2011 faggy blue racecar/dd. 31k km Drop-in build

[breakfasteatre]

After an enjoyable track season last summer, in which i, coughcough, won one of the time attack events overall, I did a compression check, found that cylinder 4 was low, 165 versus 180 and had a 20% leakdown

with 6k kms on the car, i had 180 across the board, so something happened that summer.


After speaking with some of my nators up here in Toronto, namely @Celestspeed3; and @BlueStreak; we are thinking it is a ring gap issue, possibly a cracked ring land.

initial thought was to just re-ring the pistons, at least doubling the oem spec, but what if i pull apart the car, and a ring land is cracked.

so, now, after going through @Dano; 's "drop-in" build thread, I have formulated a somewhat plan of attack.



so far, this is what i have:

spare complete head, including valves, cams: 280 shipped


yeah. thats it. lol


what i have planned

stock bore cp-e stage 2 pistons, K1 rods, new wiseco rings: care of @Tomas; eventually
oversized exhaust valves, and associated valve seat machining
stock intake valves
bronze valve guides, because i was told to, heh
Ported and polished head
ceramic coating on the piston tops (celestspeed3 has had his combustion chamber coated, and i think exhaust ports, havent decided yet)

new oem

crank and cam bolts
diamond grit washers
timing chain
head gasket
head studs (i have been following the head stud thread closely, keep in mind, k04 for the time being, gtx3071 in the distant future. I track the car, and want some sustained reliability, not an all out hp build)

should i replace the vvt actuator after 31k kms?
i dont have a ton of disposable income for my car and dont want to frivolously spend money on shit that is still fine


flexihone care of bluestreak, if needed


track setup for the coming season:

KW v1 coilovers, i ran stock springs in the rear because i left the spring seats on my old speed3. Car rotated really well with them, stock sway bars
Undecided on front pads, but HP+ in the rear, oem rotors
goodridge SS lines


thoughts on the lines, if the clutch line is a part of the brake hydraulic system, would the soft clutch line not be a point for expansion if the Brake lines are ss?

brake ducts, i-moto racing will be making plastic versions of their fog light delete covers.

oil cooler of some sort, no fan, but a thermostat controlled valve

bfgoodrich R1 @ 225/50/16 on FD wheels
i have found 16" is a shitty size for track tires, but at the least, the R1 measures wider than indicated. I think the 225 is equiv to a 245 width. I just hope i dont have to roll the fenders right now

this thread is a little premature but i want to start it so that i dont get too overwhelmed in my head. JAHNO>?

[Tokay444]

Get your new engine under warranty first and build that.

[Dano]

interested to see if your rings butted and my money says they did. mine went south after a hot summer of numerous WOT tuning runs.

Also interested to see how deformed your cylinder walls are and in what cylinders.

did you lose compression on #3 ?

edit: lastely I would get a new rad fan controller if you haven't already. the OEM 217 turn on is way too hot IMO.

[breakfasteatre]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Get your new engine under warranty first and build that.

vincent, @Fobio; mentioned this, how would i even go about doing this? car runs great, i wouldnt have known if it wasnt for the compression test

and @Dano; its cylinder 4, cylinder 3 was fine, had 2-3% leakdown, 180 compression

[Tokay444]

Tell them as part of a routine maintenance check you found out of spec compression. Let them take care if the rest.

[breakfasteatre]

maybe ill talk to tiffany or whoever that service manager was that was at maple mazda

[Celestspeed3]

Originally Posted by Dano edit: lastely I would get a new rad fan controller if you haven't already. the OEM 217 turn on is way too hot IMO.

Do you have any info on this?

[racingrayson]

Originally Posted by breakfasteatre oil cooler of some sort, no fan, but a thermostat controlled valve JAHNO>?

I've been told the thermostat valves are often so restrictive you'll actually end up with increased oil temps. Not saying that's gospel, just something to watch our for.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by breakfasteatre vincent, @Fobio; mentioned this, how would i even go about doing this? car runs great, i wouldnt have known if it wasnt for the compression test and @Dano; its cylinder 4, cylinder 3 was fine, had 2-3% leakdown, 180 compression

interesting...someone said in my thread that since the coolant flows from 1-4 that the further away you get the less cooling there is...maybe it is enough to make a difference exp since #3 cylinder will run hotter than 1-2 for sure due to IM design. #4 may be taking a hit due to #3 transferring alot of heat into the coolant and surrounding area.

just speculation of course.

Originally Posted by Dano edit: lastly I would get a new rad fan controller if you haven't already. the OEM 217 turn on is way too hot IMO.

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 Do you have any info on this?

@superskaterxes; has a new fan controller but I have no direct knowledge of what he is using.

[Celestspeed3]

I was a control circuit build for it. I didn't know if I could tap the fan directly without the ecu throughing some sort of code. I wasn't sure if I should tap the fan control with a diode or just power the fan directly.

[Dano]

iirc the ecu has zero comm w the fan. totally separate control unit which is why cobb hasnt opened up tbls for it.

Ant would know more.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Get your new engine under warranty first and build that.

Would it be possible to do a pop and drop on a new engine easily without having to buy new head studs?

[Dano]

negative. once the OEM bolts are torqued they are done. you can get new OEM bolts though.

see discussion here.

Lets Talk About Head Studs

OEM stuff starts around page 3 IIRC Search for post by me.

[Tokay444]

Phate seems to disagree.
There is no 'R' for replace on the head bolts.
Just a maximum and minimum length. If they fall within those lengths, they are within their service life.
I'm not sure how much new oem's are, but I personally would just get new ones.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Phate seems to disagree. There is no 'R' for replace on the head bolts. Just a maximum and minimum length. If they fall within those lengths, they are within their service life. I'm not sure how much new oem's are, but I personally would just get new ones.

Phate is on the fence..lol...in an early post he said that since they are TTA that Mazda expects them to stretch thus the same clamp force can't be applied with the same procedure a 2nd time. Then after I brought it up the 2nd time he indicated only if it stretched into plastic def was it not usable again. Only way to tell that is to know the measurement before and after and have a way to perform said measurement.

short story buy new bolts

if you are building a motor and can't afford $100-140 for bolts/studs you might want to think again about your build.

[silvapain]

The engine service manual states replacement of the head bolts is only necessary of they have stretched beyond spec (section 01-10B-22 of the GenJuan MS3 manual). Frankly, I'd just treat them as TTY and replace them all without question.

P.S. I also wouldn't order pistons without disassembling the engine and measuring the bore first. Of course, I wouldn't do a drop-in build on these engines in the first place, so take it for what it's worth.

[breakfasteatre]

Originally Posted by silvapain The engine service manual states replacement of the head bolts is only necessary of they have stretched beyond spec (section 01-10B-22 of the GenJuan MS3 manual). Frankly, I'd just treat them as TTY and replace them all without question. P.S. I also wouldn't order pistons without disassembling the engine and measuring the bore first. Of course, I wouldn't do a drop-in build on these engine in the first place, so take it for what it's worth.

duly noted

[superskaterxes]

i have an entire how to thread for it

[Celestspeed3]

This forum search sucks, or I'm the biggest noob looser of them all.

[Dano]

within a forum section~ Advanced search~threads started by user.

Within a thread~ Advanced search~ post by user


Tappin

[breakfasteatre]

realized i posted in the genjuan section, i guess i cant let go of my dead true red beauty

well, picked up the head today, opened box, find sprocket still sitting in box.

must have been dropped, awesome.

[breakfasteatre]

other cam is broken in half as well, jesus christ man

[etonna]

Originally Posted by breakfasteatre maybe ill talk to tiffany or whoever that service manager was that was at maple mazda

I've heard she has helped a few guys out, give it a try! I'll be taking my car there tomorrow for some warranty work as well.

[Tokay444]

Alex why the fuck are you buying engine parts when you're still fully warranted?
Blow that bitch up for fuck sake.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by breakfasteatre other cam is broken in half as well, jesus christ man

holy fuck man! did you get the head from cageyvet?


lol
@Tokay444;

[socks]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Get your new engine under warranty first and build that.

Variance spec is 28psi IIRC, and minimum compression being 128psi.

They would tell him its within spec.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by socks Variance spec is 28psi IIRC, and minimum compression being 128psi. They would tell him its within spec.

True story.

[SpeedRebirth]

Originally Posted by Dano iirc the ecu has zero comm w the fan. totally separate control unit which is why cobb hasnt opened up tbls for it. Ant would know more.

Versatuner has enabled tables for Fan control:
"Fan On Engine Coolant Temperature"
Baro Pressure (PSI)
Fan On ECT (F)

Mine is set to 215,6

Also has a table for voltage "Fan On Voltage Adjustment"

[Dano]

Originally Posted by SpeedRebirth Versatuner has enabled tables for Fan control: "Fan On Engine Coolant Temperature" Baro Pressure (PSI) Fan On ECT (F) Mine is set to 215,6 Also has a table for voltage "Fan On Voltage Adjustment"

no chit? fucking cobb and their ST project...

I guess Ant just bypassed all the ECU control.
@superskaterxes;

thanks for the info.

[Tomas]

Cobb used to have a fan control temp function in ATR sometime ago.
They droped it because it wasn't doing anything.
I suspect it's the same with versatune.

Where the fuck is Lex and how the fuck do you mention someone nowadays.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Phate seems to disagree. There is no 'R' for replace on the head bolts. Just a maximum and minimum length. If they fall within those lengths, they are within their service life. I'm not sure how much new oem's are, but I personally would just get new ones.

Originally Posted by Dano Phate is on the fence..lol...in an early post he said that since they are TTA that Mazda expects them to stretch thus the same clamp force can't be applied with the same procedure a 2nd time. Then after I brought it up the 2nd time he indicated only if it stretched into plastic def was it not usable again. Only way to tell that is to know the measurement before and after and have a way to perform said measurement. short story buy new bolts if you are building a motor and can't afford $100-140 for bolts/studs you might want to think again about your build.

I'll get off the fence for you guys.

I only say they aren't 'R' replacement spec unless they're stretched, per how I interpret the manual.

I'd never reuse those head bolts if they were stretched at all. And if they were torqued and I didn't know the initial measurement, I wouldn't reuse them

Depending on source, they range from $3.89-$6.48e, so a set is cheap insurance.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Tomas Cobb used to have a fan control temp function in ATR sometime ago. They droped it because it wasn't doing anything. I suspect it's the same with versatune. Where the fuck is Lex and how the fuck do you mention someone nowadays.

you are absolutely correct on both points:

cobb did have those tables
cobb removed them b/c they didn't do chit.

I think Ant did determine fan control is NOT within the ECU but IDK for sure.

[breakfasteatre]

yeah, at that cost, worth it to get new ones. Plus, just signed up for the mazdaspeed parts program. Their prices are much cheaper than local canadian dealers.

mazda just announced that they are offering a contingency program for the time attack series i run in. Fuck yeah!

i wonder if the stock bolts are the same length, wherein it seems the arp studs lengths vary a bit

ill answer that question when i get them in

[phate]

Originally Posted by breakfasteatre yeah, at that cost, worth it to get new ones. Plus, just signed up for the mazdaspeed parts program. Their prices are much cheaper than local canadian dealers. mazda just announced that they are offering a contingency program for the time attack series i run in. Fuck yeah! i wonder if the stock bolts are the same length, wherein it seems the arp studs lengths vary a bit ill answer that question when i get them in

Mazda Motorsports is top notch. Glad to see others getting into it.

[Tokay444]

BLOW.
IT.
UP.

[Fast_Dude]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 BLOW. IT. UP.

X2

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Dano you are absolutely correct on both points: cobb did have those tables cobb removed them b/c they didn't do chit. I think Ant did determine fan control is NOT within the ECU but IDK for sure.

it technically is part of the ECU. theres a pin to turn on the fan relay, and then a check pin from the fan control module to make sure its actually running.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by phate Mazda Motorsports is top notch. Glad to see others getting into it.

Did you have to join SCCA to join mazda motorsports? When I try joining it asks for a race card or something like that.

[phate]

Originally Posted by atvfreek Did you have to join SCCA to join mazda motorsports? When I try joining it asks for a race card or something like that.

I have a local car club that I race with, so I used them. You do have to be a part of some racing organization, and SCCA is probably the most common (albeit way more expensive than local clubs).

[breakfasteatre]

i am not part of a car club.