MS3 Vs. 2013 Mustang GT w/Track package handling

[BLK_MS3]

Originally Posted by karl-hungus Test drove a 13 base gt with brembos tonight with some retarded sales kid. I like the new front end and black gauges but the rear end is ghetto and the cloth seats suck. I showed him the ms3 so he could see it was clean and grab the vin and mileage. Told him it was stock besides the rx-8 wheels as it was dark and he didn't bother to raise the hood. Dealer has a few leftover 12 gt premiums with 3.73 rear end and hid/security package. Told him $29k out the door.

The '13 is a big step up on the '12 to me. Love the new front, and the new tails look cool. Best of all is the body color rocker panels. The black on the older ones looks cheap.

As for the seats, get the Recaros. Best $1500 you can spend. I want a 6/speed with track pack and recaros. I'd like leather, but have no desire for all the crap you have to get with it.

[karl-hungus]

i was looking at the base 13 w/ track pack and recaros but the premium 12s are so cheap right now. if i bought one, some of my part out proceeds would go towards either the ford racing or eibach suspension kit.

[Darth_Nuruodo]

Really, as long as you get a '12+ you're in good shape. They're the ones that got the upgraded motor and that's what really counts haha. Hell, '12 V6 > '11 GT to be honest.

[BLK_MS3]

Originally Posted by Darth_Nuruodo Really, as long as you get a '12+ you're in good shape. They're the ones that got the upgraded motor and that's what really counts haha. Hell, '12 V6 > '11 GT to be honest.

Um, no the '11 got the 5.0. The '10 was the old 4.6...

[Darth_Nuruodo]

Originally Posted by BLK MS3 Um, no the '11 got the 5.0. The '10 was the old 4.6...

Ooops, my bad, I had that off by a year.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by BLK MS3 The '13 is a big step up on the '12 to me. Love the new front, and the new tails look cool. Best of all is the body color rocker panels. The black on the older ones looks cheap. As for the seats, get the Recaros. Best $1500 you can spend. I want a 6/speed with track pack and recaros. I'd like leather, but have no desire for all the crap you have to get with it.

the new functional heat extractor hood is my new favorite addition, thats a wicked looking hood.

[fredricktsang]

Originally Posted by karl-hungus Test drove a 13 base gt with brembos tonight with some retarded sales kid. I like the new front end and black gauges but the rear end is ghetto and the cloth seats suck. I showed him the ms3 so he could see it was clean and grab the vin and mileage. Told him it was stock besides the rx-8 wheels as it was dark and he didn't bother to raise the hood. Dealer has a few leftover 12 gt premiums with 3.73 rear end and hid/security package. Told him $29k out the door.

How's the brake pedal feel with the brembos? I drove a normal GT before and wasn't a huge fan of the brake feel. But that 5.0 is sweeeettt!!!

[karl-hungus]

dealer offered me auction value ($10k) for my clean 37k mile ms3. fucking rapists.

does anyone know anyone at rousch? supposedly rousch sold 5 or 6 identical (except for color) leftover 12s to my dealer and i'm trying to figure out what my dealer paid for them. the things have been sitting on their lot for 3 months.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by karl-hungus dealer offered me auction value ($10k) for my clean 37k mile ms3. fucking rapists. does anyone know anyone at rousch? supposedly rousch sold 5 or 6 identical (except for color) leftover 12s to my dealer and i'm trying to figure out what my dealer paid for them. the things have been sitting on their lot for 3 months.

New the stage 3 roush were like $45k weren't they? Granted its gonna be hard to talk them down much because its still a sweet car but you may be able to pull the "its last years model." I've always held the assumption that if you can go in and you know more about the car than the sales guy (not hard to do) and you own the conversation, they're pretty much at your disposal because you're making it obvious they have no idea what they're talking about.

[karl-hungus]

these were leftover roush's that roush didn't upgrade since the 13s were right around the corner. roush sold them to one dealer and i bet the dealer got a good deal.

screw the trade in. got a blank check from nfcu (60 months @ 1.79%).

[CaptObvious75]

ms3 > new mustang simply because I think mustangs are for old people (dunno the OP's age)

I would rock the Boss model tho... hell of a machine that thing is!

[fortressofcomfort]

I agree the Boss, even without the Laguna Seca package, is the one I'd get. F the Shelby, give me that high revving 5.0 with what 444hp? I think Motor Trend got 0-60 in 3.9 seconds out of it. WHOA (nellie).

[Darth_Nuruodo]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort I agree the Boss, even without the Laguna Seca package, is the one I'd get. F the Shelby, give me that high revving 5.0 with what 444hp? I think Motor Trend got 0-60 in 3.9 seconds out of it. WHOA (nellie).

I love the Laguna Seca package too, so awesome. Nothing says RACECAR like having no back seats from the factory.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort I agree the Boss, even without the Laguna Seca package, is the one I'd get. F the Shelby, give me that high revving 5.0 with what 444hp? I think Motor Trend got 0-60 in 3.9 seconds out of it. WHOA (nellie).

and a 12.3 1/4 bone stock, hard to say no to that.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by Voltwings and a 12.3 1/4 bone stock, hard to say no to that.

Too many cars are simply too heavy today. Have you seen the curb weights of cars like the newer Camaros and Challengers? Sheesh. The Mustang is lighter than either of them by several hundred pounds or more. Ford is doing a great job with their cars esp over the last 5 years or so. And to think they didn't even need bailout money. Good for them. GM needed how much 30 billion taxpayer dollars and we get a fucking 4,000lb Transformer for a Camaro. I would've done what Bush said and fuck the domestic auto industry let it collapse. Ford would then be able to compete with Toyota and VW for market share. Really. But we have Osama I mean Obama sigh. Remember kids, in November, vote for ABO (anybody but Obama). Fuck it write in a Democrat if you must stick with your crappy party line.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Too many cars are simply too heavy today. Have you seen the curb weights of cars like the newer Camaros and Challengers? Sheesh. The Mustang is lighter than either of them by several hundred pounds or more. Ford is doing a great job with their cars esp over the last 5 years or so. And to think they didn't even need bailout money. Good for them. GM needed how much 30 billion taxpayer dollars and we get a fucking 4,000lb Transformer for a Camaro. I would've done what Bush said and fuck the domestic auto industry let it collapse. Ford would then be able to compete with Toyota and VW for market share. Really. But we have Osama I mean Obama sigh. Remember kids, in November, vote for ABO (anybody but Obama). Fuck it write in a Democrat if you must stick with your crappy party line.

Hah Ford actually survived by selling its 33% share of Mazda back to Mazda, but thats part of business, when you're having a hard time you bite the bullet. So it is going to be interesting to see what the next few years of this platform hold since its not solely under Mazda's control

[analbumcover]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort And to think they didn't even need bailout money. Good for them. GM needed how much 30 billion taxpayer dollars and we get a fucking 4,000lb Transformer for a Camaro. I would've done what Bush said and fuck the domestic auto industry let it collapse. Ford would then be able to compete with Toyota and VW for market share. Really. But we have Osama I mean Obama sigh. Remember kids, in November, vote for ABO (anybody but Obama). Fuck it write in a Democrat if you must stick with your crappy party line.

Spoken like an idiot. The big three support nearly 3 million jobs in this country, many more millions across the world. Thats 3 million people out of work, on unemployment and welfare and not paying taxes for YOUR city, YOUR police department, YOUR schools.

Getting rid of GM and Chrysler would add many more imports to America and reduce our GDP, we would send even more money overseas. (TLDR, fewer american cars, fewer american jobs, fewer jobs for YOUR kids)

What you, and much of the country, fail to realize is how powerless people like the president are to these issues. If you've got a problem with the auto industry get rid of the UAW. Problems solved. Its genuinely impressive that we blame the president for everything, not just Obama but every president. "WAAAA, gas is expensive, its the presidents fault!", "WAAA, taxes are high, its the presidents fault", "WAAA, high unemployment, its the presidents fault."

People like YOU cause high gas prices, unemployment and taxes. People like YOU create an aggressive, hostile business environment where expansion and growth isn't promoted because of a lack of safeguards.

This country still runs a relatively free market, if the president tried to fix your high gas prices someone (YOU) would bitch about, "this isnt a free market, blah blah."

So, please, rather than regurgitating the shit your hear on Rush Limbaugh, do some research, read a book and maybe you'll realize where the power is held and why the decisions this country makes are made.

Lastly, voting with the, "ABO" method is the most idiotic thing I've read. Goes to show your level of intelligence and ignorance. Lets not use facts and knowledge but shit-for-reasoning. Herp derp, anyone but obama. Trump for president.

/end rant.

[Mr.Bison]

At the end of the day, they are very different cars with very different price points. I think the MS3 is about as good as you can get with FWD

But the Mustang is a great car too, if you want RWD and can afford it

[Mchart]

I think it is a great car for the money. Just not the type of car i'm interested in anymore TBH. For a modern/new car for performance i'd take something like the TTRS / 1 Series M. If I wanted a muscle car i'd opt classic.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by analbumcover Spoken like an idiot. The big three support nearly 3 million jobs in this country, many more millions across the world. Thats 3 million people out of work, on unemployment and welfare and not paying taxes for YOUR city, YOUR police department, YOUR schools. Getting rid of GM and Chrysler would add many more imports to America and reduce our GDP, we would send even more money overseas. (TLDR, fewer american cars, fewer american jobs, fewer jobs for YOUR kids) What you, and much of the country, fail to realize is how powerless people like the president are to these issues. If you've got a problem with the auto industry get rid of the UAW. Problems solved. Its genuinely impressive that we blame the president for everything, not just Obama but every president. "WAAAA, gas is expensive, its the presidents fault!", "WAAA, taxes are high, its the presidents fault", "WAAA, high unemployment, its the presidents fault." People like YOU cause high gas prices, unemployment and taxes. People like YOU create an aggressive, hostile business environment where expansion and growth isn't promoted because of a lack of safeguards. This country still runs a relatively free market, if the president tried to fix your high gas prices someone (YOU) would bitch about, "this isnt a free market, blah blah." So, please, rather than regurgitating the shit your hear on Rush Limbaugh, do some research, read a book and maybe you'll realize where the power is held and why the decisions this country makes are made. Lastly, voting with the, "ABO" method is the most idiotic thing I've read. Goes to show your level of intelligence and ignorance. Lets not use facts and knowledge but shit-for-reasoning. Herp derp, anyone but obama. Trump for president. /end rant.

Sheesh wasn't trying to start anything here.

Doesn't Ford also employ UAW workers? They don't seem to have any issue with turning out globally competitive products.

Ever heard of an executive order? Yeah that thing Obama has been utterly abusing over the last year or so? On quite a few issues, yes it is his fault.

I make $115,500 a year. I spend nearly $30,000 of that to support the federal government alone. Another $10k or whatever goes to the state of MD. Tell me, how much did you help out your government (the people) last year? Did you even pay taxes last year (subtracting out your refund)? I would also bet, over the last 5 years, that I helped out more senior citizens get their Medicare coverage, more retirees get their Social Security checks, and more Marylanders get their food stamps and WIC checks and send their kids to school, than you will do in your lifetime. I know your type, its all logic this, logic that, read this, read that, I'm so fucking smart, but when the rubber hits the road you got nuttin and don't do nuttin so stfu lol

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by Voltwings Hah Ford actually survived by selling its 33% share of Mazda back to Mazda, but thats part of business, when you're having a hard time you bite the bullet. So it is going to be interesting to see what the next few years of this platform hold since its not solely under Mazda's control

Right, smart people seeing the future and acting, doing what they had to do. And they get rewarded. Amazing.

As far as I know, Mazda (excepting the L3-VDT) has completely stopped producing the L-series engine as of this year and is planning on deprecating it. Mazda next year will go full bore SKYACTIV or whatever which is not L-series based at all. Ford is not stopping with the L-series engine. They have already extended it with a DI/turbo setup you may more commonly know as EcoBoost. There is the 2.0 Ecoboost in the Explorer, 2.5L in the Fusion and Fusion hybrid, and also a brand new one they are working on, a 2.3L of their OWN design but with DI/turbo etc slated to produce 320hp. This bad boy is slated to power some kind of Focus RS and may also make it into the Mustang lineup as both an option to the base V6 and also a throwback to the mid-80s Mustang SVT turbo car.

So I think our platform is actually in very good hands (yes UAW and all) and if that Focus RS and esp Mustang 2.3T actually makes it to production we might even finally get some aftermarket cams, heads, and all that good stuff to come to our little 2.3

My $0.02

[sd_e30er]

You made $115k and drive an ms3?

[Mchart]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Right, smart people seeing the future and acting, doing what they had to do. And they get rewarded. Amazing. As far as I know, Mazda (excepting the L3-VDT) has completely stopped producing the L-series engine as of this year and is planning on deprecating it. Mazda next year will go full bore SKYACTIV or whatever which is not L-series based at all. Ford is not stopping with the L-series engine. They have already extended it with a DI/turbo setup you may more commonly know as EcoBoost. There is the 2.0 Ecoboost in the Explorer, 2.5L in the Fusion and Fusion hybrid, and also a brand new one they are working on, a 2.3L of their OWN design but with DI/turbo etc slated to produce 320hp. This bad boy is slated to power some kind of Focus RS and may also make it into the Mustang lineup as both an option to the base V6 and also a throwback to the mid-80s Mustang SVT turbo car. So I think our platform is actually in very good hands (yes UAW and all) and if that Focus RS and esp Mustang 2.3T actually makes it to production we might even finally get some aftermarket cams, heads, and all that good stuff to come to our little 2.3 My $0.02

The RS uses the Volvo I5 which was originally designed by Porsche.

[MS3MYK]

Originally Posted by Mchart The RS uses the Volvo I5 which was originally designed by Porsche.

He meant future RS, not the current one.

Also it was SVO mustang in 84-86, not SVT

Sent from my 3VO bitches.

[MammaFreed3]

Originally Posted by Mchart I think it is a great car for the money. Just not the type of car i'm interested in anymore TBH. For a modern/new car for performance i'd take something like the TTRS / 1 Series M. If I wanted a muscle car i'd opt classic.

I'm right with ya' on that one. Give me a new S4 or give me something old and loud.

[hazynighthawk]

Gt dude. If i didnt have to worry about the winters here in buffalo I'd buy one instead of the STi/ WRX im looking at.

[CaptObvious75]

Originally Posted by sd_e30er You made $115k and drive an ms3?

That should be a compliment to us more than anything that someone who can afford an M3 or equivalent decided the MS3 is awesome enough to take over higher priced sports cars

[jakk]

Well, I got a chance to test drive a GT auto (it was the only car the dealer had on the lot). I know the autos have 3.15 gearing as opposed to the 3.73 gearing that my car would have. There was no doubt that the car was faster then the speed3-I looked down and I was doing 70 with no effort. However, the car just did not "feel" as fast. With the speed3, there was a much bigger feeling of being pushed back in the seat and going faster than you really were. The Mustang was faster, but it did it with much less fanfare/excitement than the speed3 (IMO, I'm certainly no expert). I'm wondering if a manual/3.73s will make the car feel more like I was expecting i.e. give me more of that "pushed-back-in-the-seat" feeling. Hopefully I can find a dealer to test drive that configuration. Otherwise, i really would have to reconsider the Mustang as, at the end of the day, I'd rather drive something that feels more exciting and faster even if it is not. The other possibility is that I did not let the engine rev high enough as I have heard that most of the torque in the Coyote is made up higher, but 3.73s supposedly help that.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by jakk Well, I got a chance to test drive a GT auto (it was the only car the dealer had on the lot). I know the autos have 3.15 gearing as opposed to the 3.73 gearing that my car would have. There was no doubt that the car was faster then the speed3-I looked down and I was doing 70 with no effort. However, the car just did not "feel" as fast. With the speed3, there was a much bigger feeling of being pushed back in the seat and going faster than you really were. The Mustang was faster, but it did it with much less fanfare/excitement than the speed3 (IMO, I'm certainly no expert). I'm wondering if a manual/3.73s will make the car feel more like I was expecting i.e. give me more of that "pushed-back-in-the-seat" feeling. Hopefully I can find a dealer to test drive that configuration. Otherwise, i really would have to reconsider the Mustang as, at the end of the day, I'd rather drive something that feels more exciting and faster even if it is not. The other possibility is that I did not let the engine rev high enough as I have heard that most of the torque in the Coyote is made up higher, but 3.73s supposedly help that.

The thing with the mustang is its power is more linear, the longer you stay on the pedal the more power it will continue to make and the faster it will inevitably feel, that bitch pulls all the way to redline, where as our cars have fat mid range so the initial hit feels faster but falls flat on its face up top. your theory is correct, not to sound like a ricer civic but rev the bitch out and then see whats up

[bieberhole69]

Fuck it get the GT and do wheelies!!

[Mchart]

Originally Posted by jakk Well, I got a chance to test drive a GT auto (it was the only car the dealer had on the lot). I know the autos have 3.15 gearing as opposed to the 3.73 gearing that my car would have. There was no doubt that the car was faster then the speed3-I looked down and I was doing 70 with no effort. However, the car just did not "feel" as fast. With the speed3, there was a much bigger feeling of being pushed back in the seat and going faster than you really were. The Mustang was faster, but it did it with much less fanfare/excitement than the speed3 (IMO, I'm certainly no expert). I'm wondering if a manual/3.73s will make the car feel more like I was expecting i.e. give me more of that "pushed-back-in-the-seat" feeling. Hopefully I can find a dealer to test drive that configuration. Otherwise, i really would have to reconsider the Mustang as, at the end of the day, I'd rather drive something that feels more exciting and faster even if it is not. The other possibility is that I did not let the engine rev high enough as I have heard that most of the torque in the Coyote is made up higher, but 3.73s supposedly help that.

It's NA. Any NA engine never really feels all that 'fast' due to the linear power development.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by Mchart It's NA. Any NA engine never really feels all that 'fast' due to the linear power development.

For the most part this is true. However given proper cams, heads, exhaust scavenging, etc an NA motor can surely be tuned/constructed to have a "pop" or "coming up on the cam" feel. Sure nothing beats the whack of 18psi to the backside I agree. Just don't bring this response up to a Honda Vtec guy cuz they'll argue that their cars push you back in the seat bwhahahah.

[fortressofcomfort]

Originally Posted by CaptObvious75 That should be a compliment to us more than anything that someone who can afford an M3 or equivalent decided the MS3 is awesome enough to take over higher priced sports cars

Thank you. I am truly broke though.... going through a divorce, having to sell a house that's upside-down, and raising a 2 and 4 year old all at the same time is expensive. Shit I am court ordered to send my wife an alimony check for $2,000 every month for the next 3 years and on top of that have to pay ~$1400 for child support. (I get my kids every weekend, she has them during the week and of course doesn't work). More than 1/2 my paycheck is gone before I even see it and the gov't takes another 35% or so. You do the math, it sucks. But I have no issues spending money on my kids, they are my life.

You are right though, a few years back I could've afforded something like you said M3 (or S4/S6 as I'm a VAG guy after a Mazda guy) but I've had my eyes on an the MS3 since it came out years ago. Yes, I once had my eyes on a GenJuan.

[analbumcover]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort Sheesh wasn't trying to start anything here. Doesn't Ford also employ UAW workers? They don't seem to have any issue with turning out globally competitive products. Ever heard of an executive order? Yeah that thing Obama has been utterly abusing over the last year or so? On quite a few issues, yes it is his fault. I make $115,500 a year. I spend nearly $30,000 of that to support the federal government alone. Another $10k or whatever goes to the state of MD. Tell me, how much did you help out your government (the people) last year? Did you even pay taxes last year (subtracting out your refund)? I would also bet, over the last 5 years, that I helped out more senior citizens get their Medicare coverage, more retirees get their Social Security checks, and more Marylanders get their food stamps and WIC checks and send their kids to school, than you will do in your lifetime. I know your type, its all logic this, logic that, read this, read that, I'm so fucking smart, but when the rubber hits the road you got nuttin and don't do nuttin so stfu lol

Welcome to the club. My tax rate is nearly 30%, after I deduct everything, but I'm not complaining. I understand countries need taxes to function and that 30% is a small price for the services I use day-to-day and for the betterment of society.

Obama signs EO's like every other president, where's the abuse? The only "controversial" one I can remember is the don't ask don't tell repeal.

Ford does use UAW labor. They could be even more competitive if they didn't. Most of Fords products you see today are not products of America. They are european products modified for the American market. What they're doing isn't "innovative" but its gotten to the point where the competition was so much better they had to import the designs and build these more expensive vehicles here. New focus is the european focus thats been around for a while. New Escape is the ford Kuga. The new fusion is a ford Mondeo.

This doesn't apply to Ford only. GM is guilty of this too. New impala is just a revision of the older Opel Episilon II platform. Chrysler, same deal. 300 is an old Merc E-class. new Jeep Grand Cherokee/Durango is the new Merc ML-Class, Dodge Dart is an Alfa Romeo.

My point is that the companies are no different. If the UAW left, you'd see more competitive wages and better products. The reason Chrysler was able to turn around so quickly (they make some damn good stuff now) was because the UAW thugs knew they had to compromise or everyone would lose their jobs. Unions in this country are like no where else in the world. In Germany, unions work WITH companies to make the best products and ensure the companies stay profitable. Its a symbiotic relationship. Over here, its a competition.

Side note: My sympathies for your situation. You should have gotten the kids and she should have to pay you child support. Thats another thing broken in this country (court system when it comes to custody).

[dbrier]

I haven't seen a discussion on the reliability of the two cars.
I know Ford has been making much better cars lately, but if you were to own the Mustang GT for 8+ years, would you still pick it over the MS3?

[Atlanta]

Originally Posted by fortressofcomfort More than 1/2 my paycheck is gone before I even see it and the gov't takes another 35% or so.

Completely off topic.... But is your check taxed, and then sent to the ex or is it pretax and she has to pay the tax on it?



Surprisingly sent from Tapatalk on Android before it "force closed" and crashed.

[jakk]

Originally Posted by dbrier I haven't seen a discussion on the reliability of the two cars. I know Ford has been making much better cars lately, but if you were to own the Mustang GT for 8+ years, would you still pick it over the MS3?

This has been another one of my concerns with the Mustang. However, I cannot see myself owning either car for more than 4-5 years tops given how much mileage I will rack up (33k/year).

I know there are some members here who have gone from the speed3 to the 5.0, and I would like to hear any comments they have regarding how fast the two "feel" with 3.73 gears. I'm emailing dealers all around me but am having trouble finding any that have a GT in stock with 3.73 that I could test drive.

[bieberhole69]

33k a year!? You should deff get the speed3 for the gas mileage


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[jakk]

Yeah, I have a 100 mile commute round trip every day. The vehicle I am currently driving gets 19 mpg, so the Mustang would still be an improvement as it seems like it gets 23-24 mpg highway from the forums I have been on. Also, it doesn't need premium. Like I have mentioned before, the practicality of two vs five doors and gas mileage really don't matter to me so much. The main issue at this point is driving feel, with Winter driving being the other issue (which I know the answer to (AWD>FWD>RWD) and would not be enough to keep me from getting the Mustang).

[bieberhole69]

Well I don't know road conditions where you're at but I know where I'm at rain/snow really beat up the road and independent suspension would be better for that. I know the live axle of the stang was already brought up but since driving feel and all is the topic it's something to think about.


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