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 Old 08-11-2017, 05:19 PM   #1
 
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Default Filled up on 100 octane!

In Nevada the highest octane I can get is 91 unless I go to special stations.
Usually I mix 91 with 100 to create about 93, but last fill up I figured I'd go a little higher and see how my numbers look. Took the mixture to 95.6. Seemed to idle smoother on start, cold starts are sometimes rough because the ambient temps of the car are anywhere between 130-160, but no stutters with it this round.

Today I got myself down to ~1/4 tank of the 95.6 mix. Went to gas station, and put in 4 gallons of 100 octane alone. Started up and drove off to the highway.

Now I'll start off by saying I didn't notice anything SUBSTANTIAL under normal load and drive. Going from light to light felt marginally smoother (not placebo), but only in the sense that the transition to quick take off up to 4k rpm running through each gear until I hit 50mph was like a lizard gliding on ice

Then I got on the highway.

Only power mods I have are TIP and SRI. Stock tune as I have no HPFP (still going strong at 1700psi WOT).
Immediately I felt a much quicker response in turbo and the typical power drop I get after 6000rpm wasn't as significant, and could hold 15.6 pounds all the way to redline without feeling that power drop off.

According to the chart I use for reference I was running 97.8 octane, I am now even MORE excited to get tuned for E85 than I was before! This is awesome!
Though it makes me wonder what quality issues the 91 octane has that would inhibit my cars ability to run as nicely as this. I'll be buying a gasoline quality test kit and start station hunting, because @ 8 bucks a gallon I can't fill up this much all the time lol.

Just felt like sharing todays story with you guys. Sorta side question for anybody running E85 tunes long-term: how has the stock fuel system held up, and just for kicks whats your mpg lol

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 Old 08-11-2017, 05:34 PM   #2
 
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My first thought is to tell you its all in your head haha. But I could see it feeling smoother, less kr = less interruptions in power and a smoother powerband.

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 Old 08-11-2017, 05:41 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by andale927 View Post
My first thought is to tell you its all in your head haha. But I could see it feeling smoother, less kr = less interruptions in power and a smoother powerband.

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:p I knew I was gonna get that, but as somebody whos' spine shrivels and cringes when people think they feel gains from stupid shit (like the car feels faster after an oil change lmao wat), I really tried to shut this down and say it didn't change anything.
Could also be that the higher octane really suits the heat out here, or the 91 octane is just trash.

Either way, this has really got me thinking about E85 or meth, a lot. Had an alky control system in the last car I owned with meth in it. Set it up to only squirt when I'm going wot. Loved it.
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 Old 08-11-2017, 06:56 PM   #4
 
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The added power after 5700rpm, assuming you always run premium fuel, does not jive with the ECU tables. Knock sensor is off after 5700rpm, so you cant be experiencing a reduction in KR resulting in more power. As well, the throttle plate starts closing around the same rpm and will close independent of anything fuel related (will close no matter what octane you have).

You seem pretty sure of the results, so I will believe you, and seek a reason why there was some more power. Perhaps your normal fuel mix is lower octane than you think? and this brought you up to a regular premium fuel octane level? Perhaps your car was previously triggered to low octane mode (cuts timing 3-4 degrees more or less; not just for a moment like KR, but longer term) and this corrected it? Perhaps there is a different specific gravity of this race fuel and its causing you to run leaner making more power?
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 Old 08-11-2017, 07:00 PM   #5
 
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Possibly, my AFR was slightly higher too, but nothing big. I've had issues with all 91 octane out in my local area, and after a little bit of research I really am convinced that the quality of it is despicable, or isn't as advertised. I'm gonna drive out to AZ and fill up on my next run, because like you said the octane mix may be lower than what that little chart says, and considering I've had issues with 91 out here it may very well be QC.

Thanks for the input , and now I wanna run eth even more hahahaha!
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 Old 08-11-2017, 07:03 PM   #6
 
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Get a tune with meth injection or an in tank e85 blend and the results will blow your mind! Although, you do have a pro charged LS2...LOL

Best of luck!
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 Old 08-11-2017, 07:10 PM   #7
 
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>.< let my dad sell it actually. I don't trust any companies to ship it from Michigan to Nevada, and I get 12mpg highway at best so it was a lost cause. Plus I'll admit that was just too much HP for me. After you break 750 at the rear it feels like more of a chore to drive than it is fun.
However having meth always spray only on WOT was a VERY VERY nice feature to have. Then having a nice hidden level sensor to tell me when I am getting low, and a sensor to ensure it's spraying. If I do meth on this car I'll 4sho spend the big bucks to get a nice kit again. It's a lot of money, but it pays off in the end.
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 Old 08-11-2017, 08:38 PM   #8
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e85 is nuts with direct injection, about 115-135 octane depending on the seasonal/regional formulation. if you mixed 50/50 91/e85 you could advance timing beyond MBT without registering knock.
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 Old 08-11-2017, 10:28 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Pu Manchu View Post
e85 is nuts with direct injection, about 115-135 octane depending on the seasonal/regional formulation. if you mixed 50/50 91/e85 you could advance timing beyond MBT without registering knock.
That's hot. I love driving this car so much, just can't get enough of it!
I wonder if freek or purple drank could make a custom map for 100/e85+meth for any serious track days. Once I get the car built up to where I am happy, I'm taking it to Mazda Leguna in CA and would plan to stay an entire weekend.

edit: should clarify that I understand I'll never be happy and will always want to make her even better lol. I will be going to the track once I've finished the suspension and downpipe + hpfp and tune. For me that's more than enough to be able to enjoy the car at a track. I've done some stuff already on stock suspension, and given it's FWD, I need to beef up the rear because some corners give me some NASTY understeer. Scared the shit out of me the first time, never had a corner scare me before haha, this is my first performance FWD car too, so I still have some driving mechanics I gotta learn since I come from RWD and AWD!
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 Old 08-12-2017, 08:56 AM   #10
 
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Your AFR change is indicative of KR with your old mix. Registered knock does 2 things, pull timing and fuel enrichment. Higher AFRs mean there wasn't as much, or none at all, fuel enrichment which also means more timing. That is the power gain you felt. 100 octane doesn't make more power by itself than 87. But it does allow more timing...to make more power...up to a point.

Also note: E85 isn't 115+ octane. Pure ethanol is about 99 octane AKI. E85 is cheap because they mix pure ethanol with crap gasoline to achieve an octane closer to 95.

http://www.sunocoracefuels.com/tech-...hol-and-octane
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 Old 08-12-2017, 11:27 AM   #11
 
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Yeah, I'll try having my old test kit shipped down here if I can remember where I left it. I know a ton of people run 91 just fine so it might just be my location. Vegas is very shady
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 Old 08-12-2017, 05:18 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
Also note: E85 isn't 115+ octane. Pure ethanol is about 99 octane AKI. E85 is cheap because they mix pure ethanol with crap gasoline to achieve an octane closer to 95.
https://energy.mit.edu/wp-content/up...-08-001-RP.pdf
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 Old 08-13-2017, 07:43 AM   #13
 
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Agree to disagree? Different values are published across the web. That MIT paper cites an SAE paper, but I cant read that one without buying it. Not happening.

But I will admit I'm more inclined to believe SAE than wiki or sunoco.
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 Old 08-13-2017, 10:29 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by ProChargedLS2 View Post
I wonder if freek or purple drank could make a custom map for 100/e85+meth for any serious track days.
yerp they can; when you order your custom tune you can add an e/meth map for like $50 more.
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 Old 08-13-2017, 01:41 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
But I will admit I'm more inclined to believe SAE than wiki or sunoco.
once you have a car tuned on 93, then tuned on e30, it becomes much easier to believe.
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 Old 08-13-2017, 04:30 PM   #16
 
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The actual octane number is quite irrelevant.

I know what e85 does. I use 2 gal/tank because I didn't want to retune for this summer heat. Once things cool back down or when I upgrade my intercooler, whichever comes first, I'll be back to straight 93.
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 Old 08-13-2017, 04:56 PM   #17
 
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i mean, I've always read that e85 is about 105 octane, with an e30-40 mix coming in around 97-98ish.
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 Old 08-13-2017, 08:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
The actual octane number is quite irrelevant.
agreed.

the 50hp gains speak for themselves.
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 Old 08-13-2017, 08:54 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Pu Manchu View Post
agreed.

the 50hp gains speak for themselves.
So the less educated aren't led astray...
Don't go around thinking that simply putting ethanol in your tank will make your car faster. Same goes for 100 octane gasoline.
Ideally, you want the lowest octane possible without knock.
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 Old 08-14-2017, 08:42 AM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by Fstrnyou View Post
So the less educated aren't led astray...
Don't go around thinking that simply putting ethanol in your tank will make your car faster. Same goes for 100 octane gasoline.
Ideally, you want the lowest octane possible without knock.
I just filled up on some 91 from Shell. Car runs like absolute SHIT. Gonna walk to work this week and drain the tank this weekend. I might reset the ECU and drive it like grandma for a few hundo instead, but damn it was rough.
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 Old 08-14-2017, 08:44 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by ProChargedLS2 View Post
I just filled up on some 91 from Shell. Car runs like absolute SHIT. Gonna walk to work this week and drain the tank this weekend. I might reset the ECU and drive it like grandma for a few hundo instead, but damn it was rough.


I have found Shell to be really hit or miss


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 Old 08-14-2017, 08:44 AM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by ProChargedLS2 View Post
I just filled up on some 91 from Shell.
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 Old 08-14-2017, 08:49 AM   #23
 
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Well living in Vegas makes finding good gas hard. So close to CA there's no 93. I figured Shell's V-Power 91 would be my best bet. I haven't seen any BP out here yet
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 Old 08-14-2017, 09:19 AM   #24
 
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Hmm...your car seems to be running worse than would be expected even if your gas is a little subpar. How are your fuel trims? Any chance of a post MAF, pre-turbo leak? or loose coupler?

I could see that causing you to run lean at higher throttle (closed loop) and making it run like crap, but those issues would be "masked" with higher octane fuel.

Loose turbo inlet pipes are pretty common - just a thought.
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 Old 08-14-2017, 09:47 AM   #25
 
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I feel really stupid now, thanks speed. Don't know how it comes loose since there isn't much room to move at all. I honestly wouldn't have checked that.

Idles fine now, but it still hiccups a bit around 3600. No fault codes, fuel pressure is 1690 at WOT, afr is at 11.4, and at wot it runs fine. Dunno, gonna check plugs next and see if anything is wrong with that.

Edit: spark plugs are fine. Disconnected battery and ECU and MAF. Left it for a few minutes, then connected. Drove around base for a few mins and everything is fine.
Did running 100 really change the timing that much?
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 Old 08-14-2017, 12:12 PM   #26
 
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Originally Posted by ProChargedLS2 View Post
I feel really stupid now, thanks speed. Don't know how it comes loose since there isn't much room to move at all. I honestly wouldn't have checked that.

Idles fine now, but it still hiccups a bit around 3600. No fault codes, fuel pressure is 1690 at WOT, afr is at 11.4, and at wot it runs fine. Dunno, gonna check plugs next and see if anything is wrong with that.

Edit: spark plugs are fine. Disconnected battery and ECU and MAF. Left it for a few minutes, then connected. Drove around base for a few mins and everything is fine.
Did running 100 really change the timing that much?
Nope, timing wouldnt have changed if you added higher octane fuel.

Your car could have adjusted to the leak via fuel trims (adding more fuel), then when you fixed the leak, it still used the learned, now wrong, fuel trims. resetting the battery, resets the trims back to zero.
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 Old 08-14-2017, 06:07 PM   #27
 
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Timing tables only change during knock or "abnormal" conditions.

Trims can tune out a small to medium sized leak if it's a gradual progression. But if you have a sudden medium leak, it'll run like crap. Fuel trims will be + when open loop. The problem is, when you fix the leak, it'll still be adding fuel to compensate for a leak that is no longer there. Short term trims will be - to pull fuel back out, but it's too little to make it run smooth until the long term trims settle back down.
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1988 RX-7 TII - Sold (Megasquirt, streetport, SRI, TBE, 20psi, OE turbo, OE TMIC on ice, 13.467 @ 105.44)
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 Old 08-15-2017, 09:19 PM   #28
 
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Didn't even read this thread only the OP BUT SORRY DUDE it's in your head, load of horse shit your head plays on you to justify $8 a gallon. Ask any of the guys at freektuned or PDT or Stratified. Unless it was 110 degrees outside and your car was suffering from inadequate cooling from your IC and you were seeing knock beforehand this is literally all placebo
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