Down Shift or Neutral

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by Noodlesincup To be honest I have no idea what her name is, all I know is shes hot as hell

[rigor]

their is a shifter adjustment, some one post that shit up

it might help

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by rigor their is a shifter adjustment, some one post that shit up it might help

Jamiesplanet.com

[jimmy]

I imagine OP's first day driving stick.

Dogma clip - YouTube

Dogma clip - YouTube

[MS3inDC]

In



Before clutch replacement

[amoosenamedhank]

Why the piss would you down shifting coming up to a complete stop?! Oh BECAUSE RACECAR?!?! Fuck that... brake pads are easier to change than a clutch. Let the car engine brake then push in the clutch and use the brakes. Don't be a jackass and heel-toe downshift to a red light.

[dastpe]

Originally Posted by MS3inDC If you need to ask, then don't even worry about downshifting until you need to accelerate... And heel-toe suggestions for street driving is laughable... My $.02... Drive like a normal person... take a race driving course... practice heel-toe downshifting on the track, when it is actually necessary...

how is heal-toe driving not necesarry on the street? there are plenty of back roads where i am from with twisties that you have to downshift for. i know our cars have torque, but going from 55mph-30mph for a tight 90, i like to use this technique. you sound like all the guys who ride who dont think you need to downshift on a motorcycle.

i do agree with taking a race course. i recommend skip barber.

[wankular]

ha the only time I'll downshift 6th all the way down to 2nd is on a long off ramp if I'm trying to piss off the guy behind me.

[MS3inDC]

Originally Posted by dastpe how is heal-toe driving not necesarry on the street? there are plenty of back roads where i am from with twisties that you have to downshift for. i know our cars have torque, but going from 55mph-30mph for a tight 90, i like to use this technique. you sound like all the guys who ride who dont think you need to downshift on a motorcycle. i do agree with taking a race course. i recommend skip barber.

I'm not saying that you can't/shouldn't... OP shouldn't

I get downshifting on back roads, because racecar...

but thats back roads. If I'm approaching a light and need to turn, heel-toe is the last thing I'm thinking about... I know how to heel-toe, but I also know that it's unnecesarry to do when driving around town...

[Omophorus]

Originally Posted by Mizzle To a complete stop: Stay in high gear until you hit 1,000 rpm and push in the clutch. Downshifting is pointless and just uses up your clutch.

This, for street driving. If you're in 5th, you can brake in gear down to ~30 MPH, then just pop into neutral and brake the rest of the way with the middle pedal only. Brake pads are a lot cheaper than clutches, but leaving it in gear for the initial braking period will preserve pad life slightly (as you don't have to brake as hard) or permit you to brake faster (if you're an idiot or have to panic stop).

If you have to make a sudden maneuver requiring being in gear, being in neutral with the clutch out will make rev-matching to a lower gear significantly easier, and you won't go anywhere wooding it in 5th at 1k RPM anyway.

If that sudden maneuver is required more than a handful of times in the entire life of the car, you are not doing a good enough job of driving defensively and reading traffic conditions around you. Shame on you.

==

As others have said, learning to rev-match your downshifts will help you drive more smoothly in general. The best way to practice is to hold a constant speed on a straight, level road and repeatedly upshift and downshift between 2 gears (3rd and 4th ideally) until it's comfortable. Then increase or decrease your speed so that you have to do the same exercise at a higher or lower engine RPM. Then try with other gears, and ultimately 2+ gear jumps.

As for heel & toe'ing on the road... it will rarely ever be necessary. The pedal positioning in the MS3 makes it very comfortable to heel & toe when you're standing on the brakes the way you would hot lapping a track or auto-x'ing. It makes it uncomfortable or inconvenient with less aggressive braking, like the sort done in daily driving.

If you're bombing a mountain road hard enough that it becomes comfortable, fantastic. Otherwise just pop down a gear before you brake, and if you end up dropping revs through a turn, there's enough midrange meat in the 2.3DISI that it's not the end of the world.

Then again, if you're bombing down a mountain road hard enough that it's comfortable and you're using more than 2nd and 3rd gear (since you'll have to learn to double-clutch + heel & toe to smoothly pop into first on the fly, and that's probably not a lesson for today...) you're going too fast and I'll despise you when your actions indirectly raise the cost of my insurance.

[Mistersix]

Originally Posted by MS3inDC If you need to ask, then don't even worry about downshifting until you need to accelerate... And heel-toe suggestions for street driving is laughable... My $.02... Drive like a normal person... take a race driving course... practice heel-toe downshifting on the track, when it is actually necessary...

but this is why driving stick is so much fun. utilizing all the techniques available. not using heel toe on the street is laughable. the best way to learn anything is repetition. especially if it involves 4 way independence. i've done it so much for so many years its second nature to me.

trying to learn it on a track during an hpde is laughable. theres so much for the average enthusiast to take in while on track that trying to execute a technique they're unfamiliar with is probably a bad idea.

i agree with you in a sense that you should avoid attempting heel-toe in traffic around other cars if your still learning. thats why i would suggest just getting a feel for rev matching and not worry about the brakes at first. like when taking a long exit ramp at highway speeds. this gives you an opportunity to rev match most of the gears as you come to a stop. rev match 5th, apply brakes to scrub speed, rev match 4th, apply brakes, rev match 3rd, etc... before you know it you'll be ready to handle all 4 at the same time. clutching,braking, revving and shifting.

[GoBackToSleep]

I use neutral most of the time while coming to a complete stop. The only time I downshift is when I'm going downhill so I don't have to depend on the brakes too heavily and I believe that could also conserve fuel. Since most of my driving is on flat surfaces, neutral is fine with me.

[Mizzle]

I finally got my car inspected today.

My front brakes have 6/32nds of material left on them.

Wait.
My original pads have 6/32nds after 53,400 miles.

[SpeedEMS]

Usually when you blip the throttle its approx. 1000rpm per gear. What I mean is if you are downshifting from 4 to 3. If the tach is at 2000rpm and want to downshift, blip to 3000rpm, then downshift. 5 to 3, you need to blip 2000rpm more than where the tach is before downshifting. Hope that made sense!

[MS3inDC]

Originally Posted by Mistersix but this is why driving stick is so much fun. utilizing all the techniques available. not using heel toe on the street is laughable. the best way to learn anything is repetition. especially if it involves 4 way independence. i've done it so much for so many years its second nature to me. trying to learn it on a track during an hpde is laughable. theres so much for the average enthusiast to take in while on track that trying to execute a technique they're unfamiliar with is probably a bad idea. i agree with you in a sense that you should avoid attempting heel-toe in traffic around other cars if your still learning. thats why i would suggest just getting a feel for rev matching and not worry about the brakes at first. like when taking a long exit ramp at highway speeds. this gives you an opportunity to rev match most of the gears as you come to a stop. rev match 5th, apply brakes to scrub speed, rev match 4th, apply brakes, rev match 3rd, etc... before you know it you'll be ready to handle all 4 at the same time. clutching,braking, revving and shifting.

Read... OP asked about when coming to a stop...

Heel-toe IS laughable for that. Learning it for when you need it is one thing, blipping the throttle to downshift is another, but heel-toe?...

Also...

... race driving course teaches the proper technique to practice...

But if you're all about heel-toe downshifting to a red light, be my guest.


here you go OP
Just watch this and hit the street! and you'll be all set!

[FLHXterp]

Originally Posted by MS3inDC here you go OP Just watch this and hit the street! and you'll be all set!

Yup, let me just go do that real quick.

Damn.

[Mchart]

Indeed, no reason to downshift while coming to a stop while driving on a daily basis. More wear on the clutch then need be. (Even if you are rev-matching perfectly)

[Deww]

don't pay attention to the rpms you need to learn to listen to what the engine sounds like and that will tell you where you should be. Speed/RPMS don't matter because every car is going to be different shifting points and down shifting points. And don't worry about the jerking. Sooner rather than later you will just get the hang of it. Just remember when down shifting you almost alway's need to tap that gas a little or a lot. But don't be staring at your RPM or your Speed. Roll your windows down or turn off the radio and just listen the car will tell you what you need to know you just need to hear it.

[Deww]

Originally Posted by MS3inDC here you go OP Just watch this and hit the street! and you'll be all set!

That guys foot work is awesome, can't wait till I can heal toe that good. I'm just starting to learn how to do it. I find it uncomfortable because the gas pedal is way deeper so unless I'm really hard on the brakes it hurts my knee/shin this guys pedals are flush which would be so much nicer!

[speeed]

Originally Posted by Noodlesincup Vouch, Now I have no problems going from 6-5-4-3 but 3-2 is a pain is there a certain rpm I should blimp too? On a side note just placed an order for JBR ChromeMolly RMM ^^ my modding begins

If 3-2 is a pain, just try 3-1, you'll stop faster....lol

[Mistersix]

Originally Posted by MS3inDC Read... OP asked about when coming to a stop...

maybe you should read the OP...
"Every time i downshift my car jerks even when im at ~1500 rpms any help is appreciated
Thanks guys "

Hence, the discussion about rev matching. He doesn't want his car to jerk when downshifting to a stop. So rev match. Or you could just throw it in neutral and coast to a stop from 40 or whatever miles an hour. may as well drive an automatic if one doesn't wanna shift.

[MS3inDC]

Originally Posted by Mistersix maybe you should read the OP... "Every time i downshift my car jerks even when im at ~1500 rpms any help is appreciated Thanks guys " Hence, the discussion about rev matching. He doesn't want his car to jerk when downshifting to a stop. So rev match. Or you could just throw it in neutral and coast to a stop from 40 or whatever miles an hour. may as well drive an automatic if one doesn't wanna shift.

I hope you're around for OPs install when he replaces his clutch... or fucks it up and rear-ends someone...


take a class. Learn to do it right.

[Mistersix]

Originally Posted by MS3inDC If you need to ask, then don't even worry about downshifting until you need to accelerate... And heel-toe suggestions for street driving is laughable... My $.02... Drive like a normal person... take a race driving course... practice heel-toe downshifting on the track, when it is actually necessary...

Originally Posted by MS3inDC In Before clutch replacement

Originally Posted by MS3inDC Read... OP asked about when coming to a stop... Heel-toe IS laughable for that. Learning it for when you need it is one thing, blipping the throttle to downshift is another, but heel-toe?... Also... ... race driving course teaches the proper technique to practice... But if you're all about heel-toe downshifting to a red light, be my guest. here you go OP Just watch this and hit the street! and you'll be all set!

Originally Posted by MS3inDC I hope you're around for OPs install when he replaces his clutch... or fucks it up and rear-ends someone... take a class. Learn to do it right.

So....what is your advise to the OP?

First you say "if you need to ask then dont downshift until..." then you say "drive like a normal person". whatever that means. I'm not seeing how any of your post were helpful to the OP.

Your first post pretty much criticized him for asking the question. You then went on to criticize others who actually were offering they're opinions. Saying heel-toe is laughable, so you post a video of it. (which was freakin awesome btw) The rest were vague comments on how the clutch is gonna wear out. you see how that is conflicting.

Look, i respect the fact that your a long standing member of this forum, and typically your post are helpful. The OP is obviously new to manual shifting to ask such a question. So he needs a straight forward answer. I'd imagine the dude is more confused now than before he posted up.

To the OP: The one legit piece of advice is to seek out some track time if possible. Take an hpde or just do some autox events. You'll learn so much about your self and your car. Talk to other drivers, seek out advice from them. And you'll have so much fun your face will hurt from smiling so much. And its worth the money and travel time. Forgive me for assuming you've never been on a track but given the question at hand....

[silvapain]

Like others have said, you're not going to put in enough track time to learn how to heel-toe effectively, and you're going to be focusing on brake points and other things while on the track.

Find some country roads and practice heel-toe there. Then when you get confident at it, try it in the city. You want it to be second nature by the time you get to the track.

Some people are drivers. Some are wrenches. You won't know which you are until you try.


Tapadatass

[MS3inDC]

Originally Posted by Mistersix So....what is your advise to the OP? First you say "if you need to ask then dont downshift until..." then you say "drive like a normal person". whatever that means. I'm not seeing how any of your post were helpful to the OP. Your first post pretty much criticized him for asking the question. You then went on to criticize others who actually were offering they're opinions. Saying heel-toe is laughable, so you post a video of it. (which was freakin awesome btw) The rest were vague comments on how the clutch is gonna wear out. you see how that is conflicting. Look, i respect the fact that your a long standing member of this forum, and typically your post are helpful. The OP is obviously new to manual shifting to ask such a question. So he needs a straight forward answer. I'd imagine the dude is more confused now than before he posted up. To the OP: The one legit piece of advice is to seek out some track time if possible. Take an hpde or just do some autox events. You'll learn so much about your self and your car. Talk to other drivers, seek out advice from them. And you'll have so much fun your face will hurt from smiling so much. And its worth the money and travel time. Forgive me for assuming you've never been on a track but given the question at hand....

Fuck me for giving op the same advice in every post...


Take a class learn to do it right

Don't practice around other people

Brake normally until you have learned how to do it...



Whats so hard to follow...?

Telling someone who obviously doesn't even get rev matching about heel-toe breaking techniques is a formula for failure.

Still with me...?

OP, my official advice. Don't worry about downshifting until you become a better driver. Takes some advanced driving courses so that your will learn the proper way to downshift. Until then. Leave it in gear and apply the brakes, pop it out of gear as you come to a full stop...


Now, if you want to continue to e-coach OP to being mario fucking andretti, he's all yours

[Tadweezy]

my dads a truck driver he told me on downshifting to hit the breaks a few times. then down shift i felt a jery motion. so my self i took it to the next level go on the highway put your self in the sisuation that u need to down shift. i relased its easier to learn that way ito down shift i want to say around 1500-1800 rmps. i do mostly city driving so learning to down shift was a major pain in the butt. (MS3 aslo my first stick but i drove a jeep wrangler with stick but always put it in nuetral)

you will fine your own way to get your smooth downshifts, im not a big fan of rev match.. double clutch and heel toe need practice but you can do it

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Tadweezy my dads a truck driver he told me on downshifting to hit the breaks a few times then down shift i felt a jery motion so my self i took it to the next level go on the highway put your self in the sisuation that u need to down shift at i relased its easier to learn that way i down shift i want to say aroun 1500-1800 rmps i do mostly city driving so learning to down shift was a major pain in the butt (MS3 aslo my first stick but i drove a jeep wrangler with stick but always put it in nuetral) you will fine your own way to get your smooth downshifts, im not a big fan of rev match.. double clutch and heel toe need practice but you can do it

Step 1. Click 'Edit' button on post
Step 2. Spellcheck
Step 3. Fix grammar
Step 4. Add punctuation
Step 5. Click 'Save'

[breakfstincluded]

Originally Posted by Tadweezy im not a big fan of rev match..

????

LOL

WUT

[snOhio]

i can downshift with no perceptible jerk if i double clutch. clutch in, shift to neutral, clutch out, throttle blip, clutch in, select gear, clutch out. to get a feel for how much throttle blip you need, go find a straight empty stretch of road. get up to fourth gear at about 2k rpm. note your speed, then downshift to third and get going the same speed. note the difference in rpms - it's like 1200. do that for 5-4, 4-3, and 3-2 and you will have a better idea of how much you need to blip the throttle.

good luck, once you master downshifting you're really going to feel better about your stick shift skills.

[Teethkikr]

Originally Posted by Tadweezy my dads a truck driver he told me on downshifting to hit the breaks a few times then down shift i felt a jery motion so my self i took it to the next level go on the highway put your self in the sisuation that u need to down shift at i relased its easier to learn that way i down shift i want to say aroun 1500-1800 rmps i do mostly city driving so learning to down shift was a major pain in the butt (MS3 aslo my first stick but i drove a jeep wrangler with stick but always put it in nuetral) you will fine your own way to get your smooth downshifts, im not a big fan of rev match.. double clutch and heel toe need practice but you can do it

Shouldnt there be a period in there somewhere? That was painful to read.

Summary: My dads a truck driver blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

[Tadweezy]

Originally Posted by silvapain Step 1. Click 'Edit' button on post Step 2. Spellcheck Step 3. Fix grammar Step 4. Add punctuation Step 5. Click 'Save'

i dont got time to be perefect with spelling and all. at work i get a short window of time to read and post.