Supertech valve into

[jracer]

So with the duratec exhaust valves and guides from supertech .
Is it a direct fit without any problems.
Just install and adjust valve clearance ?

[jracer]

Celestspeed3

[bcmurphy87]

i would like to know this as well i have a spare head and i have been thinking about building it up

[mzr0818]

same here head waiting for build...

[doubleflusher]

Are you talking about the larger diameter Supertech valves?

[chimmike]

I think it's a direct fit, if you get stock size. Frankly, if you're not going bigger valves, no sense in going with supertechs.

IMO some really big gains can be seen from having the head, ESPECIALLY the exhaust side, hogged out bigtime. I'm sure you can see on that spare block you have.

[jracer]

Stock size valves .. (exhaust )
Supertech is way cheaper than OEM valves ..

[Celestspeed3]

If you check out my build thread it has all the info.

I used Supertech Inconel +1mm exhuast valves, and stock Mazda 2.3 NA valve guides. everything else was the DISI stock valvetrain. Oh I also used Supertech valve seals.

You can use the Supertech bronze guides if you want. I chose not to in order to extend the service life of the built motor. bronze will take more heat away but will wear out faster.

[bcmurphy87]

What about springs and retainers? What do you feel safe reving out to?

[Celestspeed3]

Engine builder said around 7500rpm, but there is no point with these cams. Just stick to 7000rpm.

[bcmurphy87]

Did you not get the web cams?

[phate]

Originally Posted by jracer Stock size valves .. (exhaust ) Supertech is way cheaper than OEM valves ..

OEM may be more expensive for good reason . Just a hunch that I'm investigating.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by phate OEM may be more expensive for good reason . Just a hunch that I'm investigating.

It's still $10-15 cheaper for the supertech inconel valves and guides then just the OEM exhaust valves IIRC

Doing the supertech +1mm intakes and +1mm exhaust(maybe +2mm haven't decided), but my head work is gonna be fairly expensive.

[phate]

Originally Posted by GLORIFIEDBOZO It's still $10-15 cheaper for the supertech inconel valves and guides then just the OEM exhaust valves IIRC Doing the supertech +1mm intakes and +1mm exhaust(maybe +2mm haven't decided), but my head work is gonna be fairly expensive.

Look to be similar price if you have access to Mazda Motorsports.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by phate Look to be similar price if you have access to Mazda Motorsports.

What's the MSM price? A valve and a guide were about $28 +/- $1 when I bought them. that's the brass valve guides, the NA Mazda ones might have been a little more.

[06Speed6]

The oem valves dont honestly hold a candle to the supertech valves.

The retainers I replaced with supertech cromoly, but its totally optional. The springs are good to 12,000+rpm for a n/a car, the problem with boost is that it pushes against the backside of the valve which makes the spring act weaker than it really is so it floats sooner. Someone only running 15psi needs the oem spring while someone running 30-40psi needs a much stronger spring to perform the same as the 15psi car. Hope that makes sence.

[phate]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 The oem valves dont honestly hold a candle to the supertech valves. The retainers I replaced with supertech cromoly, but its totally optional. The springs are good to 12,000+rpm for a n/a car, the problem with boost is that it pushes against the backside of the valve which makes the spring act weaker than it really is so it floats sooner. Someone only running 15psi needs the oem spring while someone running 30-40psi needs a much stronger spring to perform the same as the 15psi car. Hope that makes sence.

Are you talking about boost pressure or exhaust pressure above? I could see it at high rpm, but have we seen power loss because of this? Lots of q's, lol.

What do you mean by "don't hold a candle"?

[Haltech]

Usually, aftermarket valves are choice IF you want to go oversized. Either way these fuckers are expensive. If you are just rebuilding the head with new hardware, OEM is the best route unless you pony up for shit like Ferrea or Crower. But again, if you are headed that route, might as well punch those valves out to as large as can be fitted, esp on the exhaust side of things.

We do need a consolidated thread strictly on engine build parts, with part numbers, measurements/requirements, etc. Its been a long time coming now.

[jracer]

Even not for a huge crazy build .. Just replacing bent valves, supertech is like half the price of OEM ..
So for my case this may be a better choice ..

[JP_Playboy]

This thread has been an on going question for me. Thanks for all the info folks. Subbed for future knowledge.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Haltech We do need a consolidated thread strictly on engine build parts, with part numbers, measurements/requirements, etc. Its been a long time coming now.

I created a parts list with P/N's and prices and put it in my build thread, and it's been expanded upon.

OE Valves:

Intake - L3K9-12-111 $10.01 ea from MSM
Exhaust - L3K9-12-121D $31.34 ea from MSM

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by jracer Even not for a huge crazy build .. Just replacing bent valves, supertech is like half the price of OEM .. So for my case this may be a better choice ..

There is a possibility that OE exhaust valves are made of Inconel, which if they are the price of replacing them with Supertech Inconel valves and the new guides that are required becomes comparable in price. Unless you have to replace guides, it's easier and about the same price to use stock valves.

Also if you are going oversized, unless you replace the valve seats which becomes expensive, you can only really go +1mm on exhaust, and about +.5mm on the intake which requires machining of the valve since they only come in +1mm.

[jracer]

would non inconel ex. valves work ??
WOW the MSM prices are really good ! to bad i dont have a account

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by jracer would non inconel ex. valves work ?? WOW the MSM prices are really good ! to bad i dont have a account

With the heat our engine experience, I would not recommend non-Inconel exhaust valves.

As phate alluded to, he and I (and possibly others) have a suspicion that the OE exhaust valves are Inconel, hence the price. He has some of my original bent exhaust valves that he is going to have tested.


Tapadatass

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by phate Are you talking about boost pressure or exhaust pressure above? I could see it at high rpm, but have we seen power loss because of this? Lots of q's, lol. What do you mean by "don't hold a candle"?

Either actually but the exhaust valves are less affected by manifold pressure because they are smaller and have less surface area for the exhaust pressure to act against.

Take it this way, say the intake valve has 1sq" of surface area on the back side, if your seat pressure is 30psi and you run 35psi of boost, that valve would never close.

I believe the oem exhaust valve is stainless and the intake valve is coated steel, I dont know of any car in our cars price range that has inconel exhaust valves.

[jracer]

Originally Posted by silvapain With the heat our engine experience, I would not recommend non-Inconel exhaust valves. As phate alluded to, he and I (and possibly others) have a suspicion that the OE exhaust valves are Inconel, hence the price. He has some of my original bent exhaust valves that he is going to have tested. Tapadatass

i also sent phate some bent valves.. lol

[phate]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Either actually but the exhaust valves are less affected by manifold pressure because they are smaller and have less surface area for the exhaust pressure to act against. Take it this way, say the intake valve has 1sq" of surface area on the back side, if your seat pressure is 30psi and you run 35psi of boost, that valve would never close. I believe the oem exhaust valve is stainless and the intake valve is coated steel, I dont know of any car in our cars price range that has inconel exhaust valves.

There will be pressure on both sides of the valve, though, so I don't know if it's that straight forward. I'm not saying I don't think it will not occur, because it can.

The top of the stem and tip are magnetic, while the valve head and lower part of the stem are non magnetic. And, for being smaller, they're really heavy. I talked to a lab a while back about testing them, but it kinda went to the wayside since I got the other 6. I'll pick that back up. It would be worth knowing, just in case mazda did something else spectacular.

I also talked to Mazda Motorsports about the exhaust valve material and they said they can't even find out what it is. Proprietary information that doesn't leave Mazda HQ, lol.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by phate There will be pressure on both sides of the valve, though, so I don't know if it's that straight forward. I'm not saying I don't think it will not occur, because it can. The top of the stem and tip are magnetic, while the valve head and lower part of the stem are non magnetic. And, for being smaller, they're really heavy. I talked to a lab a while back about testing them, but it kinda went to the wayside since I got the other 6. I'll pick that back up. It would be worth knowing, just in case mazda did something else spectacular. I also talked to Mazda Motorsports about the exhaust valve material and they said they can't even find out what it is. Proprietary information that doesn't leave Mazda HQ, lol.

Two piece valves are pretty common for oems, its cheaper. The tips of the stems are generally always a different material because that is a major wear point. Get them tested though I am curious as well. $5 says the exhaust is low grade ss and steel and the intake is coated steel.

[bcmurphy87]

I have a spare head I wa looking to just get port to the max and call it a day. I'm not sure if I want to mess with the valves and such. I just lack knowledge of all this.