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 Old 11-05-2018, 11:21 AM   #1
 
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Default PCV Questions

Alright, Iíve been having some problems with my PCV system. Itís completely OEM and with 25 PSI on a CS turbo itís forcing oil through my valve cover breather and through all my charge pipes. Iíve lost about half a quart of oil in 500 miles, need to fix it ASAP.

Only thing is Iím not really sure what to put in there. I am going to buy a Kozmic vented catch can kit but Iím not sure if I need a new PCV plate as well or a breather cap, etc. I have a new PCV valve ready to go in as Iím sure itís either clogged or broken, but Iím not sure if that will fix the crankcase pressure.

I donít really understand how all the plumbing works and if I even need a PCV valve after the catch can install, or if the catch can replaces the PCV valve entirely.

Any help, need some guidance.
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 Old 11-05-2018, 11:28 AM   #2
 
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Yes, you need a PCV valve, even after a catch can install. You dont need a vented catch can either.

Sealed catch can with a check valve between Intake manifold and catch can is a good place to start.
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 Old 11-05-2018, 11:36 AM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by JSmith View Post
Yes, you need a PCV valve, even after a catch can install. You dont need a vented catch can either.

Sealed catch can with a check valve between Intake manifold and catch can is a good place to start.
Can I still use the stock oil separator plate?
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 Old 11-05-2018, 11:38 AM   #4
 
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Yes. You just interrupt the hose exiting the PCV valve and route it to the CC, the CV, then back to the IM like normal.
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 Old 11-06-2018, 09:32 AM   #5
 
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A sealed can between the PCV plate and intake manifold does NOTHING to vent crankcase pressure in when in boost unless it's connected to the turbo inlet pipe.
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 Old 11-06-2018, 10:16 AM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
A sealed can between the PCV plate and intake manifold does NOTHING to vent crankcase pressure in when in boost unless it's connected to the turbo inlet pipe.
So how would I route a vented catch can? From the PCV to the can then to the intake? Or back into the manifold?
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 Old 11-06-2018, 10:19 AM   #7
 
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Go with a Damond Motorsports dual catch can setup with a stock PCV (new) and you'll be golden.
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 Old 11-06-2018, 04:25 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
It’s completely OEM and with 25 PSI on a CS turbo it’s forcing oil through my valve cover breather and through all my charge pipes. I’ve lost about half a quart of oil in 500 miles, need to fix it ASAP.
Are u getting any oil past the turbo seal burning up in the exhaust? Without good crankcase pressure relief mods my BNR S4 would burn oil like crazy, and shoot plumes of smoke out the tailpipe at WOT, although I wasn't getting oil out the valve cover breather which makes me think the S4 might be more suseptible to smoking than the CS turbo without good crankcase pressure relief.

Running an oil restrictor bolt as a first resort may have starved my S4 of oil causing slight damage, because even to this day with a dual vented catch can setup, and sp63 oil breather cap, my S4 still smokes, but not nearly as bad as when I had no crankcase pressure relief.

Many have mentioned that running an oil restrictor bolt on journal bearing turbos is not a good idea. Start with CC pressure relief first.

The simplest setup would be to try a Gen 2 VC with SP63 oil breather cap
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 Old 11-06-2018, 04:50 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 View Post
Are u getting any oil past the turbo seal burning up in the exhaust? Without good crankcase pressure relief mods my BNR S4 would burn oil like crazy, and shoot plumes of smoke out the tailpipe at WOT, although I wasn't getting oil out the valve cover breather which makes me think the S4 might be more suseptible to smoking than the CS turbo without good crankcase pressure relief.

Running an oil restrictor bolt as a first resort may have starved my S4 of oil causing slight damage, because even to this day with a dual vented catch can setup, and sp63 oil breather cap, my S4 still smokes, but not nearly as bad as when I had no crankcase pressure relief.

Many have mentioned that running an oil restrictor bolt on journal bearing turbos is not a good idea. Start with CC pressure relief first.

The simplest setup would be to try a Gen 2 VC with SP63 oil breather cap
Corksport includes their own oil feed bolt when you buy their turbo. Thatís what Iíve been using, not a single hint of smoke even with all the crankcase pressure. Just the classic black smoke outs cars make when you put your foot down.

I have a Gen 2 lol, what Iím going to do is have a single vented catch can with two ports, one for the valve cover breather and one for the PCV. Then plug off the intake manifold port and the inlet pipe port. That should bring my crank case pressure way down and completely eliminate the possibility of oil getting into my intake.

What I think is happening is because Iím running so much boost it shuts the PCV valve closed and builds crank case pressure, forcing oil out through the valve cover breather and into my intake.
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 Old 11-06-2018, 06:11 PM   #10
 
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Your going to put a can between your valve cover and PCV valve?
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 Old 11-06-2018, 07:13 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by shamie View Post
Your going to put a can between your valve cover and PCV valve?
A vented can yes. They both emit crankcase pressure so leading them to a vent to atmosphere can seems like a wise idea. I know a sealed can pulls pressure from vacuum but my priority is to rid the oil and vapors from my intake. I guarantee it will still have lower crankcase pressures than the stock PCV system. I donít even have a vented oil cap.
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 Old 11-06-2018, 08:44 PM   #12
 
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I think your going to create more problems with that setup.
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 Old 11-06-2018, 11:56 PM   #13
 
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Sealing the manifold port & TIP port and plumbing the VC & PCV plate to a single VTA OCC won't be a problem. Bonus, you won't need any restrictive check valves.
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 Old 11-07-2018, 05:48 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by achulz View Post
Corksport includes their own oil feed bolt when you buy their turbo. That’s what I’ve been using, not a single hint of smoke even with all the crankcase pressure. Just the classic black smoke outs cars make when you put your foot down.

I have a Gen 2 lol, what I’m going to do is have a single vented catch can with two ports, one for the valve cover breather and one for the PCV. Then plug off the intake manifold port and the inlet pipe port. That should bring my crank case pressure way down and completely eliminate the possibility of oil getting into my intake.

What I think is happening is because I’m running so much boost it shuts the PCV valve closed and builds crank case pressure, forcing oil out through the valve cover breather and into my intake.
Oh I didn't realize the CS turbo came with it's own oil feed bolt. Good to hear it's holding up at 25 psi with the stock PCV configuration without smoking.

In regards to your PCV considerations, I think keeping both the valve cover and intake manifold vacuum sources in place will benefit much more at both part throttle and wide open throttle.

If you remove the oil cap with the engine idling, you can feel quite a bit of pressure (although this may all be in my head as I haven't actually measured CC pressure). Now imagine removing all the vacuum sources :/

This is the setup I run. I've done some editing in paint to show my exact setup. It's quite over kill in most cases, but this was when I was trying everything I could to stop my S4 from smoking, and found that running an oil restrictor bolt may have been the first mistake that prolonged issue.

Custom PCV_route_4_grande.png

The reason why I like this setup is because there are several places for pressure to vent and it retains all OEM style vacuum sources on the crankcase. But the real kicker is that during WOT, the inlet pipe pulls a strong vacuum
the crankcase through the can on the right side.
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 Old 11-07-2018, 08:55 AM   #15
 
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I don't have a catch can between my VC and TIP. I used to and it never had oil in it, so I took it out. Figured if it's not catching anything then all that extra tubing and a baffled catch can is hurting flow.

The other catch can drawn above is how mine is plumbed, except I don't use the PCV valve. I put a cap over the PCV and hooked the OCC hose to the center port. This provides a wide open/unrestricted flow to the VTA catch can, although it still has to flow through another restrictive check valve to vent out.

Gen2 VC would be nice to have in order to use the VTA oil fill cap/breather.
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 Old 11-07-2018, 06:42 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 View Post



The reason why I like this setup is because there are several places for pressure to vent and it retains all OEM style vacuum sources on the crankcase. But the real kicker is that during WOT, the inlet pipe pulls a strong vacuum
the crankcase through the can on the right side.
How are you not getting a massive amount of unmetered air through the intake port?
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 Old 11-07-2018, 07:04 PM   #17
 
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I don't see any leak potential.
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2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 11-07-2018, 07:10 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
The other catch can drawn above is how mine is plumbed, except I don't use the PCV valve. I put a cap over the PCV and hooked the OCC hose to the center port. This provides a wide open/unrestricted flow to the VTA catch can, although it still has to flow through another restrictive check valve to vent out.
I take it you're still using the check valve in between the IM and the PCV plate right?

I'm wondering if using just a check valve without the PCV valve actually pulls more vacuum on the crankcase due to potentially less restriction, and if it might correct my smoking turbo issue.

Sorry to thread jack, but it's PCV related so I'll continue

With my over kill PCV setup posted above, WOT pulls don't look to be smoking nearly as bad as they used to.

I'm not sure if running the restrictor bolt for quite a while caused damage to the turbo or not, but with this over kill PCV setup switching back to the stock oil feed bolt seems to have reduced the smoking.

I've noticed that the smoking issue seems worse during mid to high rpm deceleration, whether I go into boost or not, I will see quite a bit of blueish white smoke out the tailpipe in my rear view.

I can get it to happen easily by slowly bringing the rpm up to about 5k, and then letting off the gas.

As soon as it starts decelerating, about 2 seconds go by, and then smoke starts trailing out behind me for a few seconds before it dissipates.

I will say that although this turbo is a great value and performs well, I have been spending quite a bit of time and money trying to totally stop it from smoking.

I'm almost at the point of accepting the fact that I will just have to carry around a 5 liter jug of Rotella T6 for top up's lol, or send it out to BNR to get rebuilt/inspected and hope it doesn't smoke after that.

My guess as to why this is happening during deceleration is simply because I have a full 3" catless high flow turboback exhaust.

During deceleration the injectors turn off, causing only air to be pumped through the engine.

Without sufficient back pressure from combustion in the downpipe, a potential venturi effect from only air flowing through might be pulling oil past the turbine seal causing it to burn up.

Many other internet sources have suggested valve seals, but I doubt it since the car doesn't have any other smoking issues other than in he circumstances of deceleration and WOT pulls.

I'm thinking that maybe by using just a check valve instead of the PCV valve, a stronger vacuum can be pulled on the turbos oil drain that might over come the strength of that potential venturi effect in the exhaust during deceleration.
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 Old 11-07-2018, 07:16 PM   #19
 
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Yes, still using check valve at the intake manifold...which makes the PCV valve redundant and an unnecessary restriction.
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'06 MS6 GT-162k Miles(Forged@157,116)
Manley Pistons & Rods, King Bearings
Stock Head/Cams, Stock Int/Exh Manifolds
Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Rear Russian Bushings, Poly FSB Bushings Magnaflow CBE, ACT 6-puck/Streetlite
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Other rides:
2002 Tacoma ExtCab 2.4L 5spd 2WD - 355k mile Speed support vehicle.
2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015 and I really need to get rid of it)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 11-07-2018, 07:33 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by SSinstaller View Post
How are you not getting a massive amount of unmetered air through the intake port?
Each vented OCC has a one way check valve on top.

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Yes, still using check valve at the intake manifold...which makes the PCV valve redundant and an unnecessary restriction.
Thanks man I might have to try this out and hope it stops my smoking during deceleration. What did you use to cap off the PCV valve?
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Last edited by BuddySpeed3; 11-07-2018 at 07:33 PM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost
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 Old 11-07-2018, 07:55 PM   #21
 
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Generic nipple cap. It came in an assortment pack from Advance Auto.
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Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Rear Russian Bushings, Poly FSB Bushings Magnaflow CBE, ACT 6-puck/Streetlite
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/OCC/PCV Plate
Other rides:
2002 Tacoma ExtCab 2.4L 5spd 2WD - 355k mile Speed support vehicle.
2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015 and I really need to get rid of it)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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 Old 11-07-2018, 08:01 PM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Generic nipple cap. It came in an assortment pack from Advance Auto.
Ouuu my favorite kind of cap, Thanks man!
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 Old 11-08-2018, 10:28 AM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post

Gen2 VC would be nice to have in order to use the VTA oil fill cap/breather.
https://www.ecwid.com/store/store947...late-p99309430
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 Old 11-09-2018, 10:09 AM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Yes, still using check valve at the intake manifold...which makes the PCV valve redundant and an unnecessary restriction.
Do u notice any negative side effects with this setup?
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 Old 11-09-2018, 01:34 PM   #25
 
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No
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'06 MS6 GT-162k Miles(Forged@157,116)
Manley Pistons & Rods, King Bearings
Stock Head/Cams, Stock Int/Exh Manifolds
Versatuner, 3-bar MAP, ITV22, CP-e TMIC
CS Turbo/DP/RP/HPFP/BPV/R-DiffMount
White Widow F-DiffMount, Whiteline RSB
Rear Russian Bushings, Poly FSB Bushings Magnaflow CBE, ACT 6-puck/Streetlite
JBR Tru-3.5/3-port EBCS/EGR-D
Damond RMM/PMM/OCC/PCV Plate
Other rides:
2002 Tacoma ExtCab 2.4L 5spd 2WD - 355k mile Speed support vehicle.
2004 Olds Alero ECOtec 2.2 - Broken (since Christmas 2015 and I really need to get rid of it)
History:
2008 GSX-R 1000 - Stolen (With several runs past 180, I'd probably be dead by now if it wasn't stolen. So in a way, I'm thankful.)
1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, filter-on-turbo SRI, custom TBE, 20psi boost creep on OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
1985 Camaro - Sold (est. 265bhp 5.7 swap, Edelbrock intake & Hooker headers)
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