The most awaited build in MSF history

[06Speed6]

Finally got a call from DCR about the vvt, core will be sent in today.

[djuosnteisn]

Did you ever find any conclusive data on why 5 layer gaskets are better?

[Dano]

because 2 more layers = bigger...bigger=better.

[Ziggo]

My completely unresearched, off the cuff guess.

It's like lumber or metals; the tighter the grain the stiffer the wood/metal (heh). The layers give it strength.


Zigatapatalka

[djuosnteisn]

Do head gaskets see flex? I know with wire, stranded core will hold up much better to abuse before it breaks compared to solid core. The more strands, the better is handles strain.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Do head gaskets see flex? I know with wire, stranded core will hold up much better to abuse before it breaks compared to solid core. The more strands, the better is handles strain.

That something different and due to stress/strain. The thinner the material the more it can bend (strain) before it reaches a given stress. With a thicker material (solid core) it generates more stress in the material for a given deflection, which makes it more prone to fatigue failures.


Zigatapatalka

[djuosnteisn]

Right, that's why i was asking if head gaskets ever see flex. Didn't think they did, but was just throwing out the idea.

Perhaps more layers handle thermal conditions better, helping distribute heat loads more effectively. No clue. Now i'm interested in why more would be better on layer count, assuming same thickness, lol.

[djuosnteisn]

I think the gaskets are simply "embossed" or stamped with ridges... to provide a spring like seal.

Look at the side views on the first page in this pdf:
http://www.cometic.com/catalogs/AutoDomestic.pdf


So more layers probably = more sealing bosses = better seal.

Dunno... have to work... will read later... unless ziggo posts answers before hand

[06Speed6]

From everything that I can find that actually looks reputeable, more layers simply means a thicker HG. The standard 3 layer is standard thickness and the 5 layer is thicker for a compression drop or to take up room for lost metal after the block/head surface has been machined, this is to prevent a misstimed engine from reduced crank/cam distance and added compression. I have seen nothing about a 5 layer out sealing a 3 layer if the head and block are machined properly, it seems debateable to me but if the engine/head is prone to warpage the 5 layer seems to be the way to go.

I dropped the torque plate off at the machine shop, they finished balancing the crank and just have the machining on the block and head left.

I also dropped off the timing cover and valve cover to get chrome plated, they are going to look like a mirror after they get done with them. It was $185 for the timing cover and $250 for the valve cover. They are copper plated twice, then polished, then nickel plated twice, and then chrome plated. This is an actual old school car show level chrome plate process. They mostly do bike parts and bike/auto wheels, but they can handle refridgerator doors and stovetops too lol. This is the first time I have ever had a car part chrome plated so we will see how it goes, hopefully ill be able to read a book off of my valve cover.

[phate]

Why doesn't someone just call cometic?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 From everything that I can find that actually looks reputeable, more layers simply means a thicker HG. The standard 3 layer is standard thickness and the 5 layer is thicker for a compression drop or to take up room for lost metal after the block/head surface has been machined, this is to prevent a misstimed engine from reduced crank/cam distance and added compression. I have seen nothing about a 5 layer out sealing a 3 layer if the head and block are machined properly, it seems debateable to me but if the engine/head is prone to warpage the 5 layer seems to be the way to go. I dropped the torque plate off at the machine shop, they finished balancing the crank and just have the machining on the block and head left. I also dropped off the timing cover and valve cover to get chrome plated, they are going to look like a mirror after they get done with them. It was $185 for the timing cover and $250 for the valve cover. They are copper plated twice, then polished, then nickel plated twice, and then chrome plated. This is an actual old school car show level chrome plate process. They mostly do bike parts and bike/auto wheels, but they can handle refridgerator doors and stovetops too lol. This is the first time I have ever had a car part chrome plated so we will see how it goes, hopefully ill be able to read a book off of my valve cover.

yah but now you will be able to see yourself doing this everytime the wrench slips and you bust your knuckles!

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by phate Why doesn't someone just call cometic?

Thats way too easy

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by phate Why doesn't someone just call cometic?

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Thats way too easy

+1


We need more mspaint drawings in order to solve this riddle.

[Dano]

I know a guy.....

[06Speed6]

Finally got through to south bend clutch, they can reline my full face disc to feramic for $270 and it should hold north of 700ftlb without issue.

[Boosten Ya(josh)]

Stock disk?

[phate]

So I just called Cometic and asked about 3 vs 5 layer gaskets. I asked specifically about sealing capacity and was told there is "no difference, not at all". They only alter thickness, lol.

[06Speed6]

Ain't that some shit

[06Speed6]

I degreased the engine area, you would really be surprised at how much shit can build up over 147k miles. I used an industrial degreaser and a scrub brush and and had to scrub for a while to get through it. Shit looks as close to new as its going to get.

I am going to paint it black this weekend. Should look nice with the chrome.

[socks]

pics of that too, lol.

[06Speed6]

Thats already black...

[Dano]

Originally Posted by phate So I just called Cometic and asked about 3 vs 5 layer gaskets. I asked specifically about sealing capacity and was told there is "no difference, not at all". They only alter thickness, lol.

so they are purely to alter compression ratio then?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Dano so they are purely to alter compression ratio then?

compression ratio, quench, yeah. However you want to look at it, it sounded like the # of layers had no effect on sealing.

[06Speed6]

Got new TT fmm bushing in today and its urethane not rubber. Now I need to press it in, wonder if I can fit it all in my vice...

Still havent painted my engine bay, I might start it tonight... maybe, its flipping hot as fuck.

[superskaterxes]

picts of new and old bushing side by side please

[06Speed6]

Alright, the new one is red, old is black

[djuosnteisn]

You must have had a really old one then, lol.

[06Speed6]

The bushing swap was cake! I got lotsa pics too.

The Arp flywheel bolts are perfect and I think they should be manditory for alum flywheels. The bolt head on them is at least twice as wide so they distribute clamping force more evenly and shouldnt deform the flywheel so much. Lotsa pics of that too.

The Arp crank bolt is a monster! It looks like it fits perfect also but I need my crank so that I can do a test fit.

The best news of the day is that I completely grenaded my tcase without breaking the case. I didnt open it up but the driveshaft flange just spins freely. I have a spare tcase that I thought was from a cx-7 but its identical to my tcase in every way so I think that it is actually a ms6 tcase. I test fitted it and that bitch bolted up perfectly. I installed the upgraded tcase bearing caps and torqued it all down, preped the sealing surfaces and sealed it up and bolted it back together so its ready to go now. Got lotsa pics of that too.

Ill post pics prolly tomorrow.

[06Speed6]

ARP stuff

[06Speed6]

Tcase #1 pic set

[06Speed6]

Tcase #2 pic set

[06Speed6]

TT FMM bushing replacement #1 Pic set

[06Speed6]

TT FMM bushing replacement #2 pic set

[06Speed6]

Dont need no stinkin $50 hex key bitches! Thats a 3/4" nylon lock nut from Lowes that cost 88 cents!

The other part is off of the trans, you have to take that plug out to tear it down.

[06Speed6]

ACL rod bearings also on order today along with a third throw out bearing, a timken pilot bearing, and something else that I cant remember

[06Speed6]

Tonight I walnut blasted my IM and several brackets, man that shit is easy to do and the gun is $30 from harbor freight. Im just glad that I have a fairly big air compressor, even so I was still waiting around some because it doesnt work as well under 100psi because the hopper is on the bottom and it uses a venturi tube to pull the media through.

[Dano]

FWIW I got the top feed hopper and it doesn't use nearly as much air. its actually the compressor tank more than the HP/CFM rating that dictates how much air it can supply to a device. I would also say it takes much less air to blast into the head than something in an open area.

I have like 30LBS of left over walnut media from my valve cleaning......thinking I'll blast anything in sight from now on to clean it.

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Just mounted the pauter rods and wisecos up and compaired them to the stockers and holy fuck there has to be at least twice the metal in the pauter rods

Originally Posted by Empurfektion When mine popped I went with k1's. After doing a lot of research I figured they were pretty good for the price and they still help up really well for all that I need. They still had twice the metal as the stockers too. It was crazy to me to see how thin the stock ones really are.

Are you going with Pauter rods because you think the material is better or because you like the design better?

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 I also dropped off the timing cover and valve cover to get chrome plated, they are going to look like a mirror after they get done with them. It was $185 for the timing cover and $250 for the valve cover. They are copper plated twice, then polished, then nickel plated twice, and then chrome plated. This is an actual old school car show level chrome plate process. They mostly do bike parts and bike/auto wheels, but they can handle refridgerator doors and stovetops too lol. This is the first time I have ever had a car part chrome plated so we will see how it goes, hopefully ill be able to read a book off of my valve cover.

Not an expert on chroming but I remember for best results you should have a copper layer anodized underneath the chrome. Not sure if that's for steel only or if that also applies to aluminum.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Finally got through to south bend clutch, they can reline my full face disc to feramic for $270 and it should hold north of 700ftlb without issue.

Is that with the stock PP? Dood, if so, that is highly unlikely. Spec's 3+ ferramic disc with the stock PP can only hold 470 lbs. IIRC the stock pp has a clamping load of 1950 lbs when new increasing to about 2100 lbs after ratcheting down all the way. With a 2500 lbs pp you can get about 120-150 lbs more down. That still only gets you to 620 lbs under the best conditions. Suspect the SB numbers are a lil exaggerated. I am running a ferramic / kevlar discon stock PP and I can tell you it does not hold more than 400 lbs.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 ARP stuff

That ARP crank bolt is a sexy beast. I'd like to see at what torque the threads on the crank snout give out.
I would also look into the bolts of the cams. I think most people only look at the washers and crank bolt as the cause of jumping timing but IMO it is much more likely the sprockets on the EX cam or the VVT are slipping. You have somewhere around a 3 times bigger diameter of the sprockets on the cams than the sprockets on the crank. Unless I am mistaken that also means there is about 3 times more leverage on the cam sprockets resulting in much higher torsion / shear load there.

Nice baller build!

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by Tomas Are you going with Pauter rods because you think the material is better or because you like the design better? Not an expert on chroming but I remember for best results you should have a copper layer anodized underneath the chrome. Not sure if that's for steel only or if that also applies to aluminum. Is that with the stock PP? Dood, if so, that is highly unlikely. Spec's 3+ ferramic disc with the stock PP can only hold 470 lbs. IIRC the stock pp has a clamping load of 1950 lbs when new increasing to about 2100 lbs after ratcheting down all the way. With a 2500 lbs pp you can get about 120-150 lbs more down. That still only gets you to 620 lbs under the best conditions. Suspect the SB numbers are a lil exaggerated. I am running a ferramic / kevlar discon stock PP and I can tell you it does not hold more than 400 lbs. That ARP crank bolt is a sexy beast. I'd like to see at what torque the threads on the crank snout give out. I would also look into the bolts of the cams. I think most people only look at the washers and crank bolt as the cause of jumping timing but IMO it is much more likely the sprockets on the EX cam or the VVT are slipping. You have somewhere around a 3 times bigger diameter of the sprockets on the cams than the sprockets on the crank. Unless I am mistaken that also means there is about 3 times more leverage on the cam sprockets resulting in much higher torsion / shear load there. Nice baller build!

Thanks man

I went with the Pauter rods because they are the heaviest rod available and the quality of the material and machine work is good. To me more metal is more strength.

The chrome plate that I am getting has two copper layers, then two nickel layers, and a chrome layer. The way it was explained to me, and I researched this online, its actually the nickel layer that you mainly see and the chrome simply protects it from corrosion. The chrome itself is supposed to me largely see through because its so thin. Maybe I understood it wrong, but it does have a copper layer.

I have a 2500lb pp and SBs feramic is actually supposed to be a large percentage graphite or something so it has more grip than other feramics at a cost of wearing out slightly faster.

Yeah that ARP crank bolt gets torqued to something like 180'lb, I had to buy a new torque ratchet because mine stopped at 175'lb lol.




Here is the first coat on a few parts, more to get painted later.

[Tomas]

What's the weight on the Pauters? I am not on in the camp that says more weight > more strength but the Pauter rods look like a good product.
I'll leave this here as a reference for you. From lightest to heaviest. K1--> Eagle--> Stock.







And Genpoo piston with gudgeon pin and rings.