Cobb SRI no good without AP too?...

[Speedy9119]

So I just called Cobb's 1-800 number up to order myself a black SRI from them, and they seem very insistent that the SRI by itself will cause problems with the MAF and set off check engine light's...I've herd nothing of this on the reading I have done about this intake or any other high flow intake system for the speed3. Is this true or just marketing BS to try and sell me an AP too? I was considering buying the AP anyways, but I wanted to try out the SRI by itself first.

Thanks.

[bro2]

A little true, a little BS. Some cars throw a code with a SRI, some don't.
Anyways, my car ran fine for a year before I got my AP.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Speedy9119 So I just called Cobb's 1-800 number up to order myself a black SRI from them, and they seem very insistent that the SRI by itself will cause problems with the MAF and set off check engine light's...I've herd nothing of this on the reading I have done about this intake or any other high flow intake system for the speed3. Is this true or just marketing BS to try and sell me an AP too? I was considering buying the AP anyways, but I wanted to try out the SRI by itself first. Thanks.

Cobb most likely doesn't want your car to run leaner than the stock tune calls for.

It may not throw a cel, but your afr's will be off (lean).

[adlpb]

I ran the Cobb SRI for about a month without an AP. It ran fine - no CEL's, but then again I wouldn't know for sure because I couldn't log.

[wankular]

Not sure about genpus but I ran (am running) a Cobb SRI with no tune, no AP for two years with no CEL.

[Speedy9119]

So the car may run leaner than the stock tune? From what I’ve read, doesn’t the car's stock tune run rich anyways? And...Wouldn’t the ECU see the higher airflow rate via the MAF sensor, and adjust accordingly?

Still learning, just trying to figure this out...

Thanks for any help!

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Speedy9119 So the car may run leaner than the stock tune? From what I’ve read, doesn’t the car's stock tune run rich anyways? And...Wouldn’t the ECU see the higher airflow rate via the MAF sensor, and adjust accordingly? Still learning, just trying to figure this out... Thanks for any help!

The car runs pretty rich @ wot @ the very high part of the rev band on the stock tune (in open loop).

The closed loop operation, which is very lean, stays effective up to 5,000 rpms sometimes.

Closed loop is based on your maf calibration, so delaying the open loop transition (as the stock ecu does) keep the ecu from adjusting afr's, and uses the maf calibration.

[Speedy9119]

I see,

So if I understand correctly, you're saying that the car may run too lean in the lower RPM range at WOT (2500rpm-5000ish) but in open loop (5000rpm and above), the ECU would adjust as needed for the higher airflow rate, right?

Is it dangerous to run with just the SRI? Could it potentially cause damage to the engine if the air/fuel mixture was too lean at WOT?

Thanks again.

[rghispanic88]

i had the COBB SRI for a few months with out an AP and no codes.

an AP is a must so might as well get both

[JNR5005]

My car would get scary fuel cut at wot in cold temperatures with just the sri. It was like clockwork when racing in 5th gear at 120 mph the car would hit a stone wall. After I got the AP it never happened again.

[Speedy9119]

Did you just put a stage 1 map on through the AP to fix the fuel cut or did you have to calibrate the MAF sensor to compensate when in closed loop?

Thanks.

[Silver Ecstasy]

My experience was no bueno:
COBB SRI = rage

[Speedy9119]

Shitty deal Silver...It's so weird that some have issues and some are perfectly fine with any SRI, and the fact that you had the K&N SRI before with no problems makes it even more strange...Ugg! Stupid insanely sensitive cars! This just makes me want to leave the damn thing stock...

Thanks

[JNR5005]

Originally Posted by Speedy9119 Did you just put a stage 1 map on through the AP to fix the fuel cut or did you have to calibrate the MAF sensor to compensate when in closed loop? Thanks.

umm I just flashed the map lol

[Sacrilicious]

Originally Posted by Speedy9119 I see, So if I understand correctly, you're saying that the car may run too lean in the lower RPM range at WOT (2500rpm-5000ish) but in open loop (5000rpm and above), the ECU would adjust as needed for the higher airflow rate, right? Is it dangerous to run with just the SRI? Could it potentially cause damage to the engine if the air/fuel mixture was too lean at WOT? Thanks again.

actually, he was saying the opposite. closed loop = feedback loop where the ECU tries to match the commanded AFR with the actual AFR. open loop = who the fuck cares, i'll just read what my MAF sensor thinks is coming in and calculate how much fuel i need to dump to achieve the commanded AFR without double checking if it worked.

as for the safety of running the cobb SRI without an AP: it's really hard to say without monitoring and seeing how the fuel trims settle down. you may get lucky, and your car will be fine with it, or you might get unlucky, and throw a CEL or suffer otherwise. the only surefire way to protect yourself is to get the AP and do a MAF calibration to guarantee that the car is ready for the SRI. the gen2 MS3's ECU is way more finicky about the MAF readings, so that's probably why cobb is telling you to err on the safe side.

[Silver Ecstasy]

Originally Posted by Speedy9119 Shitty deal Silver...It's so weird that some have issues and some are perfectly fine with any SRI, and the fact that you had the K&N SRI before with no problems makes it even more strange...Ugg! Stupid insanely sensitive cars! This just makes me want to leave the damn thing stock... Thanks

That's where i'm at with this car! Been enjoying the fuck out of it bone stock. I have limited my power mods down to exhaust for noise and AP to run on the stock car. An intake is just simply too much for me to worry about with datalogging and it's really all too enticing for me to drive erratically lol.

[Speedy9119]

Thanks for the clarification Sacrilicious.

Do you have an exhaust on your Speed3 now Silver? Any significant power increases? How do the Speed3’s sound with an aftermarket exhaust? I thought the stock one gave off a pretty nice purr. One of the main, actually, the main reason I wanted the SRI was for the sound, but I don’t want to fork out $600 + $175 just for a SRI...That’s pretty lame IMHO, granted there's TONS of shit you can do with the AP, I don’t know or understand close to half of it at the moment. Looks like ill be waiting till next spring till I do anything to the car, although I may decided to just try out the SRI and see if I get lucky, worst case scenario it screws up my WOT in 4th - 6th and I go back to stock till spring.

Thanks.

[Silver Ecstasy]

Originally Posted by Speedy9119 Thanks for the clarification Sacrilicious. Do you have an exhaust on your Speed3 now Silver? Any significant power increases? How do the Speed3’s sound with an aftermarket exhaust? I thought the stock one gave off a pretty nice purr. One of the main, actually, the main reason I wanted the SRI was for the sound, but I don’t want to fork out $600 + $175 just for a SRI...That’s pretty lame IMHO, granted there's TONS of shit you can do with the AP, I don’t know or understand close to half of it at the moment. Looks like ill be waiting till next spring till I do anything to the car, although I may decided to just try out the SRI and see if I get lucky, worst case scenario it screws up my WOT in 4th - 6th and I go back to stock till spring. Thanks.

I currently do NOT have exhaust on my car. The stock exhaust is tasteful but could use some tone from a different muffler only. Unfortunately, there are not very many axle-back options. And running a 3" Catback exhaust on this car is quite useless. The larger exhaust flow does absolutely nothing for the smaller turbo on this car. If anything, you lose power down low, and hardly gain any up top.

An intake on this car makes MASSIVE improvements in power, but it's also the riskier mods with the car because you are ultimately altering it's main source of air/fuel metering/adjustment capabilities. An intake draws in much more power and will absolutely transform the car into a monster! But, you'll eventually need an AP to truly fine-tune that power in a proper fashion, and especially to make sure you haven't skewed air/fuels too far.

It's not as simple as a NA car, you've got quite a few more variables present here. Fueling is very important on a forced-induction car. Having been through a few intakes on this car (and having a decently bolted-on 1st Generation Speed3 before), a tune is extremely important and therefore I wouldn't really recommend modding quite yet until you understand what you're working with.

This is NOT a bolt-on-and-go car. Read the zillions of newb threads about "Why does my car do this?" "Why does my car not want to make power after x,y and z bolt ons??"

Try enjoying the car as-is, learning on the forums, and modding slowly as you enjoy/learn!

FWIW, the Cobb SRI and SURE Aeros were the nicest fitting/built intakes for this car. But, look at the total dollar amount (aka bigger picture). It's $175+$595 and eventually $300+ in Fuel Pump parts to make this thing safe, fast AND reliable.

[Speedy9119]

Will defiantly do some more reading up before I make any decisions, this is my first forced induction car, my previous car was a 2010 Civic Si, very different setup. I'm about a quarter through the tuning for noobs PDF from Abilor.

The fuel pump is another thing that sounds terrifying to me! I’ve never had to touch a fuel pump before, never mind take it apart and replace its organs. My ideal setup would be a stage 1 tune with the AP, with a SRI...if I could get away with that without a beefier fuel pump, I’d be happy.

Thanks!

[Silver Ecstasy]

Originally Posted by Speedy9119 Will defiantly do some more reading up before I make any decisions, this is my first forced induction car, my previous car was a 2010 Civic Si, very different setup. I'm about a quarter through the tuning for noobs PDF from Abilor. The fuel pump is another thing that sounds terrifying to me! I’ve never had to touch a fuel pump before, never mind take it apart and replace its organs. My ideal setup would be a stage 1 tune with the AP, with a SRI...if I could get away with that without a beefier fuel pump, I’d be happy. Thanks!

No prob! I've never had to deal with the fuel pump either, but I did have to deal with monitoring a datalogger of some sort and it really took the fun out of things. I guess you gotta pay to play sometimes.

Good luck!

[Nikon187]

I have upgraded internals and still monitor fuel pressure pretty all the time. I can tell you the AP, SRI and internals complety changed this car

[IRONBAR]

i own a 2011 mazda speed 3 i have a cobb SRI and trbo inlet abo 1200 miles on it and no codes runes just fine, but i would suggest when your income is safe get an AP tune for it as it stands still running no tune and no codes yehaw!

[kngeducate]

OP- I had the Cobb for 2 weeks (300 miles) with no AP during the early spring. In that time, my LTFT increased to about 17. Cobb told me the same thing. Since I have no desire to drop another $600 for the AP, i sent it back (yay SU.com) and got the revised Sure Aeros. I haven't looked back since. I guess it depends on how lucky you are feeling and if you are ready to buy an AP if your trims rise too much.

[morgans22]

i installed my cobb sri about 2 weeks and i have no code and no problems i do plan on getting a AP but as for right no problems

[Speedy9119]

Originally Posted by kngeducate OP- I had the Cobb for 2 weeks (300 miles) with no AP during the early spring. In that time, my LTFT increased to about 17. Cobb told me the same thing. Since I have no desire to drop another $600 for the AP, i sent it back (yay SU.com) and got the revised Sure Aeros. I haven't looked back since. I guess it depends on how lucky you are feeling and if you are ready to buy an AP if your trims rise too much.

So switching to the Aeros solved the problem for you? Interesting...

[kngeducate]

^^Yep......if you're getting an AP, it shouldn't make any difference. Good luck

[Silver Ecstasy]

Originally Posted by Speedy9119 So switching to the Aeros solved the problem for you? Interesting...

Stock MAF housing for Gen 2 is 68mm. COBB SRI MAF housing is 71mm. Too large, you lose air velocity and it's hard for the ECU to compensate. The SURE Aeros is 68mm.

[sheldonross]

I realize this thread is about SRI's (and COBB's specifically) but I'm just going to throw this out there... If you're just look for a simple mod that really changes (read improves) the beast, get a (JBR) RMM. No need to worry about CELs , fuel pressure or anything like that just bolt and win.

/offtopic

Anyways carry on.

[ryanokms3]

i called street unit before i did anything to my car they told me i might not need a tune and do not waste the money on the AP they said some cars throw codes with the sf and some don't they told me just try it .so installed the Cobb Sf and have no issues ,should I sell it and get a sure intake cause it gonna be awhile on the AP ,runs great no cel no fuel cut any suggestions?




Hate my phone it always screws everything I type up

[caesura]

My car threw codes with no tune when I had the Cobb tip and Cobb Sri

[doctavus]

Originally Posted by Silver Ecstasy Stock MAF housing for Gen 2 is 68mm. COBB SRI MAF housing is 71mm. Too large, you lose air velocity and it's hard for the ECU to compensate. The SURE Aeros is 68mm.

WOW!

Did not know this, I would assume they would be the same for such a normal bolt on.

Cool.

[G26]

At Cobb they assume you will get the ap with the Sri, but yes the Cobb sri has a different size maf housing than stock. My sure aeros Sri is for sale. I had it on without a tune and fuel trims were fine, no cel.

[Raider]

Waste $ on ap? Who was the dummie who said that? I do not honk mark@streetunit.com would say that. Worst advice ever.

[khyron65]

I am no expert but if the Cobb Sri induces fuel cut and lean conditions it probably means it flows better then the sure unit. Hence the need to alter the fuel map

[warlord]

Raider. This dude has been all over the internet asking the same question. On another forum he said that Streetunit told him the sf would work fine and that he wouldn't need an ap or a tune. He's complaining that he has no power in second gear with the sf. I told him the sf has a different maf housing diameter that there's a good possibility of a cel down the line and the best thing would be to get an ap and tune correctly for the different maf diameter. He's trying to do the typical brownie shit which is to mod without buying a ap becuase he thinks it's a waste. Bullshit. I give up on this dude. He already bought a sure intake and has the sf up for sale. Haha whatever. Let him fall down by himself and just send him a get well card. He's on his own.

[G26]

Dam wutta fag didn't even donate to get access to the for sale forums, coulda saved mad money buying used parts.

[warlord]

Haha, I even linked him to Edge's AP + Autotech combo deal thread and told him to join MSF for the knowlege and access to the F/S threads so he doesn't make more modding mistakes. He wants to do it his way.

[Raider]

Noted, brownie is a brownie

[CWP_MS3]

For whatever it may be worth to anyone; I've had my cobb SRI on my car for over a month, with no CELs and no fuel/boost cut.

[Kellerspeed3]

K&N SRI and Magna-flow exhaust for over 8 months before AP with no CEL's.