Cheap(ish) Alignment Tool
 

I prefer to do my own alignment as I like to change things often, so I've been looking for a cost effective alignment tool that's decently accurate. Today I stumbled on this new product from a small company called Tenhulzen Automotive. Looks like a great tool to adjust both camber and toe with a good amount of accuracy and the best part it's only $200. I've looked at numerous tools for all kinds of price ranges and this seems to be the all around package. I checked this company's stats on eBay and they've sold quite a few of these with 100% customer satisfaction.

I'll most likely buy this in the next coming months.

What do you guys think?

@btstarcher;

Keep us update ... maybe I will try too

Do we have a HOW TO somewhere to use this product perfectly

Really not new at all. There a number of companies out there with products like this.

Accuracy is questionable for the toe adjustment part of this, since it doesn't reference the center line of the car.

The camber setting is also questionable, unless you're willing to shim and balance the car side to side with something like a water level. Remember, with camber we're talking about 0.01 of a degree changes.

Really, this isn't worth $200. Four jackstands, some fishing line, a 64th ruler from Harbor Freight, and some patience will get you a better alignment.

Just my opinion.

I think I saw those when I was looking for the camber tool....the one with a magnet that sticks to the rotors and a level.

You could just buy some toe plates

Amazon.com: Allstar ALL10119 Aluminum Deluxe Toe Plate - Pair: Automotive

I think the string method coupled with this tool would be the perfect combination. I know you can get good results by taking time and measuring things out but that takes a long time. This tool will get you an accurate alignment quickly. It's ideal for someone who changes things often. Also if you're at the track and want to make an adjustment you can't deny the advantage of something like this.

It really doesn't. Trackside, I can do an accurate toe alignment in under 20 mins per axle (two front wheels or two rear wheels) with string. The majority of that time is spent loosening/adjusting tie rods/eccentrics, not measuring.

But there's a million ways to skin a cat. I've heard of people adjusting front toe by counting turns of a front tie rod, or simply adjusting ONE tie rod at the track. IMO, the time saved isn't worth it.

Not relevant but....Is that an E30? I always wanted one...

Hey everybody. I am Nick Tenhulzen the owner of Tenhulzen Automotive. I saw in my site stats that traffic was being directed from this site so I figured I would see what all the fuss was about.

At first glance this may look like other products out there, but there are two major (along with many minor) things that set them apart from standard toe plates. The first thing is that our patent pending standoff design measures off the wheel itself, NOT the tire like all other toe plates. The second major thing is the integration of a digital camber gauge, which allows us to sell a package that measures both camber and toe for just $200.

Even if you use the jackstand method for toe, if you want to measure camber you will still need a camber gauge. Other than our own hand held camber gauge I am unaware of any other digital camber gauges that are priced less than $200

You are mistaken about 0.01 degree accuracy. Looking at the specs for the 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 for example, Mazda specifies that the front camber should be 0.9, PLUS or MINUS 1 degree. The 0.1 degrees accuracy offered by our digital readout will be more than enough for all but very, VERY high level race cars. Our digital readout can also be calibrated for non-level surfaces, although you obviously will not want to measure while parked sideways on hill in san francisco.

You are correct in that if REAR toe is adjusted with the plates, the result may not be perpendicular to the cars centerline. This is listed in the product description.

We sell toe plates was well, and just like our 2 wheel system ours measure off the wheel itself, not the tire sidewall like all other toe plates. This has obvious accuracy benefits.

Our toe plates also include a degrees conversion chart, meaning you can actually make sense of the specs supplied by Mazda.

The smart phone apps are not as accurate as they claim.

Yes it is an e30, you can check out some more info here: Tenhulzen Automotive - BMW 318is - Tenhulzen Auto

I have one of these:

Specialty Products Company | SPC Alignment | The Automotive Alignment Leaders, along with the optional toe plates...

Welcome to MSF, @TenhulzenAuto. It's nice to have active vendors around the forum so that we can seek to clarify the specifics of products, and their intended uses.

Firstly, let me reiterate- I think you have a good product although I am ambivalent feelings about recommending them to anyone, mostly due to lack of information supplied about their appropriate use in the mazdaspeed 3 application. I cannot speak to any other environment.

I'm not personally attacking your product, I just want to make sure we have a solid proper background for their use with our cars.

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-Whoops, one too many zero's in there. I did mean 0.1 accuracy...

-Your factory camber tolerances are correct, but it's relevance belies your lack of knowledge with this platform.

-Actually we have no way of knowing what your tool is actually capable of without knowing what the guts are (IC's, passive components, etc.). However, it's a good chance that it's not bad, given that there is lots of similar cheap electronic levels that have been tested and shown to be relatively accurate. Like this one. SEARS LEVEL. Used here or a million other places
I've actually cross checked my string camber measurements with analog levels (machinist bubbles and magnetic levels) AND my smart phone's gyrometers and found them to all be in approximately 0.1 degree of agreement. However, the devil is in the details- which is what I think is the most important thing to know about camber measurement.

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-Digital Level, smartphone, plumb bob, IMU 3000 & arduino glued to a board are all examples of sub $200 DIY camber measurement tools with accuracy of <=0.1 -however, the devil is in the details. You may be right about finished product market being >$200- that's your area of expertise.

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Can your camber gauge span the track width of the car to be calibrated to height at which both wheels sit?

-The front track width of the MS3 60.4".
-Placing the gauge on the ground and "self leveling" will assume that two points you choose for the gauge will not deviate less than 0.1" from the two points that two tires rest on in order to maintain 0.1 degree accuracy.
-Here's the equation: =degrees(atan(0.1/60.4))
-I'm not a civil engineer, but I'm pretty sure that even most garage floors aren't that accurately laid. (Open to correction if I'm wrong.)

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Here's the devil in the details about camber measurement that people need to know:

Largely, resting (static) reading of camber by itself means very little, for several reasons:
1) Resting alignment != Turning alignment

-As the car rolls in a turn, it gains camber that you won't see with the static measurement, unless you lowered or sprung your car so much that it can't roll at all. Even comparing before and after static camber measurements when installing something like camber plates is leaving a lot of information out of the equation and won't accurately assess what's going when the car rolls.

2)Camber is very finicky to measure.

-Camber by nature, is relative the lateral centerline of the car. As I said above, even 0.1" of a deviation between the front wheels can lead to 0.1 degree change in camber. Add to that oem rubber bushings, which flex when they move up and down, stiction in the shock assembly which can cause the car to sit unlevel, too high, too low. I believe the mazda wheel runout/bearing tolerance is around +-2mm for the entire wheel, which is 0.11 degrees of camber INACCURACY. Even the subframe can installed from the factory askew enough to not make too large of difference at rest, but differentially impacts camber at or near full bump.

3)Precise, but not accurate measuring devices

-Add in the fact that we have actually pretty good measuring devices accurate and repeatable to 0.1 degree, whether it's Tenhulzen's product, a sears level, plumb bob, etc. and you have a false sense of security that you have data that really means something without further interpretation.

Here's an example of applied camber readings- Subframe shifting with camber reference can lead to more even tire temperatures in an AutoX environment.

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-Yup, but what you're not saying about front adjustment is can be just as important.

If you're not sure to EQUALLY adjust the tie rods on both ends, you are likely to end up with an off center steering wheel and it's going to take extra effort to recenter it until you find the vehicle's center line and adjust each side's toe in relation the centerline.
Also, of unknown effect (since I haven't measured it) unequal extension side to side of the tie rods will lead to unequal bumpsteer side to side. Since the MS3 already suffers problems from overtaxing front wheel grip- it makes sense to try to avoid this potential problem.

See the above work on shifting subframes to correct side to side camber. Could be a similar situation with tie rods.

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=degrees(atan(mm_toe_or_camber/mm_length_of_plane))
From here will do the same thing.

There needs to be a little more understanding as the limitations of ways of measuring alignments and practical implications of measurements. My ambivalence towards Tenhulzen's product comes from the fact that I would recommend it to someone that was looking to do a quick and dirty alignment on a street driven car, if it wasn't for the fact that you could fulfill those requirements with the $200 price tag with a lifetime alignment package from a big box store (i.e. Firestone). Alternatively, if you plan on doing your alignment because you want "custom" or "optimum" settings or you "race"- it's better to understand the related knowledge about what's going on with suspension and not simply what was written on a product description regardless if you choose to completely DIY-it or buy a product.



EDIT:

This guy looks very similar to what you're selling here in combo with the Toe Plates:

http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-AngleCube-Digital-Level-Bevel/dp/B002LL0BIC

Yes camber changes dynamically, but no one does an alignment while their car is negotiating a turn. You say static camber means very little but that is what is used as a reference point for measurement. That is why my products and every alignment shop measures static camber.

No one sets -3.0 degrees static camber (for example) because they want the wheels tilted inward when they are going down a straightway, they set it like that so that when the car is turning the contact patch is making the best contact it can with the road surface. Because camber gain is not adjustable static camber is adjusted.

Obviously if you are using a car for something other than its intended use, like autocrossing a mazda, the factory specs will not be ideal.

As far as the calibration of the digital level, in the instructions it is recommended to use a long piece of metal or similar laid across the floor as the ideal situation. Otherwise using the 2ft product laid across the floor.

For toe alignment first front toe is set. Then if the wheel ends up not being straight, the instructions recommend turning one of the tie rods in the correct direction to center the wheel, counting the number of turns. Then the other side tie rod is turned the same number of turns the opposite direction. This way the toe alignment is kept but the steering wheel position is changed.

I've had several customers make a point to email me and tell my their measurements were dead on with their last alignment. Out of all the products I've sold I've only had one return, and I'm pretty sure it was because the person bought it because they needed an alignment, then returned it when they were done.

My tools are not for everyone, but I'm not aware of any tool in any realm that is.

I can agree with 99% of the above.

Dunno about this bit ;)

As an aside to the above- I don't see any of this explanation on your website or product descriptions. Does the consumer have to spend the money for the product before they understand the limitations in the instructions? Or perhaps this buyer-beware line needs to reside somewhere on the front page?

EDIT:

You've got the perfect place to put some of this information on your "Alignment Explained" page.

On the pages for the toe plates and 2-wheel products I state that they if they are used on the rear axle the measurements won't be perpendicular to the center line of the vehicle. That is a limitation of the product.

Possibly needing to center the steering wheel isn't a limitation, but a potential inconvenience.