Enki's EFR Ordeal...

[Enki]

I've started my map over from scratch, including mafcal (which I never did before; it was close enough so NCE); I'll be documenting the entire process and putting it up on the wiki, but I'm not sure if I should do it in stages (like how I'm doing my tune) or if I should wait and put it all up at once.

Until then, might as well post vdyno updates to here too.
Attached is OTS Stg 2 on spring pressure and without VVT; slow as balls with an 8.5 second 60-100.

[Enki]

OK I'm officially at a loss here guys. I've been told that I should be able to go past 2.5 load without having to use supplemental fueling, but every time I breach 2.5 load my AFR tanks and I get a misfire or sputter frequently.

I just regapped the plugs to .024 and the issue persists; any input would be appreciated.

[Boost_creep]

What's your afr target? It wanders quite a bit in that log.
What happens if you bring boost down? You are approaching 120% IDC.

Oh, and that turbo flows some air!

[Enki]

AFR target is 11.6; I previously calibrated for 11.4 so it's off a bit and leaning it out on the MAF only resulted in yet more strangeness...

I leaned the curve out from 3 volts to 5 volts by 6%, which resulted in near perfect 3rd gear AFR targets, but now my fuel pressure is dropping for apparently no reason at all, and BATs are killing my airflow.

[Boost_creep]

Are you running an e-mix on this setup?

[Etipp98]

Make your commanded AFR tables (knocking) same as the rest.


Never mind I think you already did this...

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Boost_creep Are you running an e-mix on this setup?

E29

Originally Posted by Etipp98 Make your commanded AFR tables (knocking) same as the rest. Never mind I think you already did this...

I have not done this yet, nor have I ever done this. Issue only happens past 2.5 load, but I'm going to try some other things here soon after work and see if they help.

[Boost_creep]

Are you using the injector control tables for E29, or maf scaling?

I think etipp is asking in reference to this thread:
AFR targets at loads higher than 2.50 ATR/ATP fix

[Enki]

Well shit.

I'll give this a shot and see if my new changes on top of this have any impact.

[Ziggo]

Oh so now you listen...... Yeah, using the injector scalars to adjust for E85 mixes doesn't work well on big turbo cars for some reason.

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[Enki]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Oh so now you listen...... Yeah, using the injector scalars to adjust for E85 mixes doesn't work well on big turbo cars for some reason. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Ziggy, my prior post was in reference to matching the tables...Which if I wasn't so brain fried when I posted that response I would have realized that I didn't change the values from OTS. I did find some other discrepancies that I need to address in the map, but first I need to take a step back for a bit and let shit unfuck itself in my head before I pop the engine or fuck up at work...Basically, I need to take a day or two and just decompress.

So I'll be doing that, probably getting back on the map/wiki from where I left off maybe Sunday.

[Enki]

Half a day off work, a 5 hour "nap" and 10 minutes of backtracing my maps for the wiki and I figured out where I went wrong.

Thanks to @Ziggo; and @Captain KR; for screwing my head back on straight and helping me find my fuckup.

[Lex]

Things to do when going above 2.50 load. Some or all may fix the issue:

- Rescale your MAF table as the WOT fuel scaling parameters stop working past 2.50 load
- Do not use injector scalars
- Set all fuel tables the same

Finally, going above 112 IDCs has shown to start destabilizing combustion and cause it to go lean and misfire.

[Enki]

So minor update time.

Hitting a peak of 2.4 load and >4.07 volts with only 75% WGDC on a 10 PSI spring (peaking 19 PSI, leveling to 18 by redline).

Not flowing as much as I thought I was, but I guess that means what I thought was wrong (when I realized my mistake) was the answer after all.

I've pulled another 2% MAF flow on the next map from 4v on and re-smoothed the transition to compensate for the tapering richness, but it's running a LOT better now. Also, this map had only 6 degrees timing up top; the next log/dyno will have double timing and 20 PSI boost to see what I get from it.

[Tokay444]

That's got to be getting pretty hot in the egt department.

[Dimenus]

270 whp with 6 degrees.

lol.

Tappin'

[Enki]

Not sure if I can call this progress or not; you guys can be the judge.
12 deg timing @ 6500 (about half my last known MBT)
AFR dipping 11 flat
Fuel pressure tanking to 1300s
20.8 PSI peak
2.58 load peak
4.21 MAF volts peak
412 g/s flow peak (on new MAFCAL)

Still missing/misfiring but not as bad.
Vdyno was with passenger ( @johnnyboy05gt; ) so fat driver + passenger mod accounts for the weight.

Gonna try leaning it out to 11.75 tomorrow and see if that helps fuel pressure a bit. Stay tuned.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Dimenus 270 whp with 6 degrees. lol. Tappin'

6 degrees comes in at 6500. Peak power only had 4.5.

[Enki]

Update time!

Leaned out fueling targets to 12:1 with no other changes; hit similar voltages/flows and very little sputter (single misfire or so) in 4th gear uphill pull.

Map still has 12 degrees timing @ 6500 RPM peak, but the numbers look MUCH better.

Fuel pressure looks to be dropping off past 2.45 or so load between 4.01 and 4.08 volts so I probably need to lean that range a bit in the calibration.

Thoughts on this log @Ziggo; @Lex; @phate;? Is this an actual out of fuel scenario or is there something wrong mechanically?

[Enki]

Guessing I do have a hardware issue, and I think I might know what it is. I'm thinking my HPFP return spring might be getting soft as it seems the hotter the car is the more pronounced my fueling issues are; the following is a snippet of a log that was taken after cruising around town running errands and doing a third gear pull (AC was used but turned off for the pull):



Here is the analysis from attempted reproduction; note that the log was taken from the same logging location both times with only time spent letting everything heat up real good (mid RPM driving w/ AC on):

Mid-Temp Run: Oil Temp (gauge): ~177

First Sub-1600 cell
AFR: 11.76
BAT: 133
Boost: 20.24
MAF Flow: 327.94
Load: 2.35
HPFP PSI: 1497
RPM: 5308


Lowest Sub-1600 cell
Same as above


High Temp Run: Oil temp (gauge): ~210

First Sub-1600 cell:

AFR: 11.76
BAT: 115
Boost: 19.3
MAF Flow: 225.17
Load: 2.32
HPFP PSI: 1574
RPM: 3850


Lowest Sub-1600 cell

AFR: 11.47
BAT: 117
Boost: 20.02
MAF Flow: 351.92
Load: 2.47
HPFP PSI: 1204
RPM: 5411

Third log was taken on the return trip going uphill after oil temps dropped back down to the 180s from non-AC driving a short distance.

Anyone have a line on a package deal for new HPFP + new internals + new hardline + new rail valve?

[littleloogy]

I wonder if you can buy Corksports spring for their internals? They offer a stiffer return spring. I am wondering if you are floating your pump.

I had to get stiffer springs for my Briggs Flathead. I could not go passed 6,000 RPMs without floating my valves down the straightaways. A spring can only return so fast...

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[Enki]

That's a great idea, but it might also be tolerances. I'll contact @CorkSport; tomorrow and see if they will sell me a spring.

[phate]

Might just want to test a couple stock springs for their rate against yours. If the spring is compromised, a good stocker would probably fix it. I turn a couple more rpm than you and haven't seen issues, yet.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by phate Might just want to test a couple stock springs for their rate against yours. If the spring is compromised, a good stocker would probably fix it. I turn a couple more rpm than you and haven't seen issues, yet.

Last I checked buying a stock spring from the dealer also had a pump attached to it.

Are we at the point where we can buy individual parts for the pump finally?

[littleloogy]

I have a few stock springs here if you want to compare them to your spring.
I have been searching everywhere, even the UK for replacement parts for our pumps. Whoever decided not to allow parts to be sold individually should be branded an asshole.

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[Enki]

UOA came back; engine is apparently in great shape. Despite the sample from this oil change being done at the more than 6 month mark, Blackstone recommends I extend the interval further. Guess I'll do my next oil change in December or January.

[littleloogy]

This is excellent news. I was really worried I was going to see a "Enki's engine rebuild Ordeal" pop up.

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[Enki]

So, I've heard back from both companies, and here are the results:


Autotech states that they make all their internals to the same tolerance, so they won't be able to sell me a "loose" set. They would, however, check out the internals to make sure they are to spec with no issues if I could survive on a set of stock or otherwise internals for the time being.


@CorkSport; told me they didn't have any "spare" upgraded springs but that they would happily send me a stocker or two at no charge. Of course, I took them up on that offer.

Thanks guys!

[Lex]

Just going back on what you already determined but losing pressure at that flow rate and engine RPM does point to a hardware issue. The pump should flow plenty at that RPM to support that flow rate.

[Realgib3]

Originally Posted by Lex Just going back on what you already determined but losing pressure at that flow rate and engine RPM does point to a hardware issue. The pump should flow plenty at that RPM to support that flow rate.

Yeah I had this issue way back when and it was just my KMD's going bad. The heat just caused them to bind more so pressure loss got worse and worse and I ran it harder.

[Enki]

Well if my spring isn't bad compared to one of the ones I'm getting from CorkSport, I may be buying a new set of internals and having my existing Autotechs shipped back for analysis.

I'm weary of trying the CorkSport internals as they are inclined to build pressure more aggressively, but I'm running an aftermarket 2075 relief valve so that results in fuel cuts when out of boost on a stock fuel pressure table....Which I already know how to tune around, so I guess that makes the issue moot.

[Enki]

Looks like I'm going to need new HPFP internals; I'm going to contact Autotech with the attached pictures to see how they want to handle this issue or if I'm up shit creek. No clue how this happened or why, or even why it's only an issue at higher temperatures.

Also, I need a hard line as mine started to twist (but doesn't appear damaged) when I was taking it off, so car is out of commission for a bit while I get that all sorted as well.

If anyone knows where I can get a brand new hardline (sans pump), please let me know. If the only way to get a hardline is with the pump, then I guess I'll have to go that route.

Side note: when I took the spring off the pump, it was > 1mm compressed compared to the one @CorkSport; sent (thanks again!), though it's currently sitting at .4 MM shorter. Unfortunately, I can't really tell if one is stronger than the other due to girly typist hands, so that's still up in the air.

[Enki]

Hard line orderd. Thanks @Etipp98;!

Pending purchase of new pump and word back from Autotech on my current internals.

[Code Monkey]

I am in a similar situation as yours except I get random drops in fuel pressure as heat builds up. I also think it is a hardware issue. I just got a new ITFP installed and got a used stock HPFP and installed CS internals, will head to the track this weekend and report back if I still have misfires.

[Enki]

Pump ordered/paid for.

Just waiting on Autotech's response. If I don't hear back from them by noon ish tomorrow, I'll probably just order a set from Edge or something.

[Enki]

Stock HPFP probably shipped yesterday, and new internals from Edge are shipping today. Still no word from Autotech.

[Enki]

Thanks to @Etipp98; for the brand new hardline!

Still no word from Autotech even after a second email. I'll have to try to contact someone else in the company I guess.

Pump and internals should be here tomorrow sometime; I'm going to try to get the hardline installed today though, work permitting.

[Enki]

Autotechs just arrived (Thanks, @EdgeAutosport.com;!) and I've finally heard back from Autotech themselves. They are more than willing to send me a new set, or send that set to Edge for a refund (which is what I'll be doing).

Hopefully that replacement stock pump arrives today sometime soon...I've been itching to get back out on the road.

[Enki]

Back in the Saddle Again, Aerosmith - YouTube

Back in the Saddle Again, Aerosmith - YouTube

VDyno and 3rd gear log attached; oil temps ~214. Might be time to put the bigger WGA back in.

[littleloogy]

Woot woot!

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