Look at this crock of shit from a local Ford dealer....

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by dsmluck A Genpu owner dissing the styling of another vehicle? Lol!

[crankshaft]

For that price, it better out perform the Speed3!

Seriously tho, I like them, but still prefer the looks of the 3.

[Spec]

Originally Posted by JT.Tuckerman Well I think the ST looks pretty cool- enough to maybe buy one, since I love hot hatches any way. So, I'll settle it when I take on my own Speed 3- my son in the Speed 3- which I will give to him. He drives just like me anyway since, well I taught him to drive with performance in mind....and I'll drive the ST. Boy that will be fun. If I buy one and do this, I'll report back.

This shall be known as the day " the student has become the master" lol

[Keko]

Originally Posted by jseams Everybody keeps saying Car and Driver - the article was Road and Track (same publisher, diff mag)... Car and Driver has a "first drive" article on the ST, but unless I've completely missed my sub delivery and missed it on their website, no comparo has been done yet. I'd be surprised if C/D didn't wait until they had equivelent year models to test. I'm still not sure about how unbiased it will be, Ford seems to have dug it's talons in deep. But we'll see...

Hmm.. you are right lol. I even read the actual magazine when I was getting my car aligned the other day. I guess I saw other people referring to C&D so I did.

The more I think about this article, I kind of like it. One of the main reasons I started liking the MS3 is because they are pretty rare to see (as opposed to WRXs everywhere). If this will sway anyone that doesn't do enough research, or Ford fanboys to get the ST, I'm happy with it.

[Jason43]

I think, sadly, that ad reflects the attitude of the majority of future ST owners. I've already had a run in with a shit talking kid who claimed he owned one. Seems that after reading the R&T article, they think they are the most badass thing on 4 wheels. Reminded me of every SRT4 owner I've ever met.

[Clannad]

Read C&D and another magazine today basically did the same thing Ford1, Gti2, MS3(3)

I was alittle displeased to see that the focus "beat" the Mazda in almost every category by miniscule amounts .##'s except for the 60-120 according to there Data.
And the GTI still beat out the mazda based on just being a nicer car.

It felt alittle biased, but maybe im being the same way. I love my damn smiling car.

[SoCal MS3]

First off, I think the ST is ugly as shit. The MS3 is so much better looking.
Secondly, Car and Driver was paid by Ford to have it 'win' and beat the GTI and the MS3. Biased? Maybe. But all in all, the MS3 is the superior car.
The others can eat my ass.

[jseams]

Road and Track! Road and Track!

Let's not burn C/D at the stake just yet. rofl

[SoCal MS3]

My bad. haha

[qweedqwag]

I drove a 13 MS3 and the ST, Here is my take, both cars are quick, I got to dog the ST where as the MS3 I didn't however, the MS3 seemed quicker and the torque steer wasn't an issue, the ST was quick and I really got to flog it, the sales guy was a douche and really thought I was going to buy it that nite. The ST did feel tighter and was quite inside but not by much it just did not seem to have the pull the MS3 has, both were fun to drive, it has been a hard choice

[Clannad]

Originally Posted by jseams Road and Track! Road and Track! Let's not burn C/D at the stake just yet. rofl

That was the other one i read today couldnt remeber the name of it sorry.

Yeah the road and track one had all the number comparisons that pissed me off like i said the ST won every category almost by .04's higher then the others.
It did feel very FORD is better'ish.

[Spec]

Fuck a focus. The end.

[Keko]

Originally Posted by Spec Fuck a focus. The end.

Unless RS

[Chuthor]

You think R&T was a one sided review? I know this isn't a big reviewer or anything but look at how much ST dick sucking happens here. Everything You Wanted to Know About the 2013 Ford Focus ST | The Smoking Tire

Hopefully not a repost

[MS3MYK]

Originally Posted by Chuthor You think R&T was a one sided review? I know this isn't a big reviewer or anything but look at how much ST dick sucking happens here. Everything You Wanted to Know About the 2013 Ford Focus ST | The Smoking Tire Hopefully not a repost

I love Matt Farah and how he reviews cars, but that was a load of BS

Sent using my EVO LTE

[Pu Manchu]

Originally Posted by dsmluck A Genpu owner dissing the styling of another vehicle? Lol!

A guy with DSM in his nickname and a subaru in his sig? Lol!

[86azms3]

Originally Posted by Chuthor You think R&T was a one sided review? I know this isn't a big reviewer or anything but look at how much ST dick sucking happens here. Everything You Wanted to Know About the 2013 Ford Focus ST | The Smoking Tire Hopefully not a repost

Hahaha @ going 130mph by the time the overboost is done with (15s) Pretty sure it will take quite a bit longer to get to 130 then 15s. Probably closer to 20s.

[Mchart]

The same thing is happening in this case as with what happens with most GTI vs MS3 reviews.

The reviewers care more about the interior and from that point on skew the review results in favor of said car.

The rediculous part of it is that the interior of the MS3 is above average as it is. They make it sound like it's bottom line and complete shit. Even people with GTI's who ride in my car comment on how the interior is way better then the reviews made it out to be.


Still, I think everyone expected as much. It's a bit shameful how these reviewers are misrepresenting the performance of the MS3 to such a high degree though.

I'm willing to bet that the shitty times in this road and track review are due to the driver not turning DSC off.

[KennyG]

Alright my MZR friends. I went to local Ford and test drove the ST. Great car,fun to drive for a Focus. Although it has been out in Europe for many years Ford has had plenty time to tweak and produce the ST for USA. Here are the positives, car is very light so that is where the 252 hp helps,sterring is responsive and does handle corners well. I did stomp the gas with salesman digging his nails into his seat. Quick car, I would say same as GTI but not MZR. My speed3 is atleast 1sec faster 0-60 and 3 sec faster going to 100. As far as seats and comfort, very nice ride not as stiff when hitting bumps and seats are nice but don't seem to hold you in place when whipping around the corners. Fords downside is stock to stock MZR is much better made and no comparison when talking value. I can't fit my 9 yr old and surf boards in the Focus,as I can in the Speed3. Biggest problem is you end up paying $30k when all said and done with tax, tag, and any upgrades. Hell you can throw in a big turbo and every MOD possible for that price with the Speed3. I can say I did like the Focus more than GTI but Mazda is still King!!!!!! Happy Racing

[El_Diablo]

For what its worth, I sell cars, Ford being one of the brands that we offer.

Now for the most part, sales consultants (or salesmen) are not car guys. To obtain knowledge on new cars we recieve information from the manufacture, beyond that and checking out the vehicle yourself you can go look at various magazine or online publications. Point being, hes not necessarily a con or a bad sales consultant, he may just be missinformed.

Believe it or not, a majority of sales consultants have good intentions and are not trying to outright lie to you. Now myself, being new to selling cars have learned a valuable thing- If you don't know the answer, keep your mouth shut until you can find one and then verify!!

"Trust but verify!"- Ronald Reagan




Now with that said- There are positives and negatives to both. The important thing being that at last there is another choice in the "Hot Hatch" segment. For me, the MS3 fit my needs a little better. Besides that, who even cares stock for stock anymore anyways? I voided my warranty within a day or two of getting my MS3...... We can only hope this further pushes OEM and aftermarket development of products.

[gearhead750]

What is wrong with you fuckers. This guy put his cell number in the CL ad. This thread should be about sending him pictures of dicks.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Pu Manchu A guy with DSM in his nickname and a subaru in his sig? Lol!

Yeap. Its just easier to stick with the original screen name i made up over a decade ago with my 2g DSM than to constantly update it everytime i change cars.

[JP Patterson]

I just bought a brand new 2012 Speed3 and did the whole WRX, GTI, ST and Speed3 test. Here are some of my opinions that, granted are gut based since it's not like I had the opportunity to do anything scientific. In each case I looked at base models other than the ST, I looked at the ST2 package.

Handling: If you want smooth and refined the GTI wins. If you're talking about driving hard and throwing the car into a corner, the WRX felt the best of the bunch. The ST was solid but I almost felt like it lacked some road feel. The Speed3 had some torque steer but it was fun, it gave you the sense you were driving.

Power: I personally felt the Speed3 felt the best through the gears. The WRX had a little more off the line only because it hooked up better but through all six, or five in the case of the WRX, the Speed3 was my choice. The ST was close and the WRX was right there. The GTI was incredibly lacking. It felt very underpowered.

Gearbox: The ST and Speed3 felt the best, probably a tie. They shifted easy but you could feel what was going on. The GTI was smooth but had no feel to it. The WRX was a little clunky and less smooth.

Interior: The WRX seats were solid but the rest was pretty ho hum. The GTI interior was nice, loved the plaid look but the stereo was pretty lame. The ST (ST2 package) was fantastic. Great seats, stereo and the sync system was pretty neat too. But if you look at the base model the seats are weak as is the stereo. The Speed3 interior was second to the ST (again ST2) and actually, IMO, had the best head unit of the bunch. Great sounding and everything is super easy to use. If we're comparing base to base on each the Speed3 wins IMO. If you look at the upgrade options, the ST wins.

Price: With the discounts on the Speed3 right now it was the lowest price of the bunch. Speed3 - under $23K. GTI - $24K. ST - $27.5K. WRX: $27K (Note: The ST without the ST2 package is going for $24.8K, no one is discounting them yet)

Fun to Cost Ratio: They were all fun. They were all under $28K. If you own any one of them you have car that makes a great daily driver. But for me the fun to cost ratio had the Speed3 on top followed by the ST, WRX and GTI. The top 3 were close, the GTI was way out.

Long Term Reliability: The ST has no info on it, it's too new. It's always a little worrisome when you buy a first year car that has no real roots in the US. You can't compare it to the regular Focus and it's pretty different than it's Euro cousin. The Speed3 has great long term reliability ratings. The GTI, well, not so much. The WRX, they can get a little pricey and have some common flaws but as a whole, they last and can be a strong car for north of 150K miles. I liked the Speed3 in this area but we'll have to see how things shake out for the ST. So far, no reported issues and the standard Focus is a great car.

At the end of the day, like I noted above, I went with the Speed3. I really liked the Focus and they're very comparable in terms of performance but the Speed3 was quite a bit less expensive and has history, plenty of tuner parts and a large community to access with questions. The WRX was cool but they're more expensive and with far fewer ammenities unless you boost it up to the $30K + range. The GTI was fun, refined and the smoothest but reliability issues with VW's and far inferior power kicked that one out of the running first.

So there you have it, non-scientific info from a new Speed3 owner...

[moonrider_99]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the ST has no true LSD. I don't like the idea of the electronic diff though I like the torque steer steering compensation system. Long story short, with an electronic diff, excessive wheel spin is controlled with the brakes: leading to brake overheating and faster wear. Also, instead of putting the extra power down to the road through a LSD the ST is wasting it in the brakes... I don't think it's something drivers will experience unless the autox or track the car but it certainly made me step away from the ST. Especially since the RS did have a nice mechanical unit.


Here's the EVO's comparison of Focus ST with a Vauxhall. At the end, the reviewer says: Focus ST is not as much fun/is slower and it needs a LSD. He also complains of the lack of traction mid corner....

Track Battle: Ford Focus ST v Vauxhall Astra VXR - YouTube

Track Battle: Ford Focus ST v Vauxhall Astra VXR - YouTube

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by JP Patterson I just bought a brand new 2012 Speed3 and did the whole WRX, GTI, ST and Speed3 test. Here are some of my opinions that, granted are gut based since it's not like I had the opportunity to do anything scientific. In each case I looked at base models other than the ST, I looked at the ST2 package. Handling: If you want smooth and refined the GTI wins. If you're talking about driving hard and throwing the car into a corner, the WRX felt the best of the bunch. The ST was solid but I almost felt like it lacked some road feel. The Speed3 had some torque steer but it was fun, it gave you the sense you were driving. Power: I personally felt the Speed3 felt the best through the gears. The WRX had a little more off the line only because it hooked up better but through all six, or five in the case of the WRX, the Speed3 was my choice. The ST was close and the WRX was right there. The GTI was incredibly lacking. It felt very underpowered. Gearbox: The ST and Speed3 felt the best, probably a tie. They shifted easy but you could feel what was going on. The GTI was smooth but had no feel to it. The WRX was a little clunky and less smooth. Interior: The WRX seats were solid but the rest was pretty ho hum. The GTI interior was nice, loved the plaid look but the stereo was pretty lame. The ST (ST2 package) was fantastic. Great seats, stereo and the sync system was pretty neat too. But if you look at the base model the seats are weak as is the stereo. The Speed3 interior was second to the ST (again ST2) and actually, IMO, had the best head unit of the bunch. Great sounding and everything is super easy to use. If we're comparing base to base on each the Speed3 wins IMO. If you look at the upgrade options, the ST wins. Price: With the discounts on the Speed3 right now it was the lowest price of the bunch. Speed3 - under $23K. GTI - $24K. ST - $27.5K. WRX: $27K (Note: The ST without the ST2 package is going for $24.8K, no one is discounting them yet) Fun to Cost Ratio: They were all fun. They were all under $28K. If you own any one of them you have car that makes a great daily driver. But for me the fun to cost ratio had the Speed3 on top followed by the ST, WRX and GTI. The top 3 were close, the GTI was way out. Long Term Reliability: The ST has no info on it, it's too new. It's always a little worrisome when you buy a first year car that has no real roots in the US. You can't compare it to the regular Focus and it's pretty different than it's Euro cousin. The Speed3 has great long term reliability ratings. The GTI, well, not so much. The WRX, they can get a little pricey and have some common flaws but as a whole, they last and can be a strong car for north of 150K miles. I liked the Speed3 in this area but we'll have to see how things shake out for the ST. So far, no reported issues and the standard Focus is a great car. At the end of the day, like I noted above, I went with the Speed3. I really liked the Focus and they're very comparable in terms of performance but the Speed3 was quite a bit less expensive and has history, plenty of tuner parts and a large community to access with questions. The WRX was cool but they're more expensive and with far fewer ammenities unless you boost it up to the $30K + range. The GTI was fun, refined and the smoothest but reliability issues with VW's and far inferior power kicked that one out of the running first. So there you have it, non-scientific info from a new Speed3 owner...

I agree that if you value a nice interior and very good racing seats the WRX will disappoint. Don't get me wrong its not the disgusting interior of a Dodge or Chevy its just spartan and basic as can be. You can get a base model for 25.5k though. I bought mine because the bang for the buck is unmatched at the price range and I love AWD.

The ST is a cool car but they are marked way up out here. 30k or so for an ST2 package..From what I have heard it is basically the love child between the comfort of the GTI and the raw performance of an MS3.

You would think with the market being saturated with FWD turbo cars right now (include the Veloster turbo, the Abarth 500, Mini S, ect..) that the prices wouldn't be jack up so high but I guess the demand is higher than supply for most of the turbo models. You know its stupid when 2011 WRX's are selling just below for MSRP with 15k on them...

[motherfnmonsta]

What is even worst now is the new need for speed commercial has the focus ST in it as the focus point, so now all the fan boys will be like well my car was in a video game commercial eewww aawwww

[Spec]

Originally Posted by motherfnmonsta What is even worst now is the new need for speed commercial has the focus ST in it as the focus point, so now all the fan boys will be like well my car was in a video game commercial eewww aawwww

I'd just tell them " that's because it's the only way you'll ever replicate the numbers in the magazine or Actualy race it....... Now go press an x button fag"

[motherfnmonsta]

Originally Posted by Spec I'd just tell them " that's because it's the only way you'll ever replicate the numbers in the magazine or Actualy race it....... Now go press an x button fag"

So true.

[kentwat]

Typical salesman say anything to get the sale. As for the car rags they are paid by someone. Whomever has the most money they set the tests up to cater to their cars. Speed3 for the win!

btw It's a Furd.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by kentwat Typical salesman say anything to get the sale. As for the car rags they are paid by someone. Whomever has the most money they set the tests up to cater to their cars. Speed3 for the win! btw It's a Furd.

Would you be saying that if the Speed 3 won?

The ST is legit.

What ever happened to being a car guy first and foremost? I seriously don't get how any MS3 driver can hate on this car. It is very close to being a MS3 with a better interior....

And that "Furd" is a European Ford nothing like the Ford shitboxes from years ago.

[Spec]

Don't care about the car, care about the lies. Don't make up shit to sell me a car or to make the one I've got look bad when it isn't. Being a car enthusiast, you should care about the car, what it can do, and heritage. So when someone takes a giant shit on all three of those you get pissed.

[kentwat]

Writers can play with numbers all they want. Maybe the guy missed a shift a few times in the Mazda? There are plenty of variables. I know they are a lot like I searched a while on little hatches and the Mazda won. I drove they Focus also. As long as it has a blue oval on it I'll pass thank you. Those wrx are high on the list also but I chose the Speed3. I like all the shit that I get about the smiley face.

[jseams]

Originally Posted by Spec Don't care about the car, care about the lies. Don't make up shit to sell me a car or to make the one I've got look bad when it isn't. Being a car enthusiast, you should care about the car, what it can do, and heritage. So when someone takes a giant shit on all three of those you get pissed.

This exactly...

R&T even went so far as to remove the test summary numbers for both the GTI and the MS3 that regularly appear at the end of the issue. Kinda puzzling why they would pull statistics that were always there - unless they didn't jive with the current "comparo" (and they didn't).

It's not that the MS3 lost - it's that they seemed to get numbers radically different than any other test of these cars that any other magazine (even themselves) or reviewer has ever established.

We read these magazines not for subjective opinions on what is "better" but for hard numbers - when we suddenly can't trust those numbers... well, it makes some of us angry. Especially when we just renewed our subscriptions. lol

[JDR767]

Originally Posted by moonrider_99 Here's the EVO's comparison of Focus ST with a Vauxhall. At the end, the reviewer says: Focus ST is not as much fun/is slower and it needs a LSD. He also complains of the lack of traction mid corner.... Track Battle: Ford Focus ST v Vauxhall Astra VXR - YouTube

I must say...I dislike the whole "sound" of the ST in that video, almost as if it was trying to hard to sound mean. Had I not previously known there was a sound symposer in it I would have started to question...it does indeed sound (to me anyways) very "electronic" and somewhat dronally (did I just make that word up?) annoying.

[Mizzle]

The emails have discontinued.

That being said:

No it won't. Beat a MazdaSpeed 3 I mean. Granted, Ford used it's ownership in Mazda to steal a ton of intellectual property (albeit legally,) but that doesn't mean they're smart enough to get the ST right. Anyways, good luck with your sale but don't lie to make mon... ...wait, you're a dealership employee. Never mind. 2013 FORD FOCUS ST's

yes it does, and it drive circles around it too. Focus ST vs mazdaSPEED3 - YouTube 2013 Ford Focus ST vs. 2012 Volkswagen GTI vs. 2012 Mazdaspeed 3 ? Hot Hatchback Comparison Test ? RoadandTrack.com

Please don't quote me propaganda. I don't know how much Ford paid Road & Track, but if they consider what they do actual journalism, they should fire themselves. To quote: "The Mazda engine is strong, but by the time it’s approaching its 6700 rpm redline it’s starting to tail off, and heading beyond to the 7400 rpm rev limiter doesn’t do much good." and "Despite all that power, the Mazda slugged to 60 mph in 6.5 seconds..." I'm really not sure who told them how to drive, but it's a well-known fact to shift before redline on a stock car. The average reported 0-60 time for the MS3 is 5.5 seconds (with some hitting 5.2.) Can you flat-foot shift the stock trans in the ST? No. LSD? Oh, wait, that's right - Ford couldn't even be bothered to put an LSD in it. Upgrading the factory LSD to a Quaife in the MS3 yielded little gains - meaning the stock LSD does a fine job. Let's talk dyno charts. The Ford peaks and falls off fast. If not for "overboost," they'd be in real trouble in the numbers game. That little turbo is getting worked just to make the baseline numbers the ST makes and with an integrated manifold, you'll have a tough time convincing tuners to get interested since any turbo will have to match the stock flange. At any rate, I'm not going to continue further - I expected a dealer employee to fib, but outright lie is another thing. Take yours to the track someday and line up against a bone-stock MS3 and see what happens (with real drivers behind the wheel.)

[JP Patterson]

Originally Posted by dsmluck I agree that if you value a nice interior and very good racing seats the WRX will disappoint. Don't get me wrong its not the disgusting interior of a Dodge or Chevy its just spartan and basic as can be. You can get a base model for 25.5k though. I bought mine because the bang for the buck is unmatched at the price range and I love AWD. The ST is a cool car but they are marked way up out here. 30k or so for an ST2 package..From what I have heard it is basically the love child between the comfort of the GTI and the raw performance of an MS3. You would think with the market being saturated with FWD turbo cars right now (include the Veloster turbo, the Abarth 500, Mini S, ect..) that the prices wouldn't be jack up so high but I guess the demand is higher than supply for most of the turbo models. You know its stupid when 2011 WRX's are selling just below for MSRP with 15k on them...

I absolutely agree, it's not like the WRX interior is like the Malibu rental I had last week when away on business (you want to talk about a steaming turd!) it's just not as refined. I was unable, here in NJ anyway, to find any WRX on a lot for under $27K and because there are currently so few, there's no sticker negotiating. Most dealerships have two or less WRX's on the lot and they don't seem to last. But regardless, there's no right answer. The WRX is cool, really enjoyed driving it and like the style but the MS3 was less expensive, had better ammenities and I feel in the long run it'll be less expensive to maintain and I found the MS3 to have a little more get up and go. With that said, we'll likely be buying a WRX for my wife next year so I'll be very happy to have them both in the driveway!

JP

[Geo13]

Just stopped by a local dealer on Saturday....as always noone approached me so I checked the window sticker and shock wasn't the word for it!!!! They wanted $30,599 added a $2000 market value markup....I left immediately.

[SpdDemon89]

Drove it and it feels nice. Its definitely the best out of its class. still i dont like hte looks.
its gears are nicer than the speeds and 3rd is really nice. but higher gears definitely slack off.

i feel like they should have just done the RS for america.

although my speed is a rocket, the ST feels like it would be more refined stock vs stock.

plus it has buttons. buttons controlling buttons. buttons on top of buttons...

I feel like they went soft on the power with the ST. i dont understand why they cant do the extra 20hp just to win the war.

Edit- to add- i will keep my speed and smoke these ST's.......

[duappleganger]

Does anyone know why they didn't just bring the RS to America?

[JDR767]

Originally Posted by duappleganger Does anyone know why they didn't just bring the RS to America?

I'm looking at it this way. People are going bananas for the ST and its already over priced...what will people pay for the RS when they do bring it over?

I could be wrong, probably am, and its the first thing that popped into my head when I read your post *shrugs*