Good for First Teen Car? ...or too tempting?
 

So long story short. Shopping for my son (17 and 6'4"). Originally thought "get him a used POS, teach him humility, etc." Then, I started feeling more generous... Was shopping Mazda3s and found a very clean 2013 White MS3 w Tech Package 72k miles that I put a deposit on while I thought about it.

a. is this too much power for a teen?
b. is a manual a good idea? (teach how to really drive, less temptation to get on phone, etc.)
c. is $15k a fair price? (interior is spotless, exterior is cleanest used car I've see, after they fix a dent they are repairing this week before sale)

I am active on my forum for my car and find these forums more informative than anything else. Thanks.

I'm being 100% serious here. The MS3/MS6 is a terrible first car for a teen. It's too much performance, too much responsibility, and too much of a temptation.

a. yes
b. yes
c. depends on how molested the car has been in its 72k miles lifetime.

Cosign vansquish, can be alot of car for a teen.

Having that said if you want to anyway that price seems high, i paid 19k in 2014 for a 2012 with tech and only 15k miles. Manual i see no issue with, i learned on one.

I would sooner look for a 2014 mazda 3. Very nice car

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I would only give a Speed to a teenager if it had a permanent valet map flashed on the ECU...

As someone who totaled a Z32 at 17, after a whopping 8 months of owning it, no, do not get a teenager a 'performance' car. If you want to get him a fun car, that's relatively easy to work on, low on power, and still in the Mazda family. Look into 2nd Gen MX6s.

Whether or not it's too much power is quite frankly up to how responsible your son is. If you believe he is the kind that wouldn't respect the power, then yes it is. I bought this car when I was 18 and in my own personal opinion is not too much power (especially since while the torque steer is substantial, it's still much easier to control than a similar powered RWD). That being said I've been driving 400-550 hp cars since before I got me license, and I learned to respect what a car is capable of without being reckless. So, in that regard, it's up your judgment. Maintenance wise, I would say it's a must that the car has access to someone mechanically inclined. I'm not sure as much about second gen's, but simple fixes on my car like the shaft-pivot-seal, cv axles, struts, etc definitely required some effort and experience. As much as I hate to admit it, my car probably wouldn't have lasted had it not been for help from my family. Good luck.

I agree with all.
Buy him something that has already depreciated mostly. Let him drive it for 2 years and prove his respect for the machine....then get him something better.

You are the exception to the rule, not the rule. I know there are a few mature kids that can handle things, but far and away the majority could not handle the temptation of anything remotely sporty.

I agree completely with the others, buy something low on power, doesn't necessarily mean it can't be a fun car. I like the idea of making kids learn a manual, less temptation to text and drive. My first car was a Honda accord coupe with a manual, worked out alright for me.

It all completely depends on your son. When I was 17 I bought a 1998 Pontiac Firebird Formula with the LS1 V8. Then when I was 19 I bought a new 2012 Mazdaspeed 3 for better gas mileage. So I don't believe they have too much power for a teen, but that's just because I started myself higher and worked my way down haha.


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I understand this. I agree with the fact that it would be too much for the majority of teenagers. I am not trying to establish my case as a rule, but rather quite the opposite. I am attempting to discredit a blanket rule that something is/is not okay for a population. Whether or not it's a good car for a teenager is in and of itself a faulty question. I will say that there's an objective answer in terms of maintenance but not much else. I agree that I am unlike most teenagers in this regard, but that's the point. Who's to say his son isn't too? The parents; they know their son far better than we do. I believe it's downright ignorant to try to say this car is too much for teenagers even though it holds true for the majority. My whole point is that it depends on the very much subjective judgment of the parent which will not be found on an online forum.

I mirror many of the opinions stated, it comes down to your son. My father bought me an older 5.0 Mustang for my 16th.it was worth $500 and we repaired it into a respectable car with 250 (dyno) hp. He made it abundantly clear if I fucked that car up I was back on a bicycle everywhere, which that was a long ride to school/practices etc. He made me pay for oil and filters out of allowance and paid for one tank of gas a month (I got about 10 mpg city), rest was on me.

I've since sold the car and bought the speed at 21. I respect the speed the same and like the Mustang rarely go wot despite bt and 400hp temptation.

Like others have said I'm probably the exception, maybe your son is too and will appreciate it. Maybe he'll total it after a couple hoonagin shenanigans and torque steer into a pole. It's a judgement call.

Thanks all... he is super conservative and attentive while driving... just off a year of his preliminary license and recently flying solo in our Ford Explorer.

I am coming from the viewpoint of a 500+hp as my daily so my calibration of "what is too fast" maybe a little off.

I am comfortable flashing ECUs and would also like to know if there is a home tuning option where I can lower the speed limiter to say 65 or so. If there is a favorite tuner of the forum that allows that, please let me know.

I don't think he'd be stupid now, but after 6 months or so... who knows... I wanted to test my parent's cars eventually when I was young... but "70 in a no one around 45" was maybe my worst as a teen. Currently he has no need to get on a highway even to visit friends. Its all back rounds to drive to school each day.

I'm trying to be objective, hear all viewpoints and not make a final call until Wed night after I've seen some more basic M3s that appear to be in good shape.

As for price, I searched Autotrader wide open to the whole country and the price seemed the far below anything I could find for a 2013... and it's white, which I think works great on this car and makes it a tad less "Hi Officer..."

So in my test drive, I did get on it a little (after the "25 years away from a manual" wore off.
I did notice the pull to the right and suddenly remembered torque steer... totally forgot about that after having either rear or 4WD cars for the same 25 years...

I found it oddly exciting... the car really is fun to drive... felt very connected to car and road.

It's an awesome car. If i was your son i would be looking for everyone on this forum who cock blocked, me included.

Have you looked at the tuners yet?

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I'm 19 and bought my MS3 as my second car but first car I actually owned. IMO it is not a great car for a real first car. Learning to drive manual as early as possible is always a good idea, but the combination of learning manual and driving a fast and exciting car like the MS3 can be dangerous. I know I was glad to drive my 2002 volvo s80 for a few years to learn how to drive responsibly and get experienced on the road. Like everyone has said though you know your son best and the MS3 is a fantastic car.

Another way to look at it, do you want your kid learning on a car with a $1K minimum clutch/flywheel replacement? Maybe that's not an issue for you, but something to mull over.

I guess we never asked if your kid is a gear head? Is he going to see this as a commuter that can easily overtake that annoying Camry going 5 under the speedlimit, or is he making an account on this site as we speak making a laundry list of go fast parts to make mad skids with?

LOL at these young guys thinking that at 19-21 they've past the "young and dumb" years. No offense to any of you, but some of the biggest mistakes of my life came after 21.


@dogtag114; - the car can be neutered via tune. There are a few very talented tuners in the vendor section, or used to at least. You could consult one of them about a tuning solution, or ask some of the knowledgeable self-tuners here to help out with a map or direction on tuning it yourself.

My son is not a gear head, but now becoming interested in engineering as a major... we looked up how an engine worked... what a turbo does, etc. He seems very interested.

...and I agree on the 20s thing... that's where I made mistakes.

My "first" car was an MkV GTI. "First" being that I learned on and drove the family van for about a year before my dad bought the GTI. My father being the gearhead he is will never admit this but in retrospect he knows he made a bit of a mistake in giving me the GTI with little restrictions. That summer my family learned a few things about their adopted asian son: Just as I was fulfilling the stereotype of being good at math, I was laying the groundwork for the character Han in fast and the furious. Ok, I wasn't drifting everywhere but I did speed. A lot. My first ticket came about 2 hours after leaving the dealership. I wasn't doing 120 on the highway but if there was a familiar stretch of road that was open, I was gunning it. I remember distinctly hitting 85 and thinking I was a bad motherfucker.

Speed platform is well above the GTI in the stock power department and I would say I got lucky on a few occasions. The potential is there and if there is potential at some point your son is going to push it. I'm not saying he's gonna try and do 120 on the highway for S's and G's but he will push it to some degree because that's what teenagers do. Only you know your son though so only you know what he's really capable of. My father knew I was going to speed but he also spent a lot of time with me behind the wheel growing up so he felt confident that I was able to handle the GTI. I also had that fear of "if I wreck this car my father is going to kick my ass soo fucking hard I'll end up back in Korea" so maybe its just a question of instilling some good old fashion ass kicking fear?

So TL;DR: Only you know your son so only you are really going to know if the Speed3 offers too much potential to do something stupid. The speed3 is a great car but can also be a death sentence to someone who isn't prepared for it.

As far as how hard it may have been driven, may only noted mods were:

an engine strut bar

a possible turbo change... is a blue "Cobb" turbo stock?

Do you have any pictures? Or links to an ad that has pictures?

Cobb doesn't make a turbo. They do make a blue turbo inlet pipe (intake). A actual blue turbo would likely indicate a heavily modified car, since it'd have likely been powder coated blue.

I think this platform is too much car for a teenager.

Manual is always good for a teenager to learn on. All my friends that drive stick are much better drivers than others that can't.

Ok... it's a blue inlet pipe... thx

Is there anything specific I should look for as a red flag?

Look see if it has a down pipe. Fuel pump internals are a must on these cars and an upgraded downpipe with fuel pump internals is bad

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Without fuel pump internals not with*

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I got you.

I think the biggest mistake for me wasn't the choice of car, but the lack of venue for driving like an asshole.

I feel like some track time or off-public-roads driver education should mandatory for hormone-addled teens. Regardless of what car they drive.

Look for bolts that have been obviously removed/replaced. Get some pics and report back. Sounds like your knowledgeable enough to be able to tell if something has been tampered with, but not necessarily know what it is or what the consequences could be. We can help better point out what may have been done to the car of we see it. It's common for us to remove parts from the car and return it to stock or close to stock conditions before selling. You'll want to avoid a car that was run on the ragged edge prior to stock out and or sale.

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I looked for over spray, parts with uneven wear (head lights are best there).

Only suspicious part from top was this inlet.

There was a big dent 8" across on the back left fender between the wheel well and the tail light that they said they're body shop would fix this week. It was odd. Little scrape but a dent like andre the giant with foam green Hulk gloves would make.

"If" I get past the decision for my son, I'll get it on a lift and check the under carriage.

Now that I think about it, it was sitting low. I have a pic but can't figure that out yet from phone on this forum.

Post the image to Imgur and and post that direct link.

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An odd Andre the giant dent on the quarter panel and sitting low could be failed attempt at removing bad aftermarket suspension parts that have rusted or something. Check bolts and hose clamps on top of the motor for signs of use/misplacment. A compression test prior to purchase really should be a must do as well.

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Here are the only pics I took...

Removing that TMIC cover, the shroud in the majority of the second picture, would help you see more. It's two 10am bolts to remove it. Specifically look at the 3 torx bit bolts on the high pressure fuel pump housing. It will be towards the firewall end of the solid black part of the shroud on the drivers side of the car. Look there and back behind that shroud at the heatsheilds covering the exhaust manifold and turbo. Those are big indicators of certain mods.

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Where are you located? I see the Jersey plate in there

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If you see any suspension bits that aren't black, it's not stock.

I'm pretty sure all aftermarket springs are yellow, red, blue, etc.

I'm pretty sure all non-OE replacement dampers are yellow, orange, bare metal, etc.

The only exception I think of is rear swaybars, there are a few aftermarket bars that are black. If the bar doesn't look like a bent round bar of steel, it's not stock. If the bar has multiple holes at the end, it's not stock.

Thankfully, there's not a ton to be done to the suspension on these cars, so if it doesn't drive retarded, or look retarded sitting- it's probably fine.

I'd spend more time looking at the engine bay. These engines are not cheap to rebuild or replace.

This is in Cherry Hill NJ...

I'm open to a forum member meeting me there lol...

I'll buy lunch and you drive the AMG to the diner :naughty:

I was just in williamstown this weekend, dad having triple bypass at Cooper. I would've checked it out for you had i known. I might be back this weekend i would be willing to if you wanted me too.

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And you can drive a small big turbo ms3.

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Clearly I am really satisfying the hole in my life that my automatic has created. I want to get him a car I want to borrow occasionally apparently.

Depending when the body work is done... if I go this route... I might seek your services...

They took down the vehicle but I just found it here on the VIN search...

2013 Mazda MAZDASPEED3 Touring - JM1BL1L49D1797272, For Sale - $14,995 | BestRide.com

One engine bay shot but can't tell much from the photo.

QFT

So per VersaTune...

You can create a fully custom "teen" tune. The Valet tune would be a good starting point. It has speed, rpm, and power limiters.

So remind me why I'd buy this just to detune it?
... or is this a great... let's make this a project together and you earn power as you earn skills and knowledge thing...?

You buy this so you can create a "teen" tune in case you feel it needed for your son, then also create a "Dad borrowed the car again" tune with a bit more fun in it for you.

All and all its a great car, it does require some maintenance, but driving an amg you're probably accustomed to it.

What other car for that price do you get navigation, blindspot monitoring, and bose stereo? Plus the potential to take the car to 400hp pretty easily.
I would also consider a civic si for sporty fun but anything else, gti, focus st, etc the ms3 wins out imo.

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A back up camera... and a... cough cough... temperature gauge would be nice.

actually you can install an backup camera to the stock MS3 Radio if you have the tech package and also only available in 2013 version.

So much this, lol. I just turned 29 and am just entering a quasi-mature state. At a minimum I think 25 is realm of becoming more responsible, look at the insurance industry, your premiums start to drop at that age. Coincidence? I think not.

You can monitor Coolant temps via an Accessport, Versatune, or there are a few other options to monitor via a tablet or phone. Oil temp you would need to install a sensor and gauge.

I started off in a 1994 Acura legend GS sedan, and yes I tested to see if it was electronically limited to 155 mph, and indeed it is.


YMMV

I would get a Mazda 2 for the first car. You can drive it full throttle everywhere, get good mileage and never go fast enough to hurt anyone. Just ask Matt

Good advice. I'd be dead if I was given a "fast" car as a teen. Let him gradually build up to something. I started with a Protege5, which like a Mazda2, you could flog and barely break the speed limit all while staying alive.

Mmmm...
No. Underpowered cars can get you in plenty of trouble.

IMO the best predictor of responsible teen driving is maturity and experience.

There are individual differences in the starting levels of maturity and experience for new drivers, but thankfully both those things can be learned.

Not even the safest, most underpowered car can guarantee an immature driver won't have problems.

More guidance and oversight will be needed for a higher performance vehicle, but there isn't a vehicle you can buy that negates the need for supervision.

I agree with underpowered cars being dangerous. My girlfriend has a 2001 Focus that's abysmally slow and it scares me because you can't get out of trouble if you need to.

Thanks all for the feedback.

My rational mind final kicked in.

Closing on a 2011 s model today with leather, Bose etc... 55k miles and very clean.

^ :popcorn:

Read the post above you. Then read the rules.

Good call OP.

It should also be noted with these vehicles....they're pretty robust, but there are several maneuvers that like to send the rods through the block with relative ease. So a N/A option for a first car is definitely the best choice IMO. Plus he will actually get some decent fuel economy!

I thought I could add my take to my experience at least:

I got my license at the age of 17 because I took basic test late and you have to wait 6 months to take the full test. I started driving alone at almost the age of 18 because my mom was paranoid.

She bought a automatic 2011 Ford Fiesta(even when she agreed to get a manual) for me and my sister, but I would drive it 99% of the time. I would "hyper mile" (55mph) with the cruise control button on in city traffic (50mph limit) and cut off everyone in my way. The car was thin and the front bumper was flat so I would almost ram the front of my car to the one if front of me and cut off the guy in the side lanes all the time so I could maintain 55mph all the time.

I would regularly do 70 in all the 50 zones and do 90mph in 65 zone highways) but would never floor the car because I thought WOT = bad, so I would feather foot the car when taking off a light and not really merge properly at all.

It wasn't untill my step-dad totaled his car and I decided I would trade him if he got me a manual car(like I always wanted). He agreed to the deal except the car had to be a Mazda. I got the Mazdaspeed 6 at age 19 and learned to drive stick in it. It was this car that taught me that WOT = good, lol. I would shit myself everytime till I got used to it, but I found myself driving 50mph at the speed limit all the time and not cutting anyone off because the front was long and the car was wide.



I did get into an accident at age 21 when overtaking on a narrow 2 lane backr-road but It was just side mirror damage because the car was too wide and I didn't measure. The accident has made me more cautious and responsible driving and the turbo has motivated me to maintain, mod and learn about cars both mechanically and how to drive properly.

*TL:DR*: I do regularly go on "top speed runs" when the road is empty (130mph+) but I do it responsible and never cut-off nor pass cars and "unreasonable speeds". I drive more safe/responsibly in the Mazdaspeed 6 that I even did with the 2011 Ford Fiesta.