Corksport Lightweight Lug Nut Failure

[ricknm]

As Rob said above, I have had several issues w/ Corksport in the past few months. Including unanswered emails.

I addressed Derrick with a lengthy email two days ago. I didnt want to post anything on here about it, to avoid the bandwagoning, so I did not. It is ironic enough that the lug problem has popped up now too.

Derrick asked to call me, which I dont feel will do much good because I am very much over Corksport at this point.

I won't go into detail w/ the issues Ive had w there products, unless any of you are interested. I will say though, that I can FULLY understand and I would encourage Derrick or anyone else at CS to call these guys first, as luckily for me, my car was not damaged as a result of there products.

Good luck OP, and anyone else who had these problems, Teddy included.

[CorkSport]

Originally Posted by Gringo East Joel, I have issues with this post. Mainly, because I sent you guys a MSG via the Forums Monday night with the video and several pictures. Got a response Tuesday that someone from customer service would contact me. I really don't think you would have called unless I called Corksport first. Also, the conversation was dry and short. I felt like you were trying to educate me about your product that I no longer have anymore or would run. My lesson was learned at the event, and from talking to fellow enthusiasts . And I could also tell you wanted to get off the phone with me, which is cool your a busy person I understand and respect that. I'm glad this resulted in a warning for your customers. Honestly, thats all I wanted. But, one thing is for sure, you lost a customer. Side note: I'm a shift worker, so calling on one of my days working isn't going to happen. -Brian

That's a fair reaction. I would say a few things however just in fairness.

Monday was a holiday, there was nobody to even read your email. After everyone got back from the weekend (except for myself, I was at a lodge with my family until yesterday). They started going through emails. Someone emailed you to let you know that we would have the warranty department get back to you. At that point, the warranty representative decided this was well beyond her expertise so I was called in to a meeting about your issue and your issue only. I then started to study the pictures you sent (which were very helpful by the way) and then I got one of our Speeds on a lift and took a wheel off and started taking measurements. Now, most people on here will tell you that I will not talk about anything I don't have a complete understanding of. I do my research before I do anything else, there is demonstrable proof of that all over this forum. Once I had all the facts, we had another meeting with customer service, warranty and engineering. After that meeting is when I called you.

That being said, if this was a time critical issue, please call us. We get literally hundreds of emails, Facebook messages, contact us emails, etc. every single day. Coming back from a 3 day weekend is even more. At the end of the day, we are all humans just like you and have the same constraints and try to fit more in a day than is usually possible.

Cheers,
Joel

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by ricknm As Rob said above, I have had several issues w/ Corksport in the past few months. Including unanswered emails. I addressed Derrick with a lengthy email two days ago. I didnt want to post anything on here about it, to avoid the bandwagoning, so I did not. It is ironic enough that the lug problem has popped up now too. Derrick asked to call me, which I dont feel will do much good because I am very much over Corksport at this point. I won't go into detail w/ the issues Ive had w there products, unless any of you are interested. I will say though, that I can FULLY understand and I would encourage Derrick or anyone else at CS to call these guys first, as luckily for me, my car was not damaged as a result of there products. Good luck OP, and anyone else who had these problems, Teddy included.

The only reason I didn't go in on CS was because of @rfinkle2; I thought he had a relationship with them.
Truth is every time I have to look at the damage to my car it pissed me off. Those were Robs lugnuts that I used.
Even if they were mine I could care less about a refund or another set that I Def will never use.
Easiest way for me is to never recommend any products to any of the guys that ask what they should buy.

Originally Posted by ricknm As Rob said above, I have had several issues w/ Corksport in the past few months. Including unanswered emails. I addressed Derrick with a lengthy email two days ago. I didnt want to post anything on here about it, to avoid the bandwagoning, so I did not. It is ironic enough that the lug problem has popped up now too. Derrick asked to call me, which I dont feel will do much good because I am very much over Corksport at this point. I won't go into detail w/ the issues Ive had w there products, unless any of you are interested. I will say though, that I can FULLY understand and I would encourage Derrick or anyone else at CS to call these guys first, as luckily for me, my car was not damaged as a result of there products. Good luck OP, and anyone else who had these problems, Teddy included.

The only reason I didn't go in on CS was because of @rfinkle2; I thought he had a relationship with them.
Truth is every time I have to look at the damage to my car it pissed me off. Those were Robs lugnuts that I used.
Even if they were mine I could care less about a refund or another set that I Def will never use.
Easiest way for me is to never recommend any products to any of the guys that ask what they should buy.

[Voltron]

How much are these lugs anyways?

Cause I'm sitting on about 1500 in damage to my rocker panel, sideskirt, fender, and bumper.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by phate That's sad. My 5mm spacers with stock lugs are on a heavier car that was on stickier tires and (no offense) going much faster than what you were. Same course, same day, guess I'm lucky? PS - I don't run hub centric wheels or rings, either.

If you're running the spacers I gave you, they are hub centric, at least to the MS3 hub diameter (I don't know if the hub bore is the same on the MS6). They are NOT wheel centric.

[Voltron]

Lolololololol.

I saw the lurking and still no reply for me huh?

I think my toolbox and car needs a new sticker.

[msantana101]

Subbed for later


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[jm211]

Some of you need to calm the hell down.

If Derrick went off guns blazing and answering questions without full knowledge, you would be pissed. If he researches and delays a response, you would be pissed.

They are responding timely and getting shit together and lets see what they have to say.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by jm211 Some of you need to calm the hell down. If Derrick went off guns blazing and answering questions without full knowledge, you would be pissed. If he researches and delays a response, you would be pissed. They are responding timely and getting shit together and lets see what they have to say.

How calm would you be if you took a turn and your wheel fell off?
Or if a car falls into its sideskirt rotor bumper seconds after you removed your feet?


Run along dude.

[kritz]

Medicate and repeat.

Sent while driving fastest k04 pu

[[R]usty]

^^ lawsuit. At least for me.

[Nliiitend1]

All I have to say (again) is:

Aluminum Lug Nuts, FTL.

[Mr Wilson]

Originally Posted by Mr Wilson Looks somewhat close... From Sept last year.....sorry for the huge pic. CS did take care of me without any fuss. *Picture doesn't work*

[budzinski]

Damn and I was fixing to drop a couple grand to get me ready for stage 2 but think ill go another route..this isn't the first and sure wont be the last of cs product failures..think jbr and cobb will get my business.. Subbed for compensation or how they deal with this matter

[Deldran]

Originally Posted by budzinski Damn and I was fixing to drop a couple grand to get me ready for stage 2 but think ill go another route..this isn't the first and sure wont be the last of cs product failures..think jbr and cobb will get my business.. Subbed for compensation or how they deal with this matter

Lol @ stage 2

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[15driley15]

@ajberhorst;

SURE-ly this isn't going to happen to CorkSport

Hope this all gets figured out soon, I believe that CS is really in this for everyone's best interest, not just for a quick buck.

They'll come through.. hopefully

OP glad you're alright.. Way to come back at it the next day

[budzinski]

Originally Posted by Deldran Lol @ stage 2 Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk 4

Hey buddy dp and tmic.. I'm not a baller or a speed guru.. Want a reliable dd but everyone knows how that goes

[breakfstincluded]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 All I have to say (again) is: Aluminum Lug Nuts, FTL.

Hum Maybe I should have got gorillas instead of mcgards with fancy keys

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Voltron Locos The only reason I didn't go in on CS was because of @rfinkle2; I thought he had a relationship with them. Truth is every time I have to look at the damage to my car it pissed me off. Those were Robs lugnuts that I used. Even if they were mine I could care less about a refund or another set that I Def will never use. Easiest way for me is to never recommend any products to any of the guys that ask what they should buy.

Originally Posted by ricknm As Rob said above, I have had several issues w/ Corksport in the past few months. Including unanswered emails. I addressed Derrick with a lengthy email two days ago. I didnt want to post anything on here about it, to avoid the bandwagoning, so I did not. It is ironic enough that the lug problem has popped up now too. Derrick asked to call me, which I dont feel will do much good because I am very much over Corksport at this point. I won't go into detail w/ the issues Ive had w there products, unless any of you are interested. I will say though, that I can FULLY understand and I would encourage Derrick or anyone else at CS to call these guys first, as luckily for me, my car was not damaged as a result of there products. Good luck OP, and anyone else who had these problems, Teddy included.

I have a relationship in the sense that I appreciate the vendors who support our platform and was asked to write for their blog once.

I appreciate the things they do in addition to making good parts, like sending all of us funny shit in the boxes, drawing goofy pictures etc. That kinda stuff is really cool of them to do, imo.

As for these lug failures, what bugs me most is that a few months ago, I was called and told that they would be sending me a revised set of lugs and to install them and take the 1st version off.

When Teddy asked if anyone had some open ended lugs, I thought to myself, "I have those lugs CS sent me (I have a few sets of lug nuts), and if they are a revised version, they gotta be decent enough to run down a 1/4 mile track".

A few weeks earlier, Rick tells me that his welds snap on his TP, that he contacted Derrick about it and because he was ordering a DP, never got a replacement TP!

These 2 things didn't sound like the Corksport I knew when I first started on this forum.

I hate holding people's feet to the fire, because I make mistakes daily.

[torq]

I had a similar issue happen to me with these lugs, I put them on in the spring, torqued them to 80 ft/lbs, didn't touch them until fall when I went to swap them out and about a quarter of them came apart similar to the OP's when I went to loosen them. Had to take the broken ends off with needle nose.



Was going to raise a ruckus but decided to put it down to experience, out of the blue they sent me a replacement set saying they found issues with the run that I had bought. I'm scared to put them on a car though.

[moonrider_99]

Originally Posted by Gringo East This past weekend CCSCC held a two day autocross event on Sunday and Monday. This is what happened on my fourth run on Sunday. I than decided to order a set of JBR 5mm spacers, which arrived the Friday before the event (08/30/13), and I installed them the night before (08/31/13). Now before everyone starts going "why are you running spacers," why not? Is my reply. JBR markets his 5mm spacers just like that other company that shell not be named (SURELY you know who I'm talking about) as not needing extended studs to run them. I hope someone finds this information useful so it doesn't happen to someone else.

Really? why not? If you did not realize during installation of your spacers that you almost lost half of the thread on your studs required to secure your wheels, we can just hope that natural selection will take care of you and your progeny. Also, fucking with the offset by adding spacers if they are not needed will affect car handling, not a good idea at all.

So you post this long message that probably required a fair amount of time to put together, all this just to inform the community? It could have been done in a much shorter form... Or do you want to pressure CS by making this public and maybe pay for your stupidity? And you bitch when they take a few days to respond after a long weekend? Give me a fucking break.

Spending 100$ on lugnuts = rice
Spacers for the F&F look = rice

You should consider yourself very lucky it did not happen on the highway.

[Easter Bunny]

Some observations.

Op you clearly did not have a safe amount of thread engagement.

To everyone who says the lug nuts loosen over time. This is why you are supposed to retorque after installing wheels. Everytime I rotate my tires I have at least one loose lug nut on stock wheels and nuts after a couple hundred miles.

To the people who said they felt like the threads were not cut cleanly or engaging properly. I would wager that at some point the lugs were over torqued which ruined the threads in the aluminum. Remember in a contest of strength between steel and aluminum steel wins.

Lastly if this had to happen to any vendor I'm glad it was corksport. I have faith that a satisfactory resolution will be reached.

[Cirruslydakota]

Not enough thread coupled with aluminum equals stretching of the material. I see it happen all the time atmy job. Half the time when stripped shit shows up in our aftercooler bases its because a long enough bolt wasn't used when bolting down other items that attach to it.

[julienjj]

Originally Posted by Joel@CorkSport I have talked to the OP and hopefully sorted things out. I'll do my best to answer most of the questions I've seen in the last few minutes here. Based on my measurements: Stock Wheel thickness (at the hub face): 11.4mm Stock Wheel Stud thickness ( from rotor face) 24.0mm Stock Wheel Stud Diameter: 11.8mm Typically, you want a 1 to 1 ratio for the stud diameter to thread engagement. In this case, that would be 11.8mm Based on the math, that leaves you approx 0.8mm of wiggle room on a stock wheel with stock lugnuts. The OP had a wheel approx 1.5mm thicker than the OE giving him approx 11.1mm of thread engagement which is below spec but probably plenty safe (as it has been for the literally hundreds of other customers running our lugnuts). When you add in the 5mm wheel spacer you are now left with only 6.1mm of thread engagement for the lugnuts. The factory wheel studs are a 1.5mm thread pitch so you would then be left with just 4.0666 threads on which to keep your wheels on. With a steel lugnut and a factory wheel, Mazda would not consider that safe and neither would I. However, I am very interested to hear what anyone else thinks as I want to be as fair as possible and certainly want to treat people the way I would wish to be treated so please, let me know your thoughts. Cheers, Joel

From my experience :

Never have any steel screw engage in aluminium without inserts (helicoils). (Nice suggestion for a V2 version CS hey hey hey)

Minimum engagement in aluminium is 1.5x the nominal diameter of the screw.
|
Mazda's stud thread is 12mmx1.5mm

Safe engagement would be 18mm.

Make them with helicoils, no one ever attempted that. Plus at 0.89$ each, they're cheap

[Haltech]

Sometimes, companies need these issues in order to re-group. Ask Cobb, they had their issues back in 2009... But they got it together and have been on fire since. CPe.. they had issues too and continue to struggle due to their operations mindset.

Im in the mindset, its best to just listen to your community and come out swinging harder after a failure... 7 years into the platform, companies can't be making these types of mistakes... And when it comes to testing parts, my door is ALWAYS open to it... Ask Cobb... i spent a lot of time helping them along and there is no shame in it.

These parts need to be tested with the mindset of a complete retard off M247 is gonna use them... There's PLENTY of people on this forum who will be willing to punish your parts... and you should utilize these people because in the end when testing parts, the company with the least amount of issues, rules the land.

Start sending proto's to you sponsored people and interested parties.. You will be surprised the feedback you will receive to not only address the issues (if any), but improvements that may come along with it that will ultimately, set your parts apart from everyone else.

[Bludypoo]

Originally Posted by budzinski Hey buddy dp and tmic.. I'm not a baller or a speed guru.. Want a reliable dd but everyone knows how that goes

He is referring to the fact that you would say "going stage 2". Not that "stage 2" isn't good enough...

whatever the hell "stage 2" is...

[Voltron]

Agreed Kevin.

But the issue here is that it's the v2.
Again, even though I ran spacers on the fronts to fit my slicks, the wheel studs that the lugs went on were independent of the oem ones. I did not use a impact gun putting them on. The skinnies in the rears had no spacers. I made zero hard turns. So every issue that op is catching shit for does not apply here.

These broke coming off.

I want NOTHING from Corksport. I know they ain't paying for any damages to my car, or to the OP.
A simple hey we fucked up, sorry, glad your wheels didn't come flying off at over 120mph and you're not dead works.

[budzinski]

Originally Posted by Bludypoo He is referring to the fact that you would say "going stage 2". Not that "stage 2" isn't good enough... whatever the hell "stage 2" is...

Yeah it's all stages according to cobb ap and e-tunes.. Still a noob..everyone always asked me what stage are you when I had my Rex

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by Haltech Start sending proto's to you sponsored people and interested parties.. You will be surprised the feedback you will receive to not only address the issues (if any), but improvements that may come along with it that will ultimately, set your parts apart from everyone else.

I think that is precisely what CS is doing, the new BPV in beta as a good example.



It's hard to decide when to announce possible problems to the pack of hyenas on MSF. I know I don't want to hurt the credibility of any of our vendors over an isolated incident, so it's hard to identify when something isn't just an installer error, manufacturing defect, etc.

It's a touchy situation, but with everyone's safety in mind, maybe we could have a dedicated *potential* part failure forum. It would help identify patterns, might prevent install errors, and it takes the doubt out of the MSF communities mind of when to quietly reach out the vendor or go guns blazing to the forum. I don't think any honest vendor would disapprove.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by budzinski Yeah it's all stages according to cobb ap and e-tunes.. Still a noob..everyone always asked me what stage are you when I had my Rex

That's because Subaru owners are fags. Ms3 owners are just about inquisitive penis touching.

[Deldran]

Originally Posted by moonrider_99 Really? why not? If you did not realize during installation of your spacers that you almost lost half of the thread on your studs required to secure your wheels, we can just hope that natural selection will take care of you and your progeny. Also, fucking with the offset by adding spacers if they are not needed will affect car handling, not a good idea at all. So you post this long message that probably required a fair amount of time to put together, all this just to inform the community? It could have been done in a much shorter form... Or do you want to pressure CS by making this public and maybe pay for your stupidity? And you bitch when they take a few days to respond after a long weekend? Give me a fucking break. Spending 100$ on lugnuts = rice Spacers for the F&F look = rice You should consider yourself very lucky it did not happen on the highway.

I don't think the OP is trying to say this is completely cork sports fault. I think he realizes it was a perfect storm of bad things that happened. That being said he doesn't deserve all of this. I know if that would have happened to me I doubt i would have went home. Took the fender off beat it back into reasonable shape and got back at it the next day.

I was extremely surprised to see that and it showed great character on his part. All in all his car took it well. Ruined fender a few clips broke on the rocker panel and a slightly chewed up rotor. I believe his purpose was to make everyone aware. Which is good for our community.

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[Stingray69]

I wonder what kind of testing CS does with these things. Testing a nut bolt/stud combo to failure is relatively simple. You simply engage the amount of thread the combo will see in use and torque it until failure. The failure should occur by the bolt/stud breaking not the internal (nut) threads stripping. Here is a little exert from a die design handbook. It describes exactly what the pictures are showing.

"The length of the screw engagement should at least be sufficient to carry the full load necessary to break the screw. If not, thread stripping starts at the first engaged thread and successively shears off subsequent threads. The joint may appear fine at the time of assembly but will fail in service".

I have worked around tool and die and machine shops for years. Steel fasteners in aluminum is never a good combo. You will never see aluminum lug nuts on my car. Aluminum with beer in it good, for lugnuts...........not so much.

[hnda etr]

Looks like I'm swapping out my aluminum lugs (not CS brand) Saturday...

I'm Asian though, rice is in my blood...

[volcomcinematic]

Corksport "SURE" isn't looking too hot.

[kritz]

Wondering if there was any salt corrosion for folks in the northern part of the country?

[shadow102]

I think a lot of you guys are jumping on the "i hate aluminum lugnuts" fad way too fast here. This is not an aluminum lug nut issue, it is a CS lugnut design issue. Many forms of profesional racing use aluminum lug nuts (first place i saw them was on a $100000 late model dirt track car) I also ran the same set of ONE piece forged aluminum lugs off ebay for years on two cars that survived daily driving, auto-x, mountain runs, and a few laps around road atlanta. Typical train of thought as well is lug nuts need all of THREE threads to engage to create a safe situation. If that still doesn't convince you many german manufacturers use aluminum hubs on their cars ( VW R32 is one i can think of off the top of my head).

Let me preface my next comments by saying i have been dealing with CS for years (since 2004) and every time there has been a problem they have ALWAYS made it right, my first order from them had the incorrect rad cap, they made it right, i got one of their first MSP exhausts and even though the warranty was not transferable they fixed the resonator when it cracked. In the end everytime i see something like this from CS i know it will be looked into, fixed, and the involved parties taken care of some how. So to completely write off corksport is going a bit far....this isnt SURE here where they cant be bothered and pretty much say fuck off when things go wrong so i dont ever see them having the same thing happen where they get kicked off the forums.

My main point here though is that stuff like this has been happening WAAYYYY too often lately. Between the multiple catch can problems, original problems with their new 4 piston calipers, now the lugnuts, it makes it really hard for me to get excited about new products coming out especially ones that involve my safety. Whats next the new CS bpv eats a turbo or engine, the new hoodscoop rips off and shatters a windshield, PMM start dropping engines out the bottom? I think CS might want to take a look at its engineering department and its stress testing on some of these things.

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by volcomcinematic Corksport "SURE" isn't looking too hot.

I don't bother groaning people, but this SURE shit just isn't funny, and as far as I can tell isn't even close to appropriate. The 7 product fails and comprehensive writeup outlining their poor response was sufficient for a branding. This is just idiotic dog piling unless you've got something to contribute, and another reason to ask for a "Part Failure" topic.

No one wants to be the douchebag to hurt a vendor (except you and a couple others apparently) supporting our platform, and as witnessed in this thread several people just didn't bother to speak up because of possible friend affiliations, chalked it up to bad luck, etc. and Corksport very well may not have been contacted in some of these instances.

You weren't the first to lob the SURE insult (and not so subtle threat to vendors) into this topic, but I think it's completely fucking dense.

[faeker]

Originally Posted by volcomcinematic Corksport "SURE" isn't looking too hot.

don't shit up a thread trying to make a joke. this shit is somewhat serious and trying to draw comparisons to sure isn't going to help anything or add any relief to those dealing with the issue at hand. the issue at hand sucks big time especially because CS was/is in a position to become the premier ms3 part supplier. let the members here involved in this particular issue go on figuring out how this will be dealt with and read the outcome on the sidelines without adding any bullshit.


this goes for the brownie with his stage 2 bullshit and anyone else who thinks this is a time to joke around and poke fun as well. I have more than a few cs parts on my car, but none of them have gone on without first consulting other members who have had experience with the parts. I won't comment on this issue at hand because I don't use their lugnuts, and most likely never will because I personally wouldn't use aluminum lugs. I've seen enough of them shit the bed in the garage.

to everyone else who is actually affected by this current issue, carry on. This is definitely a make or break problem.


@shadow102; don't forget the issue with the caliper wasn't the caliper itself. it was the installation instructions.

[doctavus]

Hate to waste space here, but I 110% agree with you. Can't the moderator remove such posts? The evidence is great in this thread, best I have seen in a long time. Both sides have a good point, please don't flame me for that.

[Deldran]

Originally Posted by faeker don't shit up a thread trying to make a joke. this shit is somewhat serious and trying to draw comparisons to sure isn't going to help anything or add any relief to those dealing with the issue at hand. the issue at hand sucks big time especially because CS was/is in a position to become the premier ms3 part supplier. let the members here involved in this particular issue go on figuring out how this will be dealt with and read the outcome on the sidelines without adding any bullshit. this goes for the brownie with his stage 2 bullshit and anyone else who thinks this is a time to joke around and poke fun as well. I have more than a few cs parts on my car, but none of them have gone on without first consulting other members who have had experience with the parts. I won't comment on this issue at hand because I don't use their lugnuts, and most likely never will because I personally wouldn't use aluminum lugs. I've seen enough of them shit the bed in the garage. to everyone else who is actually affected by this current issue, carry on. This is definitely a make or break problem. @shadow102; don't forget the issue with the caliper wasn't the caliper itself. it was the installation instructions.

The sure comment was a little dis tasteful but every thread needs comic relief this is MSF

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