I traded it in.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by SpdDemon89 im not worried about the ringland issue. i know what its from and it would have been fixed. but im going for a wrx now since i really dont want the payment of the sti. not worth it imho. i dont like the short gears of the sti either. basically i just dropped 3-4k in the speed 3, and to be able to do that i would have to get the wrx. anywho, i still gotta get rid of this G6 my sister has. if not, fuck it ill buy that from her and have a small ass payment

I don't think anyone can say definitively what is causing the STI's ringland issues. People can say pre-det or razor thin tolerances in the pistons but the fact remains that the ringland issue lies heavily with the STI and rarely with the WRX. Both are 2.5 liters and share nearly identical turbos. The only way to "fix" a broken ringland is to rebuild the engine. Hence why I advised against buying a new one. 36k + 5k for a new engine is a ton of money for a 4 cylinder econobox.

I agree though that the STI is not worth the extra money when you honestly have to be a very good driver on a track to find the performance gain of the STI. Besides EVO>STI at that price. The WRX is much cheaper and in my opinion the best all-arounder in the mid to upper 20's price range.

[327whp]

Almost all of the ringland issues are coming from cylinder 4 so this shouldn't be as hard as Subaru is making it to correct.

Also if you plan on modding a lot to a WRX/STI then yes the WRX is the better car to buy as you can get a lot more out of it for the $8-$10k less depending on model but the 5 speed in the WRX sucks with a lot more power added so you'll pretty much want to do a STI 6 speed swap anyways as that tranny is a lot better. The EVO's are much better then either of these platforms and are much easier and cheaper to mod out and get gobs of power. Most importantly, there is nothing like running 40 pounds of boost in an EVO which your not gonna do in a Suby but the Suby sound can't be matched either by an EVO. I love them both but if I was buying new it would've been an EVO IF they weren't gonna stop making them which they are so that hurts the EVO.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by darkrune First off :gives bandaid: this is for your hurt butt. Secondly those parts cost roughly 1200$ plus whatever tune you paid for. You have no exhaust pieces whatsoever which means you have stock cats. That being said, you are telling me you have a miracle machine that makes 290 BHP on simply a AP and Intake as power mods? So let's really do the math here. You paid 1400$ 600 for AP, 400 for internals, 250 for SRI TIP, and 100-200 dollars for a tune. Secondly the reason you make more torque is because of displacement. The Evo has a 4B11T motor that is 2.0L and the MS3 has a MZR DISI 2.3L. In a forced induction vehicle that amount of displacement difference makes for a lot of torque. The reason Mitsubishi did not go for more displacement is because 2.0L was the standard for rally racing as a limitation (subaru also makes a 2.0 engine in Japan for rallying, but brought the 2.5L to the Americas). Thirdly I average 20 MPG on a daily basis with a combination of city and highway driving. Let's look at my set-up. TBE 800$ Cobb SRI 165$ Cobb 3 port 110$ DynoTune 300$. That is 1375 dollars for an increase of 85-90 HP over stock. The reason I spent more money is because I wanted gauges installed and not have to do it myself, because my burned arm and hand can't fit in small places and doesn't work as well as a normal one. So that cost me around 500 dollars all said and done. Don't forget now, I owned a MS3 and did some good things with it, so I know that with your mods and tune you are putting down 250-260 BHP maximum. I think you are just an Evo hater, which is fine, but at least don't have false information and shitty logic about fuel economy to hate on them.

No no. I no but hurt at all.
Maybe you?
Anyway. Tp=test pipe=exhaust piece=second cat delete.
I got my ap and internals bnib from ptp for 835 shipped.
The test pipe was $80 used, and I won my sure intake in a raffle here.
My tune was free.
And no. Not 290bhp. 280whp.
I average 30mpg with combined city/highway.
It's not that I forget you owned an ms3, I just have no clue who you are or what good things you did with it.
The car makes 263bhp from the factory bud.
How's you bum feeling now?

[SpdDemon89]

i drove an hour and a half to get a wrx on hold for me. some other idiot sold it.....


im sure he said "wow its already to go, maybe its not for hold......"

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by 327whp Almost all of the ringland issues are coming from cylinder 4 so this shouldn't be as hard as Subaru is making it to correct. Also if you plan on modding a lot to a WRX/STI then yes the WRX is the better car to buy as you can get a lot more out of it for the $8-$10k less depending on model but the 5 speed in the WRX sucks with a lot more power added so you'll pretty much want to do a STI 6 speed swap anyways as that tranny is a lot better. The EVO's are much better then either of these platforms and are much easier and cheaper to mod out and get gobs of power. Most importantly, there is nothing like running 40 pounds of boost in an EVO which your not gonna do in a Suby but the Suby sound can't be matched either by an EVO. I love them both but if I was buying new it would've been an EVO IF they weren't gonna stop making them which they are so that hurts the EVO.

Well I am sure the ringland issues will be fixed in the new 2.0 turbos but for the STI 2.5 its been a major issue. With the WRX you can get to 350-380whp cheaper and easier than just about any other 4 cylinder turbo on the market including the EVO. Anything above that and the reliability of the WRX's engine and transmission come into question. I agree though if I had 37k I would have bought an EVO. At 27k the new WRX is the best bang for the buck in that price range.

[darkrune]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Hmm. I'm making 40 less hp, but 40 more lb/ft with less than a grand in mods (ap, internals, Sri and tp). And I still get better gas mileage than you.

No mention of exhaust modifications. You may not have paid for your tune, but it is worth money so you still have that kind of value of a tune for anyone else who would want one. You also said 40 BHP which 330-280=50 BHP, so no, you are wrong. Not to mention the cost amount for a TP as well. Once again proving you are full of shit.

And this platform DOES NOT make 263 bhp stock, that is CHP, what the fuck. You have been here so long and you don't know shit. ^Same

Originally Posted by dsmluck Well I am sure the ringland issues will be fixed in the new 2.0 turbos but for the STI 2.5 its been a major issue. With the WRX you can get to 350-380whp cheaper and easier than just about any other 4 cylinder turbo on the market including the EVO. Anything above that and the reliability of the WRX's engine and transmission come into question. I agree though if I had 37k I would have bought an EVO. At 27k the new WRX is the best bang for the buck in that price range.

Evo's have their own set of issues my friend and I was going to buy a WRX, but no one had them for sale and I hate having to go to dealers and tell them to get the car I want because they always try to sell you on something they have in stock. I love Subaru and I think you made a great choice.

[Tokay444]

I mentioned tp (TEST PIPE!!!!) in my first post!
I don't what a tune costs but if I didn't pay, it didn't cost me anything.

I never said bhp in any of my posts.
Your dyno chart was whp.
I said I had 40 less. Mean on the same plane.

Bhp IS crank hp you fucking moron.
Nothing pu say from here out has any merit with me at all.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Hmm. I'm making 40 less hp, but 40 more lb/ft with less than a grand in mods (ap, internals, Sri and tp). And I still get better gas mileage than you.

See where it says tp?
That's test pipe. As in second cat deleted. $80 shipped used.

[darkrune]

You're right. Good job. I was was reading TIP. However, you didn't configure your costs correctly even having magical winning SRI and free tunes. THe average person will not have such luck.

[Tokay444]

Well I did. You. Can't tell me I paid more than I did.

@Bucker what were your final stock intake exhaust +93 tune numbers?

[darkrune]

So you are special? You got good prices and free shit. I didn't. Your original argument is that you paid a grand for what you have and are making 50 less horsepower. But the point is, the average person paid differently. For example. I paid 1800 for my mods to make the same horsepower you are talking about on my MS3.

[Tokay444]

Alright. That's valid.
But if you think chp is different from bhp, you don't know what you're talking about.
If I told you I tuned myself, would you still consider that to be a worth?

[12blkms3]

Can't we all just get along???
Congrats on the X, I was actually looking into a used one before the speed, to much money though.
I ended up running one a couple days after getting the speed, both of us still w/dealer plates... Haha!! We did it from a roll put about 2 and half cars on him!!! Ms3 FTW....

[Tokay444]

I'm glad you have a car you like.
Even happier I have one I like.

[Standsideways]

Ms3 for the win for sure.

*until snow, or rain, or bumpy roads, or gravel, or corners, or most of the things speed3's cant do very well.

I do not like the way the evo x produces/controls boost however, but i think that can be taken care of easily.

[Tokay444]

My speed handles all of that very very well. What's wrong with yours?

[Worbit]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 My speed handle all of that very very well. What's wrong with yours?

This is what I was thinking too. My car was a champ this past winter with ToyoProxes on during a snow storm. Must be the driver mod that is screwing up his MS3....

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Well I did. You. Can't tell me I paid more than I did. @Bucker what were your final stock intake exhaust +93 tune numbers?

Never dynoed, but Virtual Dyno said just about 270 WHP.

[Kellerspeed3]

Originally Posted by Standsideways Ms3 for the win for sure. *until snow, or rain, or bumpy roads, or gravel, or corners, or most of the things speed3's cant do very well. I do not like the way the evo x produces/controls boost however, but i think that can be taken care of easily.

Driver mod.

[327whp]

Originally Posted by Standsideways Ms3 for the win for sure. *until snow, or rain, or bumpy roads, or gravel, or corners, or most of the things speed3's cant do very well. I do not like the way the evo x produces/controls boost however, but i think that can be taken care of easily.

There is nothing wrong with the MS3 in really any of those areas you talk about. Sure any AWD will be more fun in say the snow, but I never once had any issues with my Blizzaks on. As far as cornering goes, hell I have smoked WRX, STI, EVO and Vettes in every AutoX I entered when I had my MS3 so that means you need a driver mod because these cars handle great in the corners even with just a simple JBR RSB. Being FWD, it is a lot easier to get this thing to turn and get out of corners especially with the stock turbo since you are always in boost through turns which makes coming out of corners so much fun compared to the AWD guys which most of them are bogging it in turns and losing a crap ton of time.

[Tokay444]

@Tomas passes Ferraris on road courses with his!

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by 327whp There is nothing wrong with the MS3 in really any of those areas you talk about. Sure any AWD will be more fun in say the snow, but I never once had any issues with my Blizzaks on. As far as cornering goes, hell I have smoked WRX, STI, EVO and Vettes in every AutoX I entered when I had my MS3 so that means you need a driver mod because these cars handle great in the corners even with just a simple JBR RSB. Being FWD, it is a lot easier to get this thing to turn and get out of corners especially with the stock turbo since you are always in boost through turns which makes coming out of corners so much fun compared to the AWD guys which most of them are bogging it in turns and losing a crap ton of time.

Uhg.. So you are telling me FWD is easier to get rotation out of and easier to power on coming out of corners? No chance. I have driven both FWD and AWD on a road course and it really is no comparison which comes out of a tight corner faster. FWD also has nothing to do with turbo lag. You likely beat those cars because you are a better driver not because FWD is superior to RWD and AWD. MS3 makes a great auto-x car no doubt but lets be realistic about its positives and negatives.

[KILLER_VIZ]

All I know is if the 2014 STI is anything like this( Next Subaru WRX STI will feature new 300+ HP 2.0 liter turbo ) I will be buying one for sure. I love my MS3 and it will still stay in the family though. @dsmluck are you coming to Edge's meet on the 28th?

Both cars are great by all means, and I dont think you could go wrong having either one!

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Uhg.. So you are telling me FWD is easier to get rotation out of and easier to power on coming out of corners? No chance. I have driven both FWD and AWD on a road course and it really is no comparison which comes out of a tight corner faster. FWD also has nothing to do with turbo lag. You likely beat those cars because you are a better driver not because FWD is superior to RWD and AWD. MS3 makes a great auto-x car no doubt but lets be realistic about its positives and negatives.

You haven't driven every fwd under the sun.
So you're generalizing.
The new Megane 256 is faster around a road course than a 370z.

[Tokay444]

I'd put money on myself to hold more entry speed and have higher exit speeds in my speed than someone in a similarily modded wrx.

Stock for stock the ms3 holds higher skid pad numbers.

[surebOOst]

Originally Posted by Standsideways Ms3 for the win for sure. *until snow, or rain, or bumpy roads, or gravel, or corners, or most of the things speed3's cant do very well. I do not like the way the evo x produces/controls boost however, but i think that can be taken care of easily.

You fail. You dont even own a speed im assuming from your mazda3 sedan avatar and you talking about how terrible it does under those conditions....You just suck at driving yo. Time to work on that shit.

Originally Posted by dsmluck Well I am sure the ringland issues will be fixed in the new 2.0 turbos but for the STI 2.5 its been a major issue. With the WRX you can get to 350-380whp cheaper and easier than just about any other 4 cylinder turbo on the market including the EVO. Anything above that and the reliability of the WRX's engine and transmission come into question. I agree though if I had 37k I would have bought an EVO. At 27k the new WRX is the best bang for the buck in that price range.

I would say it depends on what evo. I know very little about the X but im assuming that you are saying that you can make 380 easier in a wrx cheaper than a X....you can not make that power cheaper than an IX and VIII.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 You haven't driven every fwd under the sun. So you're generalizing. The new Megane 256 is faster around a road course than a 370z.

I am not talking about faster around an entire course. Never said FWD couldn't be. I said that FWD cars cannot power out of a curve the way that AWD can. This is indisputable.

Originally Posted by surebOOst You fail. You dont even own a speed im assuming from your mazda3 sedan avatar and you talking about how terrible it does under those conditions....You just suck at driving yo. Time to work on that shit. I would say it depends on what evo. I know very little about the X but im assuming that you are saying that you can make 380 easier in a wrx cheaper than a X....you can not make that power cheaper than an IX and VIII.

$1,100 dollars for a 2011-2012 WRX to hit those power numbers.

Kinugawa td05/06 20g - $800.00 Brand new.
Ebay Catless DP - $180.00
Fuel Injector Clinic 900cc - $400
Walbro 255 - $100
Open Source E85 tune 22-25 psi - $150
Stock VF52 turbo - -$600

At my altitude I am trapping higher than fully bolted VF-52's on E85 and a fully bolted VF-52 WRX at sea level puts down 340-360whp and are capable of high 11 second runs.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 I'd put money on myself to hold more entry speed and have higher exit speeds in my speed than someone in a similarily modded wrx. Stock for stock the ms3 holds higher skid pad numbers.

No. Not the new ones at least. Go look up slalom and lateral G times from the 2007-2009 MS3 and the 2011-2012 WRX. The WRX is about equal to or holds the edge in every major publication I found. Both have such similar lateral G's and slalom times that it is a drivers race between the two. Don't believe me look it up. Just don't be like others on this forum who come back and post stats from the 2009-2010 WRX. Not the same suspension so not valid.

I wouldn't be so quick to put money on anyone including myself, who has limited or no track time putting down respectable times or clean driving lines.

[Standsideways]

Originally Posted by surebOOst You fail. You dont even own a speed im assuming from your mazda3 sedan avatar and you talking about how terrible it does under those conditions....You just suck at driving yo. Time to work on that shit.

LOL you fail! dont you own an evo??

The car in the picture is my boosted 06 sedan.

I own/compete with a 2012 speed in a FIA sanctioned series.

I do tech/marshaling for CRC rally, i think i know the difference between FWD and AWD performance in snow/gravel. why else are the 4wd cars THAT MUCH faster in any type of weather? ohh because they are 4wd.

maybe your WV winter is a little different than my canadian winter.

4wd>fwd all day nov-march where im from.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Standsideways LOL you fail! dont you own an evo?? The car in the picture is my boosted 06 sedan. I own/compete with a 2012 speed in a FIA sanctioned series. I do tech/marshaling for CRC rally, i think i know the difference between FWD and AWD performance in snow/gravel. why else are the 4wd cars THAT MUCH faster in any type of weather? ohh because they are 4wd. maybe your WV winter is a little different than my canadian winter. 4wd>fwd all day nov-march where im from.

Don`t even try. There are a group of guys here that honestly believe that the only advantage AWD has is for a split second on launch. I have brought up weather, gravel, dirt, mud, water, snow, and the benifit of AWD and exit speeds from a corner and its always dismissed. Case in point. It was raining yesterday so I took my car out to my favorite twisty deserted road and had some fun getting slightly sideways. Never ever could have done that in any FWD I have driven. Don`t know why the MS6 guys stay so quiet about these topics.

[surebOOst]

Originally Posted by Standsideways LOL you fail! dont you own an evo?? The car in the picture is my boosted 06 sedan. I own/compete with a 2012 speed in a FIA sanctioned series. I do tech/marshaling for CRC rally, i think i know the difference between FWD and AWD performance in snow/gravel. why else are the 4wd cars THAT MUCH faster in any type of weather? ohh because they are 4wd. maybe your WV winter is a little different than my canadian winter. 4wd>fwd all day nov-march where im from.

Yes I own evo 9 and speed 3. Your post said the speed3 was great

*until snow, or rain, or bumpy roads, or gravel, or corners, or most of the things speed3's cant do very well.

so I was saying you failed because the speep can tackle most of these without issues. WV winters are shitty and ive driven my speed in snow/ice conditions with no issues. Of course awd will be better but fwd isnt a complete crutch in these situations. Try driving a rwd sports car on snow/ice roads then you will think fwd is a boss.

[surebOOst]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Don`t even try. There are a group of guys here that honestly believe that the only advantage AWD has is for a split second on launch. I have brought up weather, gravel, dirt, mud, water, snow, and the benifit of AWD and exit speeds from a corner and its always dismissed. Case in point. It was raining yesterday so I took my car out to my favorite twisty deserted road and had some fun getting slightly sideways. Never ever could have done that in any FWD I have driven. Don`t know why the MS6 guys stay so quiet about these topics.

maybe you didnt read the post I quoted from him at first. If you say aswell that the speed cant handle any bumpy roads, snow, rain, gravel, corners etc then you must have never driven your speed in those conditions.

Here is what im saying @Standsideways @dsmluck... In non racing conditions the speed 3 can handle snow, rain, gravel, bumpy roads etc with minor issues if any. Of course if you are going to race on these conditions then you would want awd because FWD RACING in those conditions is just asking for a wreck.

[Standsideways]

this is true ^

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Don`t even try. There are a group of guys here that honestly believe that the only advantage AWD has is for a split second on launch. I have brought up weather, gravel, dirt, mud, water, snow, and the benifit of AWD and exit speeds from a corner and its always dismissed. Case in point. It was raining yesterday so I took my car out to my favorite twisty deserted road and had some fun getting slightly sideways. Never ever could have done that in any FWD I have driven. Don`t know why the MS6 guys stay so quiet about these topics.

I'll argue that in ideal road conditions, awd done NOT have a launch advantage, and is actually disadvantaged.
My ms3 gets sideways all the time. And no, I'm not using the handbrake to endive it either.
The suspension has passive rear steer built in. If yours didn't rotate, you weren't going fast enough.
The ms6 guys are quiet because their car is basically fwd anyway.
I remember reading about how the handbrake at two clicks disengages drive to the rear wheels, so they could get a better launch, so they know what I know too.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by surebOOst maybe you didnt read the post I quoted from him at first. If you say aswell that the speed cant handle any bumpy roads, snow, rain, gravel, corners etc then you must have never driven your speed in those conditions. Here is what im saying @Standsideways @dsmluck... In non racing conditions the speed 3 can handle snow, rain, gravel, bumpy roads etc with minor issues if any. Of course if you are going to race on these conditions then you would want awd because FWD RACING in those conditions is just asking for a wreck.

Well I didn't mean to say that the Ms3 can't handle those conditions just that it wouldn't be nearly as good as AWD in the sloppy stuff.

Originally Posted by Tokay444 I'll argue that in ideal road conditions, awd done NOT have a launch advantage, and is actually disadvantaged. My ms3 gets sideways all the time. And no, I'm not using the handbrake to endive it either. The suspension has passive rear steer built in. If yours didn't rotate, you weren't going fast enough. The ms6 guys are quiet because their car is basically fwd anyway. I remember reading about how the handbrake at two clicks disengages drive to the rear wheels, so they could get a better launch, so they know what I know too.

AWD does not have a launch advantage? I can't see any way that would be true. The MS3 will rotate on most corners but push it hard in a tight one and you get plow. With AWD you can power out of situations like that with a healthy dose of throttle. In my experience when the MS3 pushes you cannot throttle out of a situation like that.

As much as I have drag raced I really don't understand how it would be beneficial to launch in FWD mode.

So are you saying that a similarly powered MS3 (gt3071) would beat me from a dig?

[Tokay444]

Awd cars understeer in the same condition you describe.
Most don't have the power to get the wheel slip that is required for a good launch, because they can't overcome the mechanical grip, so either they bog the launch, or the clutch slips.

[adlpb]

@Tokay444

I usually respect your knowledge about this platform, but I have to say that I completely disagree with your logic here. I cannot see how anyone on their right mind would say that FWD has the same launching capabilities, or no advantage to AWD.

Look at the 2012 GTR. Pushing 430whp stock. Doing 0-60 in 2.6 seconds. How many BT MS3's do we have here that push out the same or higher numbers in power. And yet they will never see anything under 4 seconds with slicks and a VERY good driver. I don't know what "bog" you speak of. Go on google and see comparative BT Evo's and they launch a whole lot harder than anything I've seen here.

I am not arguing against the MS3 here. I owned the car and I loved it. But there is no way in hell you can come here and say that FWD=AWD when it comes to launching.

[Tokay444]

Are talking about a gtr?
We're talking about a wrx/evo.

And now we'er taking about big turbo cars? When did that start?

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Are talking about a gtr? We're talking about a wrx/evo. And now we'er taking about big turbo cars? When did that start?

Originally Posted by Tokay444 I'll argue that in ideal road conditions, awd done (guess you meant does) NOT have a launch advantage, and is actually disadvantaged.

As you stated, you were talking about AWD platform in general vs. FWD. I don't care if it's a GTR, Evo, WRX or STi. AWD has a clear advantage when launching over FWD. That was my point.

[Tokay444]

My buddy just bought an evoX with the paddle shifters and I get the jump on him every single time.