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 Old 10-12-2018, 10:59 AM   #1
 
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Default Blew My 2011 MS3 Turbo (I think) In Spectacular Fashion

Was driving on the highway, passing people, no problem. But then had a bit of hesitation, glanced down and saw that I wasn't boosting much. A second later started smoking a ton out of the exhaust.

Engine felt okay, so I limped 2 miles to a gas station just off the highway and got towed to a local shop. The shop isn't a performance shop, but are folks I trust to be honest and professional.

The engine was down to about 2.5 quarts of oil, which they refilled to fire up the engine for a half minute or so. Fired up okay and wasn't making any untoward noises.

They think, as do I, that it's a blown turbo. But I'm no kind of mechanic and they are not a performance shop. So I'm wondering if there are any tests I should ask them to do before having them do a turbo replacement (they talked w/Mazda who told them to pull and clean up the exhaust as well). To make sure the engine isn't damaged.

They're estimating about $3200 for the work.

I'm also giving though to using an aftermarket turbo with a bit more power instead of the stock mazda one. And swapping exhausts since they have to pull it anyway. But again, that is all dependent on being as sure as possible the ICE isn't ruined.

So... yeah, if anybody has any tips for a non-mechanically inclined MS3 owner in testing the engine out before having work done to replace the turbo?

Thanks in advance.
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 Old 10-12-2018, 11:02 AM   #2
 
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Compression and leakdown test.

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 Old 10-12-2018, 11:06 AM   #3
 
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A couple more details...

Been doing regular oil changes myself w/Penzoil Platinum 5W30 and Purolater PureOne Filters since the car was new.

Car is basically stock in terms of the engine. Everything I've done is suspension or handling related.

I've had a Cobb AP since 4/2015, running stage 1 93 v234. I did not replace the HPFP, but mentioned that to the mechanic and he said there's no evidence of a FP failure. Obviously, if I go different exhaust and bigger turbo, I would do the HPFP as well.

Originally Posted by _Mazdarati View Post
Compression and leakdown test.

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I will ask the shop to do those. Thanks.
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 Old 10-12-2018, 11:06 AM   #4
 
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Originally Posted by yasun View Post
Was driving on the highway, passing people, no problem. But then had a bit of hesitation, glanced down and saw that I wasn't boosting much. A second later started smoking a ton out of the exhaust.

Engine felt okay, so I limped 2 miles to a gas station just off the highway and got towed to a local shop. The shop isn't a performance shop, but are folks I trust to be honest and professional.

The engine was down to about 2.5 quarts of oil, which they refilled to fire up the engine for a half minute or so. Fired up okay and wasn't making any untoward noises.

They think, as do I, that it's a blown turbo. But I'm no kind of mechanic and they are not a performance shop. So I'm wondering if there are any tests I should ask them to do before having them do a turbo replacement (they talked w/Mazda who told them to pull and clean up the exhaust as well). To make sure the engine isn't damaged.

They're estimating about $3200 for the work.

I'm also giving though to using an aftermarket turbo with a bit more power instead of the stock mazda one. And swapping exhausts since they have to pull it anyway. But again, that is all dependent on being as sure as possible the ICE isn't ruined.

So... yeah, if anybody has any tips for a non-mechanically inclined MS3 owner in testing the engine out before having work done to replace the turbo?

Thanks in advance.
Like he said, comp and leakdown test.

Were you going WOT in 6th passing people?
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 Old 10-12-2018, 11:10 AM   #5
 
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You didn't do HPFP? That's another issue. You need that when modding, period. Especially considering you're tuned using a god awful OTS tune that even accounts for and tells you to have HPFP.

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Running a stage one OTS from Cobb also accounts for intake and flow modifications. Why were you running a tune not meant for mods when you have none?

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 Old 10-12-2018, 12:06 PM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by Thor Hammer View Post
Were you going WOT in 6th passing people?
Haha, no. I'm not very mechanically inclined, but I know better than getting on the turbo below 3000 rpms. I can't build a car, but I can drive one half-decently.


However, I tend not to waste time when driving. And I was driving spiritedly, perhaps even with some haste, at the time the turbo blew. This wasn't a case of a totally unexpected engine failure. More a case of an 8 year old turbo that has seen some hard use, I think.
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 Old 10-12-2018, 12:08 PM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by yasun View Post
Haha, no. I'm not very mechanically inclined, but I know better than getting on the turbo below 3000 rpms. I can't build a car, but I can drive one half-decently.


However, I tend not to waste time when driving. And I was driving spiritedly, perhaps even with some haste, at the time the turbo blew. This wasn't a case of a totally unexpected engine failure. More a case of an 8 year old turbo that has seen some hard use, I think.
A turbo failure doesn't typically eat as much oil as you are claiming you were missing when checked, especially if you limped it. My money is on ZZB.

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 Old 10-12-2018, 12:11 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by yasun View Post
Haha, no. I'm not very mechanically inclined, but I know better than getting on the turbo below 3000 rpms. I can't build a car, but I can drive one half-decently.


However, I tend not to waste time when driving. And I was driving spiritedly, perhaps even with some haste, at the time the turbo blew. This wasn't a case of a totally unexpected engine failure. More a case of an 8 year old turbo that has seen some hard use, I think.
Ok. Well, let me ask another way. What gear and RPM were you at when the incident occurred?

Pull the TIMIC and look down into the turbo outlet. Is it coated in oil? What does the smoke smell like? Any CEL's?
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 Old 10-12-2018, 12:17 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by _Mazdarati View Post
You didn't do HPFP? That's another issue. You need that when modding, period. Especially considering you're tuned using a god awful OTS tune that even accounts for and tells you to have HPFP.

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Running a stage one OTS from Cobb also accounts for intake and flow modifications. Why were you running a tune not meant for mods when you have none?

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Yeah, I know about the HPFP, which is why I brought it up. However, I've been driving for 3 years since I bought the AP without any trouble. And I've put more strain than I suspect is typical on the engine over that time. And it appears that wasn't the issue here (although I'm withholding final judgement on that for a few more days). Perhaps I was lucky in having a better than typical HPFP.

Having said that, I've read about enough zoom, zoom, boom's here to understand that I should('ve) done the HPFP awhile and that I should do it now, along with replacing the turbo and all. I had planned to do it, along with other power mods back when I purchased the AP in early 2015. Just never got around to it as other priorities came up.
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 Old 10-12-2018, 12:26 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by Thor Hammer View Post
Ok. Well, let me ask another way. What gear and RPM were you at when the incident occurred?

Pull the TIMIC and look down into the turbo outlet. Is it coated in oil? What does the smoke smell like? Any CEL's?
I was in 5th gear and I'm not 100% sure of the RPMs. If I had to guess, probably between 4000 and 4500.

The smoke smelled like oil, I guess. This being my first blown engine, I don't really know how to characterize it. It was a LOT of smoke, like a quarter mile smoke plume that was freaking other motorists out - presumably they thought I was on fire (which in a manner of speaking, I was). But I was burning oil.

I also had oil droplets all up the back of the car. After I got safely parked, I opened the hood and looked in and the engine looked remarkably unaffected (no oil or smoke or any other kind of evidence of the failure) for whatever that's worth.

I will ask the shop to pull the TMIC and check for oil in the turbo outlet. Would that indicate that yes, the turbo blew in some way and thus all the oil was being burned and what wasn't being burned was being spit down the outlet and out the exhaust? In other words, is that yet another confirmation that it was a blown turbo and NOT some other failure in the ICE?

Originally Posted by _Mazdarati View Post
A turbo failure doesn't typically eat as much oil as you are claiming you were missing when checked, especially if you limped it. My money is on ZZB.

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It could be. I did drive it slowly about 2 miles after it blew. And there was some oil leakage under the car when it was hauled up onto the flatbed. I don't know what that's indicative of.
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 Old 10-12-2018, 12:31 PM   #11
 
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Compression and leak test is the next step like other said. It will tell if you just need a turbo or a complete engine like it could be.

Keep in mind larger turbo need quite some supporting mods and a custom tune so in your case. i would check for a good used one or a new CHRA if your hotside isn't cracked and the engine isn't gone. There is plenty of low cost chineese CHRA.

Cats would probably need cleaning or deleting after a huge oil consumption.


usually k04 turbos start to smoke but boost almost like new and then smoke a little more and usually, you replace them because it smoke too much while still making boost. But this month, you seem to be the second one with a turbo that fail more suddenly....is it just because it was smoking for a long time and you didn't care about it ?

A blocked valve cover breather path may also be the reason for the oil consumption but losing 4l is not just a bit...unless you didn't look recently...
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 Old 10-12-2018, 12:35 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by yasun View Post
I was in 5th gear and I'm not 100% sure of the RPMs. If I had to guess, probably between 4000 and 4500.

The smoke smelled like oil, I guess. This being my first blown engine, I don't really know how to characterize it. It was a LOT of smoke, like a quarter mile smoke plume that was freaking other motorists out - presumably they thought I was on fire (which in a manner of speaking, I was). But I was burning oil.

I also had oil droplets all up the back of the car. After I got safely parked, I opened the hood and looked in and the engine looked remarkably unaffected (no oil or smoke or any other kind of evidence of the failure) for whatever that's worth.

I will ask the shop to pull the TMIC and check for oil in the turbo outlet. Would that indicate that yes, the turbo blew in some way and thus all the oil was being burned and what wasn't being burned was being spit down the outlet and out the exhaust? In other words, is that yet another confirmation that it was a blown turbo and NOT some other failure in the ICE?


It could be. I did drive it slowly about 2 miles after it blew. And there was some oil leakage under the car when it was hauled up onto the flatbed. I don't know what that's indicative of.
Usually lots of smoke and a dropping oil is indicating a ventilated block.

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 Old 10-12-2018, 12:49 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
Compression and leak test is the next step like other said. It will tell if you just need a turbo or a complete engine like it could be.

Keep in mind larger turbo need quite some supporting mods and a custom tune so in your case. i would check for a good used one or a new CHRA if your hotside isn't cracked and the engine isn't gone. There is plenty of low cost chineese CHRA


usually k04 turbos start to smoke but boost almost like new and then smoke a little more and usually, you replace them because it smoke too much while still making boost. But this month, you seem to be the second one with a turbo that fail more suddenly....is it just because it was smoking for a long time and you didn't care about it ?

A blocked valve cover breather path may also be the reason for the oil consumption but losing 4l is not just a bit...unless you didn't look recently...
Someone, who had been driving behind me, mentioned that my engine smoking at some point last year. I checked and couldn't see it happening. Doesn't mean it wasn't happening, but it if was, it was subtle and sporadic.

I put out so much smoke over the 2 miles to get off the highway, presumably burning oil, that I'm not surprised I lost 4L of oil. It was a LOT of smoke. The oil warning light had just started to flicker as I pulled of the highway and into the gas station to park. But no indication of low oil before that and I consistently changed the oil at about 3K miles (which, given the oil I was using, was probably overkill). I've driven the car less than 3K miles this year, though.

Good point about the bigger turbo requiring other engine mods. I'll take that into consideration.

If there's much more damage that just the turbo, I will probably see if somebody wants to buy a project car and either sell it as such, or junk it, and buy another one. I'm still hoping it's just a blown turbo with little or no collateral damage. 'Cause this has been a very, very fun car and I would miss it a lot.

Originally Posted by _Mazdarati View Post
Usually lots of smoke and a dropping oil is indicating a ventilated block.

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Assuming the block is hosed, that will show up in the compression test, yes?

The shop said they did some test which tested compression across all cylinders (I think that's what they said) and they all showed equal pressure. But that they would do the more intensive test pulling the plugs and all now. They also said that if the compression test showed no issues, they didn't think it would be necessary to do a leak-down test.

Honestly, I know very little about this stuff. Just what I've read here; absolutely no hands-on experience. I can talk a little about putting in an aftermarket suspension and rear motor mount. After that, I've no knowledge or experience.
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 Old 10-12-2018, 02:51 PM   #14
 
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They would have had to pull the plugs to do the comp test. Get the numbers from the test.

A ventilated block means it has a hole in it. Literally. Only way to tell is to get underneath it. But since they did a comp test I assume its not vented. A bent/broken rod would prevent it from making compression numbers that are even across all cylinders!

Good luck.
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 Old 10-13-2018, 11:59 AM   #15
 
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When my turbo started to go the first sign was audible. The K04 started to wine loudly during spool and then the death blow was coolant for me, not oil. I pulled my plugs and they all wet dry/normal in appearance and compression test was equal across the board (+/-2 psi). I would ask the shop how they did this without pulling the plugs as mentioned earlier. That is an excessive amount of oil to be using in such a short span although you did say someone noticed smoke previously. Between your last oil changes did you notice a delta trend? Either way, best of luck and hopefully it’s just the K04. What’s the mileage of on the mill?
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 Old 10-13-2018, 03:41 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Tomumass06 View Post
When my turbo started to go the first sign was audible. The K04 started to wine loudly during spool and then the death blow was coolant for me, not oil. I pulled my plugs and they all wet dry/normal in appearance and compression test was equal across the board (+/-2 psi). I would ask the shop how they did this without pulling the plugs as mentioned earlier. That is an excessive amount of oil to be using in such a short span although you did say someone noticed smoke previously. Between your last oil changes did you notice a delta trend? Either way, best of luck and hopefully it’s just the K04. What’s the mileage of on the mill?
The shop didn't do a full compression test yet, just something, the label for which I forget, that made them think the ICE was okay. But they are doing a full compression test next, so I'm waiting to see how that turns out.

I don't know my exact mileage, I forgot to log my last oil change, but the one prior to that was at 51816. I change it at about ~3500 miles or so. So a bit under 60000. I was due for my next one.

I'm hoping for the best (blown turbo only), but planning for the worst. So went car shopping today. Had been planning to buy a new car anyway, but keep the MS3 (because it's so damn much fun).

Still not sure if I'd go with a large SUV or a sports car. Which is about as undecided as one can get, I guess. Finding out what the damage is on the MS3 will probably influence that decision.
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 Old 10-14-2018, 12:01 AM   #17
 
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“Don’t know my exact mileage”... That comment bothers me.

Sorry for your troubles man, but I’m at 104,300 miles on the K04. Making about the maximum amount of power reliably on the stock block. Boost peaking at 21 psi on the tune and obviously tapering off.

That much oil loss should not be from the turbo alone and in that short of time (read my first comment for my opinion).

Wish you the best.


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 Old 10-14-2018, 06:35 AM   #18
 
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My K04 failed at about the same mileage just past the 60k mark. It boosted fine right up till the end. I had parked it for the winter but I would regularly pull it out of the garage to run it up to temperature. I had noticed one that day there was a lot of smoke for idle (I would usually leave it to run outside while I did other work in the garage, maybe 30 min.) The exhaust smelled horrible and there was black dots all over the car from the wind blowing the exhaust forward. The idle was very rough. I shut the car off and checked the oil...it was down a lot, dont remember how much, but I dont think it was registering on the stick. Filled the oil and drove the car 10' into the garage, but it would barely move it was running so bad. In the end I had a slug of ice in the catch can line and a blown K04. Lucky I didnt do any other damage, but still, just lucky. I bought a chinese CHRA for $350 and have been mistreating it ever since (over 80K now) I also had to replace the #1 o2 sensor. I also dont doubt that I shortened the life of the primary cat, but it cant be plugged if I still run like I do. I have more mods than OP, mostly the basic mainstays, but I think OPs issue is very much alike. ...2 cents spent.

edit...I also had oil running out of the connections of my testpipe under the car.
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 Old 10-14-2018, 12:42 PM   #19
 
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I recommend taking the car to professionals of our platform. Not sure where your car is now but I see you're in Central Jersey with me. Get the car towed to Speed Perf6rmanc3 in Linden and they'll tell you exactly what happened. Im sure of it. That is if they have an opening for you, they're a busy shop.
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 Old 10-14-2018, 07:11 PM   #20
 
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I doubt its just turbo, given the larger oil loss. But, if it is, the BNR Stage 1 is true plug and play. It matches OEM flow, uses an OEM snail and housing, but is internally modified to run a Garrett 28 series CHRA. That permanently solves smoking turbo vulnerability of the K04.

Performance will be indentical or slightly better than a new K04, but with almost bulletproof reliability.

If you are looking for an SUV, consider Audi's Q5 with the 3.0 supercharger. The '13-17 model years have supercharger forced induction. I bought a new '17. Still have the MS3 below. One pulley swap and a Stage 2 tune takes the 3.0 from 272 hp to 430. Yes, 430. 8 speed ZF 8 with brutally effective launch control and all wheel drive let you snap off 4.3 second 0-60 and mid 12 second quarters. With a few more mods (mostly exhaust and upgraded cooling for the water cooled supercharger) guys are in the high 11s on stock block and stock internals. They are that undertuned from the factory. In '18 they switched to turbo and the ECU has not been cracked. No real power mods yet for them.
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 Old 10-14-2018, 07:20 PM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
I doubt its just turbo, given the larger oil loss. But, if it is, the BNR Stage 1 is true plug and play. It matches OEM flow, uses an OEM snail and housing, but is internally modified to run a Garrett 28 series CHRA. That permanently solves smoking turbo vulnerability of the K04.

Performance will be indentical or slightly better than a new K04, but with almost bulletproof reliability.

If you are looking for an SUV, consider Audi's Q5 with the 3.0 supercharger. The '13-17 model years have supercharger forced induction. I bought a new '17. Still have the MS3 below. One pulley swap and a Stage 2 tune takes the 3.0 from 272 hp to 430. Yes, 430. 8 speed ZF 8 with brutally effective launch control and all wheel drive let you snap off 4.3 second 0-60 and mid 12 second quarters. With a few more mods, guys are in the high 11s.


Sorry to hijack this thread, but I am actually pre shopping for a daily before I refresh the engine in the 3. Plan is to pay it off this year and buy a fun daily. Build the speed to about 500hp. Pay off the daily and then get a dream car after the 5 years and keep driving the daily. Basically keep flip flopping sports and practicality.

With that being said I’m looking at the Edge ST and also the Audi. Does having that much power in the daily make the Speed less desirable to drive?


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 Old 10-14-2018, 10:09 PM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by Jonb82 View Post
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I am actually pre shopping for a daily before I refresh the engine in the 3. Plan is to pay it off this year and buy a fun daily. Build the speed to about 500hp. Pay off the daily and then get a dream car after the 5 years and keep driving the daily. Basically keep flip flopping sports and practicality.

With that being said I’m looking at the Edge ST and also the Audi. Does having that much power in the daily make the Speed less desirable to drive?


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No, the Speed is a wild hooligan. Spins sticky tires all through first and second. With FWD, it can't hook up very well but handles very nicely. Fun.

The Audi just sticks and goes. No fuss, no drama, but less involved, less fun. It's heavy and has body roll in the twisties.

Apples and oranges. Love 'em both. Audi for daily driver. It smokes Camero and 'Stang V8s at stoplights with boring consistency, but, MS3 for weekend fun, especially back roads.
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 Old 10-15-2018, 10:56 AM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by Jonb82 View Post
“Don’t know my exact mileage”... That comment bothers me.

Sorry for your troubles man, but I’m at 104,300 miles on the K04. Making about the maximum amount of power reliably on the stock block. Boost peaking at 21 psi on the tune and obviously tapering off.

That much oil loss should not be from the turbo alone and in that short of time (read my first comment for my opinion).

Wish you the best.


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I can totally understand that comment bothering you. In this case, it's because the car's at the shop, not at home so I can't just run out and check it for the exact mileage. And I just haven't been driving it much this past year, and thus don't need to check the mileage constantly to see if a change is due.

Also, I have a horrific memory, so I simply cannot recall what it was the last time I looked at it. Pretty sure I haven't hit 60K yet. But yeah, my memory is truly awful.

Is mostly why I keep a log of all the stuff I've done with it (in an Excel spreadsheet). Because it's the only way I can remember.

I need a brain mod, no doubt.

Originally Posted by Bertospeed3 View Post
I recommend taking the car to professionals of our platform. Not sure where your car is now but I see you're in Central Jersey with me. Get the car towed to Speed Perf6rmanc3 in Linden and they'll tell you exactly what happened. Im sure of it. That is if they have an opening for you, they're a busy shop.
A very good suggestion, and sensible. But the shop I have it at, while not a performance shop with expertise specifically on this or similar cars, is run by a guy I trust.
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 Old 10-15-2018, 11:18 AM   #24
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
I doubt its just turbo, given the larger oil loss. But, if it is, the BNR Stage 1 is true plug and play. It matches OEM flow, uses an OEM snail and housing, but is internally modified to run a Garrett 28 series CHRA. That permanently solves smoking turbo vulnerability of the K04.

Performance will be indentical or slightly better than a new K04, but with almost bulletproof reliability.

If you are looking for an SUV, consider Audi's Q5 with the 3.0 supercharger. The '13-17 model years have supercharger forced induction. I bought a new '17. Still have the MS3 below. One pulley swap and a Stage 2 tune takes the 3.0 from 272 hp to 430. Yes, 430. 8 speed ZF 8 with brutally effective launch control and all wheel drive let you snap off 4.3 second 0-60 and mid 12 second quarters. With a few more mods (mostly exhaust and upgraded cooling for the water cooled supercharger) guys are in the high 11s on stock block and stock internals. They are that undertuned from the factory. In '18 they switched to turbo and the ECU has not been cracked. No real power mods yet for them.
I like the Audi Q5 (and Q7). But SUV-wise, my requirements are (a) something very large with 3 rows of seats and a lot of hauling capacity to replace my old GMC Suburban, and (b) something that will slow my ass down on the highway (I already tend to drive like a grandmom on local roads for fear of killing some kid running out onto the road from behind a car). And something that will last (I've had my Suburban 22 years and it's still going, although because life works this way, it's not starting up at just this moment).

Anyway, I won't drive fast in a large SUV. Like 80 max on the highway, when it's new. Whereas I drive the MS3 quite fast, given low traffic conditions and a good road surface.

So basically, I'm looking for big and slow, as opposed to any kind of fast. I went out Saturday and looked at Ford Expeditions, Infinity QX80, and the Mercedes GL450 on Saturday. The Merc is plush inside, but too small for my needs (much like the Audis). The Infinity felt cheap inside, cheaper than the Ford, IMO. Although it looks nice on the outside and is fairly large. I will probably take a look at Yukon XL's too, although they had some issues with severe wind noise and buffeting at high way speeds recently.

I have another (probably stupid, I know) theory about things that will make me drive slow on the highway. If I were to get, say, a Porsche, I would have to drive slowly. Driving the way I drive, I see all the highway patterns there are to see. So I see tons of Porsche's, Corvettes, etc. driving quite sedately on the highway. I am guess that's because all such cars get more than their fair share of attention from LEOs. I've gotten away with some very fast driving because, in part, the MS3 can fly a bit under the radar. Not so much with a more obvious sports car. Maybe.

So after I left the Mercedes dealer, I went to a nearby Porsche dealer, where I spent most of my time talking about new and certified pre-owned 911's of various flavors. I probably should get the SUV, but I really want a 911.

I mean... I don't need to actually eat when I retire. Right?
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 Old 10-15-2018, 11:26 AM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by Jonb82 View Post
Sorry to hijack this thread, but I am actually pre shopping for a daily before I refresh the engine in the 3. Plan is to pay it off this year and buy a fun daily. Build the speed to about 500hp. Pay off the daily and then get a dream car after the 5 years and keep driving the daily. Basically keep flip flopping sports and practicality.

With that being said I’m looking at the Edge ST and also the Audi. Does having that much power in the daily make the Speed less desirable to drive?


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I love driving the MS3. Even driving it slowly I enjoyed. Even after all these years and there are days I'd take it out for a drive to nowhere just to drive it.

Back when I bought it, I was debating between the MS3 or the WRX STi. I did long test drives in both. The STi had more power and AWD, which was a plus on paper. But, for me, there was simply no comparison in terms of driving excitement. The MS3 won easily; it really wasn't even close.

Having said all that, I would guess this sort of thing is very much a personal thing and everybody's mileage will vary. Other folks might like the STi lots more.

So I'd test drive the different options enough to decide which feels best to you.
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The shop got back to me a bit ago, having done a full compression test and a leak down test. I should've written down the exact numbers, but all cylinders showed very close to the same pressure, I think it was high 1.7s.

They seem pretty confident that the engine is okay.

So I am leaning towards replacing the turbo and keeping the car. Trying to decide if I want to just keep things simple and go stock, or get something else that's close to stock, or go for a bit more power.

And also trying to decide if I want to replace the entire exhaust while they're under there and disconnecting it anyway. Seems likely that there will be at least some damage to the O2 sensor and/or the cat from all the oil that moved through.

If I go stock all the way, then I won't replace the HPFP. I know this is frowned upon here, and with good reason. But I also know that I've pushed this car to it's limits over about 8 years and the stock pump has held up well. I also, in reading through all the info out there over the years, saw instances where the aftermarket HPFPs have failed.

So it's not quite a black and white thing, to me. While rare for the aftermarket HPFPs to fail, it's a consideration when weighed against the so-far flawless performance of my stock pump when pushed hard over an extended period of time.

OTOH, if I go aftermarket anything (turbo, exhaust, etc.) then I'd feel completely compelled to also replace the HPFP. I'd probably also feel compelled to upgrade the intake and everything. All of which would be fun, but I have no time to do all the work myself (particularly since I'd be doing everything for the first time). So things would be getting expensive quickly.

My Corksport suspension has worn out as well, so I'm going to have to replace that too.

Alternatively, I suppose I can sell the car as is with full disclosure of the situation to an enthusiast who is looking for an MS3 to mod. Someone who has the time and inclination to work on the car themselves. Let them choose what turbo, exhaust, etc. they want.

Gotta think on this some.
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 Old 10-15-2018, 11:58 AM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by yasun View Post
My Corksport suspension has worn out as well, so I'm going to have to replace that too.
Your Corksport coilovers? Whats wrong there? I always wanted a set...
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 Old 10-15-2018, 01:31 PM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by Bertospeed3 View Post
Your Corksport coilovers? Whats wrong there? I always wanted a set...
Don't get me wrong. They've been great, and great fun. They're just wearing out now.

Just checked my maintenance log. I put them in in January of 2015. Been running them with about 1" clearance to my current winter tires (235/40 on 8.5s), with a bit more gap to my summers (245/35 on 8.5s). So not super low, not way high.

And I've been running them at 1 click from the stiffest setting all around, which has been pretty stiff for street use. The roads around me are horrendous. Another argument for me getting an SUV instead of another sports car.

Only real complaints I have would most likely be due to installer error (i.e. me). From the start, they were slightly noisy at the front, over certain types of bumps. And now, after nearly 3 years of use, they are even noisier. Probably something an experienced suspension mechanic would know how to cure.

I have a thread on the forum about my laughably inept installation of them. Biggest lesson I learned was to not try to install a suspension (for the first time especially) from a non-heated garage in January. The experience put hair on my chest. Then instantly turned it grey.

The second lesson is that, while I'm able to learn stuff okay, I'm perhaps not very mechanically inclined. I would've thought that all the years I spent being grounded as a child, and thus having nothing to do but build Lego masterpieces in my room, I would've picked up some mechanical acumen. But no.
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 Old 10-15-2018, 02:21 PM   #29
 
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Yeah I actually read your write up on the install, seemed like a headache. Just asking because I'm actually shopping for coilovers now and you being so close to me, I'd just take them off your hands. But I think I'm gonna stay away from those noises.

Back on topic, I never seen someone so against upgarding to HPFP lol. I would say take this opportunity to upgrade to a BNR S2 or 3 and get some HPFP. If you enjoyed your car before, imagine how it'll feel with a better turbo and a custom tune.

My opinion is pretty biased since I'd rather not see a Speed replaced, especially if its local. Where in Central Jersey are you?
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 Old 10-15-2018, 02:56 PM   #30
 
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I never personally blew a k04 but upgrading it with a GT2871 was the best mod i did to my car...Power to money ratio, driving smile etc etc.... Newer turbo are even better with revised wheels....A lot love the S3, some like the CS and i prefer Garrett but as long as you don't over do it, a mid range turbo is perfect for these car.
It will spool a tad latter but it is just better for the engine bloc since it will ask you to downshift instead of boosting in 6th at 2000rpm...
No more engine choking above 5500...


Btw my autotech internals run fine for many years....You would need that

A downpipe isn't necessary but could help makes more power IF you have the pump internals....

A properly sized intake is needed, a map sensor and a tune....

And then you may want more and more parts to help around or you can limit yourself and enjoy the new powerplant...It is easy to get up to 350, even 400 crank hp on stock bloc without problems. It is when you want to go above this that things could get messy...


You don't need a new clutch yet but if you abuse, it may be needed at some point.



Or..... you can keep it simple and just get a replacement turbo to return to the oem power of a plain ordinary stock ms3....
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 Old 10-15-2018, 03:47 PM   #31
 
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OP: Just because you think your stock HPFP has done fine, does not mean that it has. Do you actually log fuel rail pressure under load? Do you know for sure it stays above 1600 psi under load? If you are sure, then also keep in mind that your car is now what, almost eight years old. The piston and cylinder in the pump have been gradually wearing, year after year. Your turbo has been wearing.

You are about to replace the turbo with something new that is likely to increase boost over what just failed, even if a new stock turbo, The load and demand on the pump will increase. And you are at least running a stage 1 type tune with increased boost right now.

If you plan on keeping the car, just go ahead and do the pump internals now. $350 and an hour or two of your time, or get your installer to do it when doing the R&R on the turbo.

And if you do any upstream exhaust side mods like a test pipe in place of the secondary cat or consider gutting the primary, it is absolutely mandatory, as will be a tune.
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 Old 10-15-2018, 10:08 PM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by Bertospeed3 View Post
Yeah I actually read your write up on the install, seemed like a headache. Just asking because I'm actually shopping for coilovers now and you being so close to me, I'd just take them off your hands. But I think I'm gonna stay away from those noises.

Back on topic, I never seen someone so against upgarding to HPFP lol. I would say take this opportunity to upgrade to a BNR S2 or 3 and get some HPFP. If you enjoyed your car before, imagine how it'll feel with a better turbo and a custom tune.

My opinion is pretty biased since I'd rather not see a Speed replaced, especially if its local. Where in Central Jersey are you?
It was only a headache because I didn't know what I was doing, I think.

I'm in the Edison area. You?
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 Old 10-15-2018, 10:26 PM   #33
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
OP: Just because you think your stock HPFP has done fine, does not mean that it has. Do you actually log fuel rail pressure under load? Do you know for sure it stays above 1600 psi under load? If you are sure, then also keep in mind that your car is now what, almost eight years old. The piston and cylinder in the pump have been gradually wearing, year after year. Your turbo has been wearing.

You are about to replace the turbo with something new that is likely to increase boost over what just failed, even if a new stock turbo, The load and demand on the pump will increase. And you are at least running a stage 1 type tune with increased boost right now.

If you plan on keeping the car, just go ahead and do the pump internals now. $350 and an hour or two of your time, or get your installer to do it when doing the R&R on the turbo.

And if you do any upstream exhaust side mods like a test pipe in place of the secondary cat or consider gutting the primary, it is absolutely mandatory, as will be a tune.
You make very good points.

I watched a bunch of videos back a few years, when I was planning more mods, and planning to do them all myself. But if I do the pump now, I'd probably just pay the shop to swap one in.

So I'd probably just buy the CPE pump for whatever it's going for, 650 or so, I think. I'm guessing the labor costs to have the shop swap the internals would be close to the extra cost to get the whole pump and then ship back the original core to RPM.

Unless people think the RPM product is substandard for some reason.

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl View Post
I never personally blew a k04 but upgrading it with a GT2871 was the best mod i did to my car...Power to money ratio, driving smile etc etc.... Newer turbo are even better with revised wheels....A lot love the S3, some like the CS and i prefer Garrett but as long as you don't over do it, a mid range turbo is perfect for these car.
It will spool a tad latter but it is just better for the engine bloc since it will ask you to downshift instead of boosting in 6th at 2000rpm...
No more engine choking above 5500...


Btw my autotech internals run fine for many years....You would need that

A downpipe isn't necessary but could help makes more power IF you have the pump internals....

A properly sized intake is needed, a map sensor and a tune....

And then you may want more and more parts to help around or you can limit yourself and enjoy the new powerplant...It is easy to get up to 350, even 400 crank hp on stock bloc without problems. It is when you want to go above this that things could get messy...


You don't need a new clutch yet but if you abuse, it may be needed at some point.



Or..... you can keep it simple and just get a replacement turbo to return to the oem power of a plain ordinary stock ms3....
To be honest, I've been plenty happy with the power I've had so far. Which is why I've invested pretty much exclusively in handling mods, the suspension and the rear motor mount.

I did at one time plan to do the basic set of bolt on mods to get a bit more power (which is why I bought the AP). But then life intervened and all that got deprioritized.
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 Old 10-16-2018, 12:04 AM   #34
 
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Originally Posted by yasun View Post
It was only a headache because I didn't know what I was doing, I think.

I'm in the Edison area. You?
Nice! I'm in Rahway.
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 Old 10-17-2018, 06:41 PM   #35
 
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I vote (because opinions are like assholes) for an S3 (the cost of S3 over lower models is negligible), Autotechs and a Tune from reputable tuner(Im looking at Stratified).

Your argument about not needing internals might be miss lead, consider the instance of upgraded HPFP failures being much lower than the number of non-upgraded HPFP engine failures

...all in good fun!
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 Old 10-17-2018, 07:46 PM   #36
 
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Originally Posted by SyntheticAtmosphere View Post
I vote (because opinions are like assholes) for an S3 (the cost of S3 over lower models is negligible), Autotechs and a Tune from reputable tuner(Im looking at Stratified).

Your argument about not needing internals might be miss lead, consider the instance of upgraded HPFP failures being much lower than the number of non-upgraded HPFP engine failures

...all in good fun!
It's an excellent vote, but I'm afraid I'm going to disappoint w/my decision. At present, I have no car at all, with the MS3 sitting at the shop waiting for me to make up my mind, and my 97 Suburban down with a failed fuel pump (ironic, that). I've declared the SUV dead. Not throwing any more money at it. It hauled me and my kids all over creation, so it will be missed.

The simplest and quickest path forward is telling the shop to order the stock MS3 turbo and replace it and, if the O2 sensor is kaput, to replace that as well. That will (hopefully) get the car up and running shortly.

Boring, I know.

Assuming the MS3 runs fine after the turbo is in, I'll get the shop to replace the HPFP immediately. But no sense heading down that route until the turbo is in and the car shows that it's running well w/no evidence of subtle issues resulting from driving it after the turbo blew.

At that point, I'll have some time to make decisions about what to do next with the MS3 while being able to use it to get out test-driving a second car.

My ex-GF has offered me the use of her car for car shopping or whatever, but that is a dangerous path; there be dragons there.
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 Old 10-17-2018, 07:59 PM   #37
 
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Originally Posted by Bertospeed3 View Post
Nice! I'm in Rahway.
I got interested in messing with my car a bit too late to enjoy what looked like an awesome NJ NATOR scene. It seemed to have blown up with infighting right around the time I was getting bit by the mod bug.

From all the reading I've done here, there were some great folks helping each other out with their MS3's and MS6's. With that kind of support network, it would've felt a bit less scary tackling some of the mods myself. I had little (nothing, really) to contribute to the group in terms of expertise. But could've supplied the beer and done the scut work while I learned how to wrench some.

Ah well. Perhaps this new generation of Mazda 3 that was teased yesterday might bring with it a new Speed 3. Which might reinvigorate the whole NJ NATOR scene.
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 Old 10-17-2018, 08:50 PM   #38

 
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Originally Posted by yasun View Post
It's an excellent vote, but I'm afraid I'm going to disappoint w/my decision. At present, I have no car at all, with the MS3 sitting at the shop waiting for me to make up my mind, and my 97 Suburban down with a failed fuel pump (ironic, that). I've declared the SUV dead. Not throwing any more money at it. It hauled me and my kids all over creation, so it will be missed.

The simplest and quickest path forward is telling the shop to order the stock MS3 turbo and replace it and, if the O2 sensor is kaput, to replace that as well. That will (hopefully) get the car up and running shortly.

Boring, I know.

Assuming the MS3 runs fine after the turbo is in, I'll get the shop to replace the HPFP immediately. But no sense heading down that route until the turbo is in and the car shows that it's running well w/no evidence of subtle issues resulting from driving it after the turbo blew.

At that point, I'll have some time to make decisions about what to do next with the MS3 while being able to use it to get out test-driving a second car.

My ex-GF has offered me the use of her car for car shopping or whatever, but that is a dangerous path; there be dragons there.
Tell them not to bother pulling the exhaust. Your O2 sensor will be fine.

Stock k04 on my daily MS6 burns through a gallon of oil a month, right past the O2 and through the cat. Has for near 2 years. Your exhaust doesn't need to be removed, Mazda is just telling them to do it to clean it out. It will clean out with heat in no time.

I regularly beat the shit out of that motor with 1.5-3 quarts of burnt oil in it...WOT on an E30 tune with flat foot shifting type of hard driving. Leak down and compression 3 weeks ago were solid with 133k on it. Your motor will be fine if all you had was a turbo seal let go for a couple miles.

Good luck.
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 Old 10-17-2018, 09:26 PM   #39
 
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Originally Posted by xfeejayx View Post
Tell them not to bother pulling the exhaust. Your O2 sensor will be fine.

Stock k04 on my daily MS6 burns through a gallon of oil a month, right past the O2 and through the cat. Has for near 2 years. Your exhaust doesn't need to be removed, Mazda is just telling them to do it to clean it out. It will clean out with heat in no time.

I regularly beat the shit out of that motor with 1.5-3 quarts of burnt oil in it...WOT on an E30 tune with flat foot shifting type of hard driving. Leak down and compression 3 weeks ago were solid with 133k on it. Your motor will be fine if all you had was a turbo seal let go for a couple miles.

Good luck.
Thanks. I'll pass that along and see what they say. They may not be comfortable not following Mazda's guidance as they're not a speed shop. But it can't hurt to try.
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As long as they don't use bad chemical on the probe or silicone that isn't made for it on old gaskets, the probe won't fail. The cat will block before the probe fail...
Anyway, the old turbo gasket can usually be re-used without anything added on it.
They will probably need some new studs and nuts...
They just need to unscrew downpipe on the side to get the turbo out, no need to drop the exaust. I took mine out by the top. It is just the bottom bolt that can be a pita...

I hope you won't pay for a brand new genuine Mazda K04 at 1000+$. Get one used or just a CHRA, it should not take much longer to find....You don't need an expert to check a used one, as long as there isn't much shaft play and not cooked oil on the hotside it is good to go. You can compare shaft play with your old one too....
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