Ease of modding/working on MS3 vs. WRX

[jakk]

Hi. I am hoping to buy a vehicle in June/July, and the two primary contestants at this point are the MS3 and WRX. The MS3 clearly wins in the value department, but I am also seriously considering the WRX. Although I do not have much experience actually working on cars given the fact that I currently drive my parent's Sienna, I hope to change this with the next car I purchase. Through the forum browsing that I have done, it seems to me that it is easier to mod/work on a MS3 than a WRX. It seems like most of the mods for a WRX require that it be taken to a tuning shop, while many mods can be done on the MS3 before a pro tune is needed. I was just wondering if this is really the case, or if I am just getting the wrong impression from reading forums. Thanks for your help.

[dizzydtrain]

I disagree on the tuning. An e-tune or pro-tune is what will ultimately prolong the life of this engine. I don't know much about Subaru's but I am sure someone can give you a rundown of all the pro's and con's of Speed3 vs Wrx.

I would also factor in how used the cars you are looking at are. You can make pretty good power on the speed 3 with a few bolt ons but in order to make it all work together safely you should be upgrading internals and learning how to use Accessport/pay someone to tune your car.

The one nice thing about this site is that you can easily hook up with a tuner for $200 bucks or less (not talking about blowies either).

Do you need/want AWD?

[jakk]

I live in the midwest and see a fair amount of snow, so the AWD would be nice. That being said, I'm sure the speed would be fine if I threw on some snow tires in the winter. If an e-tune can get the same job done as a pro-tune, then that would be an attractive option as I would not have to drive to a shop. I imagine that I'll get an AP soon after the purchase of the car to monitor it, but I can't imagine doing much mod wise beyond a RMM and short throw shifter as I wouldn't want to screw up the warranty. Also, if there are any prior/current WRX ownsers, I was wondering how the MS3 compares stock handling wise to the WRX. Thanks for your help.

[dizzydtrain]

Originally Posted by jakk I live in the midwest and see a fair amount of snow, so the AWD would be nice. That being said, I'm sure the speed would be fine if I threw on some snow tires in the winter. If an e-tune can get the same job done as a pro-tune, then that would be an attractive option as I would not have to drive to a shop. I imagine that I'll get an AP soon after the purchase of the car to monitor it, but I can't imagine doing much mod wise beyond a RMM and short throw shifter as I wouldn't want to screw up the warranty. Also, if there are any prior/current WRX ownsers, I was wondering how the MS3 compares stock handling wise to the WRX. Thanks for your help.

Depends what year you are talking about. Until just recently with the new reiteration of the WRX (widebody), Subaru was getting shat on by Mazda in terms of handling and performance. Look up some of the hatchback shoot outs on youtube or search for them--Mazda single handledly destroyed the competition with overall value and performance.

Plenty of guys with a Gen1 run an intake and RMM and are pretty content. If you are talking about a Gen2 then you want to look into upgrade fuel pump internals as well (if you ask me, upgraded fuel pump should be a must either way to be safe).

So you could have a very safe and quick daily driver by getting an AP, FP, SRI, RMM and getting a solid tune from one of the guys on here.

btw... I am from the NE and run snow tires without problems.

[Brennan]

Originally Posted by jakk I live in the midwest and see a fair amount of snow, so the AWD would be nice. That being said, I'm sure the speed would be fine if I threw on some snow tires in the winter. If an e-tune can get the same job done as a pro-tune, then that would be an attractive option as I would not have to drive to a shop. I imagine that I'll get an AP soon after the purchase of the car to monitor it, but I can't imagine doing much mod wise beyond a RMM and short throw shifter as I wouldn't want to screw up the warranty. Also, if there are any prior/current WRX ownsers, I was wondering how the MS3 compares stock handling wise to the WRX. Thanks for your help.

I live in Pittsburgh and have steelies with snow tires on the MS3 for the winter. It performs better in the snow than my old '00 AWD RAV4 that had all-seasons, and I have yet to have any problems.

Also, if you go AP, short shifter, and RMM, more mods will follow regardless of warranty. I told myself I wasn't doing anything other than an intake before the warranty was up and that is quickly going to shit . Just remember to keep your stock parts. As far as ease of modding, I hadn't done much work on cars before the MS3 besides spark plugs, oil, and brakes, and I haven't had any issues working on the MS3 so far. Then again, everything I've done has been stupid simple.

Good luck with your purchase, it's nice to see someone doing their research.

[Elusivellama]

I run Hankook w409s (205/60/16) on 16" steels and I don't ever get stuck even going uphill. There will be some slippage on the odd occasion, which is normal if there is a lot of snow on the road, but keep your DSC/TC on, ease on the gas pedal and you won't have a problem.

You'll be okay with just an AP and a stage 1 map, short ram intake/turbo inlet hose and HPFP internals. Add on stuff like a RMM for less drivetrain slop. That's basically the setup I'm running right now and I'm already looking forward to stage 2 later this year (downpipe, upgraded TMIC, stage 2 map, protune... all will come eventually).

[Voltwings]

i too was considering a WRX to an ms3 (have had my '10 ms3 for about a year and a half now) and the key factor i saw was that it was significantly cheaper to mod an ms3 as opposed to a wrx. Also theres a few guys i hang out with that own STI's and they said any sort of intake / intercooler work is expensive and a complete bitch to install while all exhaust mods are a breeze. MS3 seems to be the exact opposite where most induction mods are fairly easy and most exhaust mods / turbo swaps are slightly more of a pain. Also keep in mind with the AWD wrx your $$ yields more hp/fun/whatever with an ms3 since you're only powering two wheels instead of 4, just my 2 cents.

[dizzydtrain]

Originally Posted by Voltwings i too was considering a WRX to an ms3 (have had my '10 ms3 for about a year and a half now) and the key factor i saw was that it was significantly cheaper to mod an ms3 as opposed to a wrx. Also theres a few guys i hang out with that own STI's and they said any sort of intake / intercooler work is expensive and a complete bitch to install while all exhaust mods are a breeze. MS3 seems to be the exact opposite where most induction mods are fairly easy and most exhaust mods / turbo swaps are slightly more of a pain. Also keep in mind with the AWD wrx your $$ yields more hp/fun/whatever with an ms3 since you're only powering two wheels instead of 4, just my 2 cents.

Can you elaborate on the more fun per hp? You might have more grip launching but from a hp to $ ratio, the speed takes the cake because it won't experience as significant of a drivetrain loss as the WRX.

[cabrone]

Having had 3 subaru's in the past (02 wrx, 07 wrx, 07 sti), the STI was the most fun I've ever had in the snow. Period. Set the differential to LOCK and launch at damn near any RMP and just go (just don't use in tight turns, the Differential binds up). The 07 wrx (now remedied in the newer models) had an open rear dif making it hardly fun in the snow or wet). AWD is superior (flame on) however, the massive amounts of ring land failures on the 2.5 engines (257, 255, etc) seems to be quite terrible and happens way too often. Subaru is going back to a 2.0 in the wrx in 2013, fwiw

Originally Posted by dizzydtrain Can you elaborate on the more fun per hp? You might have more grip launching but from a hp to $ ratio, the speed takes the cake because it won't experience as significant of a drivetrain loss as the WRX.

This is correct. The drive train loss is, iirc, 25% of the 300. so Dyno @ 225 (mustang dyno)

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by dizzydtrain Can you elaborate on the more fun per hp? You might have more grip launching but from a hp to $ ratio, the speed takes the cake because it won't experience as significant of a drivetrain loss as the WRX.

what i meant by fun for hp as far as i was concerned was that for the maybe $3k ive spent on mods in my sig i can yank just about anything on the road (id call my biggest kill to date a boss 302 mustang using the track key) and you're not going to get that out of the wrx. Now i dont know the extent he plans to mod and i test drove a few wrx's and they are a blast, so you're right, just depends on where you want your "fast" to be.