MS3 cost of ownershop > $5k per year? (stock)

[HawkeyeGeoff]

I'm in with @Dano; on this one. Really the only common problem you've listed so far is the smokey K04.

[WetzMS3]

Salvage title vehicles should come with some sort of red flag. Oh, wait...

[Whiteboy]

I bought my 2009 brand new and never had one issue with it until I had to try and pass California smog...pop goes the engine cause the engine goes pop. That's a really expensive mistake ($9k).

Oh well...now I have a new engine and 3 years of warranty on a bad ass car.

[Cheapspeed]

160k on an almost 10 year old car with a larger turbo. I've done the majority of the work myself.

Maybe your problem isn't that you bought a salvage. It's that you pay other people to work on it.

Maybe you should sell it and buy a car that's cheaper to pay others to work on.

[.Slug]

Salvage or not, what the OP says regarding bad engineering, I completely agree with. Since I've had my 2013 Speed around 9 months now its had over $2,500 of certified used car warranty work done. AND to top it off, its going back to the dealer today for a new issue regarding voltage drop/power loss which the dealer says there is a TSB for (I'll be posting a new thread to track it).

I honestly hate this car sometimes. The transmission has always felt like shit and everyone tells me its normal. But, I love it other times, like when I hit boost . Its a love hate relationship.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by .Slug Salvage or not, what the OP says regarding bad engineering, I completely agree with. Since I've had my 2013 Speed around 9 months now its had over $2,500 of certified used car warranty work done. AND to top it off, its going back to the dealer today for a new issue regarding voltage drop/power loss which the dealer says there is a TSB for (I'll be posting a new thread to track it). I honestly hate this car sometimes. The transmission has always felt like shit and everyone tells me its normal. But, I love it other times, like when I hit boost . Its a love hate relationship.

[MS3Shadow]

Originally Posted by brucetopping I started this thread last year after I had just purchased the car and had a couple of back-to-back problems. huge ones: HID headlight housing was $1250 K04 died - installed Corksport turbo was about $2500 with supporting bits and labor. now less than 10k miles later my power steering pump has failed. dealer quoted over $1250 to install new pump. lol ( car has 27k on it.) I guess if the battery gets a little weak it can destroy the power steering pump according to the dealer (due to voltage drop). It's like these cars are made of fine china: easy to break and very expensive to repair. Jeez. I am feeling so burned right now. I know I know, everyone can simply call me out for purchasing a salvage title car. my own fault. and you're not wrong. but seriously who designs a single headlight that costs over a thousand dollars to repair? for vehicle that costs less than 30k to begin with?!? seems like the most inelegant solution imaginable from an engineering perspective. and seemingly a total microcosm for MS3 engineering. hopefully most of the engineers lost their jobs. grrrrr (sorry just had to rant)

bruh, i can get a 2013 MS3 tech headlight that has AFS for only $250-350 each. it's your fault that you went directly to dealer to pay their outrageous prices. and you didn't have to upgrade to the CS turbo w/labor. you could have easily have gotten a used/rebuilt K04 for less than $200 from the right sources.

Originally Posted by .Slug Salvage or not, what the OP says regarding bad engineering, I completely agree with. Since I've had my 2013 Speed around 9 months now its had over $2,500 of certified used car warranty work done. AND to top it off, its going back to the dealer today for a new issue regarding voltage drop/power loss which the dealer says there is a TSB for (I'll be posting a new thread to track it). I honestly hate this car sometimes. The transmission has always felt like shit and everyone tells me its normal. But, I love it other times, like when I hit boost . Its a love hate relationship.

what did you have to get done?

i have no issues with my 2013.

[texasboy21]

Ive had two 2012 MS3s, and combined have spent literally $0 on repairs in 4+ years of ownership.

My entire cost of ownership has been fluid changes, brakes, spark plugs, shocks/strusts and tires. And mods.

Yall are either buying the car used from someone who beat on it and neglected regular maintenance, or beat on it yourself to the point things failed.

EDIT: I remembered that I have done some preventative maintenance - I replaced the upper strut mounts while replacing the shocks.

[AwAfrican]

Originally Posted by texasboy21 Yall are either buying the car used from someone who beat on it and neglected regular maintenance, or beat on it yourself to the point things failed.

This

[.Slug]

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow what did you have to get done? i have no issues with my 2013.

Some suspension stuff failing, wheel bearings, strut mounts, also included in there are some dealer fixes for shitty brake work they did and had to re-do (not the engineering's cause obviously). No power train failures though.

My car has had 1 other owner who was in his 50s and never modded the car, clean title etc. I dunno... seems the car has had more problems than what any car owner would consider reasonable at 40K-50K miles.

I'd say there are probably many more owners without issues than those with issues like mine. But also of note, there are plenty of owners who drive this car and immediately think there are issues with the stock transmission and other things (like clanging on shifts/while letting off the gas which I think is part of the axle?). Issues with shift forks are common I think and just the overall notchyness/grindyness etc. all of which Mazda considers "normal."

But I'm pretty annoyed with mine, having to basically drop it off at the dealer once a month and I've been constantly surprised by what is considered "normal" with this car.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by .Slug I'd say there are probably many more owners without issues than those with issues like mine. But also of note, there are plenty of owners who drive this car and immediately think there are issues with the stock transmission and other things (like clanging on shifts/while letting off the gas which I think is part of the axle?).

This clanging is caused by the weak OEM RMM. It is a well known weak point on the platform. Of course, you know this since you've tried aftermarket RMM's and not approved of the NVH. There is some trade off. If you want to drive the car like racecar, you may have to compromise some comforts.

On that note, this platform and car are budget friendly, entry level enthusiast cars. Building this car to be bullet proof and luxury level comfortable would have meant this was a $60k car. Is the platform as designed and engineered perfect? Hell no. But we all bought Mazda, not McLaren.

[texasboy21]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 This clanging is caused by the weak OEM RMM. It is a well known weak point on the platform. Of course, you know this since you've tried aftermarket RMM's and not approved of the NVH. There is some trade off. If you want to drive the car like racecar, you may have to compromise some comforts. On that note, this platform and car are budget friendly, entry level enthusiast cars. Building this car to be bullet proof and luxury level comfortable would have meant this was a $60k car. Is the platform as designed and engineered perfect? Hell no. But we all bought Mazda, not McLaren.

Nailed it.

My 2003 A4 blows the 2012 MS3 away in terms of overall build quality and materials. Four automatic windows, more ergonomic placement of switches, things dont creak or bang when shifting or driving on bumpy roads, much less road noise, etc. The 'normal' issues on this platform are 'engineered-out" of higher end cars.

The MS3 is a cheap go-fast car, and to that extent it was designed and engineered perfectly.

[.Slug]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 This clanging is caused by the weak OEM RMM. It is a well known weak point on the platform. Of course, you know this since you've tried aftermarket RMM's and not approved of the NVH. There is some trade off. If you want to drive the car like racecar, you may have to compromise some comforts. On that note, this platform and car are budget friendly, entry level enthusiast cars. Building this car to be bullet proof and luxury level comfortable would have meant this was a $60k car. Is the platform as designed and engineered perfect? Hell no. But we all bought Mazda, not McLaren.

I'm currently using CS inserts in my RMM. I believe the clang/"cunk" (sounds like a large pringles can being popped open) I'm referring to is because of the play in the axle leading into the transmission housing not due to weak RMM (there is a old thread for it with a video I think of a guy moving it in and out and duplicating the sound, I spent five minutes trying to search for it again, too lazy to find it at this point).

But, totally agree with you, and I got what I paid for.

[Vansquish]

Both of you need to grow a set and do more of your own car work. If the OP had done as much, he'd know that there's absolutely zero reason to be spending $1250 on a single freaking headlight, that a turbo swap doesn't need to cost anywhere near $2500, even at a dealer, and that a power steering pump and new lines shouldn't cost anywhere near $1250 (I've had to do mine, and it cost about half that much).

It sounds like the dealer is a stealer and it's taking you for a ride.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Vansquish Both of you need to grow a set and do more of your own car work. If the OP had done as much, he'd know that there's absolutely zero reason to be spending $1250 on a single freaking headlight, that a turbo swap doesn't need to cost anywhere near $2500, even at a dealer, and that a power steering pump and new lines shouldn't cost anywhere near $1250 (I've had to do mine, and it cost about half that much). It sounds like the dealer is a stealer and it's taking you for a ride.

To be fair, a gen2 PS pump is around $500+ depending on where you get it. Still completely agree, just saying.

[Speedy955]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed 160k on an almost 10 year old car with a larger turbo. I've done the majority of the work myself. Maybe your problem isn't that you bought a salvage. It's that you pay other people to work on it. Maybe you should sell it and buy a car that's cheaper to pay others to work on.

semi unrelated but you give me hope I can make a BNR S3 car last over 150k

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by Speedy955 semi unrelated but you give me hope I can make a BNR S3 car last over 150k

I don't think you parsed that last post properly.

I don't think that he's had the LBT on his car for anything close to 160k.

[Design]

My ownership thread says it all. Despite being a Gen 1, all these cars have a love/hate relationship. The powertrain has a few expected issues. Most notably with the PCV/oil separator/deposits. I should have known the moment I noticed Mazda used the exact same system from the Base 3. Price paid for going with "newer" technology back then. Part of it is my fault for trusting Mazda's maintenance schedule (4-5K OCIs on Penzoil dino).

I think we are at a point where the industry is finally figuring out Direct Injection. And if I end up keeping this car, I'll go with a new factory longblock (3100) and pay someone reputable to do it. I'll stick with a high detergent synthetic and change it religiously, and do UOAs every 10-15K. And most importantly, I'll be more diligent in keeping the valves/runners clean every 60K. Outside of that, I think the issues in this thread are more one-offs and/or associated with the salvage.

To be fair, with the busy work and family schedule, many of us just don't have the time to do some of the larger jobs that are best left to those who do it regularly. And I just realized I need to renew membership lol.

[Gerbilo]

I hope I don't regret saying this, but, knock on wood, I've had zero issues with my '10, bought new in July of '10. Sorry, I had a speaker replaced under warranty about a year in. Sure I don't beat on it much, nor do I accrue many miles, but I sure don't have any reliability complaints, yet.

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 On that note, this platform and car are budget friendly, entry level enthusiast cars. Building this car to be bullet proof and luxury level comfortable would have meant this was a $60k car. Is the platform as designed and engineered perfect? Hell no. But we all bought Mazda, not McLaren.

I was thinking about it and looked this up.

According to a report done by Detroit Free Press, The average purchase prices of new cars has risen from $28,160 in 2009 to $29,217 in 2010, an increase of about 3.75%.

Not sure how accurate that is, but the $23k, or whatever the hell it was, sticker price in 2010 is a decent amount lower than the "average" price of a new car, so I'd expect some issues to be present on a cheaper car, especially that which the money is being spent on performance. Now I just hope my luck keeps up.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Gerbilo I hope I don't regret saying this, but, knock on wood, I've had zero issues with my '10, bought new in July of '10. Sorry, I had a speaker replaced under warranty about a year in. Sure I don't beat on it much, nor do I accrue many miles, but I sure don't have any reliability complaints, yet. I was thinking about it and looked this up. Not sure how accurate that is, but the $23k, or whatever the hell it was, sticker price in 2010 is a decent amount lower than the "average" price of a new car, so I'd expect some issues to be present on a cheaper car, especially that which the money is being spent on performance. Now I just hope my luck keeps up.

Speakers are/were covered under warranty?? Hmm...

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Vansquish I don't think you parsed that last post properly. I don't think that he's had the LBT on his car for anything close to 160k.

I've had the 3076 for about 35k. The slow spool is probably saving my block.

[sheston]

I really thought this thread was about how after having fun in this car, it is almost impossible not to spend more money on it making it more fun.

As far as engineering, I think they did a great job of making a cheap, mass produced car that would appeal to anyone so they could sell enough so we could buy them and make them better.

Other than work I've had to do on my car because I screwed up or wanted to, nothing. For all the stress I've added to the remaining components, its amazing. I am very impressed with how much power most of the components will handle. How many other cars can you double the power, run 10 or 11 sec quarters, with this little money?

Anything near it's performance level costs 50% more at least.

[Gerbilo]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 Speakers are/were covered under warranty?? Hmm...

Yeah, my driver's door speaker was clearly blown. I went in, told them that's what it was, not even sure if they checked it out or not. They had to order it in, but a few days later I stopped back in for them to install it and was all good to go, new speaker, no questions asked. I know it was within the first year because I was going back to the dealership for a free oil change.

[SnailSpeed3]

Bought my car in December '13, rolled it off the showroom floor with 1.3 miles on it. It has now had 45k of me not babying the thing and certainly beating on it more than your average driver. Other than time spent modding and regular maintenance (and an unfortunate run in with a semi truck) the car has given me no issues whatsoever...

Like so many have said, these cars were designed to be affordable and fun and that's exactly what they are.

[Hamatchi]

Originally Posted by texasboy21 Nailed it. My 2003 A4 blows the 2012 MS3 away in terms of overall build quality and materials. Four automatic windows, more ergonomic placement of switches, things dont creak or bang when shifting or driving on bumpy roads, much less road noise, etc. The 'normal' issues on this platform are 'engineered-out" of higher end cars. The MS3 is a cheap go-fast car, and to that extent it was designed and engineered perfectly.

Hmm, I'm pretty new to the forum and this platform.

But I have to comment on Audi engineering. My previous DD was a 2006 Audi A4 3.2 premium editon with full sport pack. I was the second owner and go it withs 20k on the clock. I drove it to 105k. IMHO it was totally overengineered and ridiculously expensive to maintain. I spent as much on maintaining this car as I did on the purchase price. Replaced so much stuff that I couldn't list it all, but the three items that stick to my mind were:

The bi-xenon self leveling headlights. Audi actually got nailed with a class action lawsuit because the bulbs and ballasts were total crap. Dealer wanted $700 to replace a single light bulb. The entire front end needed to be dropped to access the headlight. I did the work myself and it took me half a day to get it done. $250 for the bulb. Which was starting to fail again recently.

Also needed to have entire gas tank replaced. I could not fill the gas tank without repeatedly pulling the pump handle. It acted like the gas vent line was blocked. With A4's the vent device is INSIDE the gas tank and cannot be replaced. The whole gas tank had to be replaced. Don't even ask what that cost.
Then the vent device failed AGAIN.

Having to replace the VVT for both heads, because the actuator arm coupler were made of plastic and broke. 4k for that alone.

In the end I got heavily rear ended this pas summer. Total writeoff, but I was able to limp home while the two cars that I got pushed into were undriveable. The Audi saved my ass. And I will remember it fondly for that.

With the insurance payout I bought a 2010 MS3 in Aug with 30k on it. Total maintenance so far is $60 that I kicked down to my local Mazda specialist who gave it a perfect bill of health. Even the fluids were fresh. Didn't need a thing.

I smile everytime I fill up and don't need to stand there like a dork clicking the fuel pump handle.

[texasboy21]

Originally Posted by Hamatchi Hmm, I'm pretty new to the forum and this platform. But I have to comment on Audi engineering. My previous DD was a 2006 Audi A4 3.2 premium editon with full sport pack. I was the second owner and go it withs 20k on the clock. I drove it to 105k. IMHO it was totally overengineered and ridiculously expensive to maintain. I spent as much on maintaining this car as I did on the purchase price. Replaced so much stuff that I couldn't list it all, but the three items that stick to my mind were: The bi-xenon self leveling headlights. Audi actually got nailed with a class action lawsuit because the bulbs and ballasts were total crap. Dealer wanted $700 to replace a single light bulb. The entire front end needed to be dropped to access the headlight. I did the work myself and it took me half a day to get it done. $250 for the bulb. Which was starting to fail again recently. Also needed to have entire gas tank replaced. I could not fill the gas tank without repeatedly pulling the pump handle. It acted like the gas vent line was blocked. With A4's the vent device is INSIDE the gas tank and cannot be replaced. The whole gas tank had to be replaced. Don't even ask what that cost. Then the vent device failed AGAIN. Having to replace the VVT for both heads, because the actuator arm coupler were made of plastic and broke. 4k for that alone. In the end I got heavily rear ended this pas summer. Total writeoff, but I was able to limp home while the two cars that I got pushed into were undriveable. The Audi saved my ass. And I will remember it fondly for that. With the insurance payout I bought a 2010 MS3 in Aug with 30k on it. Total maintenance so far is $60 that I kicked down to my local Mazda specialist who gave it a perfect bill of health. Even the fluids were fresh. Didn't need a thing. I smile everytime I fill up and don't need to stand there like a dork clicking the fuel pump handle.

I completely agree on the cost of ownership. At this point literally everything, and I mean everything has been replaced. Over-engineered yea maybe but all the little touches are nice. On my platform there are a few know/expensive issues but once you're out those it's smooth sailing. It all comes down to preventative maintenance and staying in front of the issues.

Overall Audi are great cars and I'll own many more in the future. Quattro can't be beat.

The full up issue sounds like an EVAP purge valve issue. Common issue in the B6 platform.

[KiwiFlavor]

Conclusion of this thread:

OP needs to start working on his car

[Puman_chu]

Originally Posted by brucetopping hello, I purchased '13 MS3 this August with 17k on the odo. It was a salvage title that the body shop inspected and said was in good shape. so I took a chance. ugh. first week the HID headlamp had water in it - didn't notice when I was purchasing and of course seller didn't mention. my bad. hit the wallet for ~$1250 now I'm about fifteen hundred miles into the car after a couple months and it is smoking like crazy. dealer tells me the turbo seals are bad and the dealership can barely find a replacement stock turbo and it looks like $2400 just for the K04 turbo. Of course Corksport offers a better turbo for $1100. (guy at Corksport was really nice and helpful too btw) But then you need the upgraded fuel pump component for about $400. and then you also need Accessport tuning for another $600 - and then on top of that the tune itself is another couple hundred dollars. All this before labor costs. So probably ball park $3000 for me as I have almost zero time for working on cars these days. nor the tools. Anyway, I'm feeling defeated by my MS3. I don't want to throw good money after bad. Is this a rare story? are MS3 cars just poorly designed with unreliable expensive parts that will bankrupt any poor sap who owns one?!? I thought I was buying a sort of reliable performance car... what is the general idea of cost of ownership of these cars? Thanks -Bruce

This was by beef when I got my gen pu 6 years ago. I was like damn I gotta spend 1k just so i can do boltons. So I just did routine maintenance and paid the car off then started to mod it after.

[Helrich]

It's really expensive to own one of these cars. Between the front lip, mudflaps, shark fin antenna cover, stickers, blow off valve and eyelids, I'm like a grand in the hole.

Sorry, I've had a few beers and felt compelled to comment. Salvage titles are there for a reason, you gambled against the odds and lost.

[sheston]

How much hp do the eyelids add? I knew I was missing something

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by Helrich It's really expensive to own one of these cars. Between the front lip, mudflaps, shark fin antenna cover, stickers, blow off valve and eyelids, I'm like a grand in the hole. Sorry, I've had a few beers and felt compelled to comment. Salvage titles are there for a reason, you gambled against the odds and lost.

You forgot the camber arms and 16x11 wheels with 185 width tires.

[AwAfrican]

Originally Posted by MD1032 You forgot the camber arms and 16x11 wheels with 185 width tires.

Ahahaha