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 Old 06-22-2014, 01:58 PM   #1
 
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Default So, Cobb Tuning in Plano Texas built my engine 2 years ago...

(Edit: 3.5 years ago...) I took my MS6 to Cobb Tuning in Plano. They found metal in my oil and recommended an engine rebuild. Which I got. And, as you see in my specs in my signature, I got some pretty good numbers out of it, at least for the time. Though I know those numbers are meager compared to what lots of people these days get...

Anyway, within a couple of months, it started running really, really crappy. I live in Houston and so it is a 4.5 hour drive or so to Cobb Tuning. I made the educated guess that it was the injector seals. It was about the time that Silverdemon/CPE released their seals, and there was lots of reports of people with big turbos having problems with stock seals. So, I figured I would get a set and see if that solved the poor running problem.

What I found was worse than I thought, one of the crows feet that holds the injector in place had fallen off! I sent Cobb an email. One of their people tried to blame it on the fact that I had stiff motor mounts which cause vibration and so it vibrated off. That is, of course, retarded because stiff motor mounts make the engine vibrate *less* by transferring engine vibration to the car. So, that was a pretty retarded excuse.

But, whatever... As far as I knew, it wasn't a big crisis, I put on the new seals and was back in business. Car seemed to run well again after the seals job, so, I was satisfied that the problem was solved.

A few months later, I noticed I was having real bad oil leak problems. I sent Cobb an email about it. They said they would have a look at it when I bring it in. I said that I was thinking of doing some more upgrades, such as a better FMIC, better turbo, etc. So, I sent them an email saying that I would bring it by when I was ready to do that and would just keep oil in it in the mean time. I also haven't really driven the car all that much since the work was done as my job has had me out of town more than 50% of the time.

So, I didn't drive it very much. But, it was a number of months after I first reported the problem before I got it over to Cobb. I got the JMF manifold, and a few other things that I thought I would have done to upgrade my car a bit more. I thought I was ready for what would hopefully be the last significant upgrade to the car and got it to Cobb. (This part of the story was over a year ago now...)

They checked it out. They decided to do some diagnostics, and found one of my cylinders had low compression! They didn't seem too anxious to cover it under warranty. Maybe I drove it with low oil given the oil leak and maybe that is what the problem was. Or, maybe the problem with cylinder had something to do with the injector that the crow's foot fell off. I have no idea.

The guy that built my engine, used to also own a Speed 3 and he built himself an engine. But he wound up getting rid of his 3 and so they offered to sell me his engine for about 7k. But, the manager said that honestly, if he was me he would just get a BMW and give up on the MS6.

And, I said that I was actually thinking of getting an M3. This was over a year ago now. I told him that I had a project that was going to keep me in the Netherlands for about 6 months. That project fell through and instead I was in Philadelphia for most of the last year. (Bit letdown on Netherlands vs Philly...)

So, now the project in Philly is mostly over. I'll probably make a few small trips back there, but, I think I will be mainly at home in Houston now for the foreseeable future. So, now, what to do about the car situation.

Well, me and the wife just bought an SUV for our family vehicle. We don't actually have kids, but, we like having 3 cars, one big one for trips or whatever and our old minivan died. We got a Ford Edge, and it is really nice and comfortable and very cool electronics and shit. And I mainly drive it these days and the 6 is mainly in the garage.

But, given that we've just got a new Edge, I don't think I can swing also buying an M3.

I don't particularly notice the MS6 running poorly. Though, given that my turbo and FMIC are oil soaked, when I do drive it, I just drive it like an economy car. But, just driving it like an economy car, I don't notice it running poor. It does vibrate all to fuck, but, always has with the hard mounts I have. So, if it was running rougher with the weak cylinder, I might not even be able to tell. LOL.

So I've got this MS6 that I've poured foolish amounts of money in, I would do things much different if I had to do it again. But, of course, I just have to deal with the situation as it is...

If I did trade it in, what would I get for it? A car that is modded to all fuck that leaks oil and turbo and FMIC oil soaked? Who would want that? What would I get for it? Not much.

As it so happens, I had the MS6 at a local shop for something minor. When I picked the car up at the shop, he said he decided to have a look under the hood to see what I had. He said that he could tell I spent a lot of money on the car. But whoever did the work sure did a shitty job. He of course mentioned I had bad oil problems, which he said was because it wasn't done right. But, he claimed the wiring and hose work look shitty. Now, I know he's just trying to sell his services. And maybe doesn't know what he's talking about.

But, the bottom line is, I spent a lot of fucking money on this car. Foolish I'm sure. But, it is what it is. And while I don't know how much of my problems were Cobb's fault and what weren't. I do know that crow's foot coming off the injector was their fault, whether it resulted in any other problems or not. And the idiot excuse of it being because of my motor mounts sure didn't impress me.

So, at this point, it has been something like 3.5 years since the engine was built. I did tell them of the troubles when I first had them, but, didn't take it to them simply because it isn't convenient and I didn't realize the problem was as serious as it is.

So, what has me motivated to post this here now was the fact that I'm going to be home a lot more for the foreseeable future. And the comment by the other shop, that may or may not be accurate, but saying that the work was done poorly to begin with.

As I said, I haven't even driven the car much over the past three years. I have less than 60k miles total. I'm not sure how many since it was built, but, I think make 10 or 15k? Something like that.

So, the reason I am posting here is, to at the very least is to voice my dissatisfaction with the whole situation, but I don't know what to do. Did Cobb do a shitty job to begin with, like that shop I took it to said? At the very least the crows foot and oil issues seem so. But, is there anything I can reasonably expect Cobb to do about it now? (Probably not, since it is so long ago now...)

And what are my other options? Have someone else rebuild the motor again? Just have someone fix the obvious problems and just make do with the weak cylinder. Push it off a fucking cliff and watch it burn? Trade it in for $50 or something?
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Last edited by Speedie6; 06-23-2014 at 05:45 AM. Reason: Corrected times of issues.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 02:35 PM   #2
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Oh man I thought you fixed all this a while back.

Cobb isn't gonna do anything at this point, their parts are usually good but their engine builds tend to be terrible. If they had to warranty their work they wouldn't be working.

The rods and pistons are almost certainly good as are probably the block and head. Have a good mechanic scope the cylinder to see if it's scored or damaged. If it isn't then it was probably a poor build, cracked ring (poor build), hg seal (poor build), or something random like valve seats (probably poor build). It may be fairly cheap to rebuild it since most of the major hard parts should be reusable.

There is a engine shop in college station that I use for everything now, they aren't fast but their work is five star.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 02:54 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
Oh man I thought you fixed all this a while back.
No. As I said, I haven't been driving it since I've been out of town.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
There is a engine shop in college station that I use for everything now, they aren't fast but their work is five star.
Send me a PM. I'll maybe have them check it out. I can probably drive it to college station. Not too far and just check the oil as I go...
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 Old 06-22-2014, 03:01 PM   #4
 
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Shitty situation is shitty, Sorry to hear about your situation.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 03:04 PM   #5
 
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Damn, that's really shitty man. I remember reading some of your posts a while back and I had assumed you'd fixed all of this a long time ago too. Cobb SHOULD take care of it, but getting them to do so is going to be difficult. It may even require a lawsuit, which is going to take a lot more time, effort, and cash. Unfortunately, it's hard to get companies to back their work when it comes to modified engines. On one hand, they have no idea what was done to the engine after the car was returned to the owner, so I can see their side of it. I see this stuff all the time working as a service advisor. Any future issue with a car is automatically our fault in the customer's mind, because we worked on it last, regardless of if it's actually related or not.

On the other hand, they built the engine and they should stand behind their work and make it right. A freshly rebuilt engine should not have low compression, oil leaks/consumption, or loose injector crows feet, it's as simple as that. Especially with less than 10K miles since it was rebuilt. Cobb is a pretty large($$) company at this point, and they would/should have no problem paying for a new engine rebuild, or at least giving you a large discount on the work. Looking at it from a dealership point of view, if we put a new engine in a car and it came back with an oil leak soon after, we would use parts warranty or get stuck covering the cost of replacing it. However, when you bring modifications into the mix, that changes everything.

Did they also tune the car and install any/all modifications that were done? If they didn't tune it, they will try to blame that. If any parts were added by yourself or a third party after the build, that's what they'll point to.

On another note, I recently looked up the trade-in value/private party value of my MS6 after 1.5 years and 10k miles of ownership and I was surprised at how much the price has tanked.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 03:07 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Speedie6 View Post
No. As I said, I haven't been driving it since I've been out of town.



Send me a PM. I'll maybe have them check it out. I can probably drive it to college station. Not too far and just check the oil as I go...
They only do engine rebuilds, they don't remove them etc. The shop is called Villas Motor Works, 979-775-1633, talk to Mark. If you can get them the longblock they can rebuild it right.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 03:19 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by 06Speed6 View Post
There is a engine shop in college station that I use for everything now, they aren't fast but their work is five star.
Is this the Vilas Motor Works place? Edit: I see it is.

@Speedie6; let me know if I can help in any way.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 06:22 PM   #8
 
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Thanks for the suggestions. Someone else suggested someone in Houston. I will look into both. And, see what, if Cobb, might say in response to this thread.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 06:26 PM   #9
 
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Is your MS6 red and when you start it, the dash says "Red Puss"?
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 Old 06-22-2014, 07:16 PM   #10
 
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This kind of shit is the reason I do things myself. If you don't want to fix it, someone on MSF might pick it up as a project car.

If you want to keep it, I would bite the bullet and order a built motor from speedperformance. OR if money is a huge factor right now, strip it of all the BT parts, sell them for cash, buy compete motor from edge autosports and install.

As for pricing on MS6's they have tanked. But I've noticed whilelooking at used cars, kbb says it's worth "X" but everything is selling for a lot more. It makes buying a new car not such a price jump.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 07:29 PM   #11
 
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Since your in Houston, you could hit up Kozmic. They are also familiar with the platform and offer some nice things for it.

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 Old 06-22-2014, 08:01 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by senor blanco ms3 View Post
Is your MS6 red and when you start it, the dash says "Red Puss"?
Yeah, that's me.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 08:10 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by cshunter View Post
Since your in Houston, you could hit up Kozmic.
Someone else recommended them too. I will check them out.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 08:26 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by Speedie6 View Post
Yeah, that's me.
ah, ok. i watched your motor go in and saw most of the tuning process.



shit, that was 4 years ago.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 08:36 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by senor blanco ms3 View Post
shit, that was 4 years ago.
Really, that long ago? Well, I didn't realize! But, it is still true that I haven't put much miles on it. I only have about 55k on it now, and it was like 40k when I first brought it in to Cobb.

But, if it is that long, then well, no way they will do anything about it now.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 08:42 PM   #16
 
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Man you should take care of that when it was the time 2 years ago(even if that mean paying somebody to drop off the cat to COBB at that time)once you let time passed by you were playing their ball game and they could find a book of excuses to no warranty your car. Sorry to said but you asked to be fucked.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 08:49 PM   #17
 
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Yeah, I did fuck up. Th first time I brought it back to them was over a year ago. I'm only just now bringing it up now again due to now having more need to decide what to do. That, and the shop I recently took the car to telling me that it looked like shitty work, though he could be just trying to sell me his services.

I looked up when it was done, and of 2010, so, it was about 3.5 years. Time flies when you're having fun I guess.

But, yeah, this is mostly my fault.

I will probably just go with one of the local shops people have mentioned. Thanks.
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 Old 06-22-2014, 09:00 PM   #18
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This is why you need to do your own work... Nator, it works...
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 Old 06-23-2014, 04:36 AM   #19
 
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@KotzurRacing;
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 Old 06-23-2014, 05:37 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by Haltech View Post
This is why you need to do your own work... Nator, it works...
^This. When Sam's turbo went Marlboro on me, I had 3 guys here helping me tear it apart. All I paid out for their time was to buy them dinner. And I have returned the favor lending a hand a few times now.
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 Old 06-23-2014, 09:04 PM   #21
 
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Good luck with the rebuild. It's pretty heart warming watch people who have owned a car since the beginning choose to stick with it.
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Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 View Post
Good luck with the rebuild. It's pretty heart warming watch people who have owned a car since the beginning choose to stick with it.
Its kind of a damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I junk it, I'll be out fantastic amounts of money. I had a look at the new 6's. They do look damn nice. There are some rumors of a Speed version coming, but, hard to say. If there was a confirmed release of a new MS6, I might wait for it and see what parts I could transfer. And maybe the Mazda dealer might give me a better trade in given that I bought two previous Mazda's there. But, since there is no Speed version confirmed, I guess I have to stick with it.
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 Old 06-24-2014, 08:22 AM   #23
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Fix your 6. The problems you have aren't the end of the world. I've had more failures on this platform than most and probably more than 10 times what you will ever have and I still keep at it. You learn something everytime you break and fix something. If you always keep having other people work on your shit you'll never learn anything. You can build 2 engines yourself and have one as a spare to sacrifice virgins on and will still be cheaper than having any shop build you one engine.

The only thing you can't change out while the engine is in the car are main bearings and/or crank. Everything else you can fix without removing the engine.

Persevere and take some risks Motherfucker.

Oh and fuck BMW.
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 Old 06-24-2014, 12:03 PM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
Fix your 6. The problems you have aren't the end of the world. I've had more failures on this platform than most and probably more than 10 times what you will ever have and I still keep at it. You learn something everytime you break and fix something. If you always keep having other people work on your shit you'll never learn anything. You can build 2 engines yourself and have one as a spare to sacrifice virgins on and will still be cheaper than having any shop build you one engine.

The only thing you can't change out while the engine is in the car are main bearings and/or crank. Everything else you can fix without removing the engine.
Well, I've been told that you actually can't do the rods without pulling the engine, given the way the crank strap is mounted, it can't be removed without detaching the trans. Of course I don't need to change the rods. So, that's not an issue. I'm just saying that what you say doesn't jive with my understanding.

Now, I would think you could do a ring job without pulling the engine. Just pull the head. Cobb said that if they were to do it, they'd pull the motor anyway as they said it could wind up being that more work was needed and so it would be just easier to pull the whole motor.

But, the basic upshot is, you are probably right that for what I need, I probably don't need to pull the motor.

But, call me a pussy if you will, but, I still think that is beyond my skill set. I've done more on this MS6 than I've ever done before. I installed the DP (the first one for the stock K04). I've pulled the intake manifold. I even for a short time marketed a turbo inlet pipe. This was back before Cobb and CPE and Corksport made TIPs. I didn't do the welding. But I did mock-ups with pieces of aluminum tube and then had someone make it. You might even still see somebody with a "Speedie6 TIP" in their aftermarket parts signature. So for me, that's pretty impressive, even if it seems rather meager to you.

But, now that I realize that the problems probably do not require pulling the engine, that makes me feel better anyway.

And, if Mazda still actually made zoom-zoom cars, I'd say "fuck BMW" too. To me, the new 6's look a lot better aesthetically than Beemers. If I had to buy new, and if I had the option of a 2015 Mazdaspeed 6, I'd probably be all over that. But you go to Mazda-USA's site, and click on the Mazdaspeed tab, and what do you get? You get history. There isn't a Mazdaspeed anything to buy.
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 Old 06-24-2014, 03:01 PM   #25
 
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Engine would probably come out for rings as the rods have to come out if you do rings. Pistons can only come up which means you need to pull off the oil pan to get the rod caps off. It is possible to do all of it with the engine in the car but that's a huge pain, besides I bet TX Nator could help pull it.

Now as for oil leaks, the where is important. I bet at least one spot is the rear main seal I've noticed it's definitely the most finicky seal to get right without leaking. Oil leaks are the least of your worries though as most seals are fairly cheap. The low compression is what you should be worried about. If I were you I would get a leak down test done and see what the cause is. For all you know it may just be a bad valve seal and you could just slap a new seal in and be good to go once the leaks are fixed. Or it could be a ring which could mean anything from needing a new piston to needing a new ring and having to hone the cylinder wall. What I'm trying to say is find out what the problem is and then go from there.
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 Old 06-24-2014, 03:23 PM   #26
 
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Another Cobb 6 lmao.
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 Old 06-24-2014, 04:06 PM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 View Post
Engine would probably come out for rings as the rods have to come out if you do rings.
Spoilsport! Okay, fair enough.

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 View Post
Now as for oil leaks, the where is important. I bet at least one spot is the rear main seal I've noticed it's definitely the most finicky seal to get right without leaking.
I talked with someone else with a Cobb built motor. They said that Cobb did a rigged job on the turbo oil line and that's where his leaked. But, true, it could be anything.

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 View Post
The low compression is what you should be worried about. If I were you I would get a leak down test done and see what the cause is. For all you know it may just be a bad valve seal and you could just slap a new seal in and be good to go once the leaks are fixed. Or it could be a ring which could mean anything from needing a new piston to needing a new ring and having to hone the cylinder wall. What I'm trying to say is find out what the problem is and then go from there.
Fair enough again.
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 Old 06-24-2014, 04:50 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Speedie6 View Post
Well, I've been told that you actually can't do the rods without pulling the engine, given the way the crank strap is mounted, it can't be removed without detaching the trans. .
Whoever told you that does not know what the fuck he is talking about.
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 Old 06-24-2014, 05:01 PM   #29
 
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Here's one of what he's talking about OP:

The FAIL formerly known as "Dano's Drop-in Build"
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 Old 06-24-2014, 05:52 PM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by Tomas View Post
Whoever told you that does not know what the fuck he is talking about.
Originally Posted by pzr2874 View Post
Here's one of what he's talking about OP:

The FAIL formerly known as "Dano's Drop-in Build"
Okay, well, I assume you guys know better. It still seems that whether it can or can't be done in place, most shops pull the motor to do that kind of work. And its really not in the cards for me to do it.
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 Old 06-25-2014, 09:51 AM   #31
 
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Originally Posted by Haltech View Post
This is why you need to do your own work... Nator, it works...
That's great if there is a NATOR chapter near you. Here in NOLA there is SHIT!
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 Old 06-25-2014, 11:38 PM   #32
 
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Damond Motorsports = PS Cooler - RMM - PMM - OCC
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Technafit = SS Brake Lines - SS Clutch Line
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