2012 factory freaks?

[2011speed]

Originally Posted by harryclay What did you run? I pulled a 106 trap at mir with intake/tune and 3 gal e85. Deffinatly need to work on my drag racing driver mod

its in my sig, 13.4@106 with intake internals tune on 93.

@rfinkle what are his mods?

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

[Mizzle]

^^ @rfinkle2

[Floridaspeed]

According to virtual dyno I am at 271 whp with my current mods. Tuned by bucker! I am waiting to put on my UR DP and then get an upgraded tune from bucker. Hopefully be around 290-295 at the wheels.

I've got a 2012 btw. Let me know if you want to see some logs.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by jeopardy98 Fair enough. I would just like to get a decent de-tuned map that I can run at the track with LC and FFS. I'll play around with that a little as long as there isn't anything I can "mess up" by doing so. @driver311 @Payne Racing 67 @VitViper Do you guys have any suggestions? Currently running stock tires around 22 psi when at the track. Driver mod is a huge part but pegging the needle in 1-3 due to wheelspin is killing me.

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 It is possible that 35% app may help, but you still want a small amount of wheel spin. I am not a very good person to go to as far as 1/4 mile racing. I simply don't know enough about tire pressures to use, launch rpm's etc. Payne Racing 67 and Driver311 as well as VitViper seem to know a lot more about drag racing than I do.

I ran 32psi in my OEM tires. I didn't bring my air pump so I didn't test them at different levels, but experience has shown that the vast majority of summer tires run such a sidewall that you cannot and should not drop psi lower than 28-30 or you actually cave the tire in and are literally just riding on the sidewall. Stiff sidewall does not allow for the "drag slick" type of flex of the tire to give you a larger contact patch. So the key is to find out more about your tires before messing with PSI. That being said, I've always gotten my best times on 30-34psi on street summer tires, but I pretty much always use a stiff sidewall tire (most of then are fairly stiff anyway).

I tried running 40% throttle in 1st gear. It did not help, even being limited to 7-8psi. Track prep is HUGE, and if you end up on a track that barely even sweeps the track with a broom, you may be in for a hurting in the first couple of gears.

[driver311]

Definately have boost dialed back in 1st and 2nd. 22psi in tires is perfect. Clean them off outside the water box but no burnout. There isnt gonna be any lauching on streets. Roll out like your leaving from a stop light fast and short shift 2nd and let the power pull you out. Street tires and this car on the track is pretty much pointless. The short gearing and massive trq make for no fun times on streets LOL.

[jeopardy98]

I'm pretty lucky as far as track prep goes. My track is VMP in Dinwiddie and they do a good job of keeping it pretty nice. I set up a track map today with LC set and FFS. I also scaled back 1st and 2nd so we will see how it works out next time.

I was definitely too agressive on my launches but it sure doesn't take much to spin those tires. I was short shifting like crazy but once they break redline comes up super fast. I'll keep working at it. Hopefully I'm getting 2 fd rims soon and can get some Hoosiers on them but for now the stockers it is.

[rfinkle2]

I dropped the ball the last time you went to the track and completely forgot to cut your power down in 1st and 2nd. Hopefully the next time down we will have completed your map and I won't flake out on you. LOL.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by 2011speed its in my sig, 13.4@106 with intake internals tune on 93. @rfinkle what are his mods? Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

I am just messing with you. 13.4 is a great time.

He may have a DP and he can drive very well from what I understand. He is only running pump gas, but he may have some more bolt ons.

I know he FFS's without the tables active because he doesn't like the way the car reacts with FFS on.

Now if we can get Slowhatch to hook, he would be cookin' for sure. I think he trapped a little over 111mph the last couple passes this time out. He is running 3 gallons of e85 and a d07 nozzle though.

[jeopardy98]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I dropped the ball the last time you went to the track and completely forgot to cut your power down in 1st and 2nd. Hopefully the next time down we will have completed your map and I won't flake out on you. LOL.

You haven't dropped the ball at all. I'm very happy with the service you have provided me. You are busy and I have no problems being patient. Scaling down 1st and 2nd only took me a minute or two and that is now one less thing you have to worry about.

[darkrune]

This was done with smoothing 3 on a stage 1 AP map. Mods are AP and CP-E stage 2 RMM.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by driver311 Definately have boost dialed back in 1st and 2nd. 22psi in tires is perfect. Clean them off outside the water box but no burnout. There isnt gonna be any lauching on streets. Roll out like your leaving from a stop light fast and short shift 2nd and let the power pull you out. Street tires and this car on the track is pretty much pointless. The short gearing and massive trq make for no fun times on streets LOL.

^^ this

Notice he said "Clean them off." That means a quick brief (1 or 2 seconds) bit of wheelspin. I love watching dumbasses roast their radials at the strip. Esp one wheel peelers where the one spinning is the one I can't see. Radials do not have compounds that need to be heated to 200F lol, they are designed for, guess what, normal weather lol.

[jeopardy98]

Yea I never burn out. I just spin them up really quick and stop before the staging line. I think the dialed back map and the LC at 2700 will help with my 60' and hopefully I can pull some better times. I've got 2 fd rims in my near future so hopefully some Hoosiers won't be far behind.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by darkrune This was done with smoothing 3 on a stage 1 AP map. Mods are AP and CP-E stage 2 RMM.

Put smoothing to 5 and set the correction factor to 1.01 from 1.09.

[darkrune]

Fixed

[fortressofcomfort]

Hi guys,

I figured I'd try out this Virtual Dyno thingy with my latest map settings and logs. Can you take a look and tell me if this seems right and if not what should I check or what settings I need to change? Mods are in signature. Remember this is a self-tune based primarily on @Bucker 's "ATR Cheat Sheet.pdf" with 6 iterations of logging and self-tweaking.

Is it possible to have 308whp and this smooth of a powerband with no exhaust work whatsoever ?

Smoothing is set to 3 and dyno is Dynojet with a correction factor set to 1.09

I also attached a full screen shot of the Virtual Dyno program so you guys won't think I'm Photoshopping stuff. Let me know if you want to see my logs.

( 2012 MS3 + @Bucker ) = VOODOO

[jeopardy98]

Change your CF to 1.01 and see what you get.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by jeopardy98 Change your CF to 1.01 and see what you get.

I figured something wasn't right. OK I changed it to "Custom" Dynojet CF of 1.01 and reran the run. See thumbnail. 286whp. Seems more like it.

Still, since this is with just intake and tune, and are good smooth numbers, this points us again to "something has changed on the exhaust side for 2012" theory, no?

[Tokay444]

Smoothing 5.

Intake test pipe tweaked ots stage 1 map. 135000kms Genwon with 165psi compression in cylinder 3.


What were you saying about smooth?

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Smoothing 5. Intake test pipe tweaked ots stage 1 map. 135000kms Genwon with 165psi compression in cylinder 3. What were you saying about smooth?

Yeah yeah yeah, I know you have it out for me Tokay. That's a smooth curve. It really doesn't look like a real, typical DISI K04 curve to me though. Compared to what I just got out of VD, It is down 30 lb/ft and you are running a test pipe. Must be due to cylinder #3 right? Couldn't possibly be due to Voodoo, Unikorn, simply GenPu right?

[Tokay444]

Put your smoothing to 5 and watch were that 30 lb/ft goes.

[fortressofcomfort]

OK I'll do that tonight when I get home but a peak value is a peak value.

Seriouslay, let's all get back to the topic at hand, the original topic.

The thread is called "2012 Factory Freaks." The question is why are some of the major tuners consistently seeing higher outputs (at least after being tuned) from the 2012 model year MS3 ?

There is a theory that carbon build up just hasn't had enough time to lower output on low mileage engines.

There is a theory that there was a change to the head design.

There is another theory that something changed on the exhaust side of the turbo for this model year.

My virtual dyno supports the latter theory since, with bone stock exhaust system, intake and voodoo tune only, I am able to coax numbers (286whp, 329lb/ft) out of my 2012, which are numbers similar to pre-2012 Speed3s that DO have their exhaust side changed. Perhaps there was a bottleneck in the exhaust or turbo that Mazda opened up for 2012, I don't know.

Most of us agree that trap times in the 1/4 mile are a better indicator of OUTPUT than these virtual dynos.

One of you was going to phone Mazda?

These are the facts so far. I don't want this thread to drift off topic. I'm not here to flaunt my virtual dyno. I just happened to run the program last night and thought my setup and result supported one of the theories in this thread.

@phate : prior in this thread you said "If I remember, I'll call MazdaMotorsports about these 3 things: Head design, turbo, and boost control solenoid." Just giving you a little nudge, reminder kind of thing.

[Tokay444]

Because they have brand new motors.
It all seems like simple logic to me.

[abiezerf]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Because they have brand new motors. It all seems like simple logic to me.

Stop being such a troll. Your logic fails in epic proportions. There has to be some other change as earlier model Pu's did not show similar behavior.

[Tokay444]

Tuners have more knowledge of the platform now, and more tables are available to tune with.
Combine that with a brand new engine and you have your answer. No trolling about it.

[jeopardy98]

I'm not so sure about that. What about bone stock cars pulling more whp and more wtq than previous years? 250/265 is what I pulled bone stock. That is even better than the 263 claimed crank hp that Mazda claims if you consider a 15% loss from the crank to the axle.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Tuners have more knowledge of the platform now, and more tables are available to tune with. Combine that with a brand new engine and you have your answer. No trolling about it.

Because more tables and more tuning increases the power the car makes bone stock?

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Put your smoothing to 5 and watch were that 30 lb/ft goes.

As requested here is the same run/tune with smoothing set to 5. I lost 1hp and 3 lb/ft. So now it reads 285/326 on just intake and tune.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by VitViper Because more tables and more tuning increases the power the car makes bone stock?

No one has ever put a brand new Genwon and a brand new '12 pu on the same dyno on the same day.
Apples to apples here people.


My tune is basically an ots stage 1 map still on an old motor. So 30 extra lb/ft really isn't impressing me at this point. Until there is empirical data showing that the '12's actually make more, on the same dyno in the same day as any other year won or pu, with the same miles, I won't be convinced.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 No one has ever put a brand new Genwon and a brand new '12 pu on the same dyno on the same day. Apples to apples here people. My tune is basically an ots stage 1 map still on an old motor. So 30 extra lb/ft really isn't impressing me at this point. Until there is empirical data showing that the '12's actually make more, on the same dyno in the same day as any other year won or pu, with the same miles, I won't be convinced.

It's a dynojet, it's not exactly rocket surgery to compare #'s from different dynojets. That's as apples to apples as it's going to get and you know it, as there is no such thing as a "brand new" gen1 at this point. So far all I've seen are some pretty lame excuses and nothing useful from your end.

[G26]

I tuned a 2012 and there was nothing special about it.

[Dr. Speed]

Dead thread revival update request!

Did any of you tuning experts reach a general consensus regarding whether or not the 2012 MS3 makes more power from the factory than previous years? Now that everyone has several more months of experience with tuning/dynoing/tracking 2012's, what do you all think? Also, has anyone found any minor hardware differences with factory wastegate design, exhaust (dp), etc.? In my opinion, it'd just be nice to get some closure on this thread/topic. Thanks!

[Tokay444]

I think I have the highest power almost stock car here. Highest torque anyway.
340whp and 406tq on virtual dyno. Straight 94 pump. Intake and test pipe are the only power mods, and my tune.
Genwon with 180000kms on the odo.

[Printman]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 I think I have the highest power almost stock car here. Highest torque anyway. 340whp and 406tq on virtual dyno. Straight 94 pump. Intake and test pipe are the only power mods, and my tune. Genwon with 180000kms on the odo.

Now those are nice #'s. It is not the mods, nor engine but your tune that has generated the power. Good Job!

[Tokay444]

Finkle tune!

[ms3blackmica]

i really dont trust VD much anymore at least on my own car...unless its a MS6 (you fuckers get nice clean pulls even at high power levels lol)

When i got on the dyno 2 weeks ago, I didn't put down near the same power VD tells me. Although...my car was in a weakened condition so maybe I shouldn't speak so soon lol

But FWIW, I just rolled over 60,000 miles and I still have 200 psi in all 4 cylinders.

[Tokay444]

Many have switched back to dyno jet correction and a smoothing of 2 or three from 5 since the 1.1.9 fiasco. Now I don't know what's different in 1.2.0. Lol.
But when I switched to those parameters I got all my lost power back and breathed a huge sigh of relief.
I think 100000+ miles of carbon caked on my valves is aiding in swirl effect into the chamber and affect the combustion charge. Haha.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Many have switched back to dyno jet correction and a smoothing of 2 or three from 5 since the 1.1.9 fiasco. Now I don't know what's different in 1.2.0. Lol. But when I switched to those parameters I got all my lost power back and breathed a huge sigh of relief. I think 100000+ miles of carbon caked on my valves is aiding in swirl effect into the chamber and affect the combustion charge. Haha.

CLEAN THEM NOW !!!

lol i just cleaned mine at 58k and it was a mess. Night and day difference. Much power to be restored.

[Tokay444]

Haha.
I'm making my own beryllium injector seals. Then I need some TIGs, THEN I'll scrape the valves.

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Haha. I'm making my own beryllium injector seals. Then I need some TIGs, THEN I'll scrape the valves.

Thats dope son !

I may have some drawings in the near future that I may ask you to machine and send my way lol

[kritz]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Haha. I'm making my own beryllium injector seals. Then I need some TIGs, THEN I'll scrape the valves.

Want beryllium copper sealage, because exotic metal. How does it react with aluminum?