Enki's EFR Ordeal...

[timjs]

Um, I should know this.

Are you on the stock HPFP? If so, why?

[littleloogy]

Give me a few years I'll make you this I look forward to the logs today

[Realgib3]

I've followed most of this thread, but may have also missed this part somewhere.

What FP internals are you running and have you ruled those out as causing any of these issues? Just looks like you're well well below the power level where you should be running out of IDC and losing any fuel pressure whatsoever.

[Tokay444]

Also, what are your commanded pressures in the area you're losing pressure? Was that adjusted previously to keep from over pressurizing the RV?

[86AmishMs3]

Can you just stop dicking around? 30psi and 30* of timing then VD.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by timjs Are you on the stock HPFP? If so, why?

LOL Any amount of corn + big turbo is a deathwish on stock HPFP internals.

Originally Posted by Realgib3 What FP internals are you running and have you ruled those out as causing any of these issues? Just looks like you're well well below the power level where you should be running out of IDC and losing any fuel pressure whatsoever.

I have Autotech internals installed right now, with a DW ITFP. Keep in mind I'm also running a TMIC which, while not really restricting flow isn't exactly helping in the boost temps department.

Running E30 (actually E31) has a scalar requirement of 1.11; if my understanding is correct, this means I'm pretty much flowing 11% more fuel at all times due to alcohol content. I've just reduced this to 8%, but still. I'm also told I'm flowing enough air for 400 horse easily, but with what E content?

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Also, what are your commanded pressures in the area you're losing pressure? Was that adjusted previously to keep from over pressurizing the RV?

I also have a PTP 2075 (IIRC) RV installed, which is why I'm hitting > 2k PSI. I'm HOPING that the extra pressure up top is allowing the ECU to run a shorter spray window and still meet fuel requirement.


Log information:
E30 map is running 18 degrees timing at 6k RPM, but I forgot to change two tables so the E26 map is limited to 16. That should account for the VDyno variance, and should also show how much power I'm getting with timing. Unfortunately, I only have about 1-2 degrees timing left at 6k RPM, so there's not that much more in it without increasing airflow further.

If I can't get closer to 375, I'll probably start a new map and run straight 91 to see how much airflow it can handle.

I also have a couple videos to go with several of the log files. As you can see, even with reduced power, 3rd gear is a bit of a handful.

2nd gear (detuned; full traction):

E26 2nd - YouTube

E26 2nd - YouTube

3+4+5:

E26 3 4 5 - YouTube

E26 3 4 5 - YouTube

4th:

E26 4th - YouTube

E26 4th - YouTube

[timjs]

The only reason I asked about the fuel pump, is that I haven't read about someone running out of fuel supply (pressure, not injector) with an upgraded pump before.

[Enki]

Well when I took it apart and cleaned it, it looked fine. There was a slight bit of sticky on the internals but they actuated just fine.

Everything else seems fine as well; the only other thing I can think of is ITFP going bad, fuel filter is clogged, or the return spring on the internals is weak. I can mostly actuate (not quite fully) by hand, and while it hurts to do it, it can be done. Anyone else able to almost fully actuate your internals by hand?

[86AmishMs3]

Why not run leaner? I target 12.5 with 25% ethanol and 19* of timing up top. Allows me to get to around 23psi and around 100% IDC

[Darth_Nuruodo]

He already addressed that the other day, short story is he's not comfortable with it.

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[Enki]

If I had ceramic coated pistons in a forged motor, I'd be cool with running lean. 12:1 makes me a bit nervous.
Edit: Aren't you running meth too?

[atvfreek]

How many gallons of e85 are you ruining at each fillup. If you run a 3/9 mix at the pump. That will give you enough for 380ish worth or fuel at 11.5afr

[Enki]

I was running more than that. 4/8. I'm on 3/9 now though. I might try to turn up the boost a touch (1 psi) up top soon.

[86AmishMs3]

Originally Posted by Enki If I had ceramic coated pistons in a forged motor, I'd be cool with running lean. 12:1 makes me a bit nervous. Edit: Aren't you running meth too?

No I'm not running meth. Have been running this way for over 2 years now. Understand if you're not comfortable with it. While maf tuning I've seen around 13AFR with no knock at WOT.

[Enki]

Alright well maybe I'll add some boost then after leaning back out to 12.

Freek, as a side note, I'm trying to make my peak horsepower up past 6k RPM; usually on these engines that happens a fair bit lower, doesn't it?

[cld12pk2go]

FYI,

I have been running 12.2:1 for about 2 years...I briefly dabbled with up to 12.7:1 prior to LCV3™ being resolved...

The biggest concern of mine isn't knocking (just isn't going to happen with E ~30-40 in my experience), but simply going lean if air distribution is uneven between cylinders running high 12's average might result in getting hot in the high airflow cylinder and increases the potential for toasting an exhaust valve or ringland...

[Lex]

The cast pistons in the stock motor don't like going above a certain temperature. Running hot will cause the aluminum to become brittle making it more prone to cracking and breaking. If you do a pull once in a while when it's relatively cool it's fine but if you put a lot of heat into the motor running leaner on the OEM pistons is not something I recommend.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Enki Alright well maybe I'll add some boost then after leaning back out to 12. Freek, as a side note, I'm trying to make my peak horsepower up past 6k RPM; usually on these engines that happens a fair bit lower, doesn't it?

Depending on the amount of air the turbo can flow and at what efficiency you're running it at is when you will see peak hp. On my 28 I see peak oh at about 6k but it starts to fall off pretty quick after that. But I push mine pretty hard.

[Enki]

The GTX 30s and this EFR have similar looking maps, yet when I look at most reverse taper GTX 30 vdynos I see a normal ish looking K04 curve most of the time...Example being Matrix311's car (whom I think you're tuning right now).

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Enki The GTX 30s and this EFR have similar looking maps, yet when I look at most reverse taper GTX 30 vdynos I see a normal ish looking K04 curve most of the time...Example being Matrix311's car (whom I think you're tuning right now).

In my case I am typically at peak power in the 6500-6800 RPM range running the GTX3071 at full tilt...



Red is a 4th gear pull...WGDC is going to 100% around 6000 RPMs after reverse tapering targeting ~400wtq up to that point...

[Enki]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go In my case I am typically at peak power in the 6500-6800 RPM range running the GTX3071 at full tilt... Red is a 4th gear pull...WGDC is going to 100% around 6000 RPMs after reverse tapering targeting ~400wtq up to that point...

What fuel/mix and meth?

Edit: Fixing post;

I know this doesn't count, but 4.76 60-100 time in this log, which felt amazing.

The only thing I can think of to explain the sudden huge jump in power is the reduction of IDC. Grant it, this log has 4 deg more timing up top, but the main thing I think is that I'm probably no longer spraying too far into the compression stroke and possibly during the power stroke.

At any rate, I'll be backing this log up with yet another tomorrow, and finishing up the boost /timing curve as well (I've got a bit too much torque around 4500, so probably pull half a degree of timing).

After that, it's probably time to hit the rollers.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Enki What fuel/mix and meth?

My bad on editing your last post on accident...meant to reply....


I have been running ~E30-E40 coupled with about 900cc/min of meth (about 16% of total fueling at peak power)...

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Enki At any rate, I'll be backing this log up with yet another tomorrow, and finishing up the boost /timing curve as well (I've got a bit too much torque around 4500, so probably pull half a degree of timing).

330wtq is too much at 4500rpms? Why?

[Enki]

I'm going off of the 1.09 numbers as some locals believe it to be more accurate/in line with their real dyno numbers. I want to be at or just below 350 just to be safe.




...Plus there's an ugly torque bump in that log. Lol

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Enki I'm going off of the 1.09 numbers as some locals believe it to be more accurate/in line with their real dyno numbers. I want to be at or just below 350 just to be safe. ...Plus there's an ugly torque bump in that log. Lol

I can only speak to my dyno results, which were much closer to the 1.01 values...

Either way when your current torque target starts to feel slow, you can always work it up... That is the beauty of BT...

[atvfreek]

1.01 usually always measures right on for hp. But I find even that is a bit favorable for tq when actually on the dyno.

[Enki]

Just did a couple of runs with my pops in the car. It seems I need to swap to load tuning because I lost 1.5 PSI up top (peak power happened at 5700 rpm in 3rd) and load dropped to 2.2 from the 2.4 I hit last night. I'll fix this and try again later.

If anyone has any quick advice on swapping to load tuning, now's the time to post it.

[Enki]

OK so first load map was a failure. Half throttle felt dead, then it tried to take off like a missile. It also dropped boost past 5k RPM probably due to the IDC limits placed on load maps. I did some rescaling on the load targets and hit the checkbox for alternate throttle targeting and so far that seems to have fixed the low pedal drivability issues, but I'm not sure if it's fixed the boost issues yet. Probably has though.

I might wind up having to dial this down due to heatsoaking and stock MAP sensor limiting my available peak boost, or I may just have to knuckle down and buy a meth kit at the very least to get things where they should be airflow wise (and stable).

[Enki]

Well, it looks like I need to set up a regular taper starting with high load request in the Throttle - Requested Load ABC tables rather than the reverse taper I have now, when looking at the stage 0 map. This is what it looks like if you don't:



Not sure what the deal is with the boost dropping off up top still though, and I've been through the load and throttle tables. Is this the Load Cap V3 thing people have been talking about, or is that something else?

[Enki]

Figured out the drivability issues, instead of trying to make a new Throttle - Requested load table, I hybridized the one from the boost targeted map I was running with the max values I've come up with from 75% APP up. If anyone cares to see them, let me know and I'll post screenshots.

At this point though, I think I either need meth or a better intercooling solution, since the difference between last night's and today's runs is only temperature, and power fell off a fair bit from what I had last night.

[86AmishMs3]

Originally Posted by Enki I'm going off of the 1.09 numbers as some locals believe it to be more accurate/in line with their real dyno numbers. I want to be at or just below 350 just to be safe. ...Plus there's an ugly torque bump in that log. Lol

1.01 was almost dead on with they dynojet @ arizona dyno chip. But forced air seemed to be around 1.09, I think their dyno is a bit giving though.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Enki Well, it looks like I need to set up a regular taper starting with high load request in the Throttle - Requested Load ABC tables rather than the reverse taper I have now, when looking at the stage 0 map. This is what it looks like if you don't: Not sure what the deal is with the boost dropping off up top still though, and I've been through the load and throttle tables. Is this the Load Cap V3 thing people have been talking about, or is that something else?

To resolve the last load cap issue (LCV3™ I think) make sure to have the following tables modded:

"Load Target Comp - High RPM (BETA)" table adjusted from the stock 0.20 to 0.00
"Load Target Comp - Injector Base Offset (BETA)" table adjusted from the stock 0.00 to 20.00

If you want to post your map, I will take a peek to see if anything else looks problematic...

[Enki]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go To resolve the last load cap issue (LCV3™ I think) make sure to have the following tables modded: "Load Target Comp - High RPM (BETA)" table adjusted from the stock 0.20 to 0.00 "Load Target Comp - Injector Base Offset (BETA)" table adjusted from the stock 0.00 to 20.00 If you want to post your map, I will take a peek to see if anything else looks problematic...

I'll keep this in mind, thanks. I'm going to be going back to the boost map for some...upgrades here soon. I will eventually be going to a load map, so I'll probably update the existing map with that info for later.

[Enki]

OK minor update time.

Did another 4th pull at the same exact location as the 400 horse pull, and put down almost 380. The only real differences between the two logs is boost and ambient temps, so it looks like I'll need meth as supplemental chemical intercooling to sustain 400 horse due to top mount. This is a far, far cheaper option for me than either replacing the intercooler with LAIC or FMIC, and it keeps the engine bay looking relatively sleeper. I'll likely hollow out one of my stock BPV and mount the nozzle (maybe two of them, not sure yet) in the blockoff plate beneath the stock BPV. I can then hide any plumbing by using a fake recirc tube.

Some quick stats:

Best log:
Starting IAT: 59
Starting BAT: 59
Ending IAT: 57
Ending BAT: 84

New log:
Starting IAT: 75
Starting BAT: 82
Ending IAT: 75
Ending BAT: 106

[Enki]

Meth kit ordered.

Sleeper spray in 5...4...

[Enki]

Oh side note: I'm going to attempt to make my own progressive controller. Open source; somewhere in the range of $30-50.

[Matrix311]

Originally Posted by Enki Oh side note: I'm going to attempt to make my own progressive controller. Open source; somewhere in the range of $30-50.

Sweet man curious to see how this will pan out.

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[Enki]

Meth kit arrived today, will be testing my custom Arduino based progressive controller probably this afternoon (with video).

[littleloogy]

Nice. Did you write the code yourself?

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

[Enki]

Sure did. Code works, have an issue with the Mosfet though.

Gate disconnected, source and drain connected properly, pump not running.
Gate hard connected to either +5 or -5 (fed from buck converter connected to same power supply), pump not running.
Gate connected to PWM pin on Arduino with either full PWM or off, pump not running. Arduino disconnected from positive side of the buck converter, pump not running.
Arduino disconnected from negative side of the buck converter, pump pulses at about 20%.

So it looks like something is causing a float condition with just a few volts but not full voltage either + or -. It's really strange but I'm going to look over everything tomorrow and try again.