Corksport Lightweight Lug Nut Failure

[12blkms3]

Corksport handled the situation poorly, at the end of the day your shit broke and put someones life in danger! You should have bit the bullet and immediately taken responsibility. At least offer to pay for half the damages and you would have continued to have all the support of the MSF community. I've never dealt with you guys but after this I dont plan to either.

[faeker]

I don't find any comedy in threads such as this. There has been expensive damage occurring due to the failures. I guarantee that no one here who is paying out of pocket to fix their vehicles think any of this is funny. This is the shit that can make or break a vendor.

That'll be my last post on this. I apologize for adding to the bullshit, but seeing people make jokes during this time pisses me the fuck off.

Originally Posted by 12blkms3 Corksport handled the situation poorly, at the end of the day your shit broke and put someones life in danger! You should have bit the bullet and immediately taken responsibility. At least offer to pay for half the damages and you would have continued to have all the support of the MSF community. I've never dealt with you guys but after this I dont plan to either.

It hasn't been handled poorly. CS is trying to rectify the issue at hand as we bitch and moan here. Yes, the emails most likely could have been handled earlier and probably should have, but we've now seen that CS is trying to handle the situation. You're adding to the bullshit. sit the fuck out and let the people involved continue on with it.

[Cirruslydakota]

Not picking one side over the other here. Op, im sorry to see your car like that, I know if it were mine it would kill me.

Anyway.

- OP used aluminum lugnuts with spacers and a slightly thicker wheel leaving threads under the recommended minimum specs.

- Corksport apparently didnt plan on owners using aftermarket wheels and spacers and didnt provide a disclaimer until after the problem occured.

Its a perfect storm, things were missed on both sides here and we can all learn from it.

Mazda recommends 65-85 fl-lbs for the factory standard lugnuts. I guarantee the threads were already stretched bad due to so little of the stud threaded into the lug. Had you gone to 85 they definately would have stripped completely out.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by phate - Corksport didnt plan on owners using aftermarket wheels and spacers and didnt provide a disclaimer until after the problem occured.

Proper planning prevents piss poor performance.

On a part such as a wheel stud, the safety factor should be at minimum 2-3 times the required standard, especially in a performance application.

[nindoja]

Originally Posted by Cirruslydakota Not picking one side over the other here. Op, im sorry to see your car like that, I know if it were mine it would kill me. Anyway. - OP used aluminum lugnuts with spacers and a slightly thicker wheel leaving threads under the recommended minimum specs. - Corksport apparently didnt plan on owners using aftermarket wheels and spacers and didnt provide a disclaimer until after the problem occured. Its a perfect storm, things were missed on both sides here and we can all learn from it. Mazda recommends 65-85 fl-lbs for the factory standard lugnuts. I guarantee the threads were already stretched bad due to so little of the stud threaded into the lug. Had you gone to 85 they definately would have stripped completely out.

True, but CS recommends 65ft/lbs in their install instructions. Torquing them to 85 would definitely be against their install procedures.

[AlexInNS]

I think Haltech made a point that gets overlooked to much. Feedback from any community for any company is something that you should use to the fullest. Many of the best companies are the ones who have amazing customer service and deal with everything timely and in a professional manner. This thread has 3 different topics in it, the OP's case specifically, CS's faulty design and the topic of aluminum lugs. If you wanted responses form anyone at CS this wouldn't be the best platform to reach them on. If you want to get money out of them for faulty products, this once again isn't the platform to do that. I'm not sure if CS just recently updated their website stating the following but if it was there from the beginning then a lot of the failures posted here could be the users fault.
"WARNING: DO NOT USE AN IMPACT GUN ON THESE LUGNUTS, DOING SO WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY AND COULD CAUSE FAILURE"
"WARNING: DO NOT USE WHEEL SPACERS OR ANY WHEEL THAT ALLOWS FOR LESS THAN 11mm OF THREAD ENGAGEMENT, DOING SO WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY AND COULD CAUSE FAILURE"

Just from this situation and everyone stating a bad experience from CS at this time, my business won't be going to them for the time being. This post may have no weight behind it because I have almost no posts, but that has no regard to anything in my opinion.

[Cirruslydakota]

I agree with you there (I go to 85 on mine.) but 65 with only 4-5 threads in aluminum is just asking to rip the threads out. Im not in the "Aluminum lugnuts are crap" camp but unless youre getting a good bit of the stud in there then this is what you can expect to happen.

[Cirruslydakota]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo Proper planning prevents piss poor performance. On a part such as a wheel stud, the safety factor should be at minimum 2-3 times the required standard, especially in a performance application.

Agreed, corksport didnt plan for this and therefore was poor planning on their part. However, with the proper length stud with the required amount of thread present this probably wouldnt have been an issue because it would meet or exceed the standard. Looking at the pictures in the original post you can see the length of the stud left with the thicker wheels and spacers on. Its not a lot, and clearly not enough to keep the wheels on.

[doctavus]

Just an FYI but if you read the entire thread you will see that the Warning was issued after they got off the phone with the person AND after CS testing it on a car in the shop.

And I agree with CS doing this as it makes sense in the business sense. But I also feel for the OP and others that have had this happen to them.

Originally Posted by AlexInNS I think Haltech made a point that gets overlooked to much. Feedback from any community for any company is something that you should use to the fullest. Many of the best companies are the ones who have amazing customer service and deal with everything timely and in a professional manner. This thread has 3 different topics in it, the OP's case specifically, CS's faulty design and the topic of aluminum lugs. If you wanted responses form anyone at CS this wouldn't be the best platform to reach them on. If you want to get money out of them for faulty products, this once again isn't the platform to do that. I'm not sure if CS just recently updated their website stating the following but if it was there from the beginning then a lot of the failures posted here could be the users fault. "WARNING: DO NOT USE AN IMPACT GUN ON THESE LUGNUTS, DOING SO WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY AND COULD CAUSE FAILURE" "WARNING: DO NOT USE WHEEL SPACERS OR ANY WHEEL THAT ALLOWS FOR LESS THAN 11mm OF THREAD ENGAGEMENT, DOING SO WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY AND COULD CAUSE FAILURE" Just from this situation and everyone stating a bad experience from CS at this time, my business won't be going to them for the time being. This post may have no weight behind it because I have almost no posts, but that has no regard to anything in my opinion.

[Lex]

The question is why these are breaking off.

It looks like they are made of 3 distinct parts pressed together.

1. The acorn that makes contact with the wheel
2. The hex part that is used to install and remove the lug nuts
3. The threaded insert. This insert holds the two parts together

Here the threaded insert simply shears off where the hex and acorn sections meet and you can see the insert is quite thin. When using a wrench you are twisting and stressing this point.

In the case of the OP, he only engaged the threads into the section where the acorn is so he essentially stressed this junction since his actual stud did not thread into the second section (hex side) of the lug nut. So he simply popped off the heads of these at that same joint where the threaded insert is very thin.

This design is used/advertised to protect the finish of the wheel if the acorn can independently spin (I don't see this advertised so it may not be the case), and to make lugs with different acorn angles, hex pieces with logos/finishes, and different threads in large quantities at a low cost.

This is a similar design to these:

Stay away from Kics Neo Chrome lug nuts they're crap!!

If you are using these lugs, make sure you have enough stud length to engage both into the acorn and hex piece.

[AlexInNS]

Originally Posted by doctavus Just an FYI but if you read the entire thread you will see that the Warning was issued after they got off the phone with the person AND after CS testing it on a car in the shop. And I agree with CS doing this as it makes sense in the business sense. But I also feel for the OP and others that have had this happen to them.

I was on the phone with my girlfriend and didn't refresh the page before making my post, many more were made in the time being. My mistake.

[doctavus]

Oh no, I wasn't trying to bust your balls sir, I don't like drama too much.

Originally Posted by AlexInNS I was on the phone with my girlfriend and didn't refresh the page before making my post, many more were made in the time being. My mistake.

[metalgear386]

Is it just me or are grade 8 bolts supposed to snap like that?!

[Agent_Orange]

Originally Posted by Gringo East Just got off the phone with Joel. He told me about how 3mm spacers on stock studs were the max, about how there is away to measure the width to get how much of the stud needs to enter the lug so it won't break, as well that 5mm spacers + stock studs with steel lugs would have failed as well

I've had JBR's 5mm spacers with OEM studs & OEM lugs on my pu for over 15,000 miles without a single issue, and trust me when I say, I beat the shit out of my wheels.

Not saying the spacers didn't exacerbate the failure, but I did have a chance to closely examine a failed lug that came off Teddy's car, and it appears to me that the design and material used is simply inferior.

Glad you came away safe OP.

[2k4_8]

This is exactly why I went with the h and r track + over just a set of spacers. Even 5mm made it dangerous with steel lugs let alone a 3 piece aluminum. Best of luck op, IMO, I think both parties are at fault....but that doesn't help the damage done to the vehicles involved. I guess I'll sit back and watch how this unfolds and hope they do the right thing, it'd be a shame if this turned into another failure like sure, because no company is perfect and it's all in how the response is handled.

[Cirruslydakota]

I think we should all look at it this way.

He easily could have been taking a hard turn on a two lane public road canyon carving. It sucked that it happened, but at least it was on a closed course with no one else around and no one got hurt.

[Voltwings]

I would like to start my post Defending corksport in 1 respect: Are the people who are sheering the nuts PROPERLY torquing the lugs down? Moving the torque wrench 1/4 of a turn and then ratcheting it back and moving another 1/4 turn is not the proper way to reach a torque load, it needs to be a clean sweeping arc (obviously the wheel is near the ground, so space permitting...). I will not take 100% of the blame off Corksport, as it does seem to be these are failing at a profound rate, however, thats like blaming Mazda that your fully bolted Ms3 blew up on the stock pump... Dont take care of a delicate part and it wont take care of you. Catch my drift?

On to my complaints about corksport:
I had a V1 can with a glued lid that broke, i was upset, but after a few swift emails a welded one was sent to me and all was dandy. However we have a very active Houston group and several of our members have also had problems with corksport parts.
One of our members had a PMM sent to him with improper hardware which damaged his frame rail. After having to make some major modifications to allow his car to run again, he was able to get a stock mount back on and have his car safely running again. Corksport addressed this issue quickly and (i feel) more than took care of him to make things right.

Fast forward to another member who received a part with missing hardware. These are issues we have seen time and time again from corksport recently however: Missing or improper hardware... i am willing to support one of the very few companies that actually support our platform, but Pro active or not Joel, your parts need to work. Things cannot be sent out with no hardware, wrong hardware, or without proper testing.

I am not a manufacturer/engineer, nor do i claim to know anything about it, however, I do feel that lack of testing on Corksports part is what keeps leading to these issues: BPV's that cause compressor surge, lug nuts that are failing (be it user error or not), major components like brakes and mounts going out with the wrong hardware... Its getting really hard to want to support you guys because no matter how well you address failures, the point is they are still all too common... Maybe the Mazda community is just so close knit that everything gets honed in on with a microscope, but at the end of the day, you guys are the current ones in the hotseat with this multitude of failures we've seen over the past few months.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by kritz Wondering if there was any salt corrosion for folks in the northern part of the country?

No more here than in Washington state where they are from.

[Project_dog]

It makes sense to me to put longer studs on if you put spacers on. 1+1=2. Maybe CS should put a warning label on it. I have used CS lug nuts on my MZ6 and torqued them to spec and never had problem. I also didnt put spacers on. Not trying sound like a dick.

[Tokay444]

i can't even read this whole thread. plain and simple, these lugs will never work. the major diameter of the thread almost cuts right through.
from the looks of it, i could take a brand new lug, put it in a vice and tap the conical piece with a mallet, and it would break off.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by Cirruslydakota Agreed, corksport didnt plan for this and therefore was poor planning on their part. However, with the proper length stud with the required amount of thread present this probably wouldnt have been an issue because it would meet or exceed the standard. Looking at the pictures in the original post you can see the length of the stud left with the thicker wheels and spacers on. Its not a lot, and clearly not enough to keep the wheels on.

You're looking at a singular failure. What about @Voltron Locos; who was using a set with full length studs and had them fail? There really isn't an excuse for a failure like that, especially upon the first use.

[Tokay444]

You can't use a helicoil to join two pieces together.
Ib4wedidntmakethese.

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by Bludypoo He is referring to the fact that you would say "going stage 2". Not that "stage 2" isn't good enough... whatever the hell "stage 2" is...

Some days mah local noobs make me so proud. They're growing up so fast!

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny That's because Subaru owners are fags. Ms3 owners are just about inquisitive penis touching.

Shut up faggot, you still owe me a dock session!

[MS3inDC]

Just... wow. That fucking sucks.

As much as fingers could be pointed at CS

OP... why run spacers if you're autocrossing?

I came from the Nissan scene before I bought my Mazda and it was common knowledge to not run spacers if the car was going to see any kind of significant side load. Period. If you wanted flush wheels, you bought wheels with a lower offset, but never used spacers.

Also...

Why did you even buy them? Light weight lugs? Why? How much weight are you actually saving? I just don't see the benefit... at lest not a justifiable benefit...

[Chief_Wiggum]

Originally Posted by daafisch I've been running 5mm spacers with stock studs and gorilla lugs for over a year and half. Over that time I've done 4 track events and probably 20 autocross events. Not a single issue.

I've run at least 5 autocross events with JBR 5mm spacers, stock rims mounted with Yokohama A005 slicks (spacers keep them from rubbing the inside of the fender well), stock lug nuts with no issues. I religiously recheck the torque after each run, but have never noticed a significant problem.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by MS3inDC Why did you even buy them? Light weight lugs? Why? How much weight are you actually saving? I just don't see the benefit... at lest not a justifiable benefit...

Maybe he just thought he would get a nice set of lug nuts to go with/match his new wheels? Sometimes light weight is just a positive upside to a part that you need when purchasing certain style wheels.

If you're going to go that far. Why did CorkSport "produce" and sell said lug nuts? Not trying to bash them with that remark, trying to get you to look at it another way.




Also... wtf is up with our new "smilies"?

[pzr2874]

Balding Won Kenobi is an emoticon now?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Voltron Locos No more here than in Washington state where they are from.

The lugs on your car were used 2x's, both on your car @ the track on back to back weeks in the summer. No water, salt or environmental conditions apply to your specific case.

I think it was Johanna who had an excellent point a few pages back... Mazdaspeed owners trust the engineers to know what material should be used in certain applications.

I'm not going to learn open heart surgery so I can be sure my doctor is giving me a bypass correctly, and I suspect most people aren't going to get an engineering degree to be sure the parts their installing won't destroy their car when modding.

These are lug nuts, not head studs, not cam washers, my point being ... potential customers are the average Joe looking to bolt some wheels to his / her car. To suggest anything but common sense and a general idea of how to install a wheel is needed is only going to discourage people from buying parts.

If there is a part for sale on a Mazdaspeed vendor's site, every potential buyer but a few of the gearheads who know about tensile strength and metals' properties assumes that the part is safe to use.

I hope Corksport comes up strong in the end and all of this becomes a distant memory, because we need good vendors and good people to continue to advance the platform.

[soul.survivor]

One of the issues I see here are that wheel spacers on a racecar is an awful idea. Wheel spacers are for cheap fuckers trying to rig up some ill fitting shit. Second issue is that who thought a 3 piece aluminum lug nut was a good idea? Aluminum is crazy soft, just seems like a bad concept to me. It might have held up with longer studs but keeping the wheels attached to the car is a pretty important task and I wouldn't trust these to be up to it. Corksport seems to be trying to innovate which can be good but you gotta be super smart and excellent at what you do to pull off any meaningful innovation.

[MS3inDC]

@El_Diablo; I know why CS made them... to turn a profit. There would be someone somewhere that would but them. That's what businesses do. But it's up you the consumer to justify the purchase. In this case, outside of aesthetics, as a consumer I can't justify the purchase... but that's me... and I'm black... therefore cheap

[NJSPEED3]

You are not the only one.

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by MS3inDC @El_Diablo; I know why CS made them... to turn a profit. There would be someone somewhere that would but them. That's what businesses do. But it's up you the consumer to justify the purchase. In this case, outside of aesthetics, as a consumer I can't justify the purchase... but that's me... and I'm black... therefore cheap

You don't gotta be black to say, "Fuck $100 lugnuts that don't do shit."

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by soul.survivor One of the issues I see here are that wheel spacers on a racecar is an awful idea. Wheel spacers are for cheap fuckers trying to rig up some ill fitting shit. Second issue is that who thought a 3 piece aluminum lug nut was a good idea? Aluminum is crazy soft, just seems like a bad concept to me. It might have held up with longer studs but keeping the wheels attached to the car is a pretty important task and I wouldn't trust these to be up to it. Corksport seems to be trying to innovate which can be good but you gotta be super smart and excellent at what you do to pull off any meaningful innovation.

While they don't feel adequate, the description makes it sound like Superman himself couldn't shear these things:

"Made from 7075T6 aluminum: Aerospace quality alloy that boasts an impressive ultimate tensile strength of 74,000 – 78,000 psi and minimum yield strength of 63,000 – 69,000 psi for long lasting finish and durability"

If it's good enough for a fighter jet, surmises joe blow tuner, how could they possibly fail on just a car?

I think it's been covered pretty well, but the 3 piece design is probably more the culprit than the material. I'm not disagreeing though, I'll never put aluminum lugs on my vehicle, one piece or not. I don't care if every German auto manufacturer uses them or the Pope has blessed them with holy gestures, they just do not inspire confidence.

[volcomcinematic]

Originally Posted by faeker I don't find any comedy in threads such as this. There has been expensive damage occurring due to the failures. I guarantee that no one here who is paying out of pocket to fix their vehicles think any of this is funny. This is the shit that can make or break a vendor. That'll be my last post on this. I apologize for adding to the bullshit, but seeing people make jokes during this time pisses me the fuck off. It hasn't been handled poorly. CS is trying to rectify the issue at hand as we bitch and moan here. Yes, the emails most likely could have been handled earlier and probably should have, but we've now seen that CS is trying to handle the situation. You're adding to the bullshit. sit the fuck out and let the people involved continue on with it.

NO one was hurt. So calm down buddy, why does a little comic relief piss you off so bad anyways? This has happened to more than one person, so yes this problem should be addressed, seriously. I don't fucking troll, i barely even post (look at my post count) I sit and read, like more people should. I read this entire thread, before i made my smart ass comment. I really do think it could have been a bad batch, or just a poor design as others have said. Rather or not, we joke, we all wan't the same thing in the end, and that's safety. So you of all people should have thicker skin, than that. But you're done commenting on this..so I don't expect a reply.

[Lex]

When installing anything on your car, it is very important to ask the question:

If this fails, what are the immediate and long term consequences?

If the answer puts you or others in danger that is difficult to recover from, think twice about the part(s) being installed, do some research, look into their background and think very long and hard before moving away from OEM parts. The reason for this is simple: The OEMs have to satisfy stringent standards to sell a car. The aftermarket do not. This opens the door for anyone to market anything to the general public.

It's one thing to have a poorly designed intake, leaking exhaust, even blow a motor and another to lose a wheel, lose braking suddenly, have a suspension collapse etc.

Companies should pay the utmost care when designing parts that experience great forces and that have immediate impacts on safety. However the aftermarket, for the most part, is UNREGULATED. That means no one is going to stop a company from selling and you from installing part X on your car. So tread very carefully with these sort of parts no matter who they are from. When in doubt either don't install the part or look for a company that has a reputation in delivering quality and DEMONSTRATES results, and sound engineering practices.

Most of the time (and especially for complex parts), it is best to look at a company that specializes in those parts alone rather than someone that makes/sells a little bit of everything. This is simply because the resources required to design, test, and manufacture a good suspension/brakes/wheels/etc. alone - in house - are great and that puts that good design and products outside of the reach of most companies. This is economics but these tips help the consumer make a better decision.

There's a reason Mazda themselves contracted KW for their own coilovers and H&R buys Bilstein dampeners.

[usgiorgi]

something like lugnuts should be beyond impeccable... I don't want them being just safe at normal driving or within .8mm of thread depth. I want them being safe at twice the "recommended" load. I don't want them failing unless someone was being so stupid as to hammer them onto the studs... No way that they should disintegrate at even 5mm spacers, not to mention just taking them off after hard driving. Since when do you have to baby the lugnuts?!!! They're supposed to be some of the sturdiest things on the car! You should be able to drop them on the ground without them snapping in half. Torque them properly and check them after you do a tire rotation since they settle.. But having to worry if something that simple will come off in one piece is ridiculous!

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by volcomcinematic NO one was hurt. So calm down buddy, why does a little comic relief piss you off so bad anyways?

You do realize the real live people at Corksport probably enjoy sleeping at night, and comparing them to SURE is a serious threat to their livelihood?

If they continually fuck up with multiple product fails and blame installer error, I'll pay the postage on the bag of dicks we'll be sending to the them.

In the mean time, maybe you should go back to just reading and not posting.

[Project_dog]

Its so easy to point the finger at someone elses mistake. It's thier fault because. Im a dumbass for putting spacers on with out putting a longer stud on.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 4

[TRex]

you shouldnt be using dissimilar metal studs and lugs in the first place

dont use aluminum anything unless mated to other aluminum, stainless steel, or the aluminum has steel thread inserts

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by TRex you shouldnt be using dissimilar metal studs and lugs in the first place dont use aluminum anything unless mated to other aluminum, stainless steel, or the aluminum has steel thread inserts

While that is best, it is rarely practiced in the auto industry. Just take a look at simple things like your intake manifold, exhaust manifold, BPV, the stock intercooler neck ect...