Deciding, M3 or GTI?

[gearhead750]

[QUOTE=anavrinIV;1338266]you got seriously ripped off on that...guys are getting new 2012s for under $25k out the door[/QUOTE

^^^^^
That


Dry rape no lube holy shit.

[fortressofcomfort]

Double post

[Mchart]

Obviously the E46 M3.

[fortressofcomfort]

Is he in Canada? The world doesn't operate solely on USD thank gawd.

And I can consistently get 31mpg on the highway at a 70mph pace.

Bottom line: do you want the watered down sub compact, or a car that can actually win races, run hot laps, and then ask for more. Vanilla Ice or Freddy Mercury (bad analogy). The two cars point to the same goals,it's just one stopped 2/3rds of the way through finishing school.

And I dunno about your definition of steering feedback but, when I can literally feel the paint stripes on the road, that's plenty of feedback for me. The OP may be confusing feedback for weight.

And you can't turbo the 2.5 because it's already been bored and stroked to within the limits of the block. Ever wonder why you've never seen a blown Corvette Z06? You never will for same reason.

[Monotonous ONE]

staying stock = gti

going modded = mazdaspeed

[Mr645]

Again, thanks for any and all constructive replies. I'll search for motor mounts.

Also, to answer a few that have asked. I use my car for work, driving to and from, and often carrying lighting gear, photography gear etc. Mot people in my line of work drove Explorers, CX-9, etc. I enjoy driving and have stuck with small, sporty cars with enough space for me to get by. My company has a box truck when needed. The Mustang 5.0 would be a great choice, but not enough space. ): We use my wifes car for road trips, vacation, when we go out. So basically we have one nice car and one work car for me. We have a budget of about a grand a month and I do not enjoy driving the Volvo, so the CTS-V or XF is something both the wife and I would drive to go out and such and she would drive it to work.

Anyway, To be completely honest, if all I went by as driving, I prefer the feel of the GTI, but the lack of reliability is a major turn off. The MS 3 has a lot going for it and I really need to give one a good drive.

Again, thanks,
Jon

[anavrinIV]

sell r32>buy used ms3>mod to death>???>profit

[Naaman]

Wait, if space is the concern why not get the CTS-V wagon for yourself? This seems like a clear solution:



I mean, thats just about the best of everything. Why is this not in the running?

[melbaro]

Originally Posted by Naaman Wait, if space is the concern why not get the CTS-V wagon for yourself? This seems like a clear solution: I mean, thats just about the best of everything. Why is this not in the running?

^ = tits!

[Kellerspeed3]

Originally Posted by anavrinIV you got seriously ripped off on that...guys are getting new 2012s for under $25k out the door

Funny didn't hurt when I sat down and drove away lol but I see your point, no use crying over it, it's a done deal. Don't regret it in the least, guess after seeing all the other prices on those other cars thought I was doing good. Live and learn!

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by Mr645 BUT, VW has responded with a $1500 credit toward any new VW because of the number of issues my R32 had. GTI, manual, would get a base car, cloth (Ugly), My R32 has had 6 DSR repairs, 3 Haldex failures, Gas tank failure, Rack and pinion failure, some electrical issues and an airbag failure. That's just the major stuff. Thanks, Jon

Yet, you still want one? wtf do they put on the koolaid?

Sent from my LG-MS690 using Tapatalk

[bigriver]

.

The Fast And The Furious Tokyo Drift (2006) - Trailer - YouTube

The Fast And The Furious Tokyo Drift (2006) - Trailer - YouTube

[bigriver]

OP - get a Miata instead.

[travis9935]

Originally Posted by Kellerspeed3 Funny didn't hurt when I sat down and drove away lol but I see your point, no use crying over it, it's a done deal. Don't regret it in the least, guess after seeing all the other prices on those other cars thought I was doing good. Live and learn!

Sounds like the trade in must have been upside down, borrowing the difference?

[Elusivellama]

Upgraded motor mounts because the stock mounts are soft and rubbery, which causes the engine to jump and bang around in the engine bay if you give it WOT.

To OP, a GTI is going to screw you at some point in its life, if it holds true to VW reliability. You'll walk out to the car, turn the key and shit will just go down. Press the map light and the turn signals go off, driver side window will go down and refuse to come back up, you'll have to fabricate a switch to the wiper fuse to get it to operate the wipers. All of these have happened to my family's VWs in the past (2 Jettas). On top of all that, the car is premium priced, under powered, and looks to have less cargo space than the speed 3. It might also lack some features that the MS3 has, such as blind spot monitoring system, bi-xenon HIDs, etc (didn't look on VWs site to check).

When you test drive a MS3, just keep in mind that pretty much the first thing it NEEDS are better rear motor mounts (JBarone or CPE), which are inexpensive and very easy to install. After that, it's pretty much up to you as long as you follow the advice on this site when it comes to modding.

[Kellerspeed3]

Originally Posted by travis9935 Sounds like the trade in must have been upside down, borrowing the difference?

Nope just wrote them a check and drove away, no trade in. Like I said I'm fortunate enough not to have to worry about the cash part of it but I still feel good about the purchase, windows were tinted already, got paint, dent, body warranty, any dings or scratches they fix till 75,000 miles on all metal for free, I'm good. I'm sure if I would've have searched longer I might have found a better deal but once I drove it I was sold, guess the salesman saw that sucker sign on my forehead after that test drive, along with that evil little grin I still get every time I start the car. No regrets here my friend!

[Kellerspeed3]

Originally Posted by travis9935 Sounds like the trade in must have been upside down, borrowing the difference?

Also I live in San Antonio, TX where we have a huge amount of military, especially what the Army calls bonus babies. These guys come here for rehab or retraining with big ole checks burning holes in their pockets and they are not buying gas savers, they are buying mustangs, challengers, cameros, evos, etc. so the market here for sports cars is a little different than other parts of the country. Great for the dealerships not so much for the consumer.

[gearhead750]

Why.........does this thread keep going?


FML........

[Kellerspeed3]

Originally Posted by gearhead750 Why.........does this thread keep going? FML........

Ok, ok, I'm done! Lmao

[BobbleHead]

if you're gonna lease, dont get the ms3/thread

[Mr645]

Yea, I would gladly grag a CTS-V wagon, add the upgraded brakes, 6 spd manual and call it a day. Now talk my wife into driving a Base Accord and all would be good

I had made my decision on the Mazda 3 2.5 Hatch, and then could not find one without leather, nav, power everything, so was interested in the Speed 3. I had written off VW until they sent me a $1500 voucher toward any new VW. Now I pretty much need to decide which dealer to get a Speed 3 from.

How is Mazda when it comes to warranty on tuned cars?

VW, at least Gunther is pretty easy as long as the mods did not cause the problem, same with Chevy, my brother has had warranty work done on him Trailblazer SS, that runs mid 13's on daily street tires.

Anyone familiar with Delray Mazda in Florida?

[Tokay444]

faggot

[fortressofcomfort]

My 2004 Passat was very reliable but I attribute that to it actually being made in Germany w German hands. Most of the problem models (Jetta/Golf based) are made in Mexico.

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by CaptObvious75 MS3 > GTI Why? because racecar... this is why I bought a MS3 over a GTI/GLI: - Real LSD (no electronic brake magic band-aid solutions) - More stock power and torque - Most likely better reliability stock vs stock - Cheaper than the GTI fully optioned out (In Canada anyways) - Can turn off both stability AND traction control - This Genpu is more refined than the last gen The only areas I see the GTI win in vs the MS3 is: - Better steering wheel (it's beyond sex) - Better dynaudio sound system vs the Bose system - Might be a bit better on fuel - Slightly better road trip ride - Makes stated power at the wheels vs Mazda's power at the crank This is as unbiased an answer you will get on here. The Mazdaspeed3 was the far better vehicle for ME... there is a reason why this car is highly regarded and win's almost all comparison tests. I find the GTI is more of a DD and the MS3 is more of a weekend track car IMHO

That is why the first gen is called genwon and yours is a genPU.. Just sayin. MS3 is not a track car umm we have that thing called FWD. Indeed fun at the track but not a track car.

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort My 2004 Passat was very reliable but I attribute that to it actually being made in Germany w German hands. Most of the problem models (Jetta/Golf based) are made in Mexico.

Golfs are still made in Germany.. You are correct about jetta's in Mexico.. Now the Passat is made in Tennessee but still made 2012 motor trend car of the year.

[Tokay444]

Which doesn't stand for much.
Motortrend should have to drive a car for the entire length of a lease before they can give it any awards.
But then the ceremony would be 3 years late for ever model.

[travis9935]

Kind of like the "new" malibu got awards for its rework in 09? The interior sucks, and their plaqued with problems!

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort My 2004 Passat was very reliable but I attribute that to it actually being made in Germany w German hands. Most of the problem models (Jetta/Golf based) are made in Mexico.

But all of the GTI's are still made in Germany, and they fall apart too. It seems to be more design related than assembly related.

[CWP_MS3]

I've been working for VW for the past 5 years.... I personally like the GTI, but as you can see, that's not a GTI in my AVI. And it was an easy choice.

In all honesty, the GTI's are terribly over-priced. 5 years ago, it was a good price for the car. 25k would get you a GTI fully loaded. Now it gets you a base GTI, and 33k for fully loaded. Simply put, a GTI is not a thirty-three thousand dollar car.

[GoBackToSleep]

Those problems you listed with your R32 are unacceptable. Sure, they want to credit you $1500 but I wouldn't take it and get an MS3 instead. I've had my '08 MS3 for about two years and it's NEVER left me stranded, despite some necessary warranty work like the smoking turbo (which didn't affect the drivability of my car) and a PCV valve replacement. For the price, this car is the BEST value in its class and it's a dependable daily-driver in addition to possessing excellent performance. As for fuel economy, the EPA numbers don't mean shit. I've gotten as high as 34.5 MPG highway (and I'm usually always above 30 on mostly highway driving). The only hit in that area, obviously, would involve mostly city driving where I'm in the mid-twenties.

There should be no question about it. I would NEVER own a GTI. VW's problems are completely unacceptable.

[Juliandlr1004]

The Speed3 is an all around better car! Look on Youtube! All the reviews will tell you the MS3 is the BEST FWD CAR AROUND!!!
FWD KING as they say

Originally Posted by Mr645 My 08 R32 lease is about up and was pretty set on a Mazda 3 or Speed 3. BUT, VW has responded with a $1500 credit toward any new VW because of the number of issues my R32 had. GTI, manual, would get a base car, cloth (Ugly), lease would run $269 I do like the Mazda 3, a 2.5 manual hatch is $225 mo, but no ones seems to have any except loaded, leather, Nav etc, and bring the cost equal to the Speed 3. and a Speed 3 is $305 mo. Also looked at the WRX, but no one has them in stock, so pretty much gave up on it since there are none to test drive. I test drove the GTI, and to be honest, I really like the way it drives. Great road feel, nice driving car. The Speed 3 has more features, a little more powerful, but the steering seems to lack any feedback, and the car overall seemed a little unrefined. I am kind of assuming that the Mazda will be far more reliable and trouble free. My R32 has had 6 DSR repairs, 3 Haldex failures, Gas tank failure, Rack and pinion failure, some electrical issues and an airbag failure. That's just the major stuff. VW has stepped up with 8 lease payments over the 4 years I have owned the R and now $1500 toward a new VW. Anyway, I'm not looking for a screaming match, I'm 40 yrs old and want a fun to drive, reasonably prices car, with some room. Manual transmission and I may do a track day or two and probably the only mods I would ever do would be brake pads and tires. Just looking for constructive comments regarding positives and nagatives of the Speed3. Thanks, Jon

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by Mr645 Yea, I would gladly grag a CTS-V wagon, add the upgraded brakes, 6 spd manual and call it a day. Now talk my wife into driving a Base Accord and all would be good I had made my decision on the Mazda 3 2.5 Hatch, and then could not find one without leather, nav, power everything, so was interested in the Speed 3. I had written off VW until they sent me a $1500 voucher toward any new VW. Now I pretty much need to decide which dealer to get a Speed 3 from. How is Mazda when it comes to warranty on tuned cars? VW, at least Gunther is pretty easy as long as the mods did not cause the problem, same with Chevy, my brother has had warranty work done on him Trailblazer SS, that runs mid 13's on daily street tires. Anyone familiar with Delray Mazda in Florida?

I just saw this and realized you're local. I've had my car for over a year (10K miles) and I haven't had the need to take it in to the dealer. But from what I hear, Delray Mazda seems to be a bit more mod friendly than Lou Bachrodt - granted the mods are not directly related to the issue. Just keep your stock parts though, there's plenty of local MS3 owners like me who can help you install/stock out any parts.

If you want to see what an MS3 can do with a few performance mods, let me know. I'll put you in the car in a 3rd gear pull and see if you still think that this car is under powered. I wish I could tell you the outcome of my car vs modded GTI's, but honestly they're all a bunch of cock fags who refuse to run next to me. I only ran next to one with an intake+tune, in which I the difference has to be measured in bus lengths.

So my personal suggestion is to go with the MS3, but don't lease it if you plan on modding it. If you do go with this car, your first mod should be the donation mod which will give you VIP access including the For Sale section to find quality parts for low prices.

[Mr645]

thanks all. I pretty much made up my mind on the Speed 3. Grey. Drive it a bit and decide if there is anything I really don't like about the car that can be corrected. I'm not a power junkie, but I may hit up a track day (Road Course) or Solo II event from time to time. That's where stock engined Miata's wip up on 500 hp Mustangs.



So Delray Mazda is a good place to deal with? What about Gunther? They have been very good with my R32

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by Mr645 thanks all. I pretty much made up my mind on the Speed 3. Grey. Drive it a bit and decide if there is anything I really don't like about the car that can be corrected. I'm not a power junkie, but I may hit up a track day (Road Course) or Solo II event from time to time. That's where stock engined Miata's wip up on 500 hp Mustangs. So Delray Mazda is a good place to deal with? What about Gunther? They have been very good with my R32

Gunther VW and Gunther Mazda are two completely different dealerships, although they're owned by the same corporation. I got a good deal at Lou Bachrodt, so I suggest you check it out. I paid 26 out the door for a 2011 (a year ago) with tech pkg, tinted windows and my current wheels.

[melbaro]

Originally Posted by adlpb I just saw this and realized you're local. I've had my car for over a year (10K miles) and I haven't had the need to take it in to the dealer. But from what I hear, Delray Mazda seems to be a bit more mod friendly than Lou Bachrodt - granted the mods are not directly related to the issue. Just keep your stock parts though, there's plenty of local MS3 owners like me who can help you install/stock out any parts. If you want to see what an MS3 can do with a few performance mods, let me know. I'll put you in the car in a 3rd gear pull and see if you still think that this car is under powered. I wish I could tell you the outcome of my car vs modded GTI's, but honestly they're all a bunch of cock fags who refuse to run next to me. I only ran next to one with an intake+tune, in which I the difference has to be measured in bus lengths. So my personal suggestion is to go with the MS3, but don't lease it if you plan on modding it. If you do go with this car, your first mod should be the donation mod which will give you VIP access including the For Sale section to find quality parts for low prices.

Well said, and big ups for supporting a potential owner. However, the best parts of your post have been bolded by me...

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by adlpb If you want to see what an MS3 can do with a few performance mods, let me know. I'll put you in the car in a 3rd gear pull and see if you still think that this car is under powered. I wish I could tell you the outcome of my car vs modded GTI's, but honestly they're all a bunch of cock fags who refuse to run next to me. I only ran next to one with an intake+tune, in which I the difference has to be measured in bus lengths.

I have a few co-workers with some fast GTI's. Little mods, and high boost (24psi), cranking 270+ to the wheels. They can be quick, make no mistake. The simplicity of being able to increase the boost with little to no modifications is nice. You can flash a stock ECM giving it more power, safely, without having to bolt on anything or fuck with the fuel pump.

It has benefits over the speeds, but at the same time, you have to spend money in order to even equal a stock speed's performance.

Honestly though, its not the 2.0T that you need to concern yourself with. Its the older mk4 VR6 GTI's. When modded, those things can be nasty. I've seen/heard of many people slapping turbos on them and making 4-500 whp no problem.

[Kellerspeed3]

I test drove the 2010 GTI, wasn't impressed, watched the reviews in YouTube, a bunch of old guys driving a boy racer car, our mazdaspeeds, and complaining its to fast, fuckin wahhh! It's a fast car, designed to be fast, built to be fast, if you want other stuff besides speed go with the GTI, like we say here all the time, if you don't know....

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 I have a few co-workers with some fast GTI's. Little mods, and high boost (24psi), cranking 270+ to the wheels. They can be quick, make no mistake. The simplicity of being able to increase the boost with little to no modifications is nice. You can flash a stock ECM giving it more power, safely, without having to bolt on anything or fuck with the fuel pump. It has benefits over the speeds, but at the same time, you have to spend money in order to even equal a stock speed's performance.

Give me $1500 in mods, E85 and a good tune and I'll show you a speed 3 - with a lower price than a GTI - safely putting 310hp to the wheels...with 19psi

[Voltron]

Meh...I'll never buy another volkswagon again. Had a 01 GTi VR6, put a bunch of money into it, shit broke down more than anything I've ever owned. The whole world knows they suck, you know it sucks.
I also test drove the base mazda3 wagon, shits gay and lacking one gear. Got in the speed, signed the papers and never looked back. You'll be glad you did when you blow by a GTi, whether its on the highway or on the flatbed.

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by adlpb Give me $1500 in mods, E85 and a good tune and I'll show you a speed 3 - with a lower price than a GTI - safely putting 310hp to the wheels...with 19psi

I bet you can. I'm not stating one way or the other, in favor of the GTI. I'm just stating that there are some out there, that are fast as hell, just like there are of any other manufactured vehicle.

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 I bet you can. I'm not stating one way or the other, in favor of the GTI. I'm just stating that there are some out there, that are fast as hell, just like there are of any other manufactured vehicle.

I'm sure there are. Unfortunately, they are overshadowed by the other 99% of GTI owners who are a bunch of fags/dubsters/hipsters/ricers or a combination of all 4.