Look at this crock of shit from a local Ford dealer....

[lug]

Originally Posted by torq You have me pegged quite wrongly sir, I'm in no way a mazda 'fanboi' as you so colloquially put it, and I at no time advanced that the MS3 was a better or worse car than the ST. I disdain the domestic car companies for their string of bad decisions over the last 2 decades and wouldn't want to be associated with or seen to give vindication to such. That is why I wouldn't want the logo staring me in the face, I don't care if it's subaru, mazda, nissan, honda, whatever, I like the imports.

I have to strongly disagree with one statement you've made here. Past two decades?!?!?! You've totally left out the 80's! Possibly the worst decade in US automobile history!

[jseams]

This thread has devolved into "my subjective opinion is better than yours because I read another subjective opinion that said the ST is better"

... along with the intermittant "The interior rocks!" and "it has RECAROS" so it must mean it's faster! type dialog.

I had thought this thread was about an apparent discrepancy in reported performance numbers and not which car is prettier....

- and for those calling out others in this thread for being MS3 "fanbois"... um, duh? This is after all MSF.org, I'd hope that the members here, for the most part, own MS3's because they happen to like them - which brings up the other question. If you think the MS3 is so fucking ugly and slow and the ST is your wet dream, what the fuck are you doing on our forums?

I've even noticed that a few of you have moved on and become permanent members of the ST forums (and owners) - even going so far as to start to subtely discredit and remove yourselves from MSF. I'm not going to call you out at this point, you all know who you are... but it's more than obvious that your "fanboism" is directly related to which car you happen to currently own. You have a new girlfriend it seems - so maybe it's time to find a different hangout since you seem to have a sudden disdain for your old one.

[Neuspeed]

Originally Posted by Pu Manchu Wall of text == hard-on for Focus ST

Not at all... This is a point of view based on objectivity and common sense.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Pu Manchu Wall of text == hard-on for Focus ST

Why not? The car is rated at 25/32 mpg, has good power, favors kicking the rear out over front push, allows you to put the power down coming out of a corner, and has a fantastic interior that gives the GTI a run for its money. Not really seeing a downside with this car outside the intrinsic one with it being FWD. If you are going to get a hard on over a car you could do a lot worse than the ST.

[Spec]

My penis stinks.

[Pu Manchu]

dsmluck the only flaw with your points is that you lifted them all from entertainment magazines.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by jseams This thread has devolved into "my subjective opinion is better than yours because I read another subjective opinion that said the ST is better" ... along with the intermittant "The interior rocks!" and "it has RECAROS" so it must mean it's faster! type dialog. I had thought this thread was about an apparent discrepancy in reported performance numbers and not which car is prettier.... - and for those calling out others in this thread for being MS3 "fanbois"... um, duh? This is after all MSF.org, I'd hope that the members here, for the most part, own MS3's because they happen to like them - which brings up the other question. If you think the MS3 is so fucking ugly and slow and the ST is your wet dream, what the fuck are you doing on our forums? I've even noticed that a few of you have moved on and become permanent members of the ST forums (and owners) - even going so far as to start to subtely discredit and remove yourselves from MSF. I'm not going to call you out at this point, you all know who you are... but it's more than obvious that your "fanboism" is directly related to which car you happen to currently own. You have a new girlfriend it seems - so maybe it's time to find a different hangout since you seem to have a sudden disdain for your old one.

Someone that likes the ST doesn't have to dislike the MS3 and some of the people that post here that have moved on to other cars still post here because they like seeing how the platform is doing. Loved my 2009 MS3 and I pushed it as far as I wanted to during the 2 1/2 years of ownership.

Thing is this forum was built on pushing the envelope and finding out how and where the weak spots were in the platform. Putting on blinders and pretending you drive a fucking Ferrari does nothing to further this. Granted most of the kinks have been worked out but there is a difference between people who love a car for the good and the bad and those who bullshit and turn it into some sort of ego contest.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Pu Manchu dsmluck the only flaw with your points is that you lifted them all from entertainment magazines.

I agree. My point was the ST is a legit car contrary to the way some people were talking about it on this forum. Granted I probably shouldn't talk it up too much until I have driven one. Might happen in the next few weeks though as my main complaint about my WRX is the interior and gas mileage (although running ethanol really ends up costing about the same as 91 octane in the end). Love the WRX but I miss having a hatch and getting good gas mileage.

[Limeybastard]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Why not? The car is rated at 25/32 mpg, has good power, favors kicking the rear out over front push, allows you to put the power down coming out of a corner, and has a fantastic interior that gives the GTI a run for its money. Not really seeing a downside with this car outside the intrinsic one with it being FWD. If you are going to get a hard on over a car you could do a lot worse than the ST.

If that ford st was another brand then I would have bought one.The MPG is great ( especially for the miles i would do) as is the torque reduction system. The Focus ST was on my short list but I pulled the trigger on a speed. I prefer something with a bit of a track record excuse the pun. I hope the ST turns out to be a good reliable car but I don't want to be lab rat testing this. I'm sorry but its hard for me to believe that Ford has turned it around.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Limeybastard If that ford st was another brand then I would have bought one.The MPG is great ( especially for the miles i would do) as is the torque reduction system. The Focus ST was on my short list but I pulled the trigger on a speed. I prefer something with a bit of a track record excuse the pun. I hope the ST turns out to be a good reliable car but I don't want to be lab rat testing this. I'm sorry but its hard for me to believe that Ford has turned it around.

The ST is built off of the experience from previous European versions. The 2.0L ecoboost has been around since 2010. While the car may be new to us it is hardly something Ford pulled out of their ass this year.

[embibb]

my eyes are bleeding.....

[Menace1]

The ford is now a second gen hatch that was geared towards the euro market to rival the VW, peugeot, ect.. it has a volvo engine, and german suspension. everything about it screams im ford and i dont know what im doing so ill hire the people that do.

thats why i dont like the car its a god damn mutt has no real pedigree. its a ford. and every ford ive ever owned has cost me more money than it was worth.
It has like racing hints throughout the car making it appeal to a younger group.
aside from the better seats and better sat nav and the german suspension, its about as dull as the last few thousand focuses you have driven by still sitting at the dealership.

I got my speed3 over that for very obvious reasons. it has character, a better pedigree, its violent nature, its comfortable well designed interior for a mature go fast enthusiast,
Manages 0-62mph in 6.1 seconds from its turbocharged 2.3-litre motor, that pumps out 260bhp and 280lb ft of torque. It isn't respectable. It's mildly terrifying. And that actually makes it quite charming. It's a solid car with a proven engine and transmission.
And paying 23000 for mine and the ford being 27000. ill take that extra loot and have the mazda out perform the ford in every way. and still have money left over to donate to MSF. from corners to straights. acceleration to breaking. the speed will win for the same money as the ford.
every video ive ever watched with great drivers in both cars run almost identical to eachother. in retrospect depending when you have bought your speed and the price you paid compared to the st's price of 27000. its just not worth buying the ford. like a previous member said the base package is rediculous. if you dont upgrade to the st2 package you dont get your rainbow colored recaro half leather seats. and if you want full leather its even more.
now that this is stated, even if the ford is slightly better, its the newcomer. and with it being behind the production of the speed3, the speed will be on the leading edge of sales every time.

pick what you desire is the point. sorry about going off on a tangent.

close thread.

Mazdaspeed for life mutha fuckas!!!

[jack_hammer]

[jfisher]

I guess the way I look at it is even though I love the 32mpg, aesthetics and interior of the ST, I could give a crap less about that slightly better handling that I could easily solve with a few aftermarket parts on the MS3. How many people can honestly say they fully get to utilize the better handling of the ST? Or day to day basis? Last time I checked I don't really do powerslides getting onto the highway from an exit ramp everyday. Either of these cars would be a daily driver for me and I'd much rather feel a 14.1 car stock day to day rather than a 15.0 car day to day. 15.0 out of a small'ish, turbocharged, brand new hatch is embarrassing IMO.

[lug]

Originally Posted by jfisher I guess the way I look at it is even though I love the 32mpg, aesthetics and interior of the ST, I could give a crap less about that slightly better handling that I could easily solve with a few aftermarket parts on the MS3. How many people can honestly say they fully get to utilize the better handling of the ST? Or day to day basis? Last time I checked I don't really do powerslides getting onto the highway from an exit ramp everyday. Either of these cars would be a daily driver for me and I'd much rather feel a 14.1 car stock day to day rather than a 15.0 car day to day. 15.0 out of a small'ish, turbocharged, brand new hatch is embarrassing IMO.

15 second car? I've seen a couple of 14.3's and 14.4's stock already and a 13.9 with RMM and CBE. I'll bet someone will hit about a 14.1 stock. Not quite MS3's 13.9 but pretty damn close and quite a feat for less displacement and a smaller turbo.

[MS3MYK]

Originally Posted by Menace1 The ford is now a second gen hatch that was geared towards the euro market to rival the VW, peugeot, ect.. it has a volvo engine, and german suspension. everything about it screams im ford and i dont know what im doing so ill hire the people that do. thats why i dont like the car its a god damn mutt has no real pedigree. its a ford. and every ford ive ever owned has cost me more money than it was worth. It has like racing hints throughout the car making it appeal to a younger group. aside from the better seats and better sat nav and the german suspension, its about as dull as the last few thousand focuses you have driven by still sitting at the dealership. I got my speed3 over that for very obvious reasons. it has character, a better pedigree, its violent nature, its comfortable well designed interior for a mature go fast enthusiast, Manages 0-62mph in 6.1 seconds from its turbocharged 2.3-litre motor, that pumps out 260bhp and 280lb ft of torque. It isn't respectable. It's mildly terrifying. And that actually makes it quite charming. It's a solid car with a proven engine and transmission. And paying 23000 for mine and the ford being 27000. ill take that extra loot and have the mazda out perform the ford in every way. and still have money left over to donate to MSF. from corners to straights. acceleration to breaking. the speed will win for the same money as the ford. every video ive ever watched with great drivers in both cars run almost identical to eachother. in retrospect depending when you have bought your speed and the price you paid compared to the st's price of 27000. its just not worth buying the ford. like a previous member said the base package is rediculous. if you dont upgrade to the st2 package you dont get your rainbow colored recaro half leather seats. and if you want full leather its even more. now that this is stated, even if the ford is slightly better, its the newcomer. and with it being behind the production of the speed3, the speed will be on the leading edge of sales every time. pick what you desire is the point. sorry about going off on a tangent. close thread. Mazdaspeed for life mutha fuckas!!!

Where's the Volvo motor??? This is about the ST, not the RS!

If Ford ever brings the RS out here, the Hot Hatch game is over...nothing will compete with that car! But this thread isn't about the RS.

Ford > all!

Sent using my EVO LTE

[Menace1]

Originally Posted by MS3MYK Where's the Volvo motor??? This is about the ST, not the RS! If Ford ever brings the RS out here, the Hot Hatch game is over...nothing will compete with that car! But this thread isn't about the RS. Ford > all! Sent using my EVO LTE

Read this encyclopedia bro.
this engine has been in fords yes, as well as volvo's.
I just see a whore of a car. I would like it better if ford would up its respect level through rarety like our ms3 and ms6.
Ive even read from the brits that they like it but would never buy one. and they said our ms3 was a raging torque-steering monster and yet strangly addictive.
i dont know. I guess ive made my choice, and love the choice ive made.
Ill tell you what though if I ever get a chance to go a quarter mile with one, with a good driver in it. id show them that 4000 dollar gap of money well spent to rival the focus at 27000.

Ford EcoBoost engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ford_EcoBoost_engine

[lug]

Originally Posted by Menace1 Read this encyclopedia bro. this engine has been in fords yes, as well as volvo's. I just see a whore of a car. I would like it better if ford would up its respect level through rarety like our ms3 and ms6. Ive even read from the brits that they like it but would never buy one. and they said our ms3 was a raging torque-steering monster and yet strangly addictive. i dont know. I guess ive made my choice, and love the choice ive made. Ill tell you what though if I ever get a chance to go a quarter mile with one, with a good driver in it. id show them that 4000 dollar gap of money well spent to rival the focus at 27000. Ford EcoBoost engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There isn't a $4000 dollar gap in price. It's like the initial cost of any new car. In 6 months they will be the same because their MSRP's are the same. You are comparing a high trim level of one car to a low trim level of another. The MRSP of a MS3 with a tech package is about $26K to 27K, the base is 24K....right on target with the ST. Can you get a better discount on the MS3? Sure, partly thanks to the ST showing up. The MS3 had no real competition in it's class in the US before that.

[Menace1]

Originally Posted by lug There isn't a $4000 dollar gap in price. It's like the initial cost of any new car. In 6 months they will be the same because their MSRP's are the same. You are comparing a high trim level of one car to a low trim level of another. The MRSP of a MS3 with a tech package is about $26K to 27K, the base is 24K....right on target with the ST. Can you get a better discount on the MS3? Sure, partly thanks to the ST showing up. The MS3 had no real competition in it's class in the US before that.

I got my brand new 2012 ms3 for 23000. because i haggled. the tech package is useless witch we should know already. the only reason for people really wanting this ford is based upon the st2 package for 27000. thats my 4000 dollar diff. i dont need the mazdas sat nav. i got my own. Plus look at the difference in the value of each brand. if you took a mazda ms3 owned it for a year put 10,000 miles on it the depreciation on it maybe at most 1500 bucks. in a ford focus same year, same price it loses value 2 to 3 times as much. so after your done paying off your ford it will be worth squat.

[Cujo]

Originally Posted by MS3MYK Funny considering your already driving a fucking Ford Lol. Ford > all. I'll be that way till the day I die! Sent using my EVO LTE

It's funny how so many talk shit about Ford when like 50% of the parts on our MS3s say "Ford Motor Company" or "FMC" on them....

[Easter Bunny]

QFT

Originally Posted by jack_hammer

[lug]

Originally Posted by Menace1 I got my brand new 2012 ms3 for 23000. because i haggled. the tech package is useless witch we should know already. the only reason for people really wanting this ford is based upon the st2 package for 27000. thats my 4000 dollar diff. i dont need the mazdas sat nav. i got my own. Plus look at the difference in the value of each brand. if you took a mazda ms3 owned it for a year put 10,000 miles on it the depreciation on it maybe at most 1500 bucks. in a ford focus same year, same price it loses value 2 to 3 times as much. so after your done paying off your ford it will be worth squat.

Like I said, your comparison is the Mazda base model vs. the Ford upgraded model. The ST MSRP starts at $23700. In 6 months, you will probably be able to get more off a Ford MSRP than a Mazda MSRP if history is an example. Your $4000 difference just isn't apples to apples.

[El_Diablo]

Just an FYI, the ST, being an SVT developed vehicle, will NOT be eligable for any rebates unless they are ST specific which is highly unlikely.

We have ours in stock now and I think we might be willing to drop a little from MSRP but not much. Really it will vary by dealer. Like I posted previously, while we're at or under MSRP I know my wifes dealership was above. Just how the game is played.... Demand raises prices, lack of demand lowers them. I personally dont think there is enough demand around here that they'll sell theirs for the current asking price when we're sitting 20 minutes away with the same vehicle for a lot less.

[Menace1]

From an unbiased point of view:

Originally Posted by warlockfan92 for anyone who cares: Drove an ST today, heres my opinion. The interior is nice it had the leather recaro's and the nav system. The shift knob was in an awkward position, i had to cock my arm in just a bit for it to feel right and the throw was a mile long (granted i am used to a ss). Peppy engine, however when not in 'sport mode' it feels dull. I felt like i had to wind it out just to get it moving. Tranny was a little notchy but i never had a problem engaging gear even when getting on it and shifting fast. Clutch throw was extremely short as well. It makes a wonderful noise though partially due to it having 2 speakers that simulate engine noise as you drive, other than that its relatively quiet. It didnt feel fast. even when getting it going, i was kinda waiting for the kick in the face like you get when the turbo spools on the speed, but it has a more gradual power curve. The steering felt a little numb as well. I didnt get to take it on any good twist y roads but i took it around a few corners at higher speeds and it held up nicely. Suspension is sporty but not too stiff where you feel every bump in the road. All in all, its a nice car but ill stick to the ms3. They wanted 28,xxx for the one i drove with the st2 package

[Bosox]

If I were to be in the market to buy, I would buy the ST over the MS3 with one distinct caveat.. I wasgoing to stay stock. In my opinion the ST has better handling, looks, interior, and gearbox. Add to that the much better MPG, it would be a no brainer for me. I drove the ST and was quite impressed. Enough so that I started formulating how I might stock out. As I was considering this on my drive home I jumped on the freeway, punched it an giggled a bit.

I am not yet ready to drive a car and leave it as is. Next year I turn 40 and maybe then I will magically be ready, but I doubt it. My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that there is not much more to be coaxed from the ST. My car is much faster than a stock ST. But I am and have been impressed with a lot of what Ford has done recently.

[Limeybastard]

Originally Posted by Bosox If I were to be in the market to buy, I would buy the ST over the MS3 with one distinct caveat.. I wasgoing to stay stock. In my opinion the ST has better handling, looks, interior, and gearbox. Add to that the much better MPG, it would be a no brainer for me. I drove the ST and was quite impressed. Enough so that I started formulating how I might stock out. As I was considering this on my drive home I jumped on the freeway, punched it an giggled a bit. I am not yet ready to drive a car and leave it as is. Next year I turn 40 and maybe then I will magically be ready, but I doubt it. My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that there is not much more to be coaxed from the ST. My car is much faster than a stock ST. But I am and have been impressed with a lot of what Ford has done recently.

With most of you forum users bought your ms3 before the st was available I can see your bitterness. Don't worry, uncle Limey did his research on both cars before making his mind up on an ms3. To read the st forums and go see all the issues they have already. I personally don't trust Ford cars. And yes, 4k more for the st2 can kiss my right happy sack.

[G26]

Who gives a fuck. Mah accord has more power than both.


Sent from my...

[jfisher]

Originally Posted by G26 Who gives a fuck. Mah accord has more power than both. Sent from my...

Cool story bro. Don't think anybody cares about how much power a Honda Accord has on a Mazdaspeed forum.

[G26]

Originally Posted by jfisher Cool story bro. Don't think anybody cares about how much power a Honda Accord has on a Mazdaspeed forum.

Lol look at this guy.


Sent from my balls via my penis

[Menace1]

Originally Posted by G26 Who gives a fuck. Mah accord has more power than both. Sent from my...

the accord isnt bad off the line. havent seen to many though. i looked at the 2010 that year. i couldnt pull the trigger. i didnt see room for many mods at the time though. how is its mod catagory now?

[G26]

Originally Posted by Menace1 the accord isnt bad off the line. havent seen to many though. i looked at the 2010 that year. i couldnt pull the trigger. i didnt see room for many mods at the time though. how is its mod catagory now?

What mods? Lol. The mod ability sucks but that's one reason I bought it, didn't want to be tempted. I just did a k&n intake.

Here's what's available: intake, ported Im, cat replacement pipes (header is part of head), cat back exhaust, underdrive pulley. But there is no tuning solution so going past intake is stupid.

Btw my post about the accords power wasn't supposed to be taken seriously (although I haz moar)


Sent from my balls via my penis

[Menace1]

Originally Posted by G26 What mods? Lol. The mod ability sucks but that's one reason I bought it, didn't want to be tempted. I just did a k&n intake. Here's what's available: intake, ported Im, cat replacement pipes (header is part of head), cat back exhaust, underdrive pulley. But there is no tuning solution so going past intake is stupid. Btw my post about the accords power wasn't supposed to be taken seriously (although I haz moar) Sent from my balls via my penis

I guess thats why i havent seen to many. i thought it was a great platform to start from, i guess honda only loves its down syndrome son more. aww poor civic.

way off topic. im done

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by Limeybastard With most of you forum users bought your ms3 before the st was available I can see your bitterness. Don't worry, uncle Limey did his research on both cars before making his mind up on an ms3. To read the st forums and go see all the issues they have already. I personally don't trust Ford cars. And yes, 4k more for the st2 can kiss my right happy sack.

we've covered this. your car is a ford in a pokemon costume.

Originally Posted by G26 Who gives a fuck. Mah accord has more power than both. Sent from my...

fuck yo honda nigga!

[Bosox]

Originally Posted by Limeybastard With most of you forum users bought your ms3 before the st was available I can see your bitterness. Don't worry, uncle Limey did his research on both cars before making his mind up on an ms3. To read the st forums and go see all the issues they have already. I personally don't trust Ford cars. And yes, 4k more for the st2 can kiss my right happy sack.

How the Fuck did you get bitterness out of that? Douche

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Cujo It's funny how so many talk shit about Ford when like 50% of the parts on our MS3s say "Ford Motor Company" or "FMC" on them....

Seriously. What the fuck is that about? The MS3 is as much of a "whore" car as the focus. You guys honestly think Mazda designed and used all in house parts for the MS3? Fuck no they raided the Volvo and Ford parts bins as well. This is why I dislike fanbois. Its not that you can't like your car better than the others in the segment its that you can't carry on a logical conversation about it because you keep spewing bullshit. I am sure there are many reasons why people pick the MS3 over the ST but it shouldn't be over imaginary shit.

[lug]

Originally Posted by dsmluck SI am sure there are many reasons why people pick the MS3 over the ST but it shouldn't be over imaginary shit.

It should really be over which car contains the most Unicorn Jizz.

[Limeybastard]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Seriously. What the fuck is that about? The MS3 is as much of a "whore" car as the focus. You guys honestly think Mazda designed and used all in house parts for the MS3? Fuck no they raided the Volvo and Ford parts bins as well. This is why I dislike fanbois. Its not that you can't like your car better than the others in the segment its that you can't carry on a logical conversation about it because you keep spewing bullshit. I am sure there are many reasons why people pick the MS3 over the ST but it shouldn't be over imaginary shit.

So why is Ford reliability worse than Mazdas ? Muppet.

[Menace1]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Seriously. What the fuck is that about? The MS3 is as much of a "whore" car as the focus. You guys honestly think Mazda designed and used all in house parts for the MS3? Fuck no they raided the Volvo and Ford parts bins as well. This is why I dislike fanbois. Its not that you can't like your car better than the others in the segment its that you can't carry on a logical conversation about it because you keep spewing bullshit. I am sure there are many reasons why people pick the MS3 over the ST but it shouldn't be over imaginary shit.

by the way im very calm and not yelling at you.
lets read the encyclopedia on the mazdaspeed3 and the mzr together and see that the only non mazda made designed part was the volvo brakes. the complete drivetrain in the ms3 is 100% mazda since 2001. part ownered by ford since 2003 for there pos non modded duratec engines. ford destroyed the reliability of the mzr during the years until the late fusion. only the mazdas version of there own engine designed used was made to be great after the first gen disi mzr speeds won so many engine awards up from 2006-2009. from 2009-2012 ford went back to the drawing table and grabbed the mzr as fast as they could realizing there lack of recognition and poor design from there co owners engine made them feel stupid, they realized they actually had something as part owner. and guess what they where made for???????????????????? you guessed it the 2.0 eco boost. so yeah i might be damn that sucks that our proven drivetrain for our car is what makes the st what it is in performance. and 750,000 cars total in the usa as of this year and 1.3 million world wide as of this year as well. our original mazda genuine setup is no longer our own so as a current mazda owner and a previous since 2003 i love em, besides the duratec 3.0 fail, I will tell ford to lick my balls till i get over it.
i had so many issues with my mazda6 s 3.0v6 its rediculous. I went through 3 engines, one tranny, 4 cats, the radiator, water pump, 3 passenger side axels, the wishbone rmm, and it spent a total of slightly over 2 complete years in a damn dealership unstreatable. besides all those drivetrain issues it had great interior and exterior design from mazda. and i dreamed of converting it to a ms6 design. but ford screwed it so much it didnt make sense to try so i traded it to a dealer that would evenly squash what i needed in repairs for the 4th engine and install. now i have the good mazda i wanted. and ill give ford some credit after some damn consistency.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by Spiral1183 Your car is built with Ford parts

Strangely Ford built parts on an engine licensed from Mazda... I haven't had a chance to look at the ST motor closely but it's likely an evolved Mazda L/MZR, so I wouldn't grin too much about a Mazda with Ford parts, I do grin quite a bit at the idea that Ford liked Mazda motors enough to mass produce them, in effect reducing the price of the Mazda I happily drive daily.


But it isn't respectable. It's mildly terrifying. And that actually makes it quite appealing. - Mazda 3 MPS review, Matthew Jones, Top Gear.