Keep stock TMIC and go Meth?

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by phate WGDC drops, because there is less pressure drop from the aftermarket intercoolers. We do not, however, see more airflow. With the K04, the stock top mount is not a flow restriction. We see (depending on car) 280-300g/s whether it's stock top mount, aftermarket top mount, or front mount. The K04 is the limiting factor.

Not much that can be added, but a hearty +1. On E50 I can't hit more than ~300 g/s no matter what I try.


Tapadatass

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Blackspeed So, you are stating your butt dyno as fact? I have posted actual dyno results of TMIC with quite more than your "nominal" claims. Do a search. I am not disagreeing with the benefits of running meth, but to say that a TMIC is basically useless is just plain wrong.

It is basically useless on the stock turbo because you can max the k04 out without upgrading to an aftermarket TMIC. Plus methanol does a much better job of cooling. Chemical intercooling > air to air but if you have a dyno disproving this please share.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by phate WGDC drops, because there is less pressure drop from the aftermarket intercoolers. We do not, however, see more airflow. With the K04, the stock top mount is not a flow restriction. We see (depending on car) 280-300g/s whether it's stock top mount, aftermarket top mount, or front mount. The K04 is the limiting factor. @adlpb, @dsmluck, does that help settle your debate from above?

Yeap. That is basically what I was getting at.

I really would like to see some try an E85/gt3076/hpfp internals/AP build. If you sourced the turbo used you could do the build for under $1700 and make well over 300hp even with the other parts being stock.

[phate]

Going to have a car with that exact setup on the dyno next month!!!

[adlpb]

I'll be waiting for those Dyno results @phate.

Thanks for the info btw

[Floridaspeed]

So due to the restrictions of the k04 an upgraded TMIC will work best with a larger turbo due to flow?

[ckMS3]

Upgraded tmic or fmic either way better than stock ic

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by phate Going to have a car with that exact setup on the dyno next month!!!

In for results!

[Illusion]

im going to say go TMIC for quicker turbo spool and better cooling than stock ETS makes good ones, FMIC if your going full out HARDCORE and dont mind the install but there will be lil more turbo lag says I.

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by Illusion im going to say go TMIC for quicker turbo spool and better cooling than stock ETS makes good ones, FMIC if your going full out HARDCORE and dont mind the install but there will be lil more turbo lag says I.

It's been proven above and in other threads that an aftermarket TMIC has the same amount of cooling as the stock one. They just have less pressure drop. I have a FMIC and I can tell you this lag you speak of is inexistent if you properly tune it out (and it was maybe 200 RPM more han stock originally).

[rfinkle2]

Phate and Silvapain, is there anything that is contributed by air density with cooler bat's via meth injection?

There has to be some benefit to the increased charge density.

I'm not saying meth injection makes the equivalent power of e85, but I do think a meth injected car running e85 will make more power than an e85 only car.

[phate]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Phate and Silvapain, is there anything that is contributed by air density with cooler bat's via meth injection? There has to be some benefit to the increased charge density. I'm not saying meth injection makes the equivalent power of e85, but I do think a meth injected car running e85 will make more power than an e85 only car.

Well, looking at it the other way, we saw that higher BAT's did not decrease airflow and my car didn't lose any power with it. So, unless the meth actually allows us to increase airflow with the turbo completely maxed out already, I'd say no.

This is why I'm so curious about the pre-turbo. It should increase the air mass into the turbo. How much, though, I'm not sure. I have a feeling it won't be significant enough to sate my desire for winter power in the summer.

[rfinkle2]

Strange, but I can't argue facts. Thanks Phate.

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Phate and Silvapain, is there anything that is contributed by air density with cooler bat's via meth injection? There has to be some benefit to the increased charge density. I'm not saying meth injection makes the equivalent power of e85, but I do think a meth injected car running e85 will make more power than an e85 only car.

I honestly don't know. @phate is in the process of testing pre-turbo meth to get more out of the K04, but he has been delayed by clutch issues.

My opinion is ~300 g/s is all the K04 will put out period, and to get more Oxygen into the combustion chamber N2O is required.


Tapadatass

[silvapain]

Beat by my slow-ass typing skills on the iPhone.


Tapadatass

[Jrs7686]

Any recommended setups for a daily driver. my buddy ( in his 40's) was thinking about running a meth setup to help keep his intake valves clean and lower the bat. Mind you he is stock(07 ms3).

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by Jrs7686 Any recommended setups for a daily driver. my buddy ( in his 40's) was thinking about running a meth setup to help keep his intake valves clean and lower the bat. Mind you he is stock(07 ms3).

Unless he has a method to tune/monitor, I wouldn't recommend it.

[Jrs7686]

You think an AP with a tune? Mild tune or could it be more aggressive ?

[G26]

Originally Posted by Jrs7686 You think an AP with a tune? Mild tune or could it be more aggressive ?

It would need a custom tune for the meth.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Jrs7686 Any recommended setups for a daily driver. my buddy ( in his 40's) was thinking about running a meth setup to help keep his intake valves clean and lower the bat. Mind you he is stock(07 ms3).

Originally Posted by Jrs7686 You think an AP with a tune? Mild tune or could it be more aggressive ?

There aren't really any drawbacks to running meth injection with a stock car. It will likely keep things a little bit safer than normal. BUT, he should not expect to gain any power without tuning for it.

[Elusivellama]

Just read the whole thread. Good info in here. I went stage 2 and tuned yesterday and suffice to say that shit gets hot and needs to be cooled down if I want to see 300 whp (or close to it). You can fry a fucking egg on the TMIC after a couple pulls.

Thinking of getting a Snow Performance Stage 2 kit now and tuning for it for safety and performance. I'll be happy to get 290+ - 300+ on a safe reliable tune with wmi. Sounds doable? Seems like meth drops the BAT by about 40 fahrenheit. I'm in Canada... so I have to consider winter temps as well.

edit:
Mods include:
- CPE TMIC
- CPE DP (catted) with stock CBE still
- CS SRI with TIH
- Denso ITV 22 plugs
- Autotech HPFP internals

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by Elusivellama Just read the whole thread. Good info in here. I went stage 2 and tuned yesterday and suffice to say that shit gets hot and needs to be cooled down if I want to see 300 whp (or close to it). You can fry a fucking egg on the TMIC after a couple pulls. Thinking of getting a Snow Performance Stage 2 kit now and tuning for it for safety and performance. I'll be happy to get 290+ on a safe reliable tune with wmi. Sounds doable? I'm in Canada... so I have to consider winter temps as well. edit: Mods include: - CPE TMIC - CPE DP (catted) with stock CBE still - CS SRI with TIH - Denso ITV 22 plugs - Autotech HPFP internals

With the supporting mods, 300+whp is definitely doable with meth. And good choice on the snow performance kit.

[Elusivellama]

One thing I'm still not clear on is the safety net of meth kits. Is there a safety net? Suppose you run out of meth for whatever reason (pump fails, nozzle fails), what is there to prevent your meth-tune from causing your engine to eat itself? Serious question, not rhetorical.

[COspeed6]

How friendly would a dealer be if they saw a meth kit?

[Elusivellama]

Originally Posted by COspeed6 How friendly would a dealer be if they saw a meth kit?

^ this friendly

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by Elusivellama One thing I'm still not clear on is the safety net of meth kits. Is there a safety net? Suppose you run out of meth for whatever reason (pump fails, nozzle fails), what is there to prevent your meth-tune from causing your engine to eat itself? Serious question, not rhetorical.

If you need meth to prevent knock, you should buy a kit with a low-level sensor for the tank, and a gauge with a low level light (or mount a separate low level light somewhere in the cabin).

I've said this many times on here: the only meth kit I would run is Aquamist. It uses a real controller and injector instead of just an orifice. Both the Snow and Devil's Own kits can leak and cause hydrolock.


Tapadatass

[COspeed6]

Originally Posted by Elusivellama ^ this friendly

I assumed so. Haha

[Elusivellama]

Originally Posted by silvapain If you need meth to prevent knock, you should buy a kit with a low-level sensor for the tank, and a gauge with a low level light (or mount a separate low level light somewhere in the cabin). I've said this many times on here: the only meth kit I would run is Aquamist. It uses a real controller and injector instead of just an orifice. Both the Snow and Devil's Own kits can leak and cause hydrolock. Tapadatass

Found some info on Aquamist vs Snow/DO here:

Indepth study of WAI injection systems -restart - NASIOC

Reading it now

[dadderllama]

Reviving a little bit of an old thread, but has anyone tried the cryo2 kits? They have an inline bulb that will cool intake temp and theoretically provide denser air if mounted before the maf increasing g/s overall then the liquid co2 would be used for tmic/fmic dump that would significantly drop bat's... Still a refillable item/ cost... But no risk of hydrolock and can still have a controller for bursts or wot runs... Hmmm

[smoogs12]

Originally Posted by dadderllama They have an inline bulb that will cool intake temp and theoretically provide denser air if mounted before the maf increasing g/s overall

you do know that co2 isnt combustible right?