gas and stock turbo.

4. It works extremely well with any ordinary bolt ons, even including 3 inch catless dp/rp.

5. It even corrects for overboost when running mods that might otherwise exceed a 2.0 load.


6. It give a serious increase in power with you only having to choose the correct intake in the menu to calibrate your maf properly, while maintaining all the stock safety features.

7. It has many of AP's "extra" features, such as ability to raise idle rpm, which is great to eliminate or greatly reduce vibration of you are running a stiffer rear motor mount, or if you want to reduce the so-called "smoking turbo" issue that some Gen 1 MS3's have. It can also raise the top speed limit beyond 155 mph, if you are so inclined to want to drive that fast! And, of course, it also can remove the power restriction of the stock ECU below 60 mph, giving you access to full boost in first and second gear.

8. You get usable power all the way out to redline with HT instead of the "fall off the cliff" stock ECU when you go past 5,500 rpm. This is hugely beneficial. HT does this with very aggressive timing advance at high load, high rpm conditions. This timing advance, typically showing in the 18 degree range, is far more aggressive than any OTS AP tune. It is done by tapering the boost and keeping the turbo inside its efficiency range with fatter AFR's for cylinder cooling benefits that let the timing get aggressively advanced without resultant knock or damaging exhaust gas temperatures.

9. With proper mods, your car will not be a "Unicorn" as suggested by one or more posts in this thread. Mine is not "unicorn" either and never will be. It's just a carefully chosen and matched group of sensible bolt on mods that with Hypertech can surprise some people. With my mods, I am regularly able to do the following:

a. 0-60 is 5.1 to 5.3 seconds
b. 50-75 mph pull in 3rd gear is 2.7-2.8 seconds
c. 60-100 pull in 4th gear is 5.9 to 6.1 seconds
d. 40-120 pull is 12.5 seconds (that is posted as a video on Youtube - just "Google" msms3 and it should come up.

Now, are those big turbo, exotic fuel, "built" engine numbers? Hell, no. They are, however, in the 300-310 whp range with comparable torque. Do they reflect what HT is capable of doing on a Gen 1 MS3 with similar mods. Absolutely. How much better than stock are they? Substantially better. How do they compare with over the shelf AP maps on stock turbo, pump gas Gen 1 cars? Very comparable, typically superior unless the AP user gets a custom tune.

I will admit that much of the power gain came from the CAI and the catless dp/rp. Eliminating the bottle-neck in the stock downpipe and the two stock "low flow" cats, really helps the car breath at higher rpm, high load situations, but doing that on stock tune was not healthy for the car - 21 psi "overboost" which was corrected to 18-19 psi with HT.

My datalogs and Virtual Dyno (VD) charts are posted in various places here and speak for themself.

I find HT's WOT power curve to be softer on the bottom end (below 3,500-4,000 rpm) than most of the VD's for AP tunes that I've reviewed. But HT is very strong "up top" compared to AP user's VD. I actually like the fact that the curve is a bit softer down low, because we have FWD cars that have serious traction problems even at stock power levels. I find extra power at low rpm to be largely useless. My tires break loose now if I go WOT in second gear, so how could I find more power of any real use anyway?

In summary, if you do plan to "go big turbo" or plan to run E85 fuel variants, or such mods beyond simple bolt ons, then I would recommend AP. If you are going to stick with the stock turbo and run only premium grade pump gas, then HT will get you at least 95% of the power of a far more expensive and potentially dangerous AP custom tune.

I can't find an AP tuned stock turbo MS3 on pumo gas here in my local area to do some 40 mph+ rolls against for comparison. I do think it would be interesting, and do believe my modest little HT would hold up well against comparably equipped MS3 running AP.

OP: Try HT. You have a Gen 1 MS3. It works very well for me and will for you. If you decide to go "big" later or run corn blend fuels, you can always sell it and move to AP.

You'll get a lot more bang for the buck from HT than from the other mods suggested, and certainly more that you'd get from used aftermarket springs.

I do agree that upgraded rear motor mount is very important. And if you do decide to upgrade to a 3 inch catless dp/rp, then you will need to upgrade the internals in your fuel pump. AutoTech pump internals are available from at least one vendor here.

Sell HT and buy AP later? sounds like a waste of time when you could just get AP and skip all the nonsense

^ Have you ever owned and used HT? What is your basis for concluding that OP would get better and safer performance from AP than with HT at his mod level? Just curious. Facts are more important than subjective personal opinion.

Nope never wanted to buy one, why would i want to limit myself on a tune? I dont want set values, i want to be able to tweak them at my will, i want to be able to get even more out of it and get it protune, i want to be able to use E when i want to. I got an AP when i just had a intake, tip, and internals, a friend of mine tuned me up and its like i was in a whole new car, can you tweak the tune on a HT? Model level has nothing to do with it, its the possiblities he will have over something that will limit him in the long run, but havin to try to sell that shit and have to drop another 500 on an AP when he could get it all done now...or just wait entirely and get the rest of the necessary mods and continue to save out for AP, instead of "cheaping" out and getting a HT

^ Mod level not important? Maybe you could point me in the direction of an AP equipped gen 1 MS3 with similar mods to mine that makes significantly better power? The limitation is the stock turbo, itself, when you're running pump gas. I think there may be a few very carefully and professionally tuned AP cars similar to mine that might be producing maybe 10 whp more than me in the part of the power band where competition actually occurs.

I see from your personal profile that you are running a Garrett GTX 3071 turbo. Obviously you can't run Hypertech with that. Did OP ever indicate or suggest that he was ever going to go beyond the stock turbo on pump gas? If big turbo or corn fuel is his ultimate goal, I'd agree with you hands down. Otherwise, I don't see how your point of view has any meaning whatsoever, nor any basis for drawing the conclusion.

Just curious about another thing: Do you have any datalogs from AP when you were on your stock turbo and running pump gas? I'd love to compare them.

Cut the quote short.

I'm another HT owner on a Gen1, it's been on my car for a ton of miles and I'm happy with it. Just a CS intake and the HT. Huge improvement over the stock tune. To get the most from an AP, you also need HPFP internals. I'd like to go that route at some point when I have more play money to stick in the car. Even with the HT, the car is borderline on needing a HPFP upgrade. In WI, when the temps drop below freezing, my fuel pressure can't keep up. I'm flashed back to stock again until spring and warmer temps.

Whenever I get the cash for a better tune, there's always that other forum to ditch the HT on.

Unfortuntely not, and just wanna clear things up, im not argueing you to call you wrong in any shape or form, if anything, i could use this to help someone else in similar situation.

I do not still have the logs when i was nearly stock. Ill try to dig them up when i get back on my own computer (on govt comp).

What are your numbers at the moment

Put $180 in bank.
Save more money
when money reaches $500
buy AP.
Infinitely variable tuning for whatever fuel you choose, even on stock fp.
win.

Thank you all for all the info and help. I am not ever going BT or probably even dp. I think I will try the Hypertech. It's not that I can't afford an ap I just like being married and if I spent $500 on something like that my testicles would be listed in the Fs section. I will get a rmm soon as well, although I must say my friend has a trz rmm and the vibes are awful. I respect the opinion of getting the ap and being done, but I hope you can understand my modest goals and budget. Can't thank everyone enough for taking the time to share your opinions.

TRZ mounts are notorious for their vibes. JBR, Sure, Corksport and CP-E all make mounts in with various firmness. I like my JBR 80d. There are still some very minor vibes at idle with the A/C on, but otherwise you wouldn't guess it's not stock.

Thanks, yeah his car shakes like he'll and is noticeably louder inside as well. I've been looking at the sure mount as well as the jbr. I'll get that soon and then probably be set for a while. Thanks again everyone!

^ When you get an upgraded rear mount, go into the HT menu and raise your idle rpm by +200. That works extremely well to reduce the vibes on the Sure rmm that I have.

I had Hypertech--ran rich as a pig on the dyno--sold it on eBay and got the Cobb AP. You get what you pay for--no sense buying junk just because it is cheap. I'd say Cobb and Corsport are the best in the business, really focusing on R&D with our cars and the results show. I had my car on the dyno more times than I can count, and these manufacturers never fail to impress.

Forget springs with the stock shocks--the stock shocks are just too weak to control the stiffer springs. Get sway bars until you can afford quality springs with Koni Yellows, or better yet, coil-overs. Wait till you can afford quality stuff rather than rush to end with junk or compromise. The project will take more time, but you'll end up with a far superior car, that with frequent synthetic oil changes should last you another decade.

Your best bang for the buck is Cobb Stage 1 (93 octane tune), Corksport RMM (only $99 and way quieter than the CP-e and StreetUnit I had on before (barely hear the engine at idle). You're just within the limits of the stock fuel pump up to this point.

The proper sequence would be:
1) Cobb AP Stage 1 93 octane
2) Corksport RMM
3) Forge v1 recirculating BOV, blue spring, no shims
4) Rear or full sway bar kit (I like my Hotchkis, but would also look at Cobb)
5) Cobb springs/Koni yellows, or kw coilovers if budget allows

Once you go to TMIC/FMIC and/or turboback, youl'll need pump internals, and need to add 2 shims to the blue spring in the BOV.

I'm running Full stage 2 Cobb with TMIC, Cobb SRI and airbox, Corksport downpipe with Vibrant flex pipe and resonated midpipe to Cobb cat back exhaust. Forge v1 BOV (blue spring with 2 shims), ITV 22's at .026 and grounded coil packs. With the Corksport RMM, the car is so quiet, that I sometimes inadvertently burn rubber, as there is no noise/NVH whatsoever at/off idle to let me know the car is revving. Mazadspeed springs with Koni Yellows at +1 turn front and rear, Hotchkis sway bar kit. It took about 3 years to get this car dialed in, but I can vouch for these mods resulting in a quiet, civilized sleeper with a big punch. I got a sweet deal on the Mazdaspeed springs, otherwise I'd have gone with Cobb.

^ dont see any internals anywhere on that list....

I haz mods in sig with HT and I use dashhawk to monitor. Ill be honest here, my shit is on point and running great. LTFT's at WOT are +2.8 right now, FP never drops below 1600 PSI boost, AFR, KR and everything else is perfect. I do plan on getting FP internals plus ebay downpipe down the road and will continue to monitor with DH and see how it runs after that. May consider getting AP down the line as well to see just how much i can get out of it, but honestly...if your worried about spending $180 properly....just get HT and enjoy your married life :naughty: