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 Old 11-02-2019, 03:46 PM   #1
 
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Default First tune questions

I have 2.5” intake with TIP, HPFP, CP-e TMIC and running Cobb OTS map and car is running well. I am planning to get a real tune with a well known tuner. However, I have been waiting as I just purchased a 3” full intake/TIP to max out the K04.

My plan is to install the 3” intake and get the tune with this set-up. I would prefer to add the intake and anything else and then getting the tune to save money rather than getting tuned with every new part.

My questions:
Should I wait until I get an aftermarket BPV prior to adding the 3” intake and tune?

Is it worth it to wait and get and EBCS prior to tuning?

Is there anything else I should get prior to my first tune? I have 80k and just started modding my 2010 MS3.

PS: I have plans for a CS TB exhaust and will tune no mattwr what after this. I am also loking into valve cleaning and injector cleaning and seals.

Thanks for any thoughts.
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 Old 11-02-2019, 05:49 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by tripppleP View Post
I have 2.5” intake with TIP, HPFP, CP-e TMIC and running Cobb OTS map and car is running well. I am planning to get a real tune with a well known tuner. However, I have been waiting as I just purchased a 3” full intake/TIP to max out the K04.

My plan is to install the 3” intake and get the tune with this set-up. I would prefer to add the intake and anything else and then getting the tune to save money rather than getting tuned with every new part.

My questions:
Should I wait until I get an aftermarket BPV prior to adding the 3” intake and tune?

Is it worth it to wait and get and EBCS prior to tuning?

Is there anything else I should get prior to my first tune? I have 80k and just started modding my 2010 MS3.

PS: I have plans for a CS TB exhaust and will tune no mattwr what after this. I am also loking into valve cleaning and injector cleaning and seals.

Thanks for any thoughts.
You continue to ask questions that have been asked and answered literally hundreds of times before. I don't understand why you can't be bothered to do a little bit of leg work to find and read the relevant threads yourself.

Please read the following link, and the tuning guide and mod path it includes in its entirety. It will answer every question you may have, and then some.
ATR User Manual: Hybrid Tuning for Noobs to Early Advanced - Noddy's Guide
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 Old 11-02-2019, 08:58 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by tripppleP View Post
I have 2.5” intake with TIP, HPFP, CP-e TMIC and running Cobb OTS map and car is running well. I am planning to get a real tune with a well known tuner. However, I have been waiting as I just purchased a 3” full intake/TIP to max out the K04.

My plan is to install the 3” intake and get the tune with this set-up. I would prefer to add the intake and anything else and then getting the tune to save money rather than getting tuned with every new part.

My questions:
Should I wait until I get an aftermarket BPV prior to adding the 3” intake and tune?

Is it worth it to wait and get and EBCS prior to tuning?

Is there anything else I should get prior to my first tune? I have 80k and just started modding my 2010 MS3.

PS: I have plans for a CS TB exhaust and will tune no mattwr what after this. I am also loking into valve cleaning and injector cleaning and seals.

Thanks for any thoughts.
Why do you want an aftermarket BPV? The stock one is a very elegant dual diaphragm design that will hold boost well above the operational efficiency of the K04.

I agree with Vansquush and his frustration with your lack of effort on even the most basic questions that have been answered scores of times.

But, seriously, is your BPV leaking? They rarely really do. People waste a lot of money on BPVs that don’t work any better than what came on their car.
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Sunlight Silver '08 MS3 GT Mods: (Sold 1/25/2019 after 10+ years of ownership)
BNR Stage 1 (to fix smoking K04 turbo), TurboXS 3" Catless DP/RP "Stealthback" into stock CBE, Vibrant 3 inch Ultra Quiet Resonator in RP section, Magnaflow 3 1/2" exhaust tip, Mazdaspeed CAI w/air straightener and K&N conical filter, NGK 6510 Iridium IX one step colder plugs, Hypertech tune, Autotech HPFP internals, Stock BPV (works perfectly), Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R's (stock size on stock rims); Hawk HPS pads; SURE RMM; Grimmspeed EBCS (2 port mode), Bilstein B6's, SPC rear camber arms.

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 Old 11-03-2019, 10:28 AM   #4
 
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You guys need to understand the frustration on my end. I research old threads, watch youtube videos daily, have joined multiple facebook groups and seem to do nothing but read about the MS3. I cant understand how anyone could possible read more than I do on the subject. I dont really talk to car guys or mechanics regularly so Im trying to educate myself.

Its hard to find info on this particular website because all the old threads might have kind of similar questions yet definitely are filled with banter and also people telling others to research. Im noticing there used to be a larger collective group on this website and now not many people are posting any longer. I try to contribute when I can but Im still learning. I did donate to the site as I appreciate the help and education I have learned from it.

I have been on internet forums of other subject matter for the past 18 years and whenever newbies come along im happy to answer their questions or supply them with links to old threads. Sorry, I appreciate newbies that show respect and do research like I have been doing and I dont understand why you think I dont research myself.


As far as the BPV. I read about people saying the stock BPV is a good device but some say it may leak with greater than stock PSI. Thats really the only reason I would want to go aftermarket. Youre answer makes me want to keep the stock.
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 Old 11-03-2019, 10:42 AM   #5
 
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EBCS isn’t really needed with the KO4. Adding a BPV shouldn’t require a change in tune. But as said before isn’t really needed with the KO4.

If you do get a EBCS depending on how you set it up will need a tune revision.
I would get one just because it’s a cheap upgrade and if you swap out turbo you will need one.
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 Old 11-03-2019, 06:47 PM   #6
 
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Originally Posted by tripppleP View Post
You guys need to understand the frustration on my end. I research old threads, watch youtube videos daily, have joined multiple facebook groups and seem to do nothing but read about the MS3. I cant understand how anyone could possible read more than I do on the subject. I dont really talk to car guys or mechanics regularly so Im trying to educate myself.

Its hard to find info on this particular website because all the old threads might have kind of similar questions yet definitely are filled with banter and also people telling others to research. Im noticing there used to be a larger collective group on this website and now not many people are posting any longer. I try to contribute when I can but Im still learning. I did donate to the site as I appreciate the help and education I have learned from it.

I have been on internet forums of other subject matter for the past 18 years and whenever newbies come along im happy to answer their questions or supply them with links to old threads. Sorry, I appreciate newbies that show respect and do research like I have been doing and I dont understand why you think I dont research myself.


As far as the BPV. I read about people saying the stock BPV is a good device but some say it may leak with greater than stock PSI. Thats really the only reason I would want to go aftermarket. Youre answer makes me want to keep the stock.
The results of your searching is not showing up in the questions you are asking. It’s like you either did not search or don’t like the answers, expecting to get a different answer to validate making a different decision.

99.9% of the “leaking” BPVs on K04 turbo engines were not leaking. People just succumbed to marketing hype. If your engine is hitting the targeted boost curve for your tune at decent wastegate percentages under full load you don’t have a leaking BPV. Some guys just like BOV noise makers as if they are adolescent boys trying to impress each other with arm pit farts.

Grassroots Motorsports Magazine even tested our OEM BPV against the most popular aftermarket version, the one made by Forge. Result: the Mazdaspeed OEM actually held boost better by almost 2 psi when pushed up well beyond K04 efficiency. When I read that, I decided to stick with OEM.

Now, if you go big turbo and push up boost into the 25+ psi range, that’s a different discussion. You can’t push the K04 beyond about 18-19 psi without turning it into an inefficient flamethrower with sky high BATs and loss of power and early failure. The central housing bearings and shaft are small (5mm) and can’t handle the heat. Read the Neuspeed sticky on this.

As to EBCS, on the K04 the only reason to “upgrade” is if it breaks a plastic nipple or actually fails. Mine failed. That is rare, too. It’s an electric solenoid. Either it works or not. Nothing gradual about failure, you’ll know it. It won’t “click” when energized and you will only have wastegate spring boost, 8-10 psi.

The Grimmspeed EBCS I bought to replace the stock unit was run in two port mode. That’s how the OEM one worked. Three port option provides more control, but requires a custom (read: expensive) tune for little to no benefit on a small turbo like the K04. I got it because it has metal (brass) nipples and not likely to break.
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Sunlight Silver '08 MS3 GT Mods: (Sold 1/25/2019 after 10+ years of ownership)
BNR Stage 1 (to fix smoking K04 turbo), TurboXS 3" Catless DP/RP "Stealthback" into stock CBE, Vibrant 3 inch Ultra Quiet Resonator in RP section, Magnaflow 3 1/2" exhaust tip, Mazdaspeed CAI w/air straightener and K&N conical filter, NGK 6510 Iridium IX one step colder plugs, Hypertech tune, Autotech HPFP internals, Stock BPV (works perfectly), Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R's (stock size on stock rims); Hawk HPS pads; SURE RMM; Grimmspeed EBCS (2 port mode), Bilstein B6's, SPC rear camber arms.

Last edited by MSMS3; 11-03-2019 at 07:00 PM.
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 Old 11-08-2019, 02:58 PM   #7
 
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So is the highly regarded freektune killing my car? Boost hits 21psi if I romp from 3500-4k, and 20.3-5 psi if I nail it from 3k. Just wondering.

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 Old 11-08-2019, 05:03 PM   #8
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Why would it be killing your car? If you nail the throttle at or just before peak torque at WOT, you can pretty much always expect a small boost spike that would not exist if you started your run at a lower RPM. The fact that you're only spiking 0.5 to 0.7 PSI above your target is pretty impressive, and a testament to Freek's tuning expertise.
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 Old 11-08-2019, 08:07 PM   #9
 
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Originally Posted by Vansquish View Post
Why would it be killing your car? If you nail the throttle at or just before peak torque at WOT, you can pretty much always expect a small boost spike that would not exist if you started your run at a lower RPM. The fact that you're only spiking 0.5 to 0.7 PSI above your target is pretty impressive, and a testament to Freek's tuning expertise.
No I was being sarcastic, really. My car holds 20psi and tapers to low 19/high 18s. Justin is a beast. It's just that the post before me said anything above 18-19psi on a k04 will be disastrous. I dunno, maybe long term, but proper turbo maintenance and not going full retard all the time will preserve its longevity.

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 Old 11-08-2019, 08:46 PM   #10
 
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Originally Posted by Sonofnothing View Post
No I was being sarcastic, really. My car holds 20psi and tapers to low 19/high 18s. Justin is a beast. It's just that the post before me said anything above 18-19psi on a k04 will be disastrous. I dunno, maybe long term, but proper turbo maintenance and not going full retard all the time will preserve its longevity.

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Unless you are running meth for cooling or higher ethanol content pushing the K04 that high at redline will cause the center shaft to soften, sag and the turbo will fail. The center shaft is only 5mm in diameter and boost that high at redline will produce exhaust gas temps above 1500 F., the failure point.

21 psi is safe at lower rpm. It is within the efficiency map there, but boost above 15psi at redline is the problem because exhaust gas temps soar.

Read the Neuspeed sticky on this subject.

K04 TURBO REPORT FROM NEUSPEED

While the VW/Audi aftermarket K04 has a different manifold attachment and others minor differences, it has the same center shaft and bearing journals.

18 psi at redline might work for a while. It did not for long for Neuspeed. They has a lot of failures, had an engineering company do a root cause analysis, and dialed back their tune.

You can max out the K04 on pump gas with only 15 psi at redline if you keep AFR rich for cylinder cooling and crank up timing.

Proceed at your peril.
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Sunlight Silver '08 MS3 GT Mods: (Sold 1/25/2019 after 10+ years of ownership)
BNR Stage 1 (to fix smoking K04 turbo), TurboXS 3" Catless DP/RP "Stealthback" into stock CBE, Vibrant 3 inch Ultra Quiet Resonator in RP section, Magnaflow 3 1/2" exhaust tip, Mazdaspeed CAI w/air straightener and K&N conical filter, NGK 6510 Iridium IX one step colder plugs, Hypertech tune, Autotech HPFP internals, Stock BPV (works perfectly), Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R's (stock size on stock rims); Hawk HPS pads; SURE RMM; Grimmspeed EBCS (2 port mode), Bilstein B6's, SPC rear camber arms.

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 Old 11-09-2019, 01:06 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by MSMS3 View Post

You can max out the K04 on pump gas with only 15 psi at redline if you keep AFR rich for cylinder cooling and crank up timing.

Proceed at your peril.
So I wonder then, in your opinion, is Justin or any of the other reputable tuners blowing our turbos? Can anyone who's run a custom freektune for years weigh in on this?

I don't beat my car, and I don't hold high rpms for any extended length of time, but of course I run 3rd gear to redline once in a while. I can't even max out 4th on most country roads because it's too fast for the roads.

I looked closer at my logs, and at 6400rpm, the boost is at 17.5psi. My afr is between 10.88 and 11.32 for the whole run, which is pretty rich as you stated.

Thanks for your input and detailed response!



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