Blown motor. Can I screw the dealer for a new one?

[Gr8Speed]

There is a difference between spinning a rod bearing on a BT build and having a VVT actuator toss the valves with an intake.

My relationship with the dealer is solid because I'm honest. When I bought the car I told them I would be putting suspension bits on. They said they would not warranty tires or brakes for me because of that. I didn't care because who tracks a car and complains about OEM tires and brakes haha. They did say that in the event of a defect such as losing 2nd gear or popping the engine, I'd be covered.

Here I am at 2900 miles and the radiator blew a ton of holes in it, due to a manufacturing defect. Replaced no questions asked, with a bunch of suspension parts on the car.

I will be installing a FMIC down the line as well and have an Accessport. In the event something else happens, I will remove AP because the dealer told me not to leave a programmer installed as when they flash an update to the ECU it could brick it. Parts will be left on, and no questions will be asked BECAUSE WE ARE HONEST WITH EACH OTHER.

Originally Posted by littleloogy Can you not just turn your blown motor into your insurance? I have often wondered this... Sent from my iPhone 6

Not without an accident report.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Not without an accident report.

Got it. Blow engine, crash car. Thanks for the help! Lol


Sent from my iPhone 6

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by littleloogy Got it. Blow engine, crash car. Thanks for the help! Lol Sent from my iPhone 6

Remember when I hit that deer and the car wouldn't start after...?

[btstarcher]

I think we're missing an important point: why did the engine blow? You're being tuned by a reputable tuner, so it's not the tune. Were you low on oil? Boost spike? Was it some hardware failure because of something you did? Or was it something that failed prematurely due to manufacturer defect? If it's Mazda's fault, then by all means, they should pay. But if it's because of something you did, own up to it.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by btstarcher I think we're missing an important point: why did the engine blow? You're being tuned by a reputable tuner, so it's not the tune. Were you low on oil? Boost spike? Was it some hardware failure because of something you did? Or was it something that failed prematurely due to manufacturer defect? If it's Mazda's fault, then by all means, they should pay. But if it's because of something you did, own up to it.

Inb4WOTat2000rpm

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Remember when I hit that deer and the car wouldn't start after...?

I remember, that was a sad day. Did the deer end up living? What did the insurance say?


Sent from my iPhone 6

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by littleloogy I remember, that was a sad day. Did the deer end up living? What did the insurance say? Sent from my iPhone 6

The deer tasted great. Everything was covered. It ended up being the starter ground got knocked off, but I also somehow lost a ton of oil. So no idea. Didn't care to look but I assume either the mounts held the engine so rigid that the block cracked from impact or something went through the oil pan/filter housing.

[Bob-o]

Originally Posted by btstarcher I think we're missing an important point: why did the engine blow? You're being tuned by a reputable tuner, so it's not the tune. Were you low on oil? Boost spike? Was it some hardware failure because of something you did? Or was it something that failed prematurely due to manufacturer defect? If it's Mazda's fault, then by all means, they should pay. But if it's because of something you did, own up to it.

My thoughts exactly. No sense of going through the trouble of getting a new engine if the root cause is not addressed. After talking to OP, he said his oil level was on point, so that can be crossed off.

It may have been a boost spike, but I would have imagined a rod leaving his block before a bearing being spun. Seems fishy, but stranger things have happened.

Until a proper teardown of the engine occurs, we cannot say whether it was his fault or a manufacture's defect. Seems a little mysterious as he has relatively low milage, and the car was running like a top prior to going boom.

I think once we hear back the results from teardown, we can get our pitchforks and torches. OP unfortunately worded this thread in a way that seems slimey, which is why I can see where all the angst is coming from, but we all shouldn't jump to conclusions right away. Im sure those who have boomed/know someone in this situation can sympathize with this, they just acted in a more appropriate manner

[Jdraps13]

Originally Posted by btstarcher I think we're missing an important point: why did the engine blow? You're being tuned by a reputable tuner, so it's not the tune. Were you low on oil? Boost spike? Was it some hardware failure because of something you did? Or was it something that failed prematurely due to manufacturer defect? If it's Mazda's fault, then by all means, they should pay. But if it's because of something you did, own up to it.

I had just started my meth tune was at 328 VD prior to getting meth map, car seemed to be running strong, only slight knock at cruising speeds, did a pull for a log and that was that lymped the car to a safe lot off the highway and got it towed home I do have a log of when it happened I'll upload it and we will see


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[Bob-o]

Originally Posted by Jdraps13 I had just started my meth tune was at 328 VD prior to getting meth map, car seemed to be running strong, only slight knock at cruising speeds, did a pull for a log and that was that lymped the car to a safe lot off the highway and got it towed home I do have a log of when it happened I'll upload it and we will see Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now you mention this!?

[CockWarner]

Originally Posted by Jdraps13 I had just started my meth tune was at 328 VD prior to getting meth map, car seemed to be running strong, only slight knock at cruising speeds, did a pull for a log and that was that lymped the car to a safe lot off the highway and got it towed home I do have a log of when it happened I'll upload it and we will see Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you run your setup on an OTS tune at any point, or did you have a base-map as soon as you installed everything?

[Jdraps13]

Originally Posted by CockWarner Did you run your setup on an OTS tune at any point, or did you have a base-map as soon as you installed everything?

Nope not once had a basemap right away


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[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by CockWarner Did you run your setup on an OTS tune at any point, or did you have a base-map as soon as you installed everything?

Can you point me to the table that controls the lubrication of the bearings in ATR?

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Can you point me to the table that controls the lubrication of the bearings in ATR?

It's right between the Exhaust valve advance and the Auto shift tables... Didn't you know?


Sent from my iPhone 6

[CockWarner]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Can you point me to the table that controls the lubrication of the bearings in ATR?

I think it's only available in VersaTuner

[btstarcher]

Meth install fail....?

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by btstarcher Meth install fail....?

Seems very coincidental that the first squirt popped it.

Giggitty.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Vansquish This isn't strictly accurate. There is a flash counter in the ECU. If Mazda looks, they can see which firmware version the ECU is on, and how many times the ECU was flashed. If they don't have a record of the X # of flashes that were done on the aftermarket, then they can make an argument that the car was fucked with and deny warranty claims.

not according to COBB

[Jdraps13]

No not the first squirt I sprayed on my last map then he reviewed logs and they looked awesome then sent me a meth map with AFR dialed, timing upped and duty cycle changed @freektune;


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[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Jdraps13 No not the first squirt I sprayed on my last map then he reviewed logs and they looked awesome then sent me a meth map with AFR dialed, timing upped and duty cycle changed @freektune; Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It seems like you are full of fail.

@Justin@Freektune;

[Jdraps13]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 It seems like you are full of fail. @Justin@Freektune;

Appears to be so


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[btstarcher]

So no issues with the WMI installation?

[Jdraps13]

It went fine I was having some troubles setting failsafe proper and delaying spray got it working good tho


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[ALPINEST4RS]

*Keeping mouth shut*

Moving along..

Goodluck trying to screw Mazda sir.

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny not according to COBB

I see that Travis posted something to that effect several years ago: Ecu Tuning

That said, I have also talked to some Mazda techs, and I have family members who worked on the programming for various ECUs for a wide variety of cars over the years. They all say that there is generally a flash counter in pretty much all modern OBDII-equipped cars. This parameter is, however, generally buried fairly deeply, and Mazda only really looks at it if Corporate suspects the vehicle has been flashed and sends the ECU to Irvine.

[aackthpt]

Originally Posted by Vansquish No, that's not what you were/are doing. What you're actually doing is asking about how to go about defrauding a business. I know that's illegal here in the States, and I can't imagine it being much different North of the border.

Originally Posted by Scare Dem Anything to do with that motor has to go through MazdaUSA or Mazda Corporate. They send their own Tech or a couple of Tech's in to review and then make a decision on how they will handle each case. It's not Mazda's fault, things happen, own up.

Yes, so let's be totally clear on this. Whether they are a stealership or not (probably are but it's irrelevant) you wouldn't be hurting them, you would be hurting Mazda. And when an auto manufacturer sees warranty claims, has a recall, etc etc they try to avoid doing that again. So every time someone gets something replaced under warranty, it gives Mazda another reason to NOT build more 'speeds. And sure, they should take the warranty issues that they created, every one of them, but not more.

I like Mazdaspeeds, but I bet Mazdaspeeds are only marginally profitable to start with and they probably consider it a sort of halo car as it were. So let's try to give them every reason to PLEASE build MORE Mazdaspeed models - and NOT give them any reasons to

[hamfisted]

Exactly. Dealer will be happy to do as much work as you can throw at them as long as Mazda is reimbursing them for it.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by aackthpt Yes, so let's be totally clear on this. Whether they are a stealership or not (probably are but it's irrelevant) you wouldn't be hurting them, you would be hurting Mazda. And when an auto manufacturer sees warranty claims, has a recall, etc etc they try to avoid doing that again. So every time someone gets something replaced under warranty, it gives Mazda another reason to NOT build more 'speeds. And sure, they should take the warranty issues that they created, every one of them, but not more. I like Mazdaspeeds, but I bet Mazdaspeeds are only marginally profitable to start with and they probably consider it a sort of halo car as it were. So let's try to give them every reason to PLEASE build MORE Mazdaspeed models - and NOT give them any reasons to

Because the MZR is going to be used in a new vehicle after resources have been thrown to the Skyactiv. Nah.

[speedfreak44]

@Easter Bunny;

I may be wrong quoting cobb on that information but I swear I read it off something they posted. Does not matter. I do not feel like finding the source.

The OBD2 vehicles count key cycles between times when the ecu is flashed. You are correct in stating the ECU looks the same as if you removed the battery but Mazda WILL try everything to not warranty something that cost 8k to repair and I am positive they will check for key cycles. I do not think they can actually tell hey you had an AP installed but it will look fishy that your motor blew up by spinning a rod and you decided to remove and reinstall the battery on the side of the road just prior to bringing it in. Your only hope is to tell them you removed it to keep the battery healthy because you did not know how long it would be sitting there and to have the car towed in without the battery installed. Even then mazda may say they have no ecu data to check therefor they can not say it was their fault or user error. Either way I highly doubt they will warranty this.

[Easter Bunny]

Easy. Car wouldn't start I took the battery out to have it tested/replaced.

[InkedInspector]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Because the MZR is going to be used in a new vehicle after resources have been thrown to the Skyactiv. Nah.

You're missing his point. The fact that the next Mazdaspeed will likely have no power train components in common with this one doesn't change the fact that as a brand the Mazdaspeed division is more of a pet project than a money maker. Mazda does it to appease the fan boys and keep the "Zoom Zoom" spirit alive, but they aren't going to take a blatant blood bath on it. Case in point, see what has happened with the rotary and why there is no plan to return it to market at this point. Bragging rights and being unique are all great and dandy, but at the end of the day there is a bottom line that always reigns supreme. Luckily the speeds have for the most part handled the abuse they've been dealt fairly well. I don't know a lot of guys with bolt-ons/tunes that managed to blow them up. Left stockish there are plenty of high mileage examples out there on original motor.

Do I think this one busted motor is the make or break point for the next speed, no, that would be a ridiculous opinion to have. But, the mind set of racking up repairs on Mazda's coin that were due to end user, is something that slowly but surely adds to the negative side of Mazda's constant conflict of whether or not they can continue to produce a few niche models being such a small company relatively speaking.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by InkedInspector You're missing his point. The fact that the next Mazdaspeed will likely have no power train components in common with this one doesn't change the fact that as a brand the Mazdaspeed division is more of a pet project than a money maker. Mazda does it to appease the fan boys and keep the "Zoom Zoom" spirit alive, but they aren't going to take a blatant blood bath on it. Case in point, see what has happened with the rotary and why there is no plan to return it to market at this point. Bragging rights and being unique are all great and dandy, but at the end of the day there is a bottom line that always reigns supreme. Luckily the speeds have for the most part handled the abuse they've been dealt fairly well. I don't know a lot of guys with bolt-ons/tunes that managed to blow them up. Left stockish there are plenty of high mileage examples out there on original motor. Do I think this one busted motor is the make or break point for the next speed, no, that would be a ridiculous opinion to have. But, the mind set of racking up repairs on Mazda's coin that were due to end user, is something that slowly but surely adds to the negative side of Mazda's constant conflict of whether or not they can continue to produce a few niche models being such a small company relatively speaking.

Have you noticed that "Mazdaspeed Motorsports" is now changed to "Mazda Motorsports". I think Mazda as a whole had shifted focus. I think they'll offer something sporty, but not a 300whp AWD hot hatch like everyone wants. They want to be selling cars for 20-25k, not 40k.

[InkedInspector]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Have you noticed that "Mazdaspeed Motorsports" is now changed to "Mazda Motorsports". I think Mazda as a whole had shifted focus. I think they'll offer something sporty, but not a 300whp AWD hot hatch like everyone wants. They want to be selling cars for 20-25k, not 40k.

Mazda had to shift focus for the sake of staying alive, the new partnership with Toyota is a prime example. When Ford was there as a sugar daddy they could keep all the pet projects they wanted, Ford paid the development bills, but also reaped the rewards from the shard technology Mazda was able to come up with, plus Mazda could pull all the FoMoCo parts they wanted. Mazda now operates by being efficient. They make fewer models than most manufacturers, but they are ranked near the top or at the top of every segment they compete in. Consumer reports moved Mazda ahead of Honda this year for Brand Quality. Mazda is #4 in the world by their ranking.

I really think you're somewhat right in that there will be a 20k option speed that is a little more fun than the old base 2.3 was. But give Mazda credit, they have done their best to pander at least a little to the fan boys. They have always kept the Miata refreshed a relevant. They did their absolute best to keep the rotary alive, but it became too much of a liability and bad marketing for the majority of people that just saw it as a lemon. They came out with a truly great platform in the 6/3 speeds that many of us take for granted. They won multiple awards for the speeds, several 10 best car and driver picks, and just because the ST came along and stole their thunder at the end, it doesn't change the fact that the speed dominated the hot hatch world for a solid 5 years, which in car terms is a long time. I don't think they vanilla up the next speed, I don't think it'll be as hardcore as many of us wish because at the end of the day Mazda likes value. But a 30ishK car that is slightly more capable than the old 3 is not far fetched at all.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny Once you flash back the original tune and unmarry the AP the ecu looks no different than if you had disconnecTed the battery. Stop spreading bad information.

Yeah you could always throw a different battery on there and say that the battery died. That would be my story for having a low key cycle count.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by InkedInspector Mazda had to shift focus for the sake of staying alive, the new partnership with Toyota is a prime example. When Ford was there as a sugar daddy they could keep all the pet projects they wanted, Ford paid the development bills, but also reaped the rewards from the shard technology Mazda was able to come up with, plus Mazda could pull all the FoMoCo parts they wanted. Mazda now operates by being efficient. They make fewer models than most manufacturers, but they are ranked near the top or at the top of every segment they compete in. Consumer reports moved Mazda ahead of Honda this year for Brand Quality. Mazda is #4 in the world by their ranking. I really think you're somewhat right in that there will be a 20k option speed that is a little more fun than the old base 2.3 was. But give Mazda credit, they have done their best to pander at least a little to the fan boys. They have always kept the Miata refreshed a relevant. They did their absolute best to keep the rotary alive, but it became too much of a liability and bad marketing for the majority of people that just saw it as a lemon. They came out with a truly great platform in the 6/3 speeds that many of us take for granted. They won multiple awards for the speeds, several 10 best car and driver picks, and just because the ST came along and stole their thunder at the end, it doesn't change the fact that the speed dominated the hot hatch world for a solid 5 years, which in car terms is a long time. I don't think they vanilla up the next speed, I don't think it'll be as hardcore as many of us wish because at the end of the day Mazda likes value. But a 30ishK car that is slightly more capable than the old 3 is not far fetched at all.

I agree. I just don't see them getting into performance as much as sporty econo cars right now. It seems the miata (if it is ever actually coming out) is their entire focus on performance right now.

[ALPINEST4RS]

Originally Posted by aackthpt Yes, so let's be totally clear on this. Whether they are a stealership or not (probably are but it's irrelevant) you wouldn't be hurting them, you would be hurting Mazda. And when an auto manufacturer sees warranty claims, has a recall, etc etc they try to avoid doing that again. So every time someone gets something replaced under warranty, it gives Mazda another reason to NOT build more 'speeds. And sure, they should take the warranty issues that they created, every one of them, but not more. I like Mazdaspeeds, but I bet Mazdaspeeds are only marginally profitable to start with and they probably consider it a sort of halo car as it were. So let's try to give them every reason to PLEASE build MORE Mazdaspeed models - and NOT give them any reasons to

Mazda also wants to keep their customers, so they will warranty anything they can. It does not mean they don't want to continue a new platform. They gave up on the MZR the first year the gen 2 launched. It doesn't mean they stopped producing them though.. More so related to CX7 owners not knowing how to maintain a vehicle.

If you full bolt or BT a stock block without thinking "hey this will void my warranty" then shame on you. I don't blame Mazda for a second how hard it is to get shit approved for warranty. Everyone can sit here and say stealership this or that, personally its how the shops present themselves or how trained the technicians are. I can guarantee that there are a handful or more of good reputable dealer shops around. I will say though there are plenty more bad shops. I run my shop in the back and certainly give a fuck.

Even those dealerships try to fuck Mazda behind their back to up their numbers.

Had a guy doing converter seals next to me at GM. One or two a week, the new seal went into the box and the trans case got degreased. Power of the pen.

Had a customer blow out a rear end on a CTS-V. Found a nitrus tappet. GM said he can pay for the axle or have the warranty branded.

What pisses me off the most are people that want shit for free, or something fucks up on their car. Always went to a independent shop or a jiff. Then demands shit for free coming into the dealer for the first time.

I'm telling you, get your car maintained at a Mazda store. You chances of warranty helping you doubles. They may not pay for the entire repair, but they can save you thousands. I can go on and on about this because I live it. All dealers are not bad. Trust me.


P.S. don't mind me I'm just ranting.

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed I agree. I just don't see them getting into performance as much as sporty econo cars right now. It seems the miata (if it is ever actually coming out) is their entire focus on performance right now.

Mazda certainly has some pretty nifty stuff up their sleeve. You are correct about them focusing on econ cars. Remember though, they need something new to shove into the CX9 platform.

Its gas powered, with a turbo strapped on it. Don't worry their heartbeat is racing. It will always be.

[speedfreak44]

This argument about the battery is kind of a pointless thing by now. OP said he is sending the motor to machine shop.

My original argument was simply that there will be no key cycles on the ecu and no memory therefor suspicious looking where as you stated there is no change which is untrue to an extent @Easter Bunny;

[Gr8Speed]

I'm amazed nobody has said this yet... does anybody have any proof of any of these theories or is everyone relying on what their sister's boyfriend's dad's uncle said? I see no dyno sheets. I see no fancy graphs.

[MD1032]

I'm interested in seeing the infamous log.

Originally Posted by InkedInspector I was wrong about the title, but this went on forever and this guy is very much active on MSF. Never heard anyone give him shit for fucking Mazda out of a motor. I bit my tongue on it because every time I saw that thread I wanted to say the same shit you guys are saying here, man the fuck up. But it seemed like it was accepted behavior so I kept my nose out of it.

Think of it this way: The forum is changing and we value integrity more now. That's a good thing.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed I'm amazed nobody has said this yet... does anybody have any proof of any of these theories or is everyone relying on what their sister's boyfriend's dad's uncle said? I see no dyno sheets. I see no fancy graphs.

I'm relying on what COBB the manufacturer of the device in question has stated many times. Too lazy to go find it now.