Hard Cold Starts - Injector Seals?
 

Since I bought my 2011 MS3 with 62k miles it would have an occasional hard start. That meaning, it would crank a bit longer than normal after sitting long enough to cool down.

Here's a video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGSK6KnoBXk


It runs pretty well otherwise, a few hiccups at idle from time to time. I installed new NGK plugs somewhat recently and the issue was unaffected. Even if I let the pump prime before starting it doesn't seem to make a difference. The only other mods are JBR Intake/TIP and Ebay test pipe.

It's progressively gotten worse and worse. I definitely will be doing the valve cleaning service with walnut blasting soon. I have the gun and walnuts and just need to get the rest of the stuff. But is this problem usually attributed to leaking injector seals? I've also read about using Toyota seals and replacing the fuel rail bolts with studs. Not sure that's common practice or what.


I figured I would knock this out while doing the valve cleaning because why not. I also was looking at the JBR thermal insulating intake gasket, it seems like a nifty little piece - Thermal Insulating Intake Gasket Kit [MS3-IN-IG] - $45.00 : James Barone Racing, Aftermarket Performance

But before I set my heart on this stuff fixing my starting issue, is there anything else I should be looking at? I did a log recently and fuel pressure never dips below 1600psi during a 3rd gear pull. I've read that this is good, but probably doesn't relate to my starting issue. I could log a startup, too if that would help. Thanks for any input!

What did you gap your plugs to?

Also logs of startup and idle may be beneficial.

They were all .028-.030

I'll grab a log as soon as possible.

I had the exact thing happened last winter and it ended up being my EGR stuck open a bit. I then did an EGR bypass and everything was fine again.

Ahh that's one I haven't considered yet, interesting! I'd think this would throw a CEL though, no?

I would love to do an EGR delete but don't have an AP quite yet to get rid of the code.

You could always take the EGR tube and valve out and clean them, sometimes you can resurrect EGR valves this way but not always. I will say though that an accessport is worth it! you may want to save your cash on the insulating gaskets as you're going to be putting hot exhaust through your intake anyway with the EGR system still in place.

As far as a stuck-open EGR throwing codes, it does happen, but it has to be really bad for it to happen.

I'll definitely try cleaning. I should have plenty of leftover B-12 from the valve cleaning to use on the EGR.

AccessPort and fuel pump internals are coming sooner than later for sure. I'll be storing the car in Winter but would like this all done, and to have a good tune on er' before I put it away :)

Mine didn't throw a code when it failed, it just wouldn't start. I'd crank and nothing, and then I'd try again and it would start right up. It was a hard problem to chase down since I haven't seen others post about it.

Try unplugging the harness going into the primary EGR solenoid. That will be the quickest cheap way to disengage the EGR system. If that is the cause of the problem you can leave it off and buy a full EGR delete kit down the line.

Yeah there are days where I don't think it's going to start - It cranks for 3-4 seconds then finally catches and runs like nothing is wrong.

FistPump - I'll give that a shot! Good call.

Attached is a startup log I just took. It cranked a while, so this should be a decent log if anyone wants to take a gander. I'm still learning this Torque app, so I just threw everything it let me into the log and deleted the stuff from the spreadsheet that seemed irrelevant.

I'm starting to worry less about injector seals, though. From what I've been reading it seems those would cause a lot more problems while driving, too.

The disconnecting of the EGR didn't work for me as it was lodged open. I just removed the tube and did a partial delete. I'll shut the CEL off eventually.

But yeah, that's totally the EGR. 100% EGR. Had the same exact thing happen to me. Might wanna do something soon'ish because my intake manifold went from being clean to completely covered in soot.

Oh lovely :), thanks for the input. I'll just order up the block off kit now, and source a used AP v2. Slightly concerned about Wisconsin emissions being cranky about a "not ready" result for the EGR, so I'll do some research on that.

we saw that trouble here in Québec because of the bad fuel quality......look for a drop of gaz pressur when your car is park.....look like an injector leek. You can look for wet top piston by your plug hole.

That startup log is pretty limited because of the 1hz resolution I only spotted about 3 cells for the startup and nothing looks too out of whack to me. looks like your lpfp is doing just fine and fuel pressure is coming up during cranking which should eliminate fueling issues. its sounding fairly certain that the egr system is stuck open.

Another cheap thing to try if you feel inclined would be to cut your own egr block off "gasket". I had a toyota pickup in a similar situation with an EGR valve I suspected to be leaking so I used some scissors and cut a gasket out of an aluminum can but didn't cut a hole in the middle for the exhaust gasses to go through. Fixed the startup and idling issue. You should be able to do the same by making a pop can gasket for the flange on the egr tube that mates to the head.

You would still end up with codes for insufficient EGR flow but you could be certain about it before ordering parts.

Update on this -

I ripped it apart last weekend to clean valves. I also did the EGR block off/delete. It runs great now, and starts up as it should! No hesitation. Thanks for all of the help.

Thought I attached a picture to this. Here's a before and after to convince everyone else to do it!