Dammit! Cleaned valves, now car won't run.
 

You may have seen my previous threads relating to my valve cleaning process. Yes, it's been a long time from the beginning, but I'm doing it between work and other life shit. I thought I would finish it up this morning and start it up. All I had to do was install the JBR OCC and the intercooler and then button it up.

I was very careful to put each component back where it belongs. I went back over everything before I even connected the battery. Then I got in, pushed the start button and it started. I got out and went to the back of the car to see if it was smoking (little puff at first, then none). It ran a little rough for about a minute, then it start to stutter, so I rushed back to give it some gas. It died before I could. Now, it just cranks and won't run. FUCK!

What would MSF do?

While I was doing the valve cleaning, I installed a JBR EGR Block kit (not the delete) and the mentioned JBR OCC. Could these be contributing to this problem?

MAXIMUM FRUSTRATION!

Try turning car to on a few times to let it prime up. Any codes?

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Nope, no codes. It'll just crank and crank. I don't wanna burn the starter up or run the battery down.

No, cycle the key to on a few times. Let it sit at on for 30 seconds or so then do it again

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Maybe your maf sensor needs a good cleaning?

Cycled to ON, but still no start.

I changed the spark plugs in this process too. I expected it to fire right up.

How do you clean it?

What did you gap those at? Check coil plug harnesses and make sure they're clean and on all the way.

With maf cleaner. Buy it at any auto parts store.

I made sure everything with the plugs was clean and in good shape. I used NGK's Iridium IX LTR7IX-11 and gapped them to .027.

MAF sensor looks clean. Is a visual inspection enough or can it be dirty and you can't tell?

Yes. There's two spots that need to be cleaned on it. I have a feeling youre looking at the temperature sensor.

Temperature sensor? No, the MAF sensor in the intake duct, right by the SRI air filter is what I looked at.

The car was starting and running fine before I did the valve cleaning process. It doesn't seem like the MAF sensor would cause the no-start condition I'm facing now.

No. You can leave your MAF unplugged and start the car. It will start but will die out after a couple seconds


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Can these cars get flooded? I just checked the spark plugs and they seemed pretty dirty for being in there just for this short period of time and not even running. They smelled heavily of gas too. I brushed them off lightly with a paper towel and tried starting again. It caught for a few seconds, then back to just cranking, but not running.

He said it ran then bogged down and died, could easily be a maf.

There's a temp sensor in the maf sensor as well, it reads the temp of incoming air.

I dunno. I have a hard time thinking the MAF sensor is the culprit, but I guess it can't hurt anything to clean it. So, I just get that cleaner and spray it all over the thing in all the little cavities and shit?

Yes so the temp sensor on that is a little piece of metal with what looks to be a little bulb like object at the end, the actual maf sensors are further up the little crevice, you can see them if you look down in the sensor. It might not be the cause but you never know. It's dying and spark plugs smell like gas because it's running extremely rich.

Your next step should be a boost leak test.

All I did was clean the valves and install new plugs, EGR block, and OCC. What makes you think a boost leak test is indicated? Is my expectation that it would fire right up and run like a top unreasonable? I'm not ranting at you, brother, just frustrated as hell. I appreciate your thoughts on my issue here.

This will Sound insulting but it happened to me before. Start checking fuses. I did an evaporator in an avalon, never ever do this if you don't have to. Had battery disconnected, put everything back together, ecu1 fuse blew somehow.

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This.
Turn the ignition on and off about 8 times to let the fuel lines fill.

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Okay, I cleaned the MAF sensor, I checked all the fuses (all are good), and I cycled the ignition to prime several times. Still no start. :banghead:

Is it flooded?


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I've wondered. How can you tell if it is or not?

You can always take the plugs out push the clutch in and floor the accelerator like your doing a compassion check. Whatevers in there won't be for long! Put some rags down

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So I'm guessing that it's turning over? Mine got flooded once. Pull the fuse in the engine bay and crank her. Replace fuse and start her up. Don't remember off hand which one it was


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...31b1cc7df8.jpg

Fuck you photobucket btw


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Just pulled fuse, cranked twice for about 10 seconds each, then replaced fuse and tried to start. Same thing...crank, but no run. :frown:

I want to say there must be a leak somewhere on the manifold that's letting it run too rich.

Or something was left unplugged.

I dunno. I forgot to mention that I used a JBR TIG (thermal intake gasket), so I'm not sure what to think about that suggestion. Arent those TIGs supposed to be good?

Yes those are good, check the vcts box that sits on top of the manifold. There's a little grommet that sits on the bottom post, make sure it's still there.

Unless you're at higher power levels. After time they start to fray. These symptoms will not happen unless if user error. Not being disrespectful btw. I've done shit as well


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Maybe try to start your car with the gas petal all the way down. It won't start, but that helps prime the system. Plus you may be able to throw a code that way to have a direction figuring this out.

All good things to look at. I'm so grateful for you guys' help, but I gotta let go of this for the day. I'll check the grommet and do the pedal thing and get back to this thread soon, hopefully. This forum's the best and you guys have been great.

Did you plug the MAP sensor back in?

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Of course.

Not to get off topic but I had (what I think is) a grommet fall when changing plugs. Small, metal, had no clue if important or where it goes.

I assume the OCC valve is closed? Just an easy check and I and a many others have left it open before.

Also, did you get any b12 or whatever you used in the chambers when you cleaned? I got some in mine, did the plugs out, gas down start to blow the liquid out.

Also, is the plastic arm the VCTS intact, cracked, broken, etc. I would think it would throw a code but maybe not.

Couldn't tell you. The grommet I'm talking about is rubber and sits under the VTCS box which you wouldn't have touched.

Thanks for your suggestions. Yep, OCC is closed. I used denatured alcohol, not B-12, but I didn't get any in the cylinders either way. The VCTS set-up is all intact and in good shape.

Did you try removing the spark plugs and starting it to ensure the cylinders are clear?

No, I haven't done that. You think it'll make a difference?

It'll make more of a difference than having the car sit and wonder what's wrong with it lol.

True. What a PITA.

I'm going to be doing my valve cleaning soon as well. Never done it before so I'm gonna try and get some Nator guys to help, but either way I'm following this thread because my noob ass could easily do something wrong.

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It's a good thing if you can get some knowledgeable people to assist. I did it solo and it's no walk in the park. I installed an EGR block kit and an oil catch can because it's my understanding those things will help keep the valves cleaner. I dread ever doing that job again.

I'm having some similar issues, but took a different route to get there. Figured jumping on here and sharing info might help us both.
I got the zoom zoom boom last month, and finally got everything hooked back up and double and triple checked that I didn't miss anything. So new long block, and while I was at it, turbo, intercooler, and fuel pump. Go to start it up, took it some time, but finally got it to fire, but would only last a couple seconds before dying off each time. Had it going long enough, I got a couple codes. P0123, P0222. Thinking it was something in the area of throttle body. Took it all apart, everything still looked good. Checked again for nothing loose. Still same results, running for a couple seconds and gone.
Searched the forums for a couple hours and picked up the idea to unplug the MAF to see what happens. Started like a dream! Let it idle for a while, as the rpm's dropped to normal idle, it struggled (expected with no MAF). Plugged MAF in and the it died as before. New codes this time, P0102, P0113. Once again, kind of expected with no MAF.

The MAF wasn't touched besides unhooking, and reconnecting, through the whole swap, so I'm saving that witch hunt for a minute. I know there are issues people have had with its wiring. I did check all the fuses and looked good. Tomorrow I'm going to try calling my tuner to see if he knows of anything, thinking it may be something that the ECU has some relearning to do, or if they have seen the issue before.

Best of luck to you! And I'll definitely update if I get any success.

I just did the valve cleaning last week, along with turbo, manifold and injector seals and I'm not gunna lie your thread made me scared to start my car when I finished all that lol.

Hell... I'm getting scared to even do it.

This maybe very anti-DIY of me (and I will probably get flamed), but what do the average reputable mechanic shop charge to do valve cleanings?

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Honestly it's not that bad, OP is just running into a bit of bad luck. However I will say I actually don't recommend using b12 because that actually makes the carbon a little harder to remove because the media blast sticks to it. I didn't use any b12 and I think it took me 2-3 hours to remove manifold, blast valves and reinstall manifold.

So do it without using any B12? Just the Walnut shells only?

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B12 makes the carbon gummy. Walnut works better wheb carbon is just dry.

I left the b12 in overnight, 2 different nights, and it eat the carbon up pretty good

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Correct. Also it doesn't hurt to to scrub the valves with a metal brush. I used one of the brushes I have that are meant for cleaning the barrel of a gun. Works great. Also be sure to be vacuuming the valves while you're spraying.

My very first Nator meet we did someone's valves, but that almost 3 years ago and my first time ever digging really deep under a hood so I don't remember much.

What I do remember was using a shop vac and just taking some plastic tubing and cutting a small slip close to the end of the tub that goes into the intake valves and then suctioning while periodically spraying from different angles.

We did use that liquid (seafoam I think?).

I remember that on one of the valves we didn't put the piston to the top so some liquid went into the engine. Not sure what that would do.

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It'll burn off, create some smoke at start up.

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Sea foam isn't all the great, it's been proven to not do shit on our cars. Using a liquid, some people like and some don't. I prefer not to use it because I don't want to drag a simple valve cleaning out for a couple days just so I can soak the valves. They clean up just fine using dry walnut.

I will definitely only use the Walnut shells then. It may take a little more time, but someone did say if you use the liquid that to do it "properly" takes about 12 hours.

FYI - not sure if it matters, but my car is getting close to 90k miles and I have never cleaned the valves. I've been the only owner.

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Back on topic though, @attomica; were you able to do any trouble shooting today?

For the peace of mind, yes. Pulling the spark plugs just to check them in case they became contaminated with some of the leftovers during the clean would also eliminate a few things from the list. If you had a leak from some disconnected hose or from fitting the OCC incorrectly the car would run for 5-10 seconds every time you try to start it and only then shut down. While because yours doesn't start at all having the spark plugs fucked up can make sense.

Also, disconnect the battery for a minute or so, connect it back, and try to start the car in case the ECU learned something that would prevent the car from starting.

Before any of the above connect your AP or versatuner to the car and see if there are any latent codes in the ECU memory. You can have codes in there even if the check engine light is not on yet.

Funny you should ask. I just got home. I have to confess...I just got tired of the problems and didn't want to wrench on it any more, so, with great hesitation, I took it to a dealer. Sigh. Yeah, I know...bad juju, but I lucked out and it worked for me. Turns out it was just a loose ground wire.

I dunno what to think. Was it gonna start all along and I just didn't crank it long enough? Was it flooded and they just cleared it out? Who knows? I'm skeptical, but that what they claim was the problem and my car runs like a top now. Also confirmed I did everything right. Well, except knock a ground wire loose, I guess. :banghead:

So, semi-expensive lesson? I dunno...make sure ground wires are in place and properly secured.

Anyway, I'm super grateful for all who helped me out. Even if your suggestions didn't work out, it was a good feeling knowing I had SOME support. The TN/KY NATOR pretty much just uses Facebook and I don't do that shit, so I'm out of touch with anyone who could've helped out here.

I'm a fucking idiot. I knew that was a problem and didn't mention it

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Very disappointed i didn't think of that, man I'm sorry you had to take it to the dealer.

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Was it the one by the top of the TMIC?


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Wow, it's amazing how something so small and simple can cause hours of headache.

At least she's running like a champ now.

If you don't mind me asking about how much was that bill?

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Well, it's a lesson we all can learn. Again, thanks for your help.

No, it's more toward the bottom of the TMIC. I'm not sure how to describe it.

Agreed. Still, I don't ever want to fuck with those damn valves again. Total bill was $270 which included the tow, the diagnostic fee and the decorative Mazdaspeed kickplate I ordered to replace one that got screwed up.

I do have to say, the valve cleaning, new spark plugs, and the other stuff I did made a noticable difference. I haven't really gone full boost because I need to change the oil first, but on the little drive home from the dealer I goosed it and was actually suprised by the response. I'll change the oil this weekend, button it all up, and get some road time in to really tell, but I'm excited at the improvement in performance.

Anyone thinking about doing the valve cleaning there is a diy with good directions. It specifies this ground near the hpfp and how it will cause a no start. I should've remembered. Don't let it intimidate you

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6de2b97463.jpg


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Sorry. Couple drinks in. I'm about to do this as well. Good to know


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I'm gonna look up and study the DIY.

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http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...d.php?t=120211

Fuck you photo bucket

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This makes me sad. This is the post I have saved to perform this myself. At least we have the corksport guide for the seals and some drunk guys encounters to go off of on YouTube. Maybe when I flail like a limp dick sea lion (no idea where that came from haha) illl take some pics... not of the sea lion btw


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When you did the spark plugs, did you twist the coils back and forth and make absolutely sure it snapps into contact with the spark plug. You pulled the spark plugs out and they were dirty even being brand new and the car had never ran? Sounds like the car is getting fuel but it's not combusting. Or doing your OCC a massive vacuum leak was made. Check your PCV to OCC, And your valve cover breather to your OCC, and your OCC to your turbo inlet pipe. Also we need to know the process you followed to clean your valves, for all we know you followed incorrect instructions. Any questions glad to help man I feel for you

I'm grateful for your suggestions, but I did all that correctly. Look a couple of my posts back and you'll see more details about discovering the problem was just a loose ground wire.

Shit! I too thought about that ground since that little guy tends to get a lot of people but that shouldn't have been messed with for the jobs you did so I didn't think that could be it.

It's kinda like what is happening to me but I haven't tried to start it. I just have to wait for parts. I broke the small nipple on the turbo inlet pipe while cleaning the egr which wasn't that dirty to being with and probably isn't going to clear my code... *Sigh*

So not to hijack a thread but I'm wondering if when I pulled my valve cover to replace a random ass bolt the PO put in instead of an actual valve cover bolt I might have knocked something loose. Car cranks but won't start. It ran for 130 miles after I out everything back and then wouldn't start for a week and I went back over everything and it fired up for two days and now zilch. I have another post with people helping and my local buddies and my tuner and noone can figure it out.

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link to your thread.

My thought is you have a ground that's working intermittently.

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...d.php?t=209674

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