HPFP vs Stock Tuning

[sheldonross]

A Member on another forum posted this.

"I just called CP-E regarding their HPFP (back-ordered for a week and a half) and had an interesting conversation with an engineer. He said that no one needs this fuel pump unless they are doing extensive tuning/bolt-ons. I gave him my project list (same from this forum/thread) and he said that I do not need this at all (even with my hefty list of mods). He said that a ton of people come to them and say they are getting crappy Psi on the stock FP after mods/tuning, and even after installing the CP-E HPFP, they still have crappy FP Psi. He said most of the time it is due to bad hex tuning on the Access Port by inexperienced tuning shops. As a result, no fuel pump will correct incorrect tuning. So he basically told me to skip it, but then he said if I am doing all of this work and dropping near $5,000, then what's another grand before core refund for the top of the line HPFP and peace of mind? LOL"


I don't want to start another CP-E flame war, but I'm really curious as to the merits of this.

How would incorrect tuning result in FP PSI drop? Overfueling? I would assume COBB has a pretty good idea what the stock pump is capable of.

So the big question is the CP-E guy full of shit? Why would he come up with that excuse if someone calls up looking after a $1000 sale?



edit: I wonder if he's just referring to the ability to do a "safe mode" tune like COBB does for people with a stock pump?

[wolly6973]

Here's what usually goes down...
Do intake + another mod or 2
Get AP & notice your frp sucks
Get new fp, change nothing on AP, and frp is fixed...

I have a hard time believing that all of the frp issues are caused by the AP...

[R.MS3]

There's some truth to what he said but he's of course trying to favor Cp-e on this.

The major cause of bad FP after an AP tune are overboost situations or crazy AFR's. I just fixed a guy's tune that thought he had a bad pump when all he had was some overboost. It's something easily fixed if you take the time to learn tuning by yourself, get help from somebody for an e-tune, or have a pro-tune.

It its true that 10+ MS3's have a bigger problem with the pumps failing to get good pressure after light mods or an AP tune because boost is raised.

[sellers]

hahaahahahahahahahahaha

[Snotrocket]

How can anyone say a fuel pump isnt required with these logs prior to HPFP?

[rtabagaboy]

What is your list of 'mods'? And yes i think the tune can make the fuel pressure worse than it needs to be... IE if you pump is on the hairy edge a lean tune could make it stay up and good and a rich tune could cause it to drop...... I think this is the case.

[rfinkle2]

Here are some facts..

Stage 0 map = stock mode = fuel pressure commanded = 1669 psi
Stage 1 map =fuel pressure commanded = 1669 psi

If anything, the stage 1 map leans the car out @ wot, as can be seen in the commanded afr's @ wot, stock mode vs stage 1

Leaner mixture = less fuel...

I've seen logs from people with as little as an intake dip into the 800 psi area.

[Snotrocket]

stock tune, intake, tip, TIH and TBE were my mods in that log

[Snotrocket]

This is after installing internals... Still running stock tune.. Night and day... HPFP REQUIRED even with just an intake + DP

Edit: yes i realize i was running super rich.. All sorted out.

[G26]

Looks like its time for an Ultra gauge and then maybe some internals.

[EvilMonkey]

I am experiencing a little cut and not even in high rpm's. Feels like the ecu is compensating like it says on COBB's site. It's a slight stumble, like if I let off the gas for a split second.

[LakeSTLMS3]

Originally Posted by EvilMonkey I am experiencing a little cut and not even in high rpm's. Feels like the ecu is compensating like it says on COBB's site. It's a slight stumble, like if I let off the gas for a split second.

I get that same feeling in 4th gear once in awhile. It never occurs at WOT only at part throttle....weird???

[EvilMonkey]

Originally Posted by LakeSTLMS3 I get that same feeling in 4th gear once in awhile. It never occurs at WOT only at part throttle....weird???

Yep, thats it!!! That is the computer overcompensating for the fuel pump (I believe). I read this on Cobb's site for the AP and FP upgrade for stage 2.

[Smily27]

I've noticed my car not running as rich as before. After all my exhaust troubles l, I'm just running the ur cbe and stage 1. Will I have to post some logs? Or can someone give me a quick explanation on why my richness is down? Mod list below

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[EvilMonkey]

on stage 1...mods in sig, I am running rich as shit. My hatch has carbon all over it.

[G26]

Originally Posted by EvilMonkey on stage 1...mods in sig, I am running rich as shit. My hatch has carbon all over it.

Mods in sig also, carbon all over my tail pipes and hatch.

[KusteLokal]

Hmmm just a quick question, i have sure sri and a magnaflow cbe. Should i be getting a FP? i have a dash hawk and i dont see my fuel psi dropping

[AegisKlein]

So please explain the problem with replacing internals/pump? From everything that I've read, there is no danger in this mod, as it can only help.

Why even discuss this topic....mindless chatter.

[G26]

Originally Posted by EvilMonkey Yep, thats it!!! That is the computer overcompensating for the fuel pump (I believe). I read this on Cobb's site for the AP and FP upgrade for stage 2.

My question would be, why is the ecu having to overcompensate for the fuel pump at lower rpm/lower load situations when the fuel pressure issue seems to be high rpm, WOT full boost related. Next mod is an ultragauge so I can see wtf is going on here and make sure my fuel pressure is alright.

[sheldonross]

Originally Posted by AegisKlein So please explain the problem with replacing internals/pump? From everything that I've read, there is no danger in this mod, as it can only help. Why even discuss this topic....mindless chatter.

Sweet should I give you the address where you can send a $300 check for the internals? or 1000 for the full pump?

[Smily27]

Originally Posted by AegisKlein So please explain the problem with replacing internals/pump? From everything that I've read, there is no danger in this mod, as it can only help. Why even discuss this topic....mindless chatter.

I'll pm my address as well, $1000 towards a new fmic would be great. Search douche

tapa that ass!!!

[802MS3]

there was a reason that was "posted on another forum".

its because its a bunch of bullshit. if you are modding, especially a genpu, upgrade the goddamn fuel pump.

[AegisKlein]

Again, mindless chatter.

Replace your fuel pump or don't, I don't care. Just don't waste our time with stupid threads asking the same damn question that's been discussed in a million other threads.

If you're worried about $300, then stock out your car and sell your performance parts. Then your stock pump will work just fine, and be sufficient for your car.

[sheldonross]

Originally Posted by opt_ms3 there was a reason that was "posted on another forum".

Either that or the OFOP doesn't have the patience to deal with a forum full of flaming douches who'd rather post

OMGFZRR!!! SEARCHORZ NOOBS!! DONATE FAGGOTS!! OMG HOWS YOU NOT KNOWS THIS! IMA FUCKING MS3 FORUM MASTERS I NOZE ALL AND YOU ARE TEH STUPIDS!!!

Than help or actually at least point someone in the right direction.

And the post was actually about the CP-E statement so it doesn't really matter what forum it was posted in ...douche

[802MS3]

the fuck are you babbling about

[sellers]

Originally Posted by sheldonross Either that or the OFOP doesn't have the patience to deal with a forum full of flaming douches who'd rather post OMGFZRR!!! SEARCHORZ NOOBS!! DONATE FAGGOTS!! OMG HOWS YOU NOT KNOWS THIS! IMA FUCKING MS3 FORUM MASTERS I NOZE ALL AND YOU ARE TEH STUPIDS!!! Than help or actually at least point someone in the right direction. And the post was actually about the CP-E statement so it doesn't really matter what forum it was posted in ...douche

what the fuck are you on about with your 17 posts?

[sheldonross]

Point proven...

[sellers]

Originally Posted by sheldonross Point proven...

gtfo then pussy

[adlpb]

Lol @ being groaned at in 10 times after 18 posts.

[802MS3]

OP is a faggot

[guitarist302008]

Originally Posted by sheldonross Either that or the OFOP doesn't have the patience to deal with a forum full of flaming douches who'd rather post OMGFZRR!!! SEARCHORZ NOOBS!! DONATE FAGGOTS!! OMG HOWS YOU NOT KNOWS THIS! IMA FUCKING MS3 FORUM MASTERS I NOZE ALL AND YOU ARE TEH STUPIDS!!! Than help or actually at least point someone in the right direction. And the post was actually about the CP-E statement so it doesn't really matter what forum it was posted in ...douche

agreed... this is a pretty shitty forum and the mods should be ashamed of themselves for letting these "people" on here act like 12 year olds who can't simply just give an answer or STFU... really it IS that simple people... if you have nothing decent to say... just keep your mouth shut.

Originally Posted by sellers gtfo then pussy

says the guy with another guy in his avatar... fuckin homo lol

[Post pwned]

[guitarist302008]

Originally Posted by Post pwned

oh my! You must be extremely educated based on that post lol

[wolly6973]

Originally Posted by guitarist302008 Oh my! You must be extremely educated based on that post lol.

fixed

[Post pwned]

Originally Posted by guitarist302008 oh my! You must be extremely educated based on that post lol

Thank you sir!

Your comebacks are extremely weak.
It's the fucking Internet take some time to think of something meaner, I wanna see the rage faggot!

Also very sorry for making fun of your boyfriend...

[mazdaspdmike]

I acted like this once, when I was new here. Hence my 10 groans after 8 posts. Those are all from the first month I was on this site. Before I realized that these guys don't tell you to learn to search for nothing. They tell you to donate because donating is a kind of insurance, it's like saying okay, I've invested in this site, it's supposed to be fucking full of win, now let me have my slice of cake.

I donated, and it was probably the most useful $10 I've ever spent. It opens you up to a lot less flaming, a lot less ridicule, and a lot more useful information. Anyone can join a free forum (this is free too, donating is an option) and get bullshit answers from bullshit members, but when you pay your dues here, you get straight answers from good guys who know their shit about our car.

Don't for a minute think that you're in league with these guys, holding your own in an online argument doesn't mean shit... these guys have the knowledge you want, don't push them away with your faggot ass arguments and resorting to personal attacks like calling them homos just for their avatar... that doesn't phase guys who make those cracks themselves every day just for fun.

This forum is unlike any other... the mods moderate stupid threads like this, they let the guys have their fun because they know at the end of the day, the information is what needs to be moderated, not behavior.

Learn to search, donate, and make some fucking contribution you faggot.

[silvapain]

There are three way the AP can be requiring more fuel from the CDFP/HPFP:

1. Higher rail pressures. This was proven in this thread already not to be the case.

2. Lower AFR's. Again, proven not the case.

3. Higher boost levels. More air = more fuel. To see if this is the case, a GenPu owner needs to post up load/boost tables for the stage 1 and stock maps.

My guess is that the AP alone isn't the problem.

Edit: Oh, and brownies need to learn the fuckin' pecking order around here. Kevin>Rodrigo/mods>members>brownies.


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[Jspeedy]

I am currently running a higher flow top mount IC, TIP and a SRI with the AP- Running a stage 2 tune designed for mods similar to what I have. I stay well over 1700 PSI at WOT and AFR is a bit rich 9.6 to 10.4 at WOT. I was really concerned about the fuel pump given all the info and data. But its the stock HPFP and no issues. My car is a 2012 I hear that the pumps are like hit or miss stock.. Perhaps mazda took note of this? I dunno. What are your thoughts?

[bigriver]

Originally Posted by Jspeedy I am currently running a higher flow top mount IC, TIP and a SRI with the AP- Running a stage 2 tune designed for mods similar to what I have. I stay well over 1700 PSI at WOT and AFR is a bit rich 9.6 to 10.4 at WOT. I was really concerned about the fuel pump given all the info and data. But its the stock HPFP and no issues. My car is a 2012 I hear that the pumps are like hit or miss stock.. Perhaps mazda took note of this? I dunno. What are your thoughts?

Internals are the same. No reason for Mazda to change them. If I were you I wouldnt do any more wot runs without upgrading. My fp hit 1900s easy on Stage 2.

[Jspeedy]

Originally Posted by bigriver Internals are the same. No reason for Mazda to change them. If I were you I wouldnt do any more wot runs without upgrading. My fp hit 1900s easy on Stage 2.

As far as what I see the desired pump PSI is 1750 for this tune.. I may be wrong However given the system I should be fine is I stay at that yes?. It sometimes spikes at 1800+ Kinda new the the DI engines. So I would like to hear everyones Opinion. In the end the more fuel the better. However If My AFR is good/on the rich side then I would assume all is well. For now lol.