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 Old 09-22-2017, 09:23 AM   #1
 
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Default Dropping fuel pressure under WOT

Hey all, so recently I've noticed an issue during wot pulls in 3rd and 4th gear. At first I thought it was misfiring but under inspection of the plugs they are in good shape. I logged a few pulls and saw my fuel pressure drop from ~1800-1900psi down to 500psi and even 280psi at one point. It looks like it's only dropping for one cell then it bounces back up to where it should be. This happened a few times during one pull. Boost stays the same and AFR doesn't go lean but fuel pressure is dropping for sure. Where should I start in diagnosing this? What are the possible causes for this? ITFP? HPFP? Any help would be great thanks. Also I can post the log when I get home if you need to see it.
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 Old 09-23-2017, 11:09 AM   #2
 
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Anyone?
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 Old 09-26-2017, 09:17 AM   #3
 
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What brand hpfp
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 Old 09-27-2017, 02:45 PM   #4
 
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You need to read the forums, bro. This issue has been long well known and beaten into the dirt. The OEM HPFP is not strong enough for mods. Pu's are notorious for going bad without warning. Sometimes you don't even need mods. Look into a new pump from CS, or internals from Autotech or CS.
Consider this a nice warning. Most people here don't take kindly to users who don't read before posting.

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 Old 09-27-2017, 03:18 PM   #5
 
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HPFP internals are done as my signature suggests. I've got autotech internals. In tank pump holds a steady 60psi when key is on. When I start the engine the needle bounces between 40-80psi which I found interesting.

Originally Posted by PlatinumCore16 View Post
You need to read the forums, bro. This issue has been long well known and beaten into the dirt. The OEM HPFP is not strong enough for mods. Pu's are notorious for going bad without warning. Sometimes you don't even need mods. Look into a new pump from CS, or internals from Autotech or CS.
Consider this a nice warning. Most people here don't take kindly to users who don't read before posting.

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Yea...with the mods on this car the HPFP was the first thing changed. My signature shows I've done this. Thanks though
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 Old 09-27-2017, 03:56 PM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by gotovato View Post
HPFP internals are done as my signature suggests. I've got autotech internals. In tank pump holds a steady 60psi when key is on. When I start the engine the needle bounces between 40-80psi which I found interesting.



Yea...with the mods on this car the HPFP was the first thing changed. My signature shows I've done this. Thanks though
Well, my sincerest apologies. Tapatalk doesn't make sigs immediately readable. That is much weirder then, but I would still suspect HPFP is not good. Where'd you get the internals?

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 Old 09-27-2017, 04:06 PM   #7
 
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I got them from Cobb. They've been installed for about a year now with no issue. I'm thinking this could be an issue with the pressure relief valve opening up and not holding pressure as it should?
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 Old 09-27-2017, 04:33 PM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by gotovato View Post
I got them from Cobb. They've been installed for about a year now with no issue. I'm thinking this could be an issue with the pressure relief valve opening up and not holding pressure as it should?
I believe I've read about that happening to others before, could be. You got good internals from a reputable seller, so that's more than likely not it, so I'm out of my experience here. Will continue to follow though. Good luck to you.

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 Old 09-27-2017, 04:54 PM   #9
 
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Search other threads about the PRV and you may find the issue.
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 Old 10-02-2017, 09:37 PM   #10
 
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Replaced the valve. Same issue. Thinking it might be fuel rail pressure sensor based on the logs.
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 Old 10-21-2017, 07:37 AM   #11
 
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Did you ever find the problem?

Im having the same exact issue.
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 Old 10-21-2017, 07:48 AM   #12
 
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Right now me and my tuner think it's the fuel pressure sensor on the rail with how the logs look and when the fuel pressure drops its for a single cell in the log. Goes from 1800ish right down to 300 then instantly back up. When the fuel pressure drops the car goes rich based on the logs so we're thinking its dumping fuel due to seeing low fuel pressure from a bad sensor. Currently waiting on a sensor to see if that's the fix.
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 Old 10-21-2017, 10:20 AM   #13
 
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Fuel pressure sensor? Is this the item that is permanently attached to the fuel rail?

Do you have a part number or link by any chance?
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 Old 10-21-2017, 04:09 PM   #14
 
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It comes with the fuel rail. It is removable but from what I've heard you can replaced just the sensor, if you can find one. My tuner "knows a guy" and is bringing me in just the sensor. I have no part number for it unfortunately. Apparently the whole rail with sensor is the only way to find it from the dealer and it's not cheap or fun to replace.
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 Old 10-22-2017, 11:34 AM   #15
 
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None of that sounds good.

Please post your results.

Any idea how bad it is to drop psi in just one cell? I wonder if I need to stay off WOT until I get it fixed?
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 Old 10-22-2017, 11:36 AM   #16
 
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My guys have been suggesting I stay off wot. Normal drive ability seems fine though only under wot does it happen. And it seems it goes rich when the pressure drops meaning it's probably just the sensor and you won't really damage anything it just feels like garbage to go wot.
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 Old 10-22-2017, 11:40 AM   #17
 
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So far I have replaced my fuel pump in the tank and have rebuilt my HPFP and I'm still getting low psi in one cell during WOT logs. It only happens one or two cells per pull. Its driving me crazy trying to locate the issue.

Anyway, please keep me posted on your results.


Thanks!
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 Old 10-22-2017, 03:17 PM   #18
 
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This has been driving me crazy too. As soon as I replace the sensor I'll report back. Hoping that's the issue.
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 Old 11-11-2017, 08:12 PM   #19
 
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Well, I installed the corksport HPFP braided line and rebuilt the HPFP with all new o-rings.

Im still getting dips in preassure. ARGHHHHHHH!!!!!!
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 Old 11-11-2017, 08:18 PM   #20
 
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I'm still waiting for the sensor to arrive. My car will be going into storage for the winter very soon. Hopefully I get the sensor soon
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 Old 12-06-2017, 09:55 PM   #21
 
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I fixed it. It was the fuel rail sensor. I took it out and cleaned it.
Im not getting the psi dips like I was. The lowest psi I see at WOT is 1550. Which is a drastic improvement.

I ordered a new sensor thorugh ebay coming from germany. Im hoping the new sensor will put me psi up to the 1700 psi range. But if not I can live with 1550.
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 Old 12-06-2017, 10:16 PM   #22
 
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Well that is significantly better. My car has been put away for the season for about a month now so I can't really test anything on it. I do have access to a new sensor though so when the time comes I'll throw it in. I guess we can confirm this is an issue caused by the fuel rail pressure sensor. Thanks for the input man!
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 Old 04-20-2018, 06:41 PM   #23
 
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So. I've pulled the car out. Swapped the sensor and same issue. I'm wondering if I found the true problem though. First off I'm still on the factory MAP which as I understand can't really read past 22psi. It seems if I hold boost around 19-20 I have zero issues. As soon as it creeps 22psi I have the fuel pressure drop. Is this over boost protection or something of that sort? Perhaps some sort of ecu cut?
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 Old 04-20-2018, 08:30 PM   #24
 
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Yes, it is probably a soft fuel cut.

Another thing to do is log rpm, actual fuel rail pressure, commanded fuel rail pressure, AFR and add injector pulse width.

If there is a true drop in actual rail pressure versus commanded value, the ecu will increase injector pulse width. It will in increase the length of time the injector sprays to compensate for the drop in pressure in order to maintain target AFR.

If it does this then your pump is going bad. Even with upgraded internals, shit wears out over time.
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 Old 04-20-2018, 08:44 PM   #25
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post
Yes, it is probably a soft fuel cut.

Another thing to do is log rpm, actual fuel rail pressure, commanded fuel rail pressure, AFR and add injector pulse width.

If there is a true drop in actual rail pressure versus commanded value, the ecu will increase injector pulse width. It will in increase the length of time the injector sprays to compensate for the drop in pressure in order to maintain target AFR.

If it does this then your pump is going bad. Even with upgraded internals, shit wears out over time.
I'm logging IDC. I've added injector pulse width, what is commanded fuel pressure called in the AP?

ive taken a log here where i could feel it hitting the fuel cut but it doesnt show on the log, maybe it was too quick or not severe enough?
Attached Files
File Type: csv datalog25.csv (10.7 KB, 4 views)
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 Old 04-20-2018, 10:02 PM   #26
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3071 on stock MAP sensor?
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 Old 04-20-2018, 10:06 PM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Pu Manchu View Post
3071 on stock MAP sensor?
i agree. when i bought the car i didnt know much about the platform. big mistake. ive got a corksport 3.5 bar ready to drop in though.
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 Old 04-21-2018, 06:51 AM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by gotovato View Post
I'm logging IDC. I've added injector pulse width, what is commanded fuel pressure called in the AP?

ive taken a log here where i could feel it hitting the fuel cut but it doesnt show on the log, maybe it was too quick or not severe enough?
I log with a different system, Palmer Engineering's ScanXL Pro. It's Mazda specific PIDs may have different names. I need to pull an old log from when I was monitoring for a similar issue. I think that PID was simply called "rail pressure-commanded."
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 Old 04-21-2018, 06:55 AM   #29
 
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Ok thanks for the help. In the log I took nothing appears to be off. I believe I need to take another one that actually captures the fuel pressure drop. Just want to make sure I'm logging all the right info
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