Besides BT and Built Motor - Is there any other power mods left?

[Pseud0logik]

Originally Posted by Dano this thread becomes more interesting by the day.

Poor drenkel just wants more power without going bt or build motor.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Pseud0logik Poor drenkel just wants more power without going bt or build motor.

For the money it is going to take to do a manifold, etc. a gtx3071 is a reliable upgrade.

Once installed (properly), that turbo should be every bit (if not more) reliable than the k04.

I know he said no BT but is it the install that he @drenkel is worried about?

[Dano]

BT at 18-20 PSI way safer than K04 at 22.

meth is a more complicated install than a BT
switching to E85 is fairly easy as long as you stay at or below 50%.

of course a new tune required for any of the three options.

[drenkel]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 For the money it is going to take to do a manifold, etc. a gtx3071 is a reliable upgrade. Once installed (properly), that turbo should be every bit (if not more) reliable than the k04. I know he said no BT but is it the install that he @drenkel is worried about?

The install does kinda worry me, but I'm sure I could figure it out. I was able to do the DP install by myself... sure it took like 8 hours lol... but I got it eventually. Seems like the turbo install isnt much more involved than the DP other than unbolting the manni and a few other pieces in the same area, and changing some hoses. There's how-to's on this site too, I'm sure I'd eventually work my way through it.

It's more of a warranty issue for me. My car only has 15K miles on it.

I'm in fairly good with the service manager at my local dealer, and he's cool with what I've done so far, even let him drive it a few times - but he's flat out told me "I'm fine with what you have on the car now, but If I see a BT on this car I will have no choice but to deny any warranty claim"

That's what's keeping me from jumping to BT now... I don't want to lose the warranty.

[Pseud0logik]

IMO, if you're making as much power as you are and you can still get warranty service then you might consider thanking your super lucky stars and just enjoy the car with what you've put into it.

Honestly, I'm jealous, I have to stock out every time I go to Mazda dealer. But with 52k miles, I don't have to worry about that much longer.

[drenkel]

I am very lucky =P

The service manager is an avid pool player, and I own the nicest pool hall in town. He loves my place and comes in at least a couple times a week. I hook him up here and there knowing one day I'll need a hook up from him as well.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by drenkel The install does kinda worry me, but I'm sure I could figure it out. I was able to do the DP install by myself... sure it took like 8 hours lol... but I got it eventually. Seems like the turbo install isnt much more involved than the DP other than unbolting the manni and a few other pieces in the same area, and changing some hoses. There's how-to's on this site too, I'm sure I'd eventually work my way through it. It's more of a warranty issue for me. My car only has 15K miles on it. I'm in fairly good with the service manager at my local dealer, and he's cool with what I've done so far, even let him drive it a few times - but he's flat out told me "I'm fine with what you have on the car now, but If I see a BT on this car I will have no choice but to deny any warranty claim" That's what's keeping me from jumping to BT now... I don't want to lose the warranty.

Then its time for E85 IMO.

good for ~20WHP and your motor will run safer...esp in the 110* south Texas heat.

[rfinkle2]

^^^^This OR...

Ask him how many games of free pool it would take in order for him to look away from the BT in your engine bay.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by drenkel Sorry guys, I shouldn't have posted my numbers in the first place. I made that mistake a year ago after I got my first tune by Joe with nothing but an intake and TP and got flamed to hell with everyone screaming inflated, and I defended Joe with everyone screaming liar even though I had a dyno sheet to prove it. Still, it was Liar Liar they screamed. I quit the forums for about a month after that, and I should have learned my lesson about posting my numbers but apparently nothing has changed in a year. There are other tuning solutions out there, but most people here use the AP because they can make modifications themselves and tweak stuff.. and I understand, alot of people like that. The AP is a great product and lots of people love it. My car was tuned with a different solution, by a guy who is paid by Mazda to tune their race cars. Just because I have made more horsepower than those who use the AP does not mean my tune is superior. Maybe Joe just has more access to the ECU than the AP, or knows some tricks you guys don't. It's also entirely possible that the Dyno local to me reads higher than normal. Either way it's irrelevant. But again, it don't matter and all this defending and bullshit calling is pretty childish. I did not post those numbers to get everyone in a flaming war, I was trying to post the information on my car and get some advice. I don't know a thing about tuning, that's why I take my car to Joe. I can't tell you what's different about my tune than yours, and Joe does not share any info about his tuning because he doesn't want to be copied. What I can tell you is that he knows his shit, and if you ever take a visit out to his place you will see multiple Mazdas parked there that MAZDA has provided him with free of charge for R&D. He works on these cars all the time, and not just the speeds. He has regular 3's there, and even a Mazda 2 he's been tuning. He also races them, and tunes the SCCA cars. That should tell you something, don't ya think? Out of everyone available, this is the guy Mazda chose. Let's just squash this now, you can either believe my numbers or not, it really does not matter to me. This thread has been completely derailed. I was simply looking for a few extra mods I could do without going into the BT / built engine area and it turned into a tuning war... really was not my intention. Thank you to the guys who provided advice, it is very much appreciated. I will research all you have said and use that knowledge to better my own car. For the flamers, just let it go. If you want to create your own thread debating what's possible and what's not, and which tuning solution is better then go for it. Please don't turn my thread into another warzone. This is my last post in this thread. No I will not post my dyno sheet, no I will not post a log for your virtual dyno. I tried that a year ago and even though everything was legit people still called liar liar and said I modified it.

suggestion...?

why not ask this Joe dude what else to use?.... lol

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny OP you can also do PNP to your head. I just finished mine but haven't started the car yet. Supposed to increase hp/tq a fair amount

did you do this by hand?.. or a professional machine shop?..

just askin..../

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by Pseud0logik I'm going to chime in here because I too know Joe, in fact I was at his shop today and we were talking about the very car which you are referring to. During the conversation he admitted that it was running a BNR turbo. So, not stock. Super great guy, really knows his stuff.

LOL... wow...

OP must be full of money and clueless...

just sayin.

how do you not know you have a BNR instead of stock?..

"oh, yeah i'll take that one...?"

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx LOL... wow... OP must be full of money and clueless... just sayin. how do you not know you have a BNR instead of stock?.. "oh, yeah i'll take that one...?"

I think they are talking about another car with the BNR turbo, but still, it sounds like this is possible and OP has no idea. That or he has been fed a line by the guy who did the work. OP, if you are over 340whp with the K04, more parts won't net you more power anymore.

Just as importantly, I can't believe I just liked one of your posts... WTF

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by drenkel I am very lucky =P The service manager is an avid pool player, and I own the nicest pool hall in town. He loves my place and comes in at least a couple times a week. I hook him up here and there knowing one day I'll need a hook up from him as well.

lol, fuck you...

thats a good deal.

Originally Posted by Bucker I think they are talking about another car with the BNR turbo, but still, it sounds like this is possible and OP has no idea. That or he has been fed a line by the guy who did the work. OP, if you are over 340whp withe the K04, more parts won't net you more power anymore. Just as importantly, I can't believe I just liked one of your posts... WTF

lol, favor returned....

wanna fuck?

[h.h.sk1nny]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx suggestion...? did you do this by hand?.. or a professional machine shop?.. just askin..../

By hand. About 10 hrs just on the head. Finished it with 120 rolls.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny By hand. About 10 hrs just on the head. Finished it with 120 rolls.

so you shaved off some of that HUGE drop off lip and made it more rounded from the exit of the IM runner port into the head?...

something I may do when taking my motor apart and putting it back together.

I want a full head job eventually but thats after my build and a lil more money saving...

[h.h.sk1nny]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx so you shaved off some of that HUGE drop off lip and made it more rounded from the exit of the IM runner port into the head?... something I may do when taking my motor apart and putting it back together. I want a full head job eventually but thats after my build and a lil more money saving...

Where do you say the huge drop off was? I don't remember there bein one. I port matched and polished. Are you talkin about the IM?

Do you mean on the intake side of the head by where the valve seats? No, I left those there. I figured they were there for a reason.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by h.h.sk1nny Where do you say the huge drop off was? I don't remember there bein one. I port matched and polished. Are you talkin about the IM? Do you mean on the intake side of the head by where the valve seats? No, I left those there. I figured they were there for a reason.

lol... ok I understand...

you PnP'd the ports going into the head...

yeah, inside the head there is this uber lip that can be machined BUT i'm sure it has to be PRECISE.

you'll see and have the details in or before a years time when I do my head.

[h.h.sk1nny]

Originally Posted by SpeedSixxx lol... ok I understand... you PnP'd the ports going into the head... yeah, inside the head there is this uber lip that can be machined BUT i'm sure it has to be PRECISE. you'll see and have the details in or before a years time when I do my head.

I got ya. Yeah, I decided to leave it.

I think the edge you are talkin about is on the bottom of the first photo.

[drenkel]

@rfinkle2

Ok you guys have instilled enough doubt in me and now I'm starting to question myself on what's truth and what's not.

Rfinkle2, who over at edge do I need to talk to to get a good deal on an AP? Can u get them to PM me ?

If they don't mind hooking me up a bit on the price I'll go to a different dyno shop and do a couple pulls with current tune, then I'll do a couple pulls with the proper AP OTS tune (out of my own pocket) and post up the results from a dyno shop that is completely neutral.

[drenkel]

@eric@edgeautosport

Can you hook this up?

[Pseud0logik]

Why do you have to get an AP? Just post a dyno sheet of your current tune.

Unless you did that already, and I just missed something...

[drenkel]

I want to see for myself if I was misled. If I was I will post it up for the world to see.

[Pseud0logik]

By misled do you mean you were told the numbers but not shown proof?

[drenkel]

No I was shown the proof, but I never got a copy.

As I said I want to go to a neutral dyno shop and do pulls with both tunes. I want to find out the truth. You guys have beat me down so far lol I'm having doubts, and that other guys testimony got me thinking of other things as well. I want to prove or disprove this unicorn.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by drenkel No I was shown the proof, but I never got a copy. As I said I want to go to a neutral dyno shop and do pulls with both tunes. I want to find out the truth. You guys have beat me down so far lol I'm having doubts, and that other guys testimony got me thinking of other things as well. I want to prove or disprove this unicorn.

good for you dude!

that will get you some real respect around these parts...

waiting on results...

and i'm now gonna go take my 3rd shit of the day..

eating healthy and mucho fiber really does your ass hole in...

fuck me..

[Pseud0logik]

Originally Posted by drenkel No I was shown the proof, but I never got a copy.

This clears up a lot. Thank you.

Looking forward to the results myself!

[spnkr21]

Just go to a different dyno first.
But, you'll prolly be disappoint.
Then confront that douche and get a refund! (...yeah right)

[drenkel]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 Just go to a different dyno first. But, you'll prolly be disappoint. Then confront that douche and get a refund! (...yeah right)

Just going to the dyno without an AP only proves if I have a unicorn or not.

If I take an AP to the dyno it serves multiple purposes:

1) I can compare the plots and power curves of the dyno sheets
2) If I do have a unicorn it might provide some insight into why I have a unicorn (ATR lets you look at the tables right?)
3) If it turns out I've been fed a line of BS I'll at least have a new tuning solution.

[Pseud0logik]

Originally Posted by drenkel (ATR lets you look at the tables right?)

You won't be able to look at the map that Joe loaded on your car with ATR.

Also, don't you need to have the Piasini tune uninstalled before you can install a COBB map?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by drenkel @rfinkle2 Ok you guys have instilled enough doubt in me and now I'm starting to question myself on what's truth and what's not. Rfinkle2, who over at edge do I need to talk to to get a good deal on an AP? Can u get them to PM me ? If they don't mind hooking me up a bit on the price I'll go to a different dyno shop and do a couple pulls with current tune, then I'll do a couple pulls with the proper AP OTS tune (out of my own pocket) and post up the results from a dyno shop that is completely neutral.

Before anyone goes apeshit, and pretends I'm trying to state that I'm the best Mazdaspeed tuner, better than this guy or that, I'm not even going to entertain that idea, and quite frankly, admit other guys probably have more ecu tuning experience than I do BUT...

Here is a deal... I'll make you a custom map for $0 if you decide to get an AP. That way, you can mod the car, make changes to your map, change fuels whenever you want, and I'll either walk you through table changes to make, or I'll make them for you. I'm always around (obviously) LOL.

We can street tune / e-tune the car, and then dial it in on the dyno when you go (if you'd like).

I'm not in any way stating that I have more experience than Piasani, and I actually have a lot of respect for Piasani, considering they were the first (and Ecutek) to tune the gen2 Mazdaspeeds, but let's make an apples to apples comparison, as far as comparing custom maps.

The best way to get a hold of Jp or Eric is to pm them or tag them.

JP@edgeautosport.com / Eric@edgeautosport.com

Originally Posted by Pseud0logik You won't be able to look at the map that Joe loaded on your car with ATR. Also, don't you need to have the Piasini tune uninstalled before you can install a COBB map?

An excellent point that needs to be addressed.

[drenkel]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Here is a deal... I'll make you a custom map for $0 if you decide to get an AP. That way, you can mod the car, make changes to your map, change fuels whenever you want, and I'll either walk you through table changes to make, or I'll make them for you. I'm always around (obviously) LOL. We can street tune / e-tune the car, and then dial it in on the dyno when you go (if you'd like).

Thank you so much @rfinkle2, this will be an even better comparison since both with be custom tunes.

I'll get a dyno with my current setup, then I'll work with you on a custom AP tune and dyno again.

When all is said and done we should be able to prove without a doubt which is better.

Thank you again for offering your time and assistance, I do truly appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Pseud0logik You won't be able to look at the map that Joe loaded on your car with ATR. Also, don't you need to have the Piasini tune uninstalled before you can install a COBB map?

Hmm... I thought the COBB could just flash over the ECU anytime, could anyone with more experience chime in on this? The AP should be able to overwrite whatever is currently on the ECU shouldn't it?

[rfinkle2]

@David@COBB would know what would need to be done to either overwrite a Piasani tune or to restore a Piasani tuned ecu to the factory rom.

(he may not answer until Monday)

[drenkel]

Just found this thread on a subie forum... they are talking about an EcuTEK tune that was locked, and a cobb guy said the AP should be able to flash over the locked tune.

Cobb ap over ecutek pro tune?? - NASIOC

I would imagine if it can flash over a locked ECUTek, it should be able to flash over a locked Piasini tune too

[spnkr21]

See what happens when MSF rides you?
You get hooked up with a legitimate tune that you can trust.

[SpeedSixxx]

Originally Posted by spnkr21 See what happens when MSF rides you? You get hooked up with a legitimate tune that you can trust.

i'll thank that....

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 @David@COBB would know what would need to be done to either overwrite a Piasani tune or to restore a Piasani tuned ecu to the factory rom. (he may not answer until Monday)

It will depend on which version. If he gets the AP, and it can download the stock ROM, we should be good to go, if it is not, he might have to send the ECU in.

-David@COBB

[phate]

Rob, thanks for hooking up Drenkel. This will be an excellent comparison.

Drenkel, you're in very good hands.

Rob and Drenkel, make sure you guys use some type of load bearing dyno, and that you use the same load and correction factor for the pulls since they must be done on different days. Make sure you dyno at the same shop each time lol. That's about as good of a comparison as we could hope for.

[drenkel]

@David@COBB

Once I get my AP - If it don't work for some reason can I just stop by the Austin shop? It's only like an hour away from me. I'd be more than happy to drive up if they can assist me there rather than mailing in my ECU.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by phate Rob, thanks for hooking up Drenkel. This will be an excellent comparison. Drenkel, you're in very good hands. Rob and Drenkel, make sure you guys use some type of load bearing dyno, and that you use the same load and correction factor for the pulls since they must be done on different days. Make sure you dyno at the same shop each time lol. That's about as good of a comparison as we could hope for.

Will do Phate. Thanks for the kind words. I can already tell by Drenkel's enthusiasm that we are going to make for a good team.

If nothing else, I think Drenkel will be happier with an AP because he will have full control of his ecu in the event he wants to run some e85, meth, tweak his tune occasionally etc.

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by drenkel @David@COBB Once I get my AP - If it don't work for some reason can I just stop by the Austin shop? It's only like an hour away from me. I'd be more than happy to drive up if they can assist me there rather than mailing in my ECU.

Yes, I didn't see your location before. You are welcome to come get it checked out in Austin as well during the weekdays, or stop by one of our First Thursday open houses we hold every month.

-David@COBB

[drenkel]

Sounds like we are set, just gotta wait for someone from EDGE to get back to me so I can buy the AP and well get started