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-   -   2008 CX-7 Timing chain repair gone wrong (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f518/2008-cx-7-timing-chain-repair-gone-184862/)

jtb2798 02-25-2015 08:42 PM

2008 CX-7 Timing chain repair gone wrong
 
This repair was in the interest of preventative maintenance and the car was running just fine with the exception a noisy timing chain. We have replaced the timing chain, tensioner, VVT actuator, cam position sensor, crank position sensor, plus the bolts and washers (all OEM parts). The chain is in time, we're getting oil pressure, the starter is turning, but the car will not crank. We've checked the grounds and every stupid thing we could think of. We took off bad parts and replaced them with good parts. The chain is in time using the timing tool kit that came with the VVT and there is no adverse sound that you would expect if the chain were not in time and the valves were being destroyed. Does anyone have any other ideas as to why the car will not start? Computer related? Safe mode? I'm open to any suggestions that will prevent me from towing this to the dealer and bending over.

xNonAmEx 02-26-2015 05:10 AM

Did you check the spark while cranking?

RalliartRsX 02-26-2015 06:27 AM

I second sounds like a spark issue

HawkeyeGeoff 02-26-2015 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtb2798 (Post 2821415)
This repair was in the interest of preventative maintenance and the car was running just fine with the exception a noisy timing chain. We have replaced the timing chain, tensioner, VVT actuator, cam position sensor, crank position sensor, plus the bolts and washers (all OEM parts). The chain is in time, we're getting oil pressure, the starter is turning, but the car will not crank. We've checked the grounds and every stupid thing we could think of. We took off bad parts and replaced them with good parts. The chain is in time using the timing tool kit that came with the VVT and there is no adverse sound that you would expect if the chain were not in time and the valves were being destroyed. Does anyone have any other ideas as to why the car will not start? Computer related? Safe mode? I'm open to any suggestions that will prevent me from towing this to the dealer and bending over.

Any codes being thrown?

I'd third some kind of spark issue.

If you have some kind of torque application you can check the fuel pressure as well.

xfeejayx 02-26-2015 07:33 AM

Check the motor mount ground, and the ground by the fuel pump. That ground by the HPFP has thwarted many people.

Is the motor turning "as it should?" Meaning, does it sound like it has compression, and isn't just free wheeling? It'll turn super fast if it's free wheeling.

Raider 02-26-2015 07:41 AM

If the starter is turning, the motor should be cranking. If it is turning over and not firing.

Check grounds as @xfeejayx; said. I think it is on the passenger mount on CX-7. Then that tiny little wire on the hpfp.

Then pull plugs out and connect to coils, crank it over and check for sparky.

xfeejayx 02-26-2015 08:35 AM

If you have the means, do a compression check. We've recently learned that the plastic timing tool leaves something to be desired, and your timing can actually be off if you didn't pay attention.

Tokay444 02-26-2015 08:59 AM

How are you getting oil pressure if the car is not cranking?

How is the starter turning without the engine cranking?

jtb2798 02-26-2015 03:39 PM

I am getting spark when attempting to crank and the grounds are connected properly. If the chain was out of time and anything in the engine was being damaged would it not be audible when I attempt to crank it?

SpencerC 02-26-2015 03:44 PM

My guess is this guy:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G...0/IMG_2841.jpg

Unless I am misunderstanding and the engine is literally not turning due to something blocking it.... Maybe you forgot to remove the TDC pin in the back of the engine?

Yatta 02-26-2015 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spencer@CorkSport (Post 2821960)
My guess is this guy:

Unless I am misunderstanding and the engine is literally not turning due to something blocking it.... Maybe you forgot to remove the TDC pin in the back of the engine?

Has someone else done this? wondering what would go first or what it would sound like :)

SpencerC 02-26-2015 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yatta (Post 2821965)
Has someone else done this? wondering what would go first or what it would sound like :)

I've never heard of it. But what he wrote doesn't make that much sense either... starter cranking, getting spark, engine isn't cranking... we don't know if he can turn it by hand that I can see, but supposedly all ground and spark is good... so either it is physically blocked right.... or it isn't getting fuel.

Tokay444 02-26-2015 05:09 PM

So is it cranking or not?

Spec 02-26-2015 05:11 PM

Is it even possible to fuck up and have a cam turned 180* on an mzr?

jtb2798 02-26-2015 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokay444 (Post 2822052)
So is it cranking or not?

Sorry let me clarify, the engine is turning, there is spark, there is fuel pressure (at least I think so since the fuel pump spurts gas everywhere when I remove it), but its as if the fuel is not getting to the spark plugs for the engine to fire. Everything was functioning prior to this repair and all that was replaced was the timing chain and related components. Is it possible that the chain could still not be in time even though it is top dead center? When attempting to start the engine the engine seems to be turning at normal speed, there is no metal on metal clashing that I would expect to hear if the valves are being destroyed, and there is no gas smell in the spark plug wells after attempting to crank. This leads me to believe that something, be it a sensor, the computer, all 4 fuel injectors failing at the same time, or simply the chain is somehow not in time and not allowing the car to start. Am I under the wrong impression that the cam shaft can only be in two different positions, either the right way or 180 degrees the wrong way?

xNonAmEx 02-26-2015 11:40 PM

Technically when using the timing plate you can put cams in 4 different positions: lobes facing each other, pointing in the opposite directions and a combination of those. I would check the compression just to be sure. Regarding fuel, did you check the relays and fuses? Also the ground on the hpfp that Spencer posted.

xfeejayx 02-27-2015 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtb2798 (Post 2822080)
Sorry let me clarify, the engine is turning, there is spark, there is fuel pressure (at least I think so since the fuel pump spurts gas everywhere when I remove it), but its as if the fuel is not getting to the spark plugs for the engine to fire. Everything was functioning prior to this repair and all that was replaced was the timing chain and related components. Is it possible that the chain could still not be in time even though it is top dead center? When attempting to start the engine the engine seems to be turning at normal speed, there is no metal on metal clashing that I would expect to hear if the valves are being destroyed, and there is no gas smell in the spark plug wells after attempting to crank. This leads me to believe that something, be it a sensor, the computer, all 4 fuel injectors failing at the same time, or simply the chain is somehow not in time and not allowing the car to start. Am I under the wrong impression that the cam shaft can only be in two different positions, either the right way or 180 degrees the wrong way?

Please Read. Every. Post. After reading, go through what you have and haven't done, and answer accordingly. Your car will run faster if you do this.

3 people have now told you to check your grounds, especially at the HPFP. Please start there if you haven't already.

Using the plastic timing tool you probably got with that kit, yes, you can accidentally install either cam 180*. If one cam is 180*, the engine will crank faster than normal because you don't have compression. This will not destroy your valves. You will hear nothing except a fast crank.
I don't know how good your ear is at hearing a fast crank, but to make sure this is right, put everything back to 0* and make sure the cam lobes at cylinder one are facing up and towards the center of the engine.

It's not your injectors. All 4 don't go at once.

jtb2798 03-04-2015 12:17 PM

Wound up just taking the car to Mazda. Mazda saying that the car was put back together out of time and attempted to start and needs a new head. Is this even possible if the car never cranked?

Raider 03-04-2015 12:28 PM

It did crank if the engine turned over. You said starter moved, so engine moved, and engine is now busted.

The timing tools were not used properly or failed, and it came out of time. TDC was not verified after assembly, prior to starting, is my guess, as a way to check. Would have to know where cams are for TDC, as well as crank.

Most likely a valve got bent and caused damage. Its super-common for the non-dealer mechanic to do this. Like VERY common. Extremely common when it is a shade-tree mechanic in their garage who has not done this before.

Note that you can get an entire motor rebuilt longblock from @EdgeAutosport.com; probably cheaper than a Mazda dealer head. Of course, I would recommend getting the dealer to install it.

shamie 03-04-2015 12:48 PM

I would be suspect of needing a new head. Sounds like the dealer knows he's going to be in this almost as much labor to swap a head, so why not charge you for one while he's in there.

CX-7Pilot 10-14-2015 05:50 PM

So what's the word? Did the dealer end up replacing the head? What did that set you back? I might be in the same boat, but hopefully I'm getting mine in before permanent damage is done.

Raider 10-14-2015 06:11 PM

The guy has not logged in for 7 months.

ace woodford 02-18-2016 02:55 PM

VERY similar problem with mine..can anyone help me?
 
Hello, I'm in desperate need of some mechanical advice for my 2007 CX-7 Grand Touring. Here's the story, I was driving my son home to his mother's last month in sub-zero temps and I blew a coolant hose...in the middle of nowhere...I foolishly made the decision to limp it to the next small town 4 miles away(it was -4deg and I was more afraid of being stuck with my 10yr old in the deathly cold than I was about the effects on my engine), We made it to safety but the car overheated and blew a headgasket as well as melted the coil boots on #'s 3 and 4. I got the car towed home and had my mechanic replaced the head gasket as well as machine the head, replace timing chain/vet etc.. He finally got everything together yesterday but now we can't get it to start. The timing was done right(all coil packs are sparking) but it still won't fire up.

Can anyone PLEASE give me some advice on where to begin? My wife's advice is to crush the car, but I've done soooo much work on this vehicle over the 175k miles I've owned it that it's become a war of attrition between the CX-7 and myself...and I'm not giving up... PLEASE HELP


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