Can this car handle?

[pzr2874]

Originally Posted by someguy Gen 2's suspension is a bit different to begin with, you have a gen 1? I can turn in harder than I care to do most of the time and it will hold on for ages. I'm quite happy with how it handles with just an RSB and on PSS's, especially because it's a daily driver and not a track car.

But that's how YOU drive your car..... with or without track time

Sure, sways and tires will do it for most...... but to actually take advantage...... Yes, Gen1

[someguy]

Originally Posted by GODspeed7 No dumbass read my post. I said you haven't been around enough. Yes you have 2 whole months on me. Woo Hoo! But you haven't been AROUND. I have how many thousands of posts on you? How many donation threads participated in? How many relief funds? You have what, a 1.7 post per month average? I know how this place operates and I LOVE it. You obviously still don't get it... Sent from my iBro 5 using tapatalk, Bro!

So posting is a clear representation of how "AROUND" you've been? LoL for all I know 2000 of your posts are pictures of your dick.

Some people

[someguy]

Originally Posted by pzr2874 But that's how YOU drive your car..... with or without track time Sure, sways and tires will do it for most...... but to actually take advantage...... Yes, Gen1

I'm not arguing that you can make the car handle better...I don't disagree with that. I'm saying those two simple mods are great on a daily driver and that it really makes the car a lot more neutral and does not understeer like it does stock.

[pzr2874]

Check out the 3 sisters threads roaming around... folk test the platform for sure

[GODspeed7]

Originally Posted by someguy So posting is a clear representation of how "AROUND" you've been? LoL for all I know 2000 of your posts are pictures of your dick. Some people

Yep posted in that thread too. There aren't many threads that I am not involved in. So because I post in the dock thread and the wives thread I am immature huh? What I was trying to get at is it seems like you aren't too involved here and in return don't realize how we act. If we are a bunch of assholes that disgust you, please feel free to check out M247. But by us being assholes to those that deserve it keep this forum clean and full of 90% knowledge and 10% bullshit.


Sent from my iBro 5 using tapatalk, Bro!

[Manny]

Originally Posted by pzr2874 @Manny; I don't get it ^

what

[BigRedSpecial]

So much fail in here...

To the OP, IF you're not actually a troll, stop reading the bullshit magazines spew and look at actual results from people's cars. Look up @super_pablo_; among others. The ST is the magazine's poster child right now, and mark my words, when it isn't the newest thing on the road anymore, the reviews won't favor it nearly as much. Fucking retard magazines always change their opinion of cars with time.

[Benis]

Originally Posted by someguy LoL for all I know 2000 of your posts are pictures of your dick.

That's a lot of dick pics

Thanks for giving back!

[JgamB]

Went to my first non-scrub Auto-X last week with 137 cars, some of them very heavily modified. A gen1 MS3 turned in the 2nd fastest time of the day. Plenty of Vettes, Porsches, STIs, Evos, 86s, and of course a shitload of Miatas and S2000s on hand

Would those sponsored brothers co-driving the MS3 be faster in a RWD car? Probably so. In a Focus ST? Probably not.

[praecurvo]

Test drove both back-to-back today and just ordered my Focus ST.

The Mazda is absolutely an amazing and brutal car. It IS a Japanese muscle-car. Front the gorgeous bulbous hood to all the creases and lines, the Mazda has me intrigued the most.

So why did I order the Ford?

Driving them both at about 8/10's on some abandoned back roads, the ST feels better engineered whereas the Mazda feels (with all due respect) like 5 or so Japanese dudes from MazdaSpeed Skunkworks got together and put the most AWESOMENESS car together from a Mazda 3 within a pre-set budget.

The center point of the ST feels where I'm sitting where the Mazda has all it's weight in the front of me. In high speed sweepers (60-80) the ST was like a precision x-acto whereas the MS# was like the knife of RAMBO!

The ST feels "nicer" inside whereas the Mazda feels more Spartan, save for that multi-button wheel in the MS3. The ST also makes me feel like I'm enveloped into the car whereas the MS3 I feel like I'm... driving a car.

All in all, the decision was based on me buying a car that I will AutoX, HPDE, and drive around the Rocky Mountains on business on a regular basis. The ST will do that in comfort and ease. And with just enough of neutrality in handling and good power, I believe I will be a very happy driver.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by praecurvo Test drove both back-to-back today and just ordered my Focus ST. The Mazda is absolutely an amazing and brutal car. It IS a Japanese muscle-car. Front the gorgeous bulbous hood to all the creases and lines, the Mazda has me intrigued the most. So why did I order the Ford? Driving them both at about 8/10's on some abandoned back roads, the ST feels better engineered whereas the Mazda feels (with all due respect) like 5 or so Japanese dudes from MazdaSpeed Skunkworks got together and put the most AWESOMENESS car together from a Mazda 3 within a pre-set budget. The center point of the ST feels where I'm sitting where the Mazda has all it's weight in the front of me. In high speed sweepers (60-80) the ST was like a precision x-acto whereas the MS# was like the knife of RAMBO! The ST feels "nicer" inside whereas the Mazda feels more Spartan, save for that multi-button wheel in the MS3. The ST also makes me feel like I'm enveloped into the car whereas the MS3 I feel like I'm... driving a car. All in all, the decision was based on me buying a car that I will AutoX, HPDE, and drive around the Rocky Mountains on business on a regular basis. The ST will do that in comfort and ease. And with just enough of neutrality in handling and good power, I believe I will be a very happy driver.

Glad you wrote a sophisticated post, disappointed you chose the less raw vehicle.


Sent while granny shiftin' and not double clutching like I should

[RedBull22]

I saw 300, I will take the Spartans side any day!!

Either way good luck with your purchase. I hope you enjoy it.

[RiddlerSpeed]

To each his own I suppose, hope you enjoy the car

When I test drove the ST i enjoyed it, but felt bored by it. The speed3 just had more charm to it. Not to mention 5k cheaper otd at highest packaged trim. And that my ford touch system would drive me insane! Mazda just felt more like a drivers car, so I bought one. LSD, k04 > k03, and less driver nannies.

Gotta get the one that makes you smile. That goes for cars and women I suppose.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by RedBull22 I saw 300, I will take the Spartans side any day!! Either way good luck with your purchase. I hope you enjoy it.

When you drive an ST and someone asks you where you're from you say your city. When you drive a speed and someone asks you where you're from you say MY FATHERS BALLS!!!


Sent while granny shiftin' and not double clutching like I should

[jk_ms3]

Lets be honest. You wanted the ST all along. And have fun with it. On paper they're really close. In the wild is a different story.

Start saving for a clutch. That's the first thing to go on them when you mod, and it seems like it'll go quick.

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by praecurvo Test drove both back-to-back today and just ordered my Focus ST. The Mazda is absolutely an amazing and brutal car. It IS a Japanese muscle-car. Front the gorgeous bulbous hood to all the creases and lines, the Mazda has me intrigued the most. So why did I order the Ford? Driving them both at about 8/10's on some abandoned back roads, the ST feels better engineered whereas the Mazda feels (with all due respect) like 5 or so Japanese dudes from MazdaSpeed Skunkworks got together and put the most AWESOMENESS car together from a Mazda 3 within a pre-set budget. The center point of the ST feels where I'm sitting where the Mazda has all it's weight in the front of me. In high speed sweepers (60-80) the ST was like a precision x-acto whereas the MS# was like the knife of RAMBO! The ST feels "nicer" inside whereas the Mazda feels more Spartan, save for that multi-button wheel in the MS3. The ST also makes me feel like I'm enveloped into the car whereas the MS3 I feel like I'm... driving a car. All in all, the decision was based on me buying a car that I will AutoX, HPDE, and drive around the Rocky Mountains on business on a regular basis. The ST will do that in comfort and ease. And with just enough of neutrality in handling and good power, I believe I will be a very happy driver.

The cars are basically cousins, so you can't go wrong. You've got the stigma of first year production versus a final year run with limited choices and potentially dwindling aftermarket support. Neither of those is necessarily true due to their shared / proven / complimentary parts, and I'm betting you will be reading MSF quite a bit as the F-ST platform advances.

I hope you enjoy the car.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

@IamJamen;


Sent while granny shiftin' and not double clutching like I should

[elks]

Well I own 2008, and from the factory the car definitely has a tendency to push. But with a few mods I can get quite a bit of rotation. As others have mentioned the RSB is a huge help. I also recently purchased some Koni yellows and with the rear at around 75% stiffness and the front at around 65%, the car is very neutral.

The weight distribution is definitely a little more unfavorable compared to the ST, but with a few mods you can definitely make the car handle really well. The rear is a bit too soft from the factory.

[L3THAL6]

Good luck with the ST, I'll actually be driving one at the Ford Ecoboost Challenge next weekend and I look forward to experiencing it.

[stockms3]

ST is a nice looking car it does need a proper diff. Also, I hope you didn't get the ford touchscreen system my girl has one in her SLE and that thing is pure garbage but the sony sound system is quite nice.

[zpele]

Originally Posted by praecurvo Test drove both back-to-back today and just ordered my Focus ST. The Mazda is absolutely an amazing and brutal car. It IS a Japanese muscle-car. Front the gorgeous bulbous hood to all the creases and lines, the Mazda has me intrigued the most. So why did I order the Ford? Driving them both at about 8/10's on some abandoned back roads, the ST feels better engineered whereas the Mazda feels (with all due respect) like 5 or so Japanese dudes from MazdaSpeed Skunkworks got together and put the most AWESOMENESS car together from a Mazda 3 within a pre-set budget. The center point of the ST feels where I'm sitting where the Mazda has all it's weight in the front of me. In high speed sweepers (60-80) the ST was like a precision x-acto whereas the MS# was like the knife of RAMBO! The ST feels "nicer" inside whereas the Mazda feels more Spartan, save for that multi-button wheel in the MS3. The ST also makes me feel like I'm enveloped into the car whereas the MS3 I feel like I'm... driving a car. All in all, the decision was based on me buying a car that I will AutoX, HPDE, and drive around the Rocky Mountains on business on a regular basis. The ST will do that in comfort and ease. And with just enough of neutrality in handling and good power, I believe I will be a very happy driver.

I sense pure troll making his get out clean with little to no blood spill.

A real man would never have made this post and would have just driven off into the sunset. You are obviously trying to egg us on with your well worded post and I will have none of it.

I hope you get run over by your ST when you leave it in neutral on your driveway while riding your little boy tricycle around behind it you hairless vagina shart.

[BeyonceSpeed3]

Sounds like the OP wanted an ST from the start and took all the new and latest reviews and his test drive magically ended up being exactly what he read about.

I'll go with the more "raw" car any day.

At least its not a VW lol

Originally Posted by zpele I sense pure troll making his get out clean with little to no blood spill. A real man would never have made this post and would have just driven off into the sunset. You are obviously trying to egg us on with your well worded post and I will have none of it. I hope you get run over by your ST when you leave it in neutral on your driveway while riding your little boy tricycle around behind it you hairless vagina shart.

This is what I was thinking. Very well worded, which is nice to read for a change, but come on. He sounds just like all the magazine and the reviews of the ST. Seems like he's educated in creative writing.

[bsilc]

Translation: I drive like a bitch and can't handle the MS3.

Asshole troll.

Originally Posted by praecurvo Test drove both back-to-back today and just ordered my Focus ST. The Mazda is absolutely an amazing and brutal car. It IS a Japanese muscle-car. Front the gorgeous bulbous hood to all the creases and lines, the Mazda has me intrigued the most. So why did I order the Ford? Driving them both at about 8/10's on some abandoned back roads, the ST feels better engineered whereas the Mazda feels (with all due respect) like 5 or so Japanese dudes from MazdaSpeed Skunkworks got together and put the most AWESOMENESS car together from a Mazda 3 within a pre-set budget. The center point of the ST feels where I'm sitting where the Mazda has all it's weight in the front of me. In high speed sweepers (60-80) the ST was like a precision x-acto whereas the MS# was like the knife of RAMBO! The ST feels "nicer" inside whereas the Mazda feels more Spartan, save for that multi-button wheel in the MS3. The ST also makes me feel like I'm enveloped into the car whereas the MS3 I feel like I'm... driving a car. All in all, the decision was based on me buying a car that I will AutoX, HPDE, and drive around the Rocky Mountains on business on a regular basis. The ST will do that in comfort and ease. And with just enough of neutrality in handling and good power, I believe I will be a very happy driver.

[DansSpace]

I test drove both the speed3 and ST extensively before making my way from a (boring as hell) 310whp Legacy GT. I chose a Speed3. Why? Because the ST is boring. Go around a turn, GREAT, NANNIES HALPD. Oh cool you can rotate the rear-end slightly! Too bad I'm not negotiating that right hand turn from Pebble Street to Maryland Parkway in a douchey manner that require the ass-end of my car kicking out on my daily commute.
Another reason why I didn't chose the ST. Oh, hit the gas, not nearly as fast. Don't deny it, because the MS3 traps 5 mph faster than an st in the quarter. The MS3 is by far the faster car. Oh, and when I hit the gas in the MS3, it feels like I'm hitting the gas. The wheel turns and hops, and it's a hell of an experience. The ST? It's vague feeling and you get an awfully fake sounding engine roar into the cabin. Not that the tires are doing much anyways, because it's not very fast.
Keep going on about how the ST is "perfectly balanced" and has cool track times for the car it is. How many of us are spending 100% of our driving time on a track? Go ahead. I'll wait till someone says "ME.". It won't happen. The MS3 has an interior that doesn't look like a geometry major with an IQ in the 40s designed it. It's much faster in a straight line. It turns, even though everyone acts like it can't (because the ST uses compooters to make it turn), its cheaper, and in the end, it put way more smiles on my face. The end.

[hamfisted]

Ford doesn't use "fake" engine noise like BMW & VW do. They connect a pipe to the intake with a diaphragm that passes noise but blocks airflow. My NC2 Miata had the same thing, and I liked it.

[faeker]

still gay

[The Nut]

What the hell is a "yolo"? Is that like "Rollo"? I love those little chocolate covered caramel bastards!

-Sent via ageing and not up with all the youngsters lingo

[Deesiel]

Originally Posted by praecurvo All in all, the decision was based on me buying a car that I will AutoX, HPDE, and drive around the Rocky Mountains on business on a regular basis. The ST will do that in comfort and ease. And with just enough of neutrality in handling and good power, I believe I will be a very happy driver.

I'm in a similar situation (cross shopping MS3 and ST) and HEAVILY leaning towards the MS3. The reason I'm still kinda considering the ST is because of the incentives that are available.

I also want something that I can AutoX, HPDE, and mountain road 'cruise'. It seems to me that the obvious choice for buyers like us would be the MS3. Why would you pass on a car with a mechanical LSD for a car that rotates using fancy brake wizardry? (That rotation comes from the ST automatically applying the inside rear brake on turns.) It would be ok if it were just a daily driver with an occasional mountain run, but a car you plan to track on a regular basis?? The Focus is a nice car for what it is, but if you want a car for performance driving, get the one that's better suited for it.

Here's a reminder of what Car And Driver had to say about the ST's track worthiness after they ran it for their Lightning Lap 2013 article...

Originally Posted by Car And Driver ...Even so, the Focus surprised us with its lack of pace in the early rounds. Two shortcomings stand out. First, the brake-based limited-slip differential doesn't hold up to track abuse. On numerous corners, the ST would spin its inside front wheel, signifying time being lost due to the power bleeding off in wheelspin. A traditional, purely mechanical limited-slip might work better. Second, the ST's maximum torque of  252 pound-feet is due in part to a temporary overboost function that lasts a maximum of 20 seconds. Over the course of a 201.4-second lap, the Focus spends most of its time with lower midrange power that results in slower acceleration than its peak output ratings suggest....

BTW, It's much easier and cost effective to add a stiffer RSB and change your driving style a bit (trail brake) to get the MS3 to rotate than it is to add a LSD to a FWD transaxle.

If you hurry, it may not be too late to back out of that ST deal.

[RiddlerSpeed]

Originally Posted by Deesiel I'm in a similar situation (cross shopping MS3 and ST) and HEAVILY leaning towards the MS3. The reason I'm still kinda considering the ST is because of the incentives that are available. I also want something that I can AutoX, HPDE, and mountain road 'cruise'. It seems to me that the obvious choice for buyers like us would be the MS3. Why would you pass on a car with a mechanical LSD for a car that rotates using fancy brake wizardry? (That rotation comes from the ST automatically applying the inside rear brake on turns.) It would be ok if it were just a daily driver with an occasional mountain run, but a car you plan to track on a regular basis?? The Focus is a nice car for what it is, but if you want a car for performance driving, get the one that's better suited for it. Here's a reminder of what Car And Driver had to say about the ST's track worthiness after they ran it for their Lightning Lap 2013 article... BTW, It's much easier and cost effective to add a stiffer RSB and change your driving style a bit (trail brake) to get the MS3 to rotate than it is to add a LSD to a FWD transaxle. If you hurry, it may not be too late to back out of that ST deal.

My thoughts exactly. OP isn't even here anymore to debate his decision, so must be a troll.

[breakfstincluded]

pics of daughter

[Jimbo52]

Originally Posted by praecurvo 1st post. I'm looking at the... get ready... Ford Focus ST and the Mazdaspeed 3, both new. Honestly, I've drooled over the MS3 since gen 2 first arrived back in 2009. For whatever reasons, I've ended up in a Mini and a VDub and never committed to a MS3. I still LOVE the aggressive looks and its disruptive nature, but the same issues that were plaguing me then are plaguing me now. This car really pushes! Once you turn in, it simply wants to slide on the front wheels without a crispy connection and surely without rotation. The Focus ST turns with precision and rotates like my old Bimmers. I'd like to know how well the MS3 can handle once the suspension is lightly modded. Springs, shocks, CO's, sways, tires, etc. Can it handle well on the cheap? Will it stick like there's no tomorrow and do it's job as a sports car? Thanks for the feedback.

I was able to test the Focus ST and Speed 3 side by side since the dealer carried both brands. I found a similar result and would give the handling advantage to the ST by a small margin. It seemed better balanced in hard cornering where the Speed 3 wanted to understeer more, but at a very high limit. In Florida there isn't much opportunity to corner, so I went with the clearly greater power of the Speed 3. It's hatch is a little wider so more convenient and my wife preferred the Speed 3 style. Good enough for me!

[shpeedtree]

That nut butter yellow brown is to die for on the st's. Who can actually proudly say they drive ford focus.

[Lancer-AM]

He couldn't handle the forums. His little write up on why he bought the ST wasn't his whole post.
Test drove MS3 and FST back-to-back. Buying a Focus ST.

Too bad though, we are really missing out on some of his classics, like "What is a Double Clutch?"
What is a "double clutch." - MY350Z.COM Forums

or

"I Like Launch Control!"
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...launch-control!

We all missed out when he sold his EPIC Prius!
For Sale - Epic 2010 Prius V $25,790 | PriusChat

OP, thank you for buying an ST.

[Voltron]

donate to see my pu rip thru turns on hwy at over 140mph.


these cars handle.


ps I look for these badass STs on the hwy and none want to play. fucking magazine racers.

[Jimbo52]

Originally Posted by Lancer-AM He couldn't handle the forums. His little write up on why he bought the ST wasn't his whole post. Test drove MS3 and FST back-to-back. Buying a Focus ST. Too bad though, we are really missing out on some of his classics, like "What is a Double Clutch?" What is a "double clutch." - MY350Z.COM Forums or "I Like Launch Control!" VWVortex.com - I like launch control!! We all missed out when he sold his EPIC Prius! For Sale - Epic 2010 Prius V $25,790 | PriusChat OP, thank you for buying an ST.

Did you also notice he owns four Fords, so maybe just a bit biased.

[Nliiitend1]

For an "off-the-shelf" HPDE car, the MS3 > ST purely for the mechanical LSD vs Brake-Diff.

Also, a lot of the "rotational aptitude" of the ST is due to the rear brakes being applied by the car's computer.

What I'm getting at is this: The biggest issue a lot of guys that really push the MS3 on track (Time Attack, Road Race, and even us HPDE weekend warriors) have is with brake heat, and the ST basically has the same brakes, only they're going to be tasked that much more since they're being used to steer the car so much (through their "e-Diff" and "torque-vectoring" activities.

That all said: If you're going to put in a mechanical LSD, disable all that brake trickery, and slap a BBK on it then you might have made the right choice, as I think the ST has better steering than the Gen Pu MS3 and the rear subframe/suspension differences between the cars (the added modularity and improved material quality of the "control blade" components and the relocation of the swaybar mounting points that improves the RSB's motion ratio) make the ST pretty attractive as well.

[Neverlift]

Good riddance.

[Jimbo52]

Originally Posted by Voltron Locos donate to see my pu rip thru turns on hwy at over 140mph. these cars handle. ps I look for these badass STs on the hwy and none want to play. fucking magazine racers.

Pretty sweet!!

[Ziggylittles]

Maybe cuz the ST is so limp dicked that it doesn't have the power to lose traction... Yes I've driven. Modulate the throttle properly into and around turns in the ms3 and you'll be fine. You just can't go WOT through any turn and expect not to slide though..


Tap

[alfamale]

I did the same thing as the OP (drove the ST & MS3 back-to-back). Both were at the same dealer, & I chose the MS3. I was actually trying to NOT buy the MS3 because I don't like the Gen2 grill, & I couldn't find a clean, low miles Gen1 car. I wanted to like the ST more, & I do think it's a better looking car. However, the test drive left me a bit cold. It didn't have the power I was expecting, & I thought the intake noise piped into the cabin was kinda cheesy. Nothing natural about it. Below 3K, dead quiet, & at 3K, regardless of actual throttle position, there was all of a sudden all this noise, which didn't sound that great anyway, that wasn't there before. Got on my nerves during normal driving, & in spirited driving, I didn't notice it at all because I was too busy trying to push the gas pedal through the fucking floor to make the car go as fast as I thought it should. My 89 Taurus SHO with over 200K on the clock had a better seat-of-the-pants feel than the ST.

After that drive, I was almost thinking that I didn't really need another car that bad anyway, but I walked over to the Mazda side to see if the MS3 was everything I remembered from when a friend bought one back in '07. As soon as I pulled out of the dealer's lot with the MS3, my mind was made up. I could have turned around after one block, but, of course, I didn't. I quickly realized two things:

1- For two cars that are so close on paper, the MS3 FELT a shit-load faster, especially down low.

2- I couldn't see the goddamn grill from the driver's seat anyway!

For the way most people actually drive cars like these on the street, the MS3 is a far better choice IMO. Yes, the ST has sharper turn-in, but BFD. The MS3 goes around a corner as fast as you reasonably can on the street, & certainly as fast as I care to with my daughters in the back seat. Every time I drive the car, I have a shit-stupid grin on my face to match the shit-stupid grin on the car; couldn't be happier!

As for track use, one shouldn't be too focused on this sort of crap anyway. The most important thing in racing is the loose nut behind the wheel. If that's not adjusted properly, you're fucked! I did a fair bit of autocross & Club Racing in the 90's (yes, I'm old bitches), & the single biggest mistake people made then was focusing too much on hardware & not enough on driving. Spend your money on good quality driving instruction, & it doesn't matter what car, springs, tires, sway bars, etc you have. You will go faster. I beat a lot of better-equipped drivers with my clapped out, $3500 (in race-ready trim), 85 Golf because I was fortunate enough to receive some excellent driving instruction from a PCA club racer.

Then again, if I were to go back to autocrossing, I'd want the Fiat 500 Abarth I test drove. That thing was so razor-sharp & precise, you could run an course with land mines in place of pylons & not feel the least bit nervous about it. But as a high performance street car, it just felt small & under-powered.