Gearheads, weigh in on this.

[trf5000]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 My car was so sloppy stock, I think I would've done more damage missing shifts than the full replacement combo'd with a ssp that I have in now. I don't drive my car as hard as some of you guys do, but there is no way I'm taking my TWM out and going back to that slop they call a shifter from Mazda.

I agree with you on this one 100%. All I have is the TWM full replacement with the e4 knobage. No SSP and the car shifts great once warmed up.

Its the passes down the strip that have me worried about my trans lol.

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by helmetface How do you feel about the COBB's slop?

Compared to the E4 it's very minimal. I haven't driven a car with the stock shifter installed in a while so I can't say the different between the COBB and stock but the COBB feels solid IMO.

[helmetface]

Originally Posted by daafisch Compared to the E4 it's very minimal. I haven't driven a car with the stock shifter installed in a while so I can't say the different between the COBB and stock but the COBB feels solid IMO.

What's the E4 now? Is that TWM's STS?

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by helmetface What's the E4 now? Is that TWM's STS?

I believe the E4 is a knock off of the TWM. I think Protege Garage is the only place that sells it now.

[helmetface]

Originally Posted by daafisch I believe the E4 is a knock off of the TWM. I think Protege Garage is the only place that sells it now.

Wow that's cheap!

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by helmetface Wow that's cheap!

Yeah, install it.. I dare you... Lawl

[AZBob]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 My car was so sloppy stock, I think I would've done more damage missing shifts than the full replacement combo'd with a ssp that I have in now. I don't drive my car as hard as some of you guys do, but there is no way I'm taking my TWM out and going back to that slop they call a shifter from Mazda.

Yeesh. The crisp shifting transmission was one of the main draws to this car for me. And after having totally destroyed a supposedly indestructible ZF transmission in another vehicle (destroyed the synchros in 1-4 gear, totally destroyed third gear itself), I have no desire to tempt fate with something less robust, so I keep this one stock and am happy with it. Sucks yours was so sloppy.

[eb2292]

Originally Posted by AZBob Yeesh. The crisp shifting transmission was one of the main draws to this car for me. And after having totally destroyed a supposedly indestructible ZF transmission in another vehicle (destroyed the synchros in 1-4 gear, totally destroyed third gear itself), I have no desire to tempt fate with something less robust, so I keep this one stock and am happy with it. Sucks yours was so sloppy.

... are you saying your transmission isn't sloppy?

[nycMS3]

Originally Posted by helmetface Wow that's cheap!

I had the E4 and it wasnt bad for the price, some issues with it but easy fix. I made a thread about the E4 sts, search my username and it should come.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by AZBob Yeesh. The crisp shifting transmission was one of the main draws to this car for me. And after having totally destroyed a supposedly indestructible ZF transmission in another vehicle (destroyed the synchros in 1-4 gear, totally destroyed third gear itself), I have no desire to tempt fate with something less robust, so I keep this one stock and am happy with it. Sucks yours was so sloppy.

Originally Posted by eb2292 ... are you saying your transmission isn't sloppy?

I guess it is relative compared to other cars, but for a sports car, the ms3 had the absolute worst shift feel of any manual sports car I've had.

[aggierandy]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I guess it is relative compared to other cars, but for a sports car, the ms3 had the absolute worst shift feel of any manual sports car I've had.

It really depends on your experiences. I recently had the opportunity to drive a pretty heavily modified 2010 Mustang (turbo, ~500 hp, etc.) The first thing I noted was how beautifully the Hurst shifter engaged. You just had to give it a nudge it and it almost shifted itself. Up until that point, I thought our shifter feel was pretty good.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by aggierandy It really depends on your experiences. I recently had the opportunity to drive a pretty heavily modified 2010 Mustang (turbo, ~500 hp, etc.) The first thing I noted was how beautifully the Hurst shifter engaged. You just had to give it a nudge it and it almost shifted itself. Up until that point, I thought our shifter feel was pretty good.

I think I may have been spoiled by some of my previous cars. You are totally right.

[kritz]

Originally Posted by aggierandy It really depends on your experiences. I recently had the opportunity to drive a pretty heavily modified 2010 Mustang (turbo, ~500 hp, etc.) The first thing I noted was how beautifully the Hurst shifter engaged. You just had to give it a nudge it and it almost shifted itself. Up until that point, I thought our shifter feel was pretty good.

Well I wish we had a pure mechanical linkage like that, it would be nice. Thinking outside the box now I wonder if it would be possible to have a closed hydraulic shifting mechanism. But I am sure that government regs want a more reliable failsafe system. Just a thought.

Sent from my frontal cortex.

[aggierandy]

Originally Posted by kritz Well I wish we had a pure mechanical linkage like that, it would be nice. Thinking outside the box now I wonder if it would be possible to have a closed hydraulic shifting mechanism. But I am sure that government regs want a more reliable failsafe system. Just a thought. Sent from my frontal cortex.

You build it, I'll test it! Deal?

RapaTapTap

[aggierandy]

Alright, you've got me thinking. Transfer the pressure with brake lines or similar. Some simple little pistons. You could control the throw with the diameter of the pistons in the shifter. Larger piston = shorter throw.

If it fails, hold the clutch, pull the car over and fix it. Not that dangerous really.

This thing could work.

RapaTapTap

[zatara]

Originally Posted by kritz Well I wish we had a pure mechanical linkage like that, it would be nice. Thinking outside the box now I wonder if it would be possible to have a closed hydraulic shifting mechanism. But I am sure that government regs want a more reliable failsafe system. Just a thought. Sent from my frontal cortex.

If you haven't submitted that as a product idea to CorkSport I am so stealing it and saying I came up with it.

[smr87]

A hydraulic system would be quite the challenge to keep in the semblance of a regular manual. Lots of heavy equipment use hydrostatic transmissions, but they are usually simple forward and reverse or only a couple of "gears". I'm far from an expert on such things but I believe they vary the pressure to deliver different drive ratios. Pretty cool but not very practical in a small sporty car.

Mechanical linkage ftw, I miss my old manuals.

[aggierandy]

Originally Posted by smr87 A hydraulic system would be quite the challenge to keep in the semblance of a regular manual. Lots of heavy equipment use hydrostatic transmissions, but they are usually simple forward and reverse or only a couple of "gears". I'm far from an expert on such things but I believe they vary the pressure to deliver different drive ratios. Pretty cool but not very practical in a small sporty car. Mechanical linkage ftw, I miss my old manuals.

What we are describing is not a hydraulic transmission, it's a hydraulic linkage. Push shifter, drives piston, piston drives fluid through cables, fluid drives piston at transmission, pushes transmission into gear. No more broken or stretched cables. No more clunky linkage. Now this isn't going to fix the crumby synchros, but it might be a better substitute for a mechanical linkage than the cables.

RapaTapTap

[AZBob]

Originally Posted by eb2292 ... are you saying your transmission isn't sloppy?

Yes? I also own a 400+hp (soon to be nearly 500 hopefully) Corvette that I (used to) race with a modified ZF (the aforementioned ZF that I had broken) that shifts like a toggle switch. My MS3 is definitely not that but I am very satisfied with the stock shift feel. Definitely better than my Corvette was stock. Just my opinion.

If you want to see a sloppy manual transmission, drive a VW. They feel like the shifter is a tower attached to a rubber band.

[chuckms6]

our shifter is sloppy because of the soft and loose rubber bushings on the cable ends. im debating cutting the existing linkage off and threading on heim joints, since no one makes solid bushings.

[kritz]

I thought they are made from nylon.

[Caveman4684]

So many people complain about the stock shifter feeling. What about the shitty spring loaded clutch? Now that I'm used to the feel it's not really a problem anymore and I actulally kind of like it, but it was one hell of a learning curve. My last three cars were a gen 2 miata, gen 2 STi, and my current pu. Best shifter feel, Miata, it felt like each gear had a vacuum that would suck the shifter in for you and then made satisfying mechanical noises. Best clutch feel, STi, it truly felt like a proper sports car clutch. The Mazda is a compromise of everyday use and performance. The shifter isn't virgin tight, but it's not sloppy as some describe. I should add that I only have 3k miles, maybe it gets worse?

I felt another pu with a SSP and while I did like the short throw, I didn't like how grindy it felt, you could hear it too. I think I would find myself missing downshifts, but again it's something I'd probably get used to.

My money will be spent on other mods.

[CWP_MS3]

I have 14k on my car now, and my car (thankfully) isn't showing any transmission related issues.

However, mine is not sloppy at all. I would describe it as being really picky though. You can feel that it doesn't want to go into gear at certain speeds, so I don't force it. Like 1st. I won't go into first unless I'm damn near at a dead stop. And 2nd acts like it doesn't want to play nice going into gear above 20. So when I pull back, and it feels like it doesn't want to go in, I don't force it, I just slow down. But the car has been like that since day 1.

I do notice that when its cold outside, going into 2nd feels off until it gets warm. You can feel it going into gear. It will go into gear, but its not the same smooth transition it is when the car is nice and warm. Instead of forcing it I double clutch the gears, which makes it shift as smooth as butter, until the trans fluid is warm and everything goes back to normal.

Now, when I got in Leon78's car to get a feel for the SSP before I put mine on (took it back off after 3 miles), his shifter felt as sloppy as a 10c prostitute's vagina, compared to my car. Granted he had dildo shifter, juan and SSP.

And FWIW, my buddy has a regular MZ3 with a fucked up 2nd gear. Everything on his car is completely stock.

[aggierandy]

Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 I have 14k on my car now, and my car (thankfully) isn't showing any transmission related issues. However, mine is not sloppy at all. I would describe it as being really picky though. You can feel that it doesn't want to go into gear at certain speeds, so I don't force it. Like 1st. I won't go into first unless I'm damn near at a dead stop. And 2nd acts like it doesn't want to play nice going into gear above 20. So when I pull back, and it feels like it doesn't want to go in, I don't force it, I just slow down. But the car has been like that since day 1.

I would describe mine very much the same way. Also, until I adjusted the cables, 3rd gear was difficult to get into with any speed at all. I now have the SSP on and its like a 2 step engagement. I pull the shifter, shifter moves then hits a wall for just a second (I assume this to be the synchros working) then falls into gear. I can push past the wall and force it into gear but it takes a good deal of force and seems unduly violent.

Originally Posted by Caveman4684 So many people complain about the stock shifter feeling. What about the shitty spring loaded clutch? Now that I'm used to the feel it's not really a problem anymore and I actually kind of like it, but it was one hell of a learning curve.

One thing I noticed about the aforementioned mustang, the clutch throw was about 3 inches at most, and there was almost no resistance. The engagement point was indiscernible and it may have been due to the engagement point being so high. Much different than the MS3 and more noticeable even than the shifter differences.

[Dano]

Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 However, mine is not sloppy at all. I would describe it as being really picky though. You can feel that it doesn't want to go into gear at certain speeds, so I don't force it. Like 1st. I won't go into first unless I'm damn near at a dead stop.

The owners manual states that "catastrophic" damage can occur if you try to put the car into 1st gear above like 15mph.

something to do with that syncro. but yes they are all that way and you do need to be damn near stopped to put it into 1st. Keep forcing it and you will lose first.

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by Dano The owners manual states that "catastrophic" damage can occur if you try to put the car into 1st gear above like 15mph. something to do with that syncro. but yes they are all that way and you do need to be damn near stopped to put it into 1st. Keep forcing it and you will lose first.

Yeah, forcing shit is never the way to go. LOL.

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Dano The owners manual states that "catastrophic" damage can occur if you try to put the car into 1st gear above like 15mph. something to do with that syncro. but yes they are all that way and you do need to be damn near stopped to put it into 1st. Keep forcing it and you will lose first.

Blip the throttle and it will go in but there really isn't any reason you should be going into 1st at those speeds anyway. This car has enough tq that it's pointless.

[Kyle Undefined]

I have the COBB STS and I experience no slop, I also have the stock knob.

[aggierandy]

I tend to downshift as I approach an unoccupied stop sign. It locks me out of first so I just put gentle pressure as I decelerate until it slips in (that's what she said). It is annoying though, I am not gonna let the clutch out at any significant speed. I have started to take off in second to avoid the nuisance.

RapaTapTap

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by aggierandy I tend to downshift as I approach an unoccupied stop sign. It locks me out of first so I just put gentle pressure as I decelerate until it slips in (that's what she said). It is annoying though, I am not gonna let the clutch out at any significant speed. I have started to take off in second to avoid the nuisance. RapaTapTap

As I said above, just blip the throttle and it should go in.

[aggierandy]

This may be useful to the conversation.



More available here:
http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/foru...1996-a-134715/

[Yatta]

Coming from a 98 VW cable shifted 5 speed which didn't feel precise or sloppy (it was a VR6) I can say that I found the gen2 MS3 shifter to be very precise and the throw substantially shorter, until I ran it through the gears hard/fast, the VW was what it was irregardless of effort (slow or fast driving) the MS3 has a lot of slop in it and I suspect its the factory motor mounts... my next upgrade will be the RMM, which I suspect will clear some of this up.