2012 factory freaks?

[Lex]

When talking about these findings there is a distinction between the ability to hold boost and actual power the car makes.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Lex When talking about these findings there is a distinction between the ability to hold boost and actual power the car makes.

So true. Most of the time, more top end boost=less top end timing and/or higher boost air temps. Which can result in less peak hp.

Tappin

[taf0422]

this makes me hate pu's even more...

[jeopardy98]

This was a bone stock 2012 dyno.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by jeopardy98 This was a bone stock 2012 dyno.

On a DynoJet no less. My bone stock 2012 put down 230ish at the wheels.

[VitViper]

GenPu secretly 4tw?

[taf0422]

Originally Posted by VitViper GenPu secretly 4tw?

No

[Tokay444]

Because dynojet.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by taf0422 No

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Because dynojet.

Secretly angry Genwon owners?

[Tokay444]

No.
Genwon's know to use mustang dyno's. That's all.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 No. Genwon's know to use mustang dyno's. That's all.

Because mustang dynos can't be configured to read however the operator wants it to?

[phate]

If I remember, I'll call MazdaMotorsports about these 3 things:

Head design, turbo, and boost control solenoid.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by VitViper Because mustang dynos can't be configured to read however the operator wants it to?

They don't call them heart breakers for no reason.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 They don't call them heart breakers for no reason.

Some of them. I've seen heart breaker dynapacks and dyno dynamics. Just like I've seen them read stupid high as well. For pure number comparison purposes between cars/dynos across the country nothing beats a dynojet. Not saying there aren't shady operators that won't rig dynojet pulls when they want to...

But you already know all this.

[Darth_Nuruodo]

IS NOTHING SACRED, NO HONEST DYNOS?! But seriously, good numbers, interested in seeing how this turns out. Anything that helps my car offset driver-mod and pull like I don't need to lose a few pounds is alright by me.

[Lex]

Some track times would settle this better. Vit 109 traps are good but 2010s with a tune did these as well as well as well driven gen1s.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by Lex Some track times would settle this better. Vit 109 traps are good but 2010s with a tune did these as well as well as well driven gen1s.

108, and I haven't seen any genwon's with an intake & tune go 108-109... Especially on the 1/4 mile list, which is kind of depressing.

[dantes5823]

subbed.

[Boatcop1]

Originally Posted by VitViper Some of them. I've seen heart breaker dynapacks and dyno dynamics. Just like I've seen them read stupid high as well. For pure number comparison purposes between cars/dynos across the country nothing beats a dynojet. Not saying there aren't shady operators that won't rig dynojet pulls when they want to... But you already know all this.

Yes. It's all in how the tuner loads the car on the rollers. With all things being equal Mustang dyno's break your heart and Dynometer's gives you boners. None of that matters at the track!

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by Boatcop1 Yes. It's all in how the tuner loads the car on the rollers. With all things being equal Mustang dyno's break your heart and Dynometer's gives you boners. None of that matters at the track!

Pretty much. My MS3 trap speed given the mods gives me a boner, even with 140* BATs bwahaha

[A1ex]

subbed

[fortressofcomfort]

Yeah trap speed is really the best test. What's the point of a car that makes bags of torque at 6k rpms but only 150lb/ft at 5k? Area under the curve is what matters and, without doing a bunch of calculus, trap speeds at your local drag strip are the true test.

And I always thought Dynojets read low, while Mustang dynos and dynapacks read about the same and are more accurate. I guess I am wrong.

[jeopardy98]

Well I was at the track the other night and was failing miserably but I was trapping 105 and running high 14's. A guy in a srt4 ran a 14.2 and only trapped 101.

[fortressofcomfort]

That means you are making a good bit more powah than stock and need driving lessons.

[jeopardy98]

I need traction lessons apparently. I would love to have been able to hook up in at least 3rd. I'll just have to keep practicing and maybe get some stickier tires.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by jeopardy98 I need traction lessons apparently. I would love to have been able to hook up in at least 3rd. I'll just have to keep practicing and maybe get some stickier tires.

OK I finally figured out how to get traction.

Step #1) Turn on Launch Control:
1) Open your map in ATR
2) Go to Limiter Tables
3) Set FFS to 5000
4) Set LC to 2750
5) Set LC/FFS threshold to 6.21

Step #2) Dial back 1st and 2nd gears:
1) Go to Throttle Tables
2) Set APP Translation - 1st gear to 30%. In other words, set any value in the table to 30% that is > 30%
3) Set APP Translation - 2nd gear to 40%. Same thing, set any value in the table to 40% that is > 40%

Step #3) Load and test
1) Save map
2) Flash map to car
3) Find flat smooth road
4) Turn off traction control
5) Floor throttle. Do not lift during entire road test.
6) Ease clutch out with the idea you want the tach to stay steady at 3k rpms. You will hear boost build and the car will quickly start gathering itself. The clutch should be completely engaged when you hear your turbo fully spooled (at 35% lol). Practice.
7) With right foot planted, shift to 2nd at 6k rpms.
8) With right foot planted, shift to 3rd at 6k rpms.
9) Lift and go home.
10) Consider how the car did and all the variables that affect traction on a daily basis. Some of these are: ambient (outdoor) temperature, state of map (if you add or remove power globally, it will affect the APP % you need to run), the "stickiness" of the road you tested on versus the roads you generally drive on most, the amount of sunshine out that day, etc.
11) Consider first gear especially. You will probably always need to either "roll" into the throttle in 1st gear (after clutch is engaged at 3.5k+ rpms), or short shift to 2nd to prevent wheelspin. Don't expect 1st gear to ever be completely nanny proofed.
12) Consider where you want to be on the hero versus consistency continuum. For example, my goal is to win races and embarass as many fellow driving enthusiasts possible. I don't care if I can put a 13.5 in my signature when in reality most of runs are in the 14s or failed completely due to total traction failure. Therefore I want consistency. This means I'd want lower APP %s. Perhaps you are different, are drag racing on a very sticky (VHT) track that evening, and just want to impress everyone on MSF with one awesome run, or one great 60' time, or a pic of a broken axle that you can put in your sig. Then you'll want higher APPs overall and to say a prayer before each run that you find a bit of extra rubber left behind by that 9 second Chevelle that just ran in your lane before you or you find a bit of extra VHT or that you can slot into the groove perfectly.
13) Based on 10 through 12, if not 90% satisfied, copy your map to have a new version number (I find this works well), open new version in ATR, make changes in APP tables in roughly 5% increments, and go back to this section's #1.

Remember you'll never get perfect APP % #s that are always satisfying. You need to find APP % numbers that give you want you want most of the time.

[SRTie4k]

Originally Posted by jeopardy98 Well I was at the track the other night and was failing miserably but I was trapping 105 and running high 14's. A guy in a srt4 ran a 14.2 and only trapped 101.

SRT-4's also have 5 speeds and can stay in their powerband a lot longer than we can in our 6 speeds. They're much better to drag race with than an MS3.

[2011speed]

@VitViper

how da fuqq u manage a 107.xx trap?

we have same mods with the exception of my gutted 2nd cat, and yea i was on stock tires aswell, beatin the shit outta my car, 2.1 60 ft.

on a side note, am i the owner of the fastest pu on stock dp/tires? because velocity red

[VitViper]

@2011speed

I drove the fawk out of the car once it hooked, was making up for lost time in 3rd and 4th... car is *very* strong. I expect if I could hook 1st & 2nd I would be in the 12.9-13.2 area with a 109ish trap.

[BigJimMs3]

Hoping for 107-109 trap speed in about a month or so... Im at just about 300hp corrected 309hp uncorrected

[2011speed]

i would b very surprised to see 12's on stock tires. like i said i was cuttin 2.1 60 fts.

i could see my car trappin 107, MAYBE 108. 109 idk. ur time was on 50 e85 right?

[VitViper]

50/50 E85 yes. And I was talking more about running slicks. No way the car will do better than mid 13's on my track (shit track) with that kind of power on a FWD car /w street tires.

[2011speed]

Originally Posted by VitViper 50/50 E85 yes. And I was talking more about running slicks. No way the car will do better than mid 13's on my track (shit track) with that kind of power on a FWD car /w street tires.

ahhh ok that explains it. my time was on straight 93.

as soon as it stays consisently above 60 degrees here im gettin a 50 50 tune. Do u always run 5050?

btw get on FP chat lol

[VitViper]

Yes, always 50/50 now.

[jeopardy98]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort OK I finally figured out how to get traction. Step #1) Turn on Launch Control: 1) Open your map in ATR 2) Go to Limiter Tables 3) Set FFS to 5000 4) Set LC to 2750 5) Set LC/FFS threshold to 6.21 Step #2) Dial back 1st and 2nd gears: 1) Go to Throttle Tables 2) Set APP Translation - 1st gear to 35%. In other words, set any value in the table to 35% that is > 35% 3) Set APP Translation - 2nd gear to 55%. Same thing, set any value in the table to 55% that is > 55% Step #3) Load and test 1) Save map 2) Flash map to car 3) Find flat smooth road 4) Turn off traction control 5) Floor throttle. Do not lift until speedo reads 100mph or pussy. 6) Ease clutch out with the idea you want the tach to stay steady at 3k rpms. You will hear boost build and the car will quickly start gathering itself. The clutch should be completely engaged when you hear your turbo fully spooled (at 35% lol). Practice. 7) With right foot planted, shift to 2nd at 6k rpms. 8) With right foot planted, shift to 3rd at 6k rpms. 9) If you have room and balls, shift to 4th at 6k rpms and take her to 100mph. 10) Smile for me now, brother.

Good stuff. @rfinkle2

Is this a track map that can work for me? Sort of like what we discussed a few days ago?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by 2011speed @VitViper how da fuqq u manage a 107.xx trap? we have same mods with the exception of my gutted 2nd cat, and yea i was on stock tires aswell, beatin the shit outta my car, 2.1 60 ft. on a side note, am i the owner of the fastest pu on stock dp/tires? because velocity red

No, Payne Racing 67 ran a 13.2 on stock tires a few days ago.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by jeopardy98 Good stuff. @rfinkle2 Is this a track map that can work for me? Sort of like what we discussed a few days ago?

It is possible that 35% app may help, but you still want a small amount of wheel spin.

I am not a very good person to go to as far as 1/4 mile racing. I simply don't know enough about tire pressures to use, launch rpm's etc.

Payne Racing 67 and Driver311 as well as VitViper seem to know a lot more about drag racing than I do.

[jeopardy98]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 It is possible that 35% app may help, but you still want a small amount of wheel spin. I am not a very good person to go to as far as 1/4 mile racing. I simply don't know enough about tire pressures to use, launch rpm's etc. Payne Racing 67 and Driver311 as well as VitViper seem to know a lot more about drag racing than I do.

Fair enough. I would just like to get a decent de-tuned map that I can run at the track with LC and FFS. I'll play around with that a little as long as there isn't anything I can "mess up" by doing so.

@driver311 @Payne Racing 67 @VitViper

Do you guys have any suggestions? Currently running stock tires around 22 psi when at the track. Driver mod is a huge part but pegging the needle in 1-3 due to wheelspin is killing me.

[harryclay]

Originally Posted by 2011speed @VitViper how da fuqq u manage a 107.xx trap? we have same mods with the exception of my gutted 2nd cat, and yea i was on stock tires aswell, beatin the shit outta my car, 2.1 60 ft. on a side note, am i the owner of the fastest pu on stock dp/tires? because velocity red

What did you run? I pulled a 106 trap at mir with intake/tune and 3 gal e85. Deffinatly need to work on my drag racing driver mod

[Mizzle]

Dynos are only good for one thing - comparing gains on your car.

We need to get a side-by-side dyno day of Gen1, Gen2 and Gen2.5 together all at the same time.

Who's gonna do it?