I traded it in.

[bms3mtb]

I can't believe I just wasted 20 minutes reading the last 2 pages of this faggotry..

Give it up FWD leg humpers..

OP got an evo and loves it. Other people did the same. Big fucking deal.
Everyone loves whatever they own. It's just how we work.

A good driver who is used to his car will always beat a fucking noob who just got his. FWD, RWD, AWD, 9000WD...

/thread.

[Tokay444]

I'm not in love with fwd. In fact, I hate it. Not as much as awd though.

[adlpb]

A fair comparison would be for you to get in his car and compare times. Even though it's an automatic, you still need to know how to properly launch.

I wouldn't generalize because of that one case either

[CWP_MS3]

Mom and dad stop fighting!!!








Fuck that, this shit is funnay to me. For those who like the evo, the MS3 is better. For tokay, the evo is better. Fight to the death... Begin!!!

[surebOOst]

Well I love both. @adlpb im turboup yo

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 My buddy just bought an evoX with the paddle shifters and I get the jump on him every single time.

You are being rediculous now. Your buddy can't launch for shit. No way FWD is equal to AWD off the line. I did about 50+ 1/4 mile runs in the MS3. Fastest 60 foot was a 2.2. In the WRX I pull 1.8's in my sleep and could do much faster if I stopped relying on the clutch to take the abuse. Oh and the 1.8s were on the stock VF-52. Show me one MS3 pulling a 1.8 on all season street tires..just one.

Also understeer is an effect of having a front mounted engine and all of that front weight bias. Depending on the suspension this can be mitigated. My car with f/r sways oversteers slightly at the limit. The issue I am talking about is front plow or push while turning under power. In a well set up AWD car you can take a corner point the front at the apex and power out. The rear will kick back in line and since all four wheels are turning it will prevent push or plow. A FWD car has no power to the back wheels and thus less ability to just power out of a corner. You give a FWD car too much throttle and you will understeer..big time. My MS3 was great on the course but without fail there were a few corners that I had to be cautious with the throttle. No such issue on the WRX with AWD.

[Tokay444]

You can set up any style of platform to handle any way you'd like if we're talking about modding suspension now as well.

But basically what you're telling me is, awd hides the sloppiness of a lazy/bad driver?

[I<3Groceries]

There is no use in arguing. FWD is for minivans. The Speed3 is a minivan.

Where is the issue here?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[specvspeedfreak]

sometimes @Tokay444 's logic reminds of this guys

Simple way to explain why FWD is Better the RWD - YouTube

Simple way to explain why FWD is Better the RWD - YouTube

[Tokay444]

What's the fastest awd quarter? 60 ft?

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by specvspeedfreak sometimes @Tokay444 's logic reminds of this guys Simple way to explain why FWD is Better the RWD - YouTube

Hahahaha.

[dooderek]

How much pussy do you get with that sig pic?

[Tokay444]

Over 9000

[Tokay444]

Where's the awd car?

5 Minutes to a Faster 2013 Scion FR-S - YouTube

5 Minutes to a Faster 2013 Scion FR-S - YouTube

[Tokay444]

I'm seeing the fastest awd quarter to be 7.58
And the fastest fwd quarter as 6.94
Unless someone can show me otherwise.
That's just what came up when I googled the records.
So....

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 You can set up any style of platform to handle any way you'd like if we're talking about modding suspension now as well. But basically what you're telling me is, awd hides the sloppiness of a lazy/bad driver?

Let it go man these guys just want to justify their training wheels. Any comment on the ms3 overpowering its front wheels in a corner is due to driver error you don't have to floor it everytime. Same with torque steer if it's too much power for the front wheels use less throttle.


Anyone wonder why Porsche takes the awd out of their track models? Because its not faster. The only reason they put it on the turbo model is so the poseurs driving them can look like they know what the fuck they are doing and not kill themselves to often.

[specvspeedfreak]

if there was an evo, it would probably be out in front.

...I still love my MS3

[Tokay444]

And fwd sucks.
Rwd is what really pwns.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 And fwd sucks. Rwd is what really pwns.

Unfortunately there are no rwd econo hatchbacks available in north America. I still miss my pinto.

[Tokay444]

Which is precisely why I drive the speed3. Nothing available.
Someday I'll boost an ISF. Still have 4 doors, and beat up even harder on the awd crowd.
For now I'm happy with my 2012 sti and evoX kills.

[BADFISH6]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny Let it go man these guys just want to justify their training wheels. Any comment on the ms3 overpowering its front wheels in a corner is due to driver error you don't have to floor it everytime. Same with torque steer if it's too much power for the front wheels use less throttle. Anyone wonder why Porsche takes the awd out of their track models? Because its not faster. The only reason they put it on the turbo model is so the poseurs driving them can look like they know what the fuck they are doing and not kill themselves to often.

Calling AWD training wheels is idiotic. AWD is not about drag racing, especially the sophisticated systems like the Evo's S-AWC and the GTR's ATESSA E-TS. There is no argument that in heavy, passenger, front engine cars AWD is advantageous on the track.
The reason Porsche can take awd out of their track models and run quick laps is because they are just that TRACK MODELS. Lightweight, carbon fiber, mid engined track cars with substantial amounts of down force.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by BADFISH6 Calling AWD training wheels is idiotic. AWD is not about drag racing, especially the sophisticated systems like the Evo's S-AWC and the GTR's ATESSA E-TS. There is no argument that in heavy, passenger, front engine cars AWD is advantageous on the track. The reason Porsche can take awd out of their track models and run quick laps is because they are just that TRACK MODELS. Lightweight, carbon fiber, mid engined track cars with substantial amounts of down force.

Awd is for the track but they take it out of the track models? I'm confused.

[BADFISH6]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny Awd is for the track but they take it out of the track models? I'm confused.

AWD is advantageous when tracking heavy front engined cars.

[Tokay444]

Over rwd cars? Not a fucking chance brownie faggot.

Why has Ferrari never produced and awd track car? And why has lambo never won a race anywhere?

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 And why has lambo never won a race anywhere?

to be fair, for a long time it was simply because they didn't try.

check this out... Nissan with their super high tech AWD in the GT-R took it out for competition.

Nissan's GT500 GT-R to tackle SuperGT with V8 power

[Tokay444]

Oh yeah for sure they'd have to. At least in a racing you still have to be a driver to win.

[BADFISH6]

Why do you think companies like Mitsubishi and Nissan spent years designing sophisticated AWD systems? For shits and giggles? Certainly not to make their cars slower around a road course. Do you think that any driver in the world could run a GTR around the Nurburgring faster than 7:16 with a GTR sending all of its power to the rear wheels?
You guys are missing the point. An Evo X weighs about 3600 lbs, a GTR weighs nearly 4000 lbs. By today’s standards, that is heavy for a modern sports car. Also you may have noticed the engines are mounted in the FRONT on both of those cars. Ferrari nor Lamborghini like to put engine in the front of their cars for good reason. Also all of that flamboyant supercar body work provides a great deal of down force.
Lambo’s AWD is nothing short of archaic. The GTR’s awd system can predict driver input, torque vector, and move the car in ways that no human being alone can make a 4000lb car move.
Im no idiot, I know there is a reason F1 cars are RWD. Again, they are lightweight and create an amount down force greater than their own weight at speed. You cant compare an F1 car to a GTR, nor can you really compare a lightweight mid engine Ferrari to a GTR. All I am saying is that when its comes to heavy, front engine cars with negligible down force systems like S-AWC and ATESSA AWD are advantageous.

[Tokay444]

I can guarantee a gtr with all it's power to the rear wheels would be faster around the ring, because it would also be lighter.

[Easter Bunny]

I think they kinda tried that but they called it a corvette and it went faster.

Really suprised I didn't get shit for owning a pinto.

[BADFISH6]

I guess that was a stupid question because we will never know, but I would bet even with a weight advantage RWD would be significantly slower.

You should probably go work for Nissan. Those idiots obviously don't know what they are doing. They made the ATESSA AWD system because were tired of trying to figure out to make the Leaf sell.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by BADFISH6 I guess that was a stupid question because we will never know, but I would bet even with a weight advantage RWD would be significantly slower. You should probably go work for Nissan. Those idiots obviously don't know what they are doing. They made the ATESSA AWD system because were tired of trying to figure out to make the Leaf sell.

We can surmise which configuration would be faster based solely on the fact that Nissan who designed the awd system took it out when they decided to take the car racing. I covered this several posts back

[BADFISH6]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny We can surmise which configuration would be faster based solely on the fact that Nissan who designed the awd system took it out when they decided to take the car racing. I covered this several posts back

Thats not exactly a passenger car is it? And I be surprised if that weighed over 2700 lbs. I would also bet by the looks of it that it is capable of producing a substantial amount of down force.

So yes we can surmise that a RWD ultra lightweight Super GT GTR would be faster than a production GTR with ATESSA awd. Good point

[azokaei]

EVO X over MS3 any day you can get a decent used Evo x for like $26000, so your telling me trading in the $25000 speed3 for an Evo is stupid?

Evo x handles better then the speed will ever, launches better, better stock turbo, way easier to make power on, more mods, open source tuning, e85 when you get injectors and fuel pump.

On a DynaPack you can get an evo x 440 WHP 380TQ

our turbo's die at 5900rpm, our fuel pumps fail after 17 psi, and is fwd

Don't get me wrong compared to a Civic Si, WRX, Ralliart, speed 3 is better in my opinion but it has no business being compared to an Evo lol at least they make injectors for evo's

and a bolt on Evo X with Coil overs keeps up with a GT-R, GT-R is an amazing car but for me if I was purchasing it GT-R $90,000 used Z06 $45,000 oarts are cheaper and bone stock Z06 Rapes the GT-R off a roll, Z06 with tune intake headers is like 10.8 1/4 mile, and parts are cheaper for a Z06 and I love the gearing 70mph in 1st gear can't beat that

[BADFISH6]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny We can surmise which configuration would be faster based solely on the fact that Nissan who designed the awd system took it out when they decided to take the car racing. I covered this several posts back

To be fair, I understand what youre saying. You would think that if Nissan's ATESSA awd system truly made the car faster, the would put it on their SUPER GT car. There are a lot more variables you must take into consideration. Such as the ATESSA system may not be able to handle the stress and abuse of Super GT racing.

But that is kind of irrelevant, because that SUPER GT car is far from a production GTR. Its lightweight and has tons of down force. It is a race car. That changes things significantly. Its a different car that certainly doesnt behave the same way as a 4000lb gtr.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by azokaei EVO X over MS3 any day you can get a decent used Evo x for like $26000, so your telling me trading in the $25000 speed3 for an Evo is stupid? Evo x handles better then the speed will ever, launches better, better stock turbo, way easier to make power on, more mods, open source tuning, e85 when you get injectors and fuel pump. On a DynaPack you can get an evo x 440 WHP 380TQ our turbo's die at 5900rpm, our fuel pumps fail after 17 psi, and is fwd Don't get me wrong compared to a Civic Si, WRX, Ralliart, speed 3 is better in my opinion but it has no business being compared to an Evo lol at least they make injectors for evo's and a bolt on Evo X with Coil overs keeps up with a GT-R, GT-R is an amazing car but for me if I was purchasing it GT-R $90,000 used Z06 $45,000 oarts are cheaper and bone stock Z06 Rapes the GT-R off a roll, Z06 with tune intake headers is like 10.8 1/4 mile, and parts are cheaper for a Z06 and I love the gearing 70mph in 1st gear can't beat that

I drove the evo and the spring rates were so soft, and the body roll so immense, I thought it was going to roll over. Nty.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by BADFISH6 To be fair, I understand what youre saying. You would think that if Nissan's ATESSA awd system truly made the car faster, the would put it on their SUPER GT car. There are a lot more variables you must take into consideration. Such as the ATESSA system may not be able to handle the stress and abuse of Super GT racing. But that is kind of irrelevant, because that SUPER GT car is far from a production GTR. Its lightweight and has tons of down force. It is a race car. That changes things significantly. Its a different car that certainly doesnt behave the same way as a 4000lb gtr.

You keep saying downforce like it matters in the low speed situations where awd can have advantages.

[Tokay444]

Awd is not for the track.
It's for rally cars and people who can't drive.
Nissan built what they built to appeal to people that wanted to feel like race car drivers, but knew they could never be a race car driver.

[razorscs]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Awd is not for the track. It's for rally cars and people who can't drive. Nissan built what they built to appeal to people that wanted to feel like race car drivers, but knew they could never be a race car driver.

I don't quite agree with this at all, but I can't tell if you're kidding so I'm not going to explain why haha.


Tappin'

[Tokay444]

One thing I'm not kidding about is my dislike for awd street cars.
There really is no need.
Some might make the same argument that there is no need for 700whp either.
So it's all subjective.
People have their preferences.
I do however seem to be the only one in this thread who has put forth any form of proof to my argument that awd is not superior to any other platform, but in fact it's shortcomings outweigh it's minimal advantages.
To the one dude that said awd was never intended for drag racing, I ask you this. Was fwd?

Lamborghini's closest thing to a hard core track car...
The balboni edition....
Wait for it...
Rwd.
Their head test driver, when asked what he wanted out the "ultimate Lamborghini", said "make it rwd".

[surebOOst]

Man this thread has turned into fwd/rwd vs awd. I think this can be solved very easy though. AWD is great for a car you can run everything from autox, road course, drag and still have a car you can drive year around as a DD. Its also very helpful when making gobs of power in a street car and wanting to put it all down no matter what speed you are driving.

But when it comes to professional racing rwd is always going to win over awd and fwd. Rwd is lighter than AWD which gives huge advantages when racing others who actually can drive. Rwd handles better than FWD when racing others who actually know how to drive. Plain and simple RWD in professional racing will dominate FWD and AWD because of those 2 advantages.