That's surely an apples/oranges comparison. The N/A K series motor STARTS making power where our turbocharged motor starts trailing off.

If I remember correctly, the 3 inch exhaust on a K20 is wasted unless it's connected to a decent race header. Those guys also use 3.5-4.0" intakes with good results, even on stock cams! The stock head just flows that well...

My example is about as pure as possible of showing the pumping loss differnce as it was a GTX3071 at 100% WGDC in both cases where the weak link was my stock BPV leaking...

Same ambient temp, same road, same tune, and same boost...

My results mirror exactly what you're seeing. The gen2 however looks like sees higher gains due to a more restrictive OE exhaust.

Like this?

Love hearing the turbine spool up and down but that must get tiring on a long drive.

its actually not that loud inside at all. I was expecting to hate it at highway cruising but one can actually live with it

That is nasty!!!


Sent while granny shiftin' and not double clutching like I should

Your neighbors must hate cold starts.

I just jizzed in my pants..

You dont know about "quiet that shit down at cold start" trick?

Sent from Pu

For a long time, I've been with Rob on this. This is the only platform I've ever seen that disregards such a simple, common, and effective upgrade so quickly. I believe a larger portion of it is that people just don't want to believe the gains partially because of cost involved as well as the varying results from different manufactures. If my wife wasn't driving the car it would most likely already have a catback as I believe the results are well worth it.

If I don't go full retard when I do the CBE, I'll make sure to do some comparison logs. I'll hopefully be taking the ko4 to it's absolute limits this year so the results should be quite telling.

I would imagine any 3 inch catback should show similar performance gains but the systems with better fit/finish from Cobb/UR/Corksport aren't cheap. For most of us just doing bolt-ons, that $$ is probably better spent elsewhere IMHO.

Every flow part adds "something" if well designed and installed properly. The bigger question is - what is the downside, is it worth it, and is there an alternative to arriving at the same power level? No one said the CBE does nothing.

yeah the argument has always been the money is better spent elsewhere.

exactly, most of the "dont get a catback" responses are in some noob intro thread where the guy had a honda before and thinks that dropping $850 on a catback is the best way to pickup 30 hp.

Exactly, and most of the time people inquiring about cat backs are stock or close to stock. Imo, yes there are other modifications that are more important but doesn't mean we should completely rule it out.

It's more about when you get it, thats going to determine how much gain you'll see.

In my case, I had relegated it to last on my list if ever because of the perception of minimal gains. If Rob says he often sees better gains from CBE than a DP, then it's time we pressure a vendor to make us an axle back at a tolerable price.

I searched the company that @NCspecV81; used and didn't find anything for Mazda at all, haven't called them and probably won't because my Speed Daddy goes under the knife in a couple hours.

I'm going to go ahead and say that yes, CBE prices are absurd. But, there are options if you want the performance without a graceful sound.....like Speed Daddy. You may have to use a mallet and torch gun to get it fit, but it'll produce probably the same results performance-wise as more expensive options.

Well if you travel over to the ST forum you can talk to OCDSpeed (Ollie) about the axleback. I know he has a jig for it since it was hanging on the underside of my car.

The real question is how much did you pay?

PM'd.

If you guys feel that the majority of the CBE exhaust prices are a bit high for what you are getting, you can usually find a custom exhaust shop in your area that can custom build you an exhaust for a few hundred less than many of the CBE's available now.

You can also kind of customize the sound if you go this route, because many of the shops will start the car and let you hear the volume and tone and add resonators or delete resonators while you are there.

That being said, I know that there are some vendors working on a single exit for the gen2 that should be much cheaper than most of the dual muffler design set-ups available now, and offer weight saving if you are ok with the second exit being left open.

There's more than one working on this?

I know one company is taking it very seriously, the other, it has been suggested to and they responded with something to the effect of "interesting".

I know Corksport mentioned something about it a while ago. Could be wrong but I think they ended up dropping it because of the small market for it. I know I would have bought one

You can also consider putting in a cutout in the test pipe. A fraction of the price and can be turned on and off very easily while giving you more flow than a large catback.

I'm sure that wouldn't be ear piercing at all lol

At least it's only sometimes :). You can rig in a nice red NAWS switch for it.

My logs are consistently 10-15hp higher since I've gone 3" vs stock. I also didn't have an issue with creep, I do now.

I found side by side images I took before installing my Mangaflow if anyone want to compare a 3" inch exhaust to stock.

I was surprised at the difference when I first examined the stock midpipe. It has tons of restrictions that have to be eating up some ponies on a well flowing speed. It's hard to tell from the picture but the pipe going into the resonator actually reduce to fit inside the res. Also as you can see all the bends on the stocker appear to be crushed causing more restrictions.

Minus the stupid flange that needs to be fixed, the Mangaflow is well worth the money and gains you get. It's a lot less than most of the competitors even after fixing the flange. You can have this shipped to your door for $500.

Also I agree with @rfinkle2; that a shop can custom make you something for less than you might think.

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...827_081830.jpg

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...7_082941-1.jpg


Fixed flange
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...tysurfsa/7.jpg

damn it. You fuckers are going to make me buy a CBE now too.

I know right? Son of a bitch. I liked when I didnt think it would do anything for me. That was cheaper.

My sanity has been restored - the below pic shows the mid chassis brace post-op. Those two humps you see are one piece all the way across OEM, significantly reducing clearance. The shop plasma cut that notch out, hammered down the sides and welded it back up. No more resonator pinging off that SOB.

I also had a resonator added to my test pipe - Dynomax 16" bullet fit perfectly and now the vibes in cabin are gone and the highway drone has been cut in half. (very tolerable, and I'm a vagina about NVH)

Total investment $350 CBE, $50 resonator, $100 labor. The only part of that really necessary is making some extra room over the chassis brace, and that can probably be accomplished with some flat washers and bending the rear hook out of your way, but I wanted something guaranteed to work the first time.

http://i.imgur.com/lelxbb3l.jpg

Almost forgot to mention LOLOLOLOL at you northerners and your filthy undercarriages :tongue:

Do we think the majority of the restriction is in the muffler? I have been considering hacking up my stock exhaust to go single outlet with a different muffler......... After I win the award for loudest stock muffler. In 40,000 miles it's completely shot, sounds very similar to the straight pipe above.

corksport does now offer the single exit for the PU...

Yeh only 500 bones. TOTALLLLLLLY worth it.


Sent while granny shiftin' and not double clutching like I should

The piping could be a restriction as well. I would think a majority of the restriction is the muffler itself though.

I didn't know they officially released that yet. Very nice.

Teddy will be running that on his car.

Obx has a turbo back for $525 shipped. No real fitment issues and is quiet. That is what i will be getting soon. Only thing is muffler style is the same as oem. Being that the obx muffler is smaller and has a 3 inch opening, i hope that equates to better flow.

Only data taking will tell.

Im going the mufflar less route to take full advantage of the monies I spent.


Sent while granny shiftin' and not double clutching like I should

CBE makes power.. It just doenst make the power cat deletes and DP make.

And my cat free exhaust is quieter than stock thanks to the Greddy elite exhaust